Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[dilettante]

I went to a small store last night. One worker, no mask. Seemed very odd considering we have Delta ramping up here now.

She seemed new though. Maybe as they race to the bottom of the resume pile they are getting the dregs of society? Probably unvaccinated as well as not masking.

[xiaoyao]

Many countries know the principles of atomic bombs, rockets, and aircraft carriers. How many countries can actually be created?

India can only imitate some simple compound drugs. For products with higher technological content such as vaccines, India is helpless. This is especially true for the new crown vaccine. Its research and development time is short and the technical requirements are high. Four countries, China, the United States, Russia and the United Kingdom have successfully developed vaccines. The AstraZeneca vaccine in the United Kingdom, Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer vaccines in the United States have very serious side effects, causing many deaths. Many countries have stopped them, even the United States and the United Kingdom themselves. Re-use, it can be seen that the technical difficulty of vaccine development is great, especially for India.

[dilettante]

Funny, things look quite different out here in the free world.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, that's my view, too. China is pushing its vaccines wherever and however it can, but there's a reason why people would rather have one of the others if they can: If you're going to get a shot, you want it to do something.

[sapator]

There is an official document of the state circulating that says that people that lost their homes due to the fire can stay on temporary hospitality structures as long as they are vaccinated.
They will probably take this back tomorrow as it will be published more broadly but it's an example of what we talked before.

[wes4dbt]

Funny, things look quite different out here in the free world.

I LOT different. I don't know if that's the propaganda they're pushing in China or if xiaoyoa is just making this stuff up on his own. But all this my country is the greatest and your country sucks crap sound more like a political speech than chit chat. You love your country, great. But why make a point of degrading others.

[TysonLPrice]

I LOT different. I don't know if that's the propaganda they're pushing in China or if xiaoyoa is just making this stuff up on his own. But all this my country is the greatest and your country sucks crap sound more like a political speech than chit chat. You love your country, great. But why make a point of degrading others.

Maybe there is a little projecting going on...

[sapator]

Here is the aforementioned nazi document.

https://www.makeleio.gr/wp-content/u...33925340_n.jpg

[OptionBase1]

I just saw some local statistics for cases of Covid among the vaccinated. Of course, the data was presented with a moronic statistical analysis that obscures the severity of Covid among the vaccinated. For example, the "death rate" they presented was total Covid deaths among the vaccinated divided by the total number of people vaccinated.

Of the "breakthrough" cases, just over 9% required hospitalization, and just over 1% died. Those numbers are basically exactly the same as has been the case since the pandemic started in my state. Meaning the vaccine appears to have no effect on the severity of a Covid infection.

So, now that's another vaccination "narrative" upheaval.

We've been told (by various officials, including Joe Biden):

Vaccinated people can't catch Covid (clearly false).
Vaccinated people can catch Covid but they can't spread Covid (clearly false).
Vaccinated people can catch Covid but they will have a mild case and won't need to be hospitalized (clearly false).
Vaccinated people can catch Covid but they will have a mild case and won't die from it (clearly false).

But I guess none of that matters, right? I mean, so what if the data keeps showing that the Covid vaccine does little to no good for the people that experience breakthrough cases, and has the small chance of killing you outright, right? Shut up and get the shot or you'll lose your job!!!

[dilettante]

It's hilarious to watch these trypanophobes concoct a narrative to justify their fears.

[dilettante]

[xiaoyao]

When the new crown epidemic started, the United States and other countries may have infected tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of people.
As soon as China received such patients, the nationwide blockade was immediately initiated. In addition to the time of the onset of the virus, the virus was basically wiped out in about 2 months, and the virus was contained. It is a pity that almost half of the people in many countries around the world have been infected. The virus has become completely unstoppable, and it is impossible to rely on manual isolation to realize the automatic extinction of the virus.

At the beginning of the epidemic, people had imagined that the new crown would suddenly disappear like SARS, and they had hoped that all countries and regions would be cleared like China. Under the assumption that the epidemic can be ended in a short period of time, the new crown is just a encounter. During this period, all other factors can temporarily make way for the prevention and control of the new crown

But the prevalence of the delta strain has once again shattered this hope. The effect of multiple vaccines has changed from preventing infection to preventing severe illness... Relying on vaccines to resist infection and defeating the virus in a short period of time has once again become a fantasy.

A recent "New Yorker" article quoted Professor Jesse Bloom, a virologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in the United States: "The possibility of the new coronavirus being completely eradicated is zero."

[sapator]

Fires still burning in Greece,is this the 9th?10day? This is unbelievable, but OK let me say some words about covid.

As I've said, vaccination should not be mandatory. Everyone should decide if the vaccine help him/her.
As for the people that cannot do the vaccine, there is no more excuse that they will caught covid from the non vaccinated as equally vax and non vax can spread covid.

About needles. I hated needles, I was one step close to have trypanophobia but I had the misfortune to require an operation a couple of years ago, I didn't know then but for the anesthesia and when the operation ends they use some huge needles that if I'm not mistaken are called endopblebia, I had to translate so intravenously or all the needles are intravenous? These are needles that are 2 times the size and 3 times the thickness of normal ones and are used on operations.They are supposed to be removed after the patience completes the operation but, yep, they forgot to remove them from me for 3 days! As expected my hand caught all the colors of the rainbow. That and being in injected serum for 15 days at the hospital actually made me pass the needle fear. Doing a vaccine at that time would be similar in fear like raising my eyebrow, after years have passed I still don't like needles but I can tolerate them.

[OptionBase1]

It's hilarious to watch these trypanophobes concoct a narrative to justify their fears.

Clearly your post wasn't a response to mine. You're better than that, right?

[OptionBase1]

I'm just curious if the venomous vitriol against unvaccinated people subsides (as it should) or ramps up to 11 (just for the hell of it) if the statistics continue to demonstrate that the vaccination provides little to no enhanced protection for those who get breakthrough Covid cases. I'm not very optimistic, since it seems like a "no logic zone" for the rabid torch holders.

[TysonLPrice]

if the statistics continue to demonstrate that the vaccination provides little to no protection against Covid

I wonder if that post would get you a warning/suspension on sites like Twitter and Facebook...your statement is flat out false and in my opinion detrimental to public health.

[xiaoyao]

I have been vaccinated twice, but unfortunately I hardly feel any pain. China's vaccines are still quite good. In fact, it is basically not profitable by this alone, but it is very good for increasing international visibility to allow more countries to use Chinese vaccines. But the United States tried every means to promote their vaccines and banned Chinese exports. Even if the price of vaccines in India is only 10%, the United States prohibits all countries in the world from purchasing vaccines from India.

[xiaoyao]

With the First World War, there was the Second World War, and then the atomic bomb was invented, the future nuclear war, and the war between space and interplanetary warships.
With the new crown virus, there will be hundreds of thousands of variant viruses that can spread from person to person, as well as viruses that spread through river water quality. The destruction of mankind is only a matter of time.
In the end, it was too simple for a plague to kill 50% of the world's population.

[xiaoyao]

How many bacteria are there in the human body?
We are not humans, but a combination of humans and microorganisms! In this combination, the ratio of microorganisms to human cells is 9:1. There are more than 1 million species of bacteria in one palm of one's hand!
Studies have shown that more than 100 billion microorganisms live in the human body, with as many as 400 species distributed in the digestive tract, eyes, nose, mouth, skin and vagina.
A group of American scientists found that the human belly button is a bacterial nest that is parasitic with about 1,400 kinds of bacteria.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Fires still burning in Greece,is this the 9th?10day? This is unbelievable, but OK let me say some words about covid.

Just be glad that you can be surprised at that. Out here, fires happen every year, and it is generally understood that we can't put out any large fire. They will burn until the weather turns, which might be October. So, nine or ten days is nothing. Some of the fires started in June will likely burn until October.

Of course, this is a fire ecology. Some of the trees put out cones that won't release their seeds without fire. The cones are basically sealed shut and require the heat of a fire to open them up, so no fire no trees.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'm just curious if the venomous vitriol against unvaccinated people subsides (as it should) or ramps up to 11 (just for the hell of it) if the statistics continue to demonstrate that the vaccination provides little to no protection against Covid. I'm not very optimistic, since it seems like a "no logic zone" for the rabid torch holders.

Not the statistics you showed. Those say nothing at all about protection against COVID. You talked about the severity of breakthrough cases, not the incidence of breakthrough cases, so even if the statistics you posted were true they have nothing to do about the protection of the vaccines against COVID.

[OptionBase1]

i wonder if that post would get you a warning/suspension on sites like twitter and facebook...your statement is flat out false and in my opinion detrimental to public health.

lol.

Edit to add: Another lol.

[OptionBase1]

Not the statistics you showed. Those say nothing at all about protection against COVID. You talked about the severity of breakthrough cases, not the incidence of breakthrough cases, so even if the statistics you posted were true they have nothing to do about the protection of the vaccines against COVID.

I will agree with that, for now. Time will tell if "breakthrough" cases are indeed some sort of one-off, or the norm.

But I stand by my statements earlier that what we've been told over, and over, and over about how a vaccinated person who gets Covid will have a much milder case, very little (or no) chance of needing to be hospitalized or die, is being shown to be completely untrue, at least where I live.

[sapator]

Just be glad that you can be surprised at that. Out here, fires happen every year, and it is generally understood that we can't put out any large fire. They will burn until the weather turns, which might be October. So, nine or ten days is nothing. Some of the fires started in June will likely burn until October.

Of course, this is a fire ecology. Some of the trees put out cones that won't release their seeds without fire. The cones are basically sealed shut and require the heat of a fire to open them up, so no fire no trees.

I can relate to that but bear in mind that we are a small country. Burning for 10 (11 today) days is just a ridiculous amount of time, I have never seen or heard 11 days burn in Greece so it's a first.

My sympathies to OptionBase1, I'm just not in the mood to talk about covid. Maybe next week when we settle down a little from the fires.

[dilettante]

Vaccination is not magic. if you need that then you can put your faith in healing crystals, sage smoke, and meditation instead.

The purpose is to give your immune system a chance to safely recognize the virus and then remember what it looks like for subsequent attacks. The immune system is never perfect and in some people it may be limited in effectiveness. That can be due to genetics, nutrition, or damage by environmental hazards. If you get a concentrated exposure to a virus even good immunity has its limits.

Why is this so hard to understand? That much was pretty well known even back in the day when I got polio and smallpox vaccinations as a kid. How this is even an issue escapes me. All it shows is that people have gotten dumber.

[TysonLPrice]

lol.

Edit to add: Another lol.

I forgot YouTube:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...masks-n1276534

You and Rand Paul can come here to VBForums where lies are not tracked as closely by our moderators...

A spokesperson for YouTube told NBC News that the video violated company policy on Covid-19 misinformation, which includes “claims that wearing a mask is dangerous or causes negative physical health effects” or that masks don't play a role in preventing the contraction or transmission of COVID-19

.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

But I stand by my statements earlier that what we've been told over, and over, and over about how a vaccinated person who gets Covid will have a much milder case, very little (or no) chance of needing to be hospitalized or die, is being shown to be completely untrue, at least where I live.

You can stand by your statements all you like, doesn't stop them being flat out wrong!

It does amuse me that you accuse those of us who follow the science on the covid vaccines of being in a No Logic zone, considering what you have just said.

Also you seem to have taken a leaf out of a politicians playbooks by making statements, removing any context and/or making inaccurate attributions and then declaring them false or lies

[OptionBase1]

You can stand by your statements all you like, doesn't stop them being flat out wrong!

It does amuse me that you accuse those of us who follow the science on the covid vaccines of being in a No Logic zone, considering what you have just said.

Also you seem to have taken a leaf out of a politicians playbooks by making statements, removing any context and/or making inaccurate attributions and then declaring them false or lies

https://www.health.state.mn.us/disea...stats/vbt.html

5599 cases
514 hospitalizations (9.18%)
57 deaths (1.02%)

But, keep screaming lies!

[OptionBase1]

I forgot YouTube:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...masks-n1276534

You and Rand Paul can come here to VBForums where lies are not tracked as closely by our moderators...

.

I'll send him an invitation.

[OptionBase1]

Looks like dialing it up to 11 it is. Good luck everyone.

[OptionBase1]

Vaccination is not magic. if you need that then you can put your faith in healing crystals, sage smoke, and meditation instead.

The purpose is to give your immune system a chance to safely recognize the virus and then remember what it looks like for subsequent attacks. The immune system is never perfect and in some people it may be limited in effectiveness. That can be due to genetics, nutrition, or damage by environmental hazards. If you get a concentrated exposure to a virus even good immunity has its limits.

Why is this so hard to understand? That much was pretty well known even back in the day when I got polio and smallpox vaccinations as a kid. How this is even an issue escapes me. All it shows is that people have gotten dumber.

I'm glad we're in agreement then. We were promised magic and the vaccine isn't magic.

[OptionBase1]

Final thoughts. Don't let my words or anyone else's words on any internet forum guide your decision about getting a Covid vaccine or not getting one. If I were old and had pre-existing conditions like diabetes, I would have likely been first in line to get the thing.

[TysonLPrice]

Final thoughts. Don't let my words or anyone else's words on any internet forum guide your decision about getting a Covid vaccine or not getting one. If I were old and had pre-existing conditions like diabetes, I would have likely been first in line to get the thing.

I'm pretty sure you meant:

Final thoughts. Don't let my lies or anyone else's lies on any internet forum guide your decision about getting a Covid vaccine or not getting one. If I were old and had pre-existing conditions like diabetes, I would have likely been first in line to get the thing.

Barbs getting to 11 aside...if you don't want vaccinated fine. The current U.S. pandemic in a pandemic is largely caused by lots of people posting misinformation. At least please don't do that.

[OptionBase1]

I edited my earlier posts to more accurately reflect what I meant. As originally written, they were implying that, all things being equal, getting the Covid vaccine leaves you as vulnerable to getting infected with Covid as someone who has never had Covid and never been vaccinated (essentially, that the vaccine does nothing productive). For the record, I do not believe that at all.

[OptionBase1]

And feel free to use obnoxiously larger fonts as well as colors when you use the word "lies". Don't worry, I won't cry to the mods either, I'll let you get it out of your system.

[TysonLPrice]

And feel free to use obnoxiously larger fonts as well as colors when you use the word "lies". Don't worry, I won't cry to the mods either, I'll let you get it out of your system.

Thanks! I'm a pretty visual guy and like things jumping out at people...I have a serious crayon collection.

[wes4dbt]

It's hard to get an agreement on the numbers. Which makes sense, it just to early to tell. The NY Times put out this article, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-vaccines.html

It has a couple of interesting charts. % of breakthrough cases and hospitalizations/deaths for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. I like the fact it only includes data since vaccinations began.

The hospitalizations were between 5X - 185X higher for the unvaccinated, deaths were between 5X - 85X higher for the unvaccinated. So the range is significant, but even if getting vaccinated only give me 5X, I'll take it. Hell, I'll take 1.5X.

My daughter is a critical care nurse and she sees these needless deaths on a daily basis. On the other hand, my son wont get vaccinated, when I ask him why his answer is "I just don't want to". Which is scary for me, @ 22% of COVID death are people in his age group (45-64). He's 48 and healthy but that's certainly no guarantee. It seem to me a lot of the people that don't get vaccinated see it as a badge of honor. Silly lol

[techgnome]

Just wait a month from now... about two weeks after all those bikers from Sturgis have returned home... we're going to see another spike... because you know they're not social distancing... or wearing masks... or getting vaxx'd.

tick tick tick...

-tg

[TysonLPrice]

It's hard to get an agreement on the numbers. Which makes sense, it just to early to tell. The NY Times put out this article, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-vaccines.html

It has a couple of interesting charts. % of breakthrough cases and hospitalizations/deaths for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. I like the fact it only includes data since vaccinations began.

The hospitalizations were between 5X - 185X higher for the unvaccinated, deaths were between 5X - 85X higher for the unvaccinated. So the range is significant, but even if getting vaccinated only give me 5X, I'll take it. Hell, I'll take 1.5X.

My daughter is a critical care nurse and she sees these needless deaths on a daily basis. On the other hand, my son wont get vaccinated, when I ask him why his answer is "I just don't want to". Which is scary for me, @ 22% of COVID death are people in his age group (45-64). He's 48 and healthy but that's certainly no guarantee. It seem to me a lot of the people that don't get vaccinated see it as a badge of honor. Silly lol

I think I was in my twenties when the Swine Flu vaccinations were being given. At the time my reasoning was "I won't inject anything into my body the government is putting out". I'm probably not any smarter at 66 IQ wise, but I am wiser, I got mine ASAP.

[Shaggy Hiker]

The problem with the breakthrough cases is an assumption that you have equal risk of being a breakthrough case. If that's not true, then the rest of those stats are meaningless. There are people who are severely compromised in one way or another, and we really don't understand that all that well. We know a bunch of factors that increase risk, but we don't generally have a good idea of WHY they increase risk. Sometimes it's patently obvious (if you're immuno compromised...yeah, viruses are going to cause you trouble...and a few things like that), but often it isn't.

If breakthrough cases are randomly distributed among the population of vaccinated people, then you could have a statistical point. If they are not, then you're making a statistical mistake. If breakthrough cases are strongly skewed towards immunocompromised diabetics, then the fact that they have a similar death rate to the unvaccinated makes the vaccines VERY effective indeed. You'd be looking at a fraction of a fraction. The inner fraction might equal the general population, but since it's a fraction of a fraction, the overall rate is miniscule.