Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[Eduardo-]

OK good, there's been more than enough arguing, fighting, murder, and war about the right way to pray already, so let's move on.

On these things you can have someone like Dr. Malone (a metaphor) and people like the ones with "tin foil hat on their heads" (another metaphor). And the "mainstream media" saying nonsense (also a metaphor).
No question that few people are interested. It is how the world works. It makes difficult to know the truth about important things.
But the real point is that few people are interested in knowing, otherwise they would try to research a bit (or at least not pretend to argue with Dr. Malone as if they are on par).
What would Dr. Malone say? "Good bye, nice to meet you".

[baka]

the thing is that our government want the group they call "anti-vaxxers" to exist.
they use it to blame someone instead of their own incompetence, corruption and greed.

we all know, in all western countries theres this issue with old population and health care, and elderly care.
this is facts. economist have made the calculations, theres not enough money and I don't mean just a few coins, its enormous. and they predict when in the future theres this impossible budget will occur, and its not far away.

if you failed to see the last decade all the problems we have with the economy that are about to collapse it will be harder to make a connection on whats going on right now.

anyway, my government uses the anti-vaxxers to blame everything. even if we are almost 90% vaccinated, it seems, its not enough.
while blaming the non-vaccinated, they change the laws on about everything, censor the internet, restrict your movement, feeding the market with enormous loans so it will not collapse.
but the most important thing they don't do: protect the elderly and the people with risk factors.
at this right moment, those people are dying the most, just yesterday they wrote about an outbreak in an elderly home. even if all are fully vaccinated, they got sick and a lot died.

and why should they protect them at all? spending money on old people are not giving them money back. instead they create an pandemic that will be all about the industry. spending money on that,
even so, a lot of companies last year did very well, the market is blooming during the pandemic. all those loans to make the market happy. instead of using that money on the most important thing, the weak and old.

in the same time, after all those rich people got richer, its soon time to pay back those loans, with increased taxes on everything. now its time to pay back.
I did get nothing from this. I didnt earn 1$. but lots of people in high positions got bonuses and increase salaries. but what I got is, 9 times higher electricity costs, gas that is now reaching new records, everything cost more.

this while the government is blaming the anti-vaxxers and what do the majority of people? they do exactly this, they blame the anti-vaxxers. failing to see the big picture.
sure, theres a lot of anti-vaxxers that is all about the vaccine, but for me its about the corruption. I don't want to feed it. for me, this is my stand.

people are indeed to blame, they are easily fooled and they do warfare and commit crimes easily with just the right push.

[Shaggy Hiker]

OK,
Since we are talking nonsense here, here is my nonsense of the day.
Run to the hills bass attempt sample.
No metronome and with a pickup, ouch!


Believe me you don't want to hear the fingers version
(how the heck?I mean 2 fingers?3 fingers maybe but 2?)

About doggone time that you said something that made sense to me!

[Shaggy Hiker]

we all know, in all western countries theres this issue with old population and health care, and elderly care.
this is facts. economist have made the calculations, theres not enough money and I don't mean just a few coins, its enormous. and they predict when in the future theres this impossible budget will occur, and its not far away.

I don't know which country you are talking from, but that's not really the case in the US. After all, we aren't that generous with health care or elder care. We could handle our obligations without much difficulty, since we didn't oblige ourselves to much.

[sapator]

50.000 cases 50 deaths today. We never had that number, even last year that vax and non vax where together flowering the roads.Now non vax are at home.
From those 1 death is from Omicron. At least what they claim. So now vaccines, do nothing for infections, if the numbers are correct they may even boost infections (I posted an article from Germany institute a couple of pages ago that show that after 4-5 months the curve of immunization may go negative, so don't take it on me, take it on them).
Personnel of the 2 biggest hospitals in Greece in Athens and Salonika have cases between 50 and 70%. They are all fully vaccinated and the non vax are on suspension from September.
Instead of re-estating the unvaccinated to help the system, they are looking at hiring people from the private sector. Their obsession and idiocy is peaking.
Also, lol, that was a good one. They made all the football fans to go vaccinate in order to watch a game, now they gave out a 1.000 max fans per game policy. The fans are running wild protesting.You should have known better.

I'm also thinking of talking about Jocovits but it's a cross continental issues so I'm currently holding back.

(Vaccination is good for you.
Eugene H. Krabs)

[wes4dbt]

So now vaccines, do nothing for infections, if the numbers are correct they may even boost infections (I posted an article from Germany institute a couple of pages ago that show that after 4-5 months the curve of immunization may go negative, so don't take it on me, take it on them).

I don't know which study that article is about but I've seen a couple of those articles recently, I've also seen articles saying that vaccines may have negative effectiveness is a misrepresentation of the data. I'm not going to argue over who's right. It does seem clear that Omicron it more effective at evading the vaccine. So far the vaccine seems to provide protection against the severity of the infection. But I don't think that Omicron has been around long enough for reliable hospital/death protection data. But at the current infection rates lets hope that Omicron is magnitudes less deadly. 50% less deadly is not enough to keep the deaths from raising dramatically.

Here we have no lockdowns. The unvaccinated are not at home. And if we're going to have 70,000 vaccinated go to football games, 10,000 going to basketball games then why waste our time even considering lockdowns.

So I'll stay calm, stick to my "wait and see" approach (No SH, not wait at sea) and hope for the best.

[sapator]

I think is 70 to 80% less deadly, if I am not mistaken but anyhow, right now we are on a waiting stage as you've said.

[baka]

I think its like
delta 0.3-0.6
omicron 0.03-0.06

but as you say, its too early to say anything definitive.
right now, most death are still delta or a combination of both or a combination of other viruses and illness.

[wes4dbt]

Per the BBC


What incentive is there for a young, healthy person like myself to get the vaccine if Australia has a 90% compliance rate but is simultaneously "in the depths of its worst Covid-19 wave yet"?

It is hard for me to take seriously that vaccines are working when the corporate media will in one side of its mouth say that the vaccine works but on the other side say that highly vaccinated countries are experiencing the worst waves they've experienced.

This seems to be a common justification. But it ignores the vaccine effectiveness prior to Omicron, the effectiveness on the severity and ignores the fact that young healthy people can die from Covid. Personally I don't care if you want to risk your life. But to act like there isn't any reason to get vaccinated if your young and healthy isn't true. IMO

Now if it turns out Omicron truly is less severe then there will be less reason for the young and healthy to get vaccinate but we're not sure of that yet.

[sapator]

Corporate media will say what they pay them to say.
The problem is elsewhere IMHO.
If,if, omicron prove to be like a common cold, what will happen with the pre ordered vaccines?
What I'm thinking is they will either have pre bought aka paid, so the vaccines will just rot and buried in Africa as usual or they haven't pre paid, so ,hmmm, if the med corps haven't been blood thirsty for money enough...
The second outcome is most intriguing for me, I don't hope it to be true but I would like to be in a position to sit on a spot and see how would that be going.

P.S. IMHO, for vaxbie wannabees there no reason to vaccinate immediately. The data is coming fast so just hold your breath.

[baka]

I got sick, 10 months ago.
10 days, low fever, some muscle pain, not coughing but I felt a bit sore my lungs when I did deep breathing.
after that I felt really good. its like it was a "reset", and I felt more energetic.
so, after that I have not been sick one day.
and the influenza and other viruses are going around, people are sick around me, both influenza and covid, but Im still not getting any of it.

but sure, this summer I started with cold showers and breath technics, so that gives me a boost of immune protection as well.

I have not taken any vaccine, and I will not. my immune system is better than 2 doses. and why should I inject a vaccine into my body that will destroy the harmony of my own immune system and also, to protect me against the weaker version omicron? if I survived without any problems alpha/delta, I can survive a 10 times weaker version of it.

[wes4dbt]

You may not care, but politicians in cities across the country certainly do care. I am more concerned about authoritarian measures like vaccine mandates than I am dying from this virus.

If you want to risk your life over mandates, fine with me. But that's a different justification.

[baka]

u take risks everyday.
its part of life.

its also a risk to take the vaccine. people have died from it or getting severe reaction.
theres athletes that got cardiac arrest. one here where I live, 23 years old, died during a run.

[wes4dbt]

u take risks everyday.
its part of life.

its also a risk to take the vaccine. people have died from it or getting severe reaction.
theres athletes that got cardiac arrest. one here where I live, 23 years old, died during a run.

Why do you point out one death you say is from the vaccine, are you saying it's more dangerous to get vaccinated than not to? Do you think it's even a close comparison? You didn't post just to tell me life is full of risks.

[baka]

yes. a fully healthy young person do take risks.

from start scientist had said, younger should take it to protect the old and weak. not because they risk to die.
of course they change the narrative all the time, to scare u, to force u into submission. but facts is, its not dangerous to a person that is healthy.

I got sick, I know friends that got sick and its not that severe. theres other diseases that are worse.

if the old and weak gets the vaccine, why do I need to take it, if the narrative is: do not spread it.
does it mean it doesn't work? since if I need to take it to protect a vaccinated person?

well, Im now immune, my antibodies is x27 times better than a vaccinated person. so in reality Im much better to have around then a vaccinated person.
so, the best course of action is:

- protect the old and weak, give them vaccines and medicines that works.
- let the healthy population get sick

but we have a number of unhealthy persons that get sick that didnt take the vaccine. and we also have many older and weaker that did take 1,2 and even 3 shots and got sick and died.
you are unhealthy if you are obese, if you smoke, if you eat bad food all the time.

why do I need to be punished because people are living unhealthy lives?
and why do I need to be punished because big pharma wants to sell vaccines and the narrative is: u need to protect the old and weak.

I demand the government to protect the old and weak and instruct the unhealthy people to be healthy.
now they do a collective punishment and create mass hysteria and create a totalitarian regime.

and.. its not one death. a lot of athletes got heart problems. and the same the young men population. and this is facts, you can read it in "propaganda media".

[baka]

and here, the latest news where I live
https://newsbeezer.com/swedeneng/jul...e-the-vaccine/

so, a 23 years old girl, vaccinated August and September.
November she got sick, alpha/delta (she don't know what) and was "really" sick she told,
and December, yet again she got sick, (she don't know what, likely omicron)
she was at a party and 13 out of 25 got sick.


so what does this tell about the vaccines?
they are unpredictable. she got sick after just 2 months.
and because of that "false" safety, and covid-certificate she infects others and spreading it around.

is this her fault? partially. because I did know this. that the vaccines are not good enough. its also your responsibility to know that.
and I mean, if you allow someone to inject something into your body, you should definitely do some background research. if not, you are reckless.

I would not do any partying knowing that omicron is around. its insane.
but the vaccinated do like this. risking other peoples life.

[wes4dbt]

yes. a fully healthy young person do take risks.

I still don't know the point of this statement. Of course young, healthy, old, unhealthy people take risk Did you think people didn't know that?

I got sick, I know friends that got sick and its not that severe

I'm surprised that you think over 5,000,000 deaths in 2yrs isn't a severe disease.

- let the healthy population get sick

Do you think healthy people don't die from Covid. That's false. My daughter works as an ICU nurse and she has seen several healthy people die from Covid and she is just one nurse in one hospital. It's true the death rate for the young and healthy is very low but the death rate for the young and healthy that are vaccinated is much lower.

why do I need to be punished because people are living unhealthy lives?

If this is about mandates, as I said before, at this point in time it's fine with me if you want to take that risk. Just don't act like there is no risk.

[baka]

young people die from all kinds of stuff.
we are not immune to death. young people gets cancer.

but if you think of whats best for the human race
thats natural selection. as we have done millions of years.

human body adapt and evolve.
to let a foreign substance be "needed" for the human race to survive will make our own body weaker and weaker, until we need to get a shot every day to survive.

we already do that, people eating medicine more and more. and its increasing.
big pharma wants this, for profit.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It doesn't really work that way. Evolution doesn't have a purpose or a direction.

It seems fairly clear that a fair number of problems we have are due to living in an environment that is too clean. We don't encounter enough challenges. Of course, we also live longer, as well, since a portion of the population always fails those challenges. We tend to accept that, though.

One interesting study that you might consider is one that looked at starvation in Southeast Asia. What was found was that the offspring of men who went through a period of starvation in their youth, had virtually no heart disease. The men themselves didn't benefit, quite the opposite, but their children appeared to benefit considerably. Of course, that would mean that every other generation can benefit if the alternating generations starved.

There are a bunch of other things like that, such as hookworm and allergies/asthma. A few parasites seems to provide a benefit, too many definitely doesn't but in a different way such that you end up balancing different stats. Would you trade lower intelligence for higher durability, or the other way around?

That seems to be what happens in life: Everything is a trade off. Every positive comes with a negative, that may not be clearly related. You often don't get to decide which one you get. Quite often, you don't get either. You don't even get presented with a choice. Other times, you get the choice, but it was made for you, perhaps even before you were born, and your life arc is influenced by that choice.

Health and cleanliness are just choices open to some. They all come with costs as well as benefits.

[PlausiblyDamp]

young people die from all kinds of stuff.
we are not immune to death. young people gets cancer.

but if you think of whats best for the human race
thats natural selection. as we have done millions of years.

human body adapt and evolve.
to let a foreign substance be "needed" for the human race to survive will make our own body weaker and weaker, until we need to get a shot every day to survive.

we already do that, people eating medicine more and more. and its increasing.
big pharma wants this, for profit.

Evolution is a very slow and uncertain process, it can take thousands of years for even minor changes to occur.

Medicine and related health improvements (call it Big Pharma if you like) have contributed massively to how long people live https://www.statista.com/statistics/...gdom-all-time/ shows the life expectancy here in the UK - that isn't down to evolution. Some of that will be better hygiene, however a major contribution will be medicine, surgery, vaccines etc.

As a species we do an awful lot of unnatural things, the definition of unnatural may however change over time...

e.g.
It would seem we first started wearing what could be described as clothes about 500,000 years ago - up until then being naked was "natural" I would rather be unnatural and wear clothes than try to survive a Welsh winter while being naked. I am also sure my neighbours appreciate my wearing clothes as well....

Evidence of people wearing glasses is only 13th century, yet nobody would consider glasses unnatural anymore. In fact, given my eyesight the chances of me surviving outdoors without glasses is virtually nil.

Electric hearing aids are less than 250 years old, would you consider them unnatural?

Smallpox killed hundreds of millions of people until it was eradicated, should we have allowed it to continue killing that many people rather than take an "unnatural vaccine"?

Beta-Blockers can improve survival rates for certain types of heart failure, are they unnatural?

The fact that "young people die from all kinds of stuff" and "we are not immune to death" doesn't mean that we should accept that and allow it to happen, chemotherapy is a horrible process and about as unnatural a way to keep someone alive as I can imagine - I am however glad that it is a thing as it has saved the life of more than one of my friends.

[wes4dbt]

young people die from all kinds of stuff.
we are not immune to death. young people gets cancer.

but if you think of whats best for the human race
thats natural selection. as we have done millions of years.

human body adapt and evolve.
to let a foreign substance be "needed" for the human race to survive will make our own body weaker and weaker, until we need to get a shot every day to survive.

we already do that, people eating medicine more and more. and its increasing.
big pharma wants this, for profit.

None of this seems to be about Covid.

You want the human race to devolve back to natural selection.
Stop putting foreign substances in our body even if we need it to survive.
Also, you keep repeating that big pharma profits from people using medicine.

IMO the first two items are incredibly bad ideas. The third, big pharma makes bigger profits by selling more medicine is true. Some are also more than capable of using unethical methods. Some have been caught. I'm still glad they exist.

[Niya]

I'd have died 15 years ago if it wasn't for modern medicine.

[sapator]

But now you did the vaccine, so karma is a briatch! Muharahaaaarrrr!!!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Sounds like you went all in on that evil laugh, there. You have to regulate yourself. Go too heavy on the first part of the laugh and you just end up choking on the tail end of it, as you did there. Start soft, rise in the middle, and you'll be able to sustain it enough to drag it out into a nice, evil trill at the end.

[sapator]

Yep.
No recommended to do it like so, only for trained personnel.
If I where a vaxbie tho, I would have to do a vaxbie laugh, that would go like this...Aheeemm.
Muahhhssssshhhhrhhgggghhhahhhhrrrrrrbraaainsssssss!!!
That's a though one, I must give you that. The vaccine really helps lungin it out.

[Shaggy Hiker]

True, true.

[baka]

this is quite interesting.
guess the country that didnt have any lockdowns.

[baka]

more fun facts

when the worse period in the seasonal flu 2017-2018 here in Sweden was the death rates 14 people a day.
the last 2 week last year we had 5 death a day. even so, they have increased restrictions even more.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Show the US. We should be in the dark blue area, but might be in the category before that. We had no lockdowns that I'm aware of during the period shown. We had lockdowns, but they were earlier in 2020, whereas that chart begins in December 2020.

[baka]

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...VnJ5SwEQ2K.mp4

[Eduardo-]

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...VnJ5SwEQ2K.mp4

Thank you baka.

[baka]

thx Eduardo, I first saw it in twitter, this is better and longer video!

[dee-u]

From 889 last Dec. 29 we now have more than 20K+ daily.

28,007 - January 11, 2022
33,169 - January 10, 2022
28,707 - January 9, 2022
26,458 - January 8, 2022
21,819 - January 7, 2022
17,220 - January 6, 2022
10,775 - January 5, 2022
5,434 - January 4, 2022
4,084 - January 3, 2022
4,600 - January 2, 2022
3,617 - January 1, 2022
2,961 - December 31, 2021
1,623 - December 30, 2021
889 - December 29, 2021

[Eduardo-]

From 889 last Dec. 29 we now have more than 20K+ daily.

28,007 - January 11, 2022
33,169 - January 10, 2022
28,707 - January 9, 2022
26,458 - January 8, 2022
21,819 - January 7, 2022
17,220 - January 6, 2022
10,775 - January 5, 2022
5,434 - January 4, 2022
4,084 - January 3, 2022
4,600 - January 2, 2022
3,617 - January 1, 2022
2,961 - December 31, 2021
1,623 - December 30, 2021
889 - December 29, 2021

That's normal for Omicron. The duplication rate of infections with Omicron is between 2 to 3 days.
From December 29 to January 9 in that data the duplication was about 2.4

[dee-u]

32,246 new cases for today Jan. 12, 2022

[baka]

we should not discuss "cases" that are significant for the people in charge to adjust preparations.
for us mortals the most important is death-rates in percent of population.

I mean, "cases" for a flu, ebola and covid means different things.
sometimes can a "high" rate of cases be positive.

[sapator]

I've read that in Canada they might postpone buying of Alcohol and Cannabis to non vaccinated.
Now, why did they not think that in Greece? They would have caught us read handed. Even I, that I can't do the vaccine would have become a vaxbie!! Braaaaiiinnnnssss!!!!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Postpone buying stuff? That would be weird.

[TysonLPrice]

Postpone buying stuff? That would be weird.

This may be what he was referring to:

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/11/10722...-covid-penalty

This is mentioned in the link:

In Greece, those over 60 have until Jan. 16 to get their first jabs or be fined 100 euros ($113) for every month they remain unvaccinated.

sapator may have something to say about that

[wes4dbt]

we should not discuss "cases" that are significant for the people in charge to adjust preparations.
for us mortals the most important is death-rates in percent of population.

I mean, "cases" for a flu, ebola and covid means different things.
sometimes can a "high" rate of cases be positive.

Both are important, you just need to put it in perspective. With COVID the deaths seem to lag by at least 2 weeks.

Here in the US, this week the weekly average of daily cases is up 36% (we had been rising by 70+% a week) to @ 750,000 a day. This week the weekly average of daily deaths is up 38% to @ 1,600 a day. It's starting to look like O is less severe but the death rate is still getting worse because of the tremendous increase in daily new cases. It has went up over 500% in the last 3 weeks.