Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
Many people misunderstand terms like "they," "the deep state," or "the elites," often imagining them as referring to a clandestine cabal of malevolent actors orchestrating global events with unified intent. However, the reality is more nuanced. These labels typically refer to a network of influential individuals whose interests happen to align due to shared socio-economic status, institutional positions, or ideological commitments. As a result, they often act in ways that appear coordinated, even in the absence of explicit planning or direct communication. This phenomenon can resemble a conspiracy in its effects, but it arises organically from overlapping incentives and worldviews rather than from a centralized or formally organized effort.

Importantly, many of the individuals whose actions contribute to these perceived “conspiracies”—for lack of a better term—are not hidden or unknown figures. On the contrary, they are often prominent public figures: politicians, business leaders, media executives, and policy influencers whose names and roles are well known. What gives rise to the perception of covert coordination is not their obscurity, but the systemic nature of their actions and the shared frameworks within which they operate.

When people like me or Dil refer to the "deep state" or "they" that is what we're actually talking about.
That may be what YOU are talking about. I wouldn't go putting words in anybody else's mouth, though.

I've said roughly the same, except that I go further. Even in that definition, there is a group. They may not be working in concert, but there is still a group with at least roughly defined membership. I don't believe that at all. I think the group is FAR larger, if you can even call it a group at that part. I would say that it encompasses more than everybody who works for the government. It encompasses a fair portion of society outside of government, as well. Everybody tugs in whichever direction they choose with whatever force they care to, and are capable of, exert...ing (darn, that sentence has two different endings, depending on how you get there).

After all, to a true believer in the flat Earth idea, everybody who believes the Earth is round is part of the deep state that is acting against them. Some are acting strongly, such as by putting things into orbit, manufacturing globes (if those still exist), or teaching children. Some are acting weakly, such as by just rolling their eyes or wandering away. All are pulling in the wrong direction, as far as the flat-Earther is concerned. They aren't doing nothing, they are actively pulling in the wrong direction.

You could make the same case for less extreme positions. You could make the same case for EVERY widespread belief system, commonly held or not (smaller things, like what you want on your pizza, have a different calculus to them). However, I would say that when Trump or his supporters talk about the deep state, they are not talking about, "a mass of people that may well make up the majority of the country on any given issue." They're almost always talking about the deep state because it frames the battle in a way that is worth fighting. It's not, "you're a minority trying to overthrow the will of the majority", which could be a valid objective, but instead it's "you're the spear tip of a majority trying to overthrow a relatively small minority out to thwart your wishes."