Israel?

[TysonLPrice]

Yeah, if people think he can focus or remain coherent, then they HAVE forgotten, and he hasn't gotten better at that. You seem to think he'll be focused on this. He won't. He just won't care, so long as it requires more effort than a tweet. But that isn't any different from what Biden has accomplished over there. Israel hasn't been constrained in any way and to any extent, except so far as what they have the manpower to do. They're still a tiny country trying to take action in two different directions at once, plus a series of even further flung air campaigns. They couldn't do even that without US assistance...but they HAVE been doing that, which means they have been getting US assistance. Nothing will be significantly worse between having an ineffectual fretter in the white house and a chaotic clown with no attention span in there. Neither one will do anything effective.

I couldn't disagree more. I think Israel did show more restraint because Biden was in office. And I think Netanyahu is chomping at the bit for Trump to get in and do whatever he wants. I think there is a HUGE difference between "ineffectual fretter", which is your opinion, and the flawed human being that is Trump. Comparing Biden and his administration to Trump and the upcoming clown show proves that people have forgotten who Trump is and what he does.

All your points seem to say it can't get worse, I think you have forgotten who Trump is and what he will do. He is transactional and impulsive. That will make things worse in itself.

Just an example: For days he wanted a "big beautiful" reconciliation bill. Now two bills is OK, throwing the Republicans into a tizzy. It will be like that, across the board, every day. How can anyone forget that

At this moment he is addressing the nation...he is all over the place with lie after lie. He is still going on about the election being stolen. Ahhh, the memories are coming back.

Edit: His last statement was if the Gaza hostage crisis is not solved by the time it takes office "All hell will break out". I guess that isn't that big a change in US diplomacy...

[wes4dbt]

Couple that with powerful lobbying

Perhaps this is what I'm underestimating. Overall Jews are a small percentage of the population, @ 2.4%. The area where I live it's probably much smaller than that.

[wes4dbt]

They can't very well, because they are stretched too thin from a manpower perspective and know it.

They're trying to build up the man power.

Israel’s military drafts 338 members of the ultra-Orthodox community
The Times of Israel, citing the Israeli military, said some 338 members of the country’s ultra-Orthodox Jewish community have been drafted in the past week, with 211 of them assigned to combat roles.

The remaining men have been assigned to combat support units.

Israel’s ultra-Orthodox Jews, commonly referred to as Haredim (Haredi in the singular), are the country’s most religious demographic and typically devote their lives to prayer and worship.

A longstanding political arrangement previously exempted the community from compulsory military service. But last year, Israel’s Supreme Court ruled unanimously that the military will begin conscripting ultra-Orthodox men into the army – a controversial ruling that has been met with protests.

The Israeli military, depleted by its ongoing wars in Gaza and Lebanon, has sent 10,000 summons to Haredi men since July.

Be interesting to see how this works out.

[Shaggy Hiker]

They do have a pretty large clout.

What would be worse? In what way have they been restrained. They've destroyed Gaza, are pushing further into the Golan Heights, and are openly talking about forcibly resettling the population of Gaza to a country that vehemently doesn't want them. They can't physically accomplish that, yet, even if nobody stood in their way. So it doesn't really matter that nobody does appear to be standing in their way. As far as I can tell, the only significant pushback is coming from within Israel itself. So what would they do that would be worse? Slave labor? Make them watch Cats?

[TysonLPrice]

They do have a pretty large clout.

What would be worse? In what way have they been restrained. They've destroyed Gaza, are pushing further into the Golan Heights, and are openly talking about forcibly resettling the population of Gaza to a country that vehemently doesn't want them. They can't physically accomplish that, yet, even if nobody stood in their way. So it doesn't really matter that nobody does appear to be standing in their way. As far as I can tell, the only significant pushback is coming from within Israel itself. So what would they do that would be worse? Slave labor? Make them watch Cats?

You really have forgotten

What is worse? Keep doing the same day after day as more and more people suffer and die. Winter is coming up, will that make it worse? The last of the hospitals was just destroyed, did that make it worse? Israel tightened the restrictions on aid again recently, did that make it worse? I could go on, and you will not hear a peep from the Trump administration. He will pull the plug on all stops. It will be worse. It sounds like your mind is firmly made up though.

He just said he wants to rename the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. How could someone like that not make things worse? In twelve days Netanyahu gets carte blanche. I'd say thing are getting worse.

[Shaggy Hiker]

You really have forgotten

No, I haven't.

What is worse? Keep doing the same day after day as more and more people suffer and die. Winter is coming up, will that make it worse? The last of the hospitals was just destroyed, did that make it worse? Israel tightened the restrictions on aid again recently, did that make it worse?

Yeah, that is ALL worse, and it happened under Biden, and I haven't heard anything out of him. Trump certainly won't lift a finger to make it better, but Biden has totally dropped the ball on this one when he had the chance. Trump isn't going to do any better, because Trump isn't going to do anything, but that's the same thing that Biden has accomplished, as well.

If you think that Biden has done something, then that's what we disagree on. Both of us believe that Trump will do nothing. There's no disagreement there. If we disagree it would be on whether or not Biden has accomplished anything with regards to Israel. He should have stopped them and did not. Trump won't, but that doesn't change the status quo, because Biden didn't.

He will pull the plug on all stops.

That's an interesting way to mix a metaphor.

It will be worse.

In what way? You already pointed out that they destroyed the last hospital, which happened under Biden. Is Trump going to go over and kick them all in the nuts? How do you get worse than what it already is?

I'm not suggesting that Trump will make it better. I'm saying that they have already reached bedrock, they can't go lower, and Trump won't help them try.

In twelve days Netanyahu gets carte blanche.

He's already had it. The only thing that has tied his hands is his own people, and they haven't been very effective about it. They're openly discussing committing what is defined as a crime against humanity, and the only notable resistance has been internal.

[TysonLPrice]

If you think that Biden has done something, then that's what we disagree on.

I agree with what we disagree on. Biden has been doing things since day one. Working with other neighboring nations both enemy and friendly to mitigate damage and fatalities. That it was not wholly successful I don't think was his fault. Trump is going to give Netanyahu carte blanche, I disagree he already had it. The violence and destruction was incremental and protested every step of the way. I think Trump will let him take the gloves off completely. Where we also disagree is it will be much worse when Trump does that. Trump already told him "Do what you have to do". I don't believe Biden ever said that and I believe Netanyahu will take advantage of Trump's "blessing". Making things much worse...and I mean regionally, not just for the Palestinians.

[wes4dbt]

Biden has made some verbal attempts to restrain Israel but they have been very toothless. Israel ignores the calls for restraint and the US just continues to send more aid and weapons to Israel. Once Netanyahu saw the US was willing to ignore the war crimes and continue to support Israel there has been no restraint by Israel.

The only thing that has tied his hands is his own people, and they haven't been very effective about it.

There has been a some protests by activists but it appears the vast majority of Israeli's are OK with the government/military actions.

[TysonLPrice]

Biden has made some verbal attempts to restrain Israel but they have been very toothless. Israel ignores the calls for restraint and the US just continues to send more aid and weapons to Israel. Once Netanyahu saw the US was willing to ignore the war crimes and continue to support Israel there has been no restraint by Israel.



There has been a some protests by activists but it appears the vast majority of Israeli's are OK with the government/military actions.

There was constant communication from day one. Nobody here knows what was said, agreed to, and later broken. I agree the end result is a catastrophic disaster. I disagree completely it is because Biden was doing little to nothing. But what I really meant when I posted, and got lost because of my rabbit trails, is Trump will make it much worse. I believe, without going back, SH said it couldn't get any worse, and I disagreed. I stand by that when I disagree it cannot get any worse. Trump will prove me right

[TysonLPrice]

Trump is off to a good start for making things worse, let the chaos begn.

His pick for secretary of state, the Florida senator Marco Rubio, opposes a Gaza ceasefire and has called for Israel to “destroy every element” of Hamas. His choice for UN ambassador, the New York representative Elise Stefanik, has dismissed the United Nations as a “cesspool of antisemitism” for its criticism of civilian deaths in Gaza.

Trump’s selection for ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, has rejected the common diplomatic terminology regarding occupied Palestinian territories. “There’s no such thing as a West Bank,” Huckabee said during a 2017 visit to Israel. Huckabee, an evangelical Christian, had previously said “there’s no such thing as a Palestinian”.

Trump’s pick for defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, is also an evangelical Christian whose tattoos of crusader-associated symbols have raised eyebrows in diplomatic circles.

Trump himself has said there will be “hell to pay” if Hamas does not release its hostages before he takes office.

[sapator]

It's one thing blindly and hatefully wishing for Trump to extent chaos with Israel and another of what might happen.
P.E. Trump shares inflammatory video with crude reference to Netanyahu
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ence-netanyahu

So before we dive to absolute Trumopage we might look around and read the global changes. Or just hate Trump. As the well know American history X film says. What are we going to do today?
In reality no one knows what will happen until he starts acting.

[FunkyDexter]

no one knows what will happen until he starts acting.

That's a problem.

[TysonLPrice]

That's a problem.

And I hardly think it is "hatefully wishing" pointing out that a dangerous, narcissistic, transactional person is about to be sworn in as president. People seem to have forgotten who he is and how he behaved last time. That was the point of my post. For God's sake he tried to overthrow the government...

The report was just released:

If Donald Trump hadn’t won the presidential election in November, the Justice Department would have had ample evidence to convict him at trial of trying to obstruct the 2020 election results, special counsel Jack Smith said in a report released early Tuesday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...rt-jack-smith/

[sapator]

And if my granma had wheels he would be a skate. Politics don't work with if's. Or Case, or switch.

[sapator]

That's a problem.

No problem whatsoever.
Do you know what an elected politician will do before he starts his/her term?
Are you a wizard? Do you swallow swords??!!

[wes4dbt]

And if my granma had wheels he would be a skate. Politics don't work with if's. Or Case, or switch.

Everyone knows that, that's not the point.

The point is, his supporters are willing to ignore his previous behavior, even the fact he tried to illegally overthrow the presidential election.

[Shaggy Hiker]

And if my granma had wheels he would be a skate. Politics don't work with if's. Or Case, or switch.

Well...it sounds like case, switch, or if might be kind of appropriate for your granma. Them's usually female.

[Shaggy Hiker]

In reality no one knows what will happen until he starts acting.

I'd have to say that I agree with this, except for the timeline. In the case of Trump, nobody knows what will happen next even AFTER he starts acting.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Are you a wizard? Do you swallow swords??!!

Do those two go together in some way that I'm not aware of? I've seen sword swallowers, and they sure don't seem like wizards to me. Also, my answer to the first question is yes, obviously, while my answer to the second would be no. I get my iron the old fashioned way: By chasing down animals and eating them.

[sapator]

I guess it's a bummer that you might not be able to eat crickets and slugs now
So you are chasing animals huh? That does not cope well with the Woke agenda, you might get pommeled here by some activist. (That made me remember Activision, good games good games) . Thankfully the new government favors you.

A wizard and a sword swallower walk into a bar...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Does anybody eat slugs?

At first, I thought that was just a bit weird, but now that I think about it, we eat lots of related things, like snails, but does anybody eat slugs? I can't think of ever hearing about a dish involving slugs, and that's kind of strange, since it does seem like somebody eats everything.

[sapator]

If Woke buys says it's good you will eat it, or powder for a cake.
And since Woke buys are in power....Oh, snap!

[TysonLPrice]

Does anybody eat slugs?

At first, I thought that was just a bit weird, but now that I think about it, we eat lots of related things, like snails, but does anybody eat slugs? I can't think of ever hearing about a dish involving slugs, and that's kind of strange, since it does seem like somebody eats everything.

Maybe you can put them in punch. Maybe box them up and send them as a gift? I don't want to start a fight though and have to slug it out.

[TysonLPrice]

Do those two go together in some way that I'm not aware of? I've seen sword swallowers, and they sure don't seem like wizards to me. Also, my answer to the first question is yes, obviously, while my answer to the second would be no. I get my iron the old fashioned way: By chasing down animals and eating them.

You don't need to be either. Just remember who he is and acts like from the last time. And paid attention to what he has said he is going to do for the last few years.

[Shaggy Hiker]

If Woke buys says it's good you will eat it, or powder for a cake.

I was asking a serious question. Every culture probably eats something that other cultures thinks are strange. There isn't anything woke about that. I had a guy who worked for me who's view on food he wasn't used to was, "never tried it, never will." It's fine with me if you want to live like that. That attitude made him really good at what he was doing for me, even though I didn't really understand it.

I didn't realize that eating bugs had become a right wing meme. I found that out only after we had talked about that. I don't see being adventurous as being political, but if it is, I guess I'm glad I'm not on the fearful-of-everything side.

I've eaten clams, mussels, oysters (raw and cooked), scallops, lobster, crabs, conch, squid, octopus and probably a few other mollusks that I have forgotten. I haven't eaten snails, as that's really not a thing over here, except in some fancy restaurants. I've just never heard of anybody eating slugs, and considering we eat darn near every other member of the order, that seems weird.

[wes4dbt]

What do you think about this cease fire. Is it real? Israel is already dragging it's feet and making excuses.

Sunday seem a long way away at this point.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It isn't real. Israel will drag it out until at least the 21st.

[wes4dbt]

It isn't real. Israel will drag it out until at least the 21st.

Sounds like you think Israel wants to suck up to Trump. Sounds reasonable. I'm pretty sure Trump will try and take credit.

It doesn't seem like Israel wants to stop killing Palestinians.

[TysonLPrice]

Sounds like you think Israel wants to suck up to Trump. Sounds reasonable. I'm pretty sure Trump will try and take credit.

It doesn't seem like Israel wants to stop killing Palestinians.

Since 1967 and counting...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Two of his coalition partners threatened to pull out of the coalition over this. So far, they have not. If they do, then the government falls. So, will they? And if they don't, then what did Netanyahu give them to keep them in?

He may have given them nothing. They might have calculated that a threat was worth trying, but not worth going through with. No other government will give them what they want, so they're better off sticking with what they have.

[TysonLPrice]

Two of his coalition partners threatened to pull out of the coalition over this. So far, they have not. If they do, then the government falls. So, will they? And if they don't, then what did Netanyahu give them to keep them in?

He may have given them nothing. They might have calculated that a threat was worth trying, but not worth going through with. No other government will give them what they want, so they're better off sticking with what they have.

In three days he will have a trump card...that may up the ante.

[wes4dbt]

Well, it looks like the deal was accepted by the Israeli's.

We'll just have to wait and see if they are sincere.

[TysonLPrice]

Well, it looks like the deal was accepted by the Israeli's.

We'll just have to wait and see if they are sincere.

Last I heard Netanyahu had to agree to start up the war again at the end of Phase I, effectively killing phases II and III.

[FunkyDexter]

I'm pretty sure Trump will try and take credit.

I am willing to give him some of the credit. I imagine his threats did have some effect on getting Hamas to the table (though I think they've been more willing to negotiate prior to now so it's not clear how much that was really worth). I don't think he can take credit for Netanyahu coming to the table though. If that was on Trump then Netanyahu would have delayed until the 21st to make sure he got the credit. And it was Biden's team's plan that has been agreed so they should certainly get some credit too.

There's a YouTuber call William Spaniel who I like and he did a pretty good examination of this.

I honestly don't know if this is going to last. I'm more optimistic than I have been up to now but the internal politics in Israel are pretty complicated. Netanyahu's Right flank are threatening to leave but the Left have offered to support him on this so... who knows. At this point Hezbollah's leadership have been pretty much eradicated, Hamas's have been severely weakened and, with the collapse of Syria, I don't think there's much threat of the Palestinian side breaking it in the short term - though we shouldn't forget that the PLA will still not be in power in Gaza so Hamas is likely to hold power there.

[wes4dbt]

though we shouldn't forget that the PLA will still not be in power in Gaza so Hamas is likely to hold power there.

This is the problem that needs to be fixed.

Israel can never kill all the terrorist in the region, they need the Palestinians and Israelis working together to control it. But I don't see how that's possible now, after all these attacks and killing of innocent Palestinians recently by the Israelis, why would the Palestinians want to work with the Israelis?

[Shaggy Hiker]

It may last. After the fall of Syria, Iran may simply be too weakened to be willing to help their proxies, all of whom have proven to be deeply flawed. That gives people room to breathe. Some are saying that Trump should get some credit for this, and I'm fine with that. The reasoning is that Netanyahu wasn't sure what would happen after today if the peace deal hadn't been started. Chaos for the win...is still a win...if there can be anything like a win in that mess. I suppose it's a bit of a win for the families of the hostages that were returned alive. That's a fair amount.

[wes4dbt]

I don't see how eventually it doesn't degrade back into deadly conflicts. No progress has been made with Israel's relationship with it's neighbors. If anything they've created more hatred towards them.

Maybe the fear of Israel's retaliation will have some effect. I just don't think that'll be enough.

[TysonLPrice]

New president, new ball game. Buckle up!

[FunkyDexter]

I don't see how eventually it doesn't degrade back into deadly conflicts.

What optimism I have comes mostly from the "eventually" bit.

[wes4dbt]

What optimism I have comes mostly from the "eventually" bit.

Unless Palestinians can get some help forming a government strong enough to take control away from Hamas, I'd say "eventually" will be less than a year.