Is there a way to add 3 numbers above and 2 numbers below a specific label value?

[Justin M]

Hi there folks! I am making a simple adding game for my students. The basic idea is the students are given a question, and below the question is a label array with 6 elements from 0 to 5. The label array is called AnsChoiceLBL(0) to (5). The correct answer for the question is in another label caption called CorrectAnsLBL.caption.

What I would like to do is have it so one of those AnsChoiceLBL array elements is the correct answer, and the rest of the array elements have other numbers (incorrect answers). Since there are 6 elements total, I would like to have 3 elements to have the next 3 numbers after the correct answer, and 2 numbers below the correct answer.

So if for example, the CorrectAnsLBL.caption was 5, the AnsChoiceLBL array would have numbers like 3,4,5,6,7,8. The numbers could be all mixed up, but I think that would mean the program would have to randomize which element to store the correct answer.

Would anyone know how to do that? Thanks a ton!

Justin

[OptionBase1]

Regardless of how you order your answers, your most observant students will (hopefully) recognize after a few problems that the correct answer is always (lowest possible answer provided) + 2

I would suggest a different approach to providing "in the ballpark" answers if you want to test their ability to determine the proper answer rather than their ability to see patterns.

[jpbro]

I didn't create a UI with labels, but here's my attempt at the puzzle:

Sub GenerateRandomNumberRange(ByVal p_CorrectAnswer As Long, optional ByVal p_Before As Long=3, optional ByVal p_After As Long=2)
   Static s_Randomized As Boolean
   
   Dim la_Picked() As Boolean ' Stores whether a number has been randomly picked or not
   Dim l_Pick As Long   ' A randomly picked number
   Dim l_PickedCount As Long  ' How many random numbers have been uniquely picked
   Dim l_Ubound As Long ' Upper bound of our range of numbers from which to randomly pick
   
   If Not s_Randomized Then
      ' Never initialized the random number generator before, so let's do that
      s_Randomized = True
      Randomize
   End If
   
   If p_Before < 0 Or p_After < 0 Then Err.Raise 5
   
   l_Ubound = p_Before + p_After + 1   ' Calculate the max range of our series of numbers
   ReDim la_Picked(1 To l_Ubound)
   
   Do
      l_Pick = Int(Rnd * l_Ubound) + 1 ' Pick a random number
      
      If Not la_Picked(l_Pick) Then ' Check if that number has already been picked
         ' The current random number has not already been picked
         l_PickedCount = l_PickedCount + 1   ' Increase our picked numbers count
         la_Picked(l_Pick) = True   ' Mark the current random number as picked
         
         Debug.Print l_Pick + p_CorrectAnswer - p_Before - 1   ' Print the current randomly picked number
      End If
   Loop While l_PickedCount < l_Ubound ' Loop until all available numbers have been picked.
End Sub

If you call GenerateRandomNumberRange(5) it will print a random list of Longs from 2 to 7 to the debug window.

[jpbro]

Regardless of how you order your answers, your most observant students will (hopefully) recognize after a few problems that the correct answer is always (lowest possible answer provided) + 2

+1 OptionBase1 - I thought of that too, but then thought that that might actually be a good thing in an educational setting (depending on the grade level). Finding students who can figure out patterns like this quickly might be a good way to identify higher level students. I think it also depends on how many questions are given...with just a handful, it would be unlikely that anyone figures out the pattern.

Overall though I agree with you - if you were trying to ensure that there was no discernible pattern then maybe picking a random number based on the previously randomly chosen number that was not the correct answer would be a good approach?

[Justin M]

This is fantastic, thank you, and thank you everyone for your help. This works great, but I just realized I ran into a small issue. Is there a way to have it so no answerchoices go below 0, and if they go below 0, replace them with another higher number? Like if the correct answer was 2, and one of the choices was -1, have the program replace -1 with another number not used in the choices?

Thanks a ton!

[LaVolpe]

Is there a way to have it so no answerchoices go below 0, and if they go below 0, replace them with another higher number? Like if the correct answer was 2, and one of the choices was -1, have the program replace -1 with another number not used in the choices?

Thanks a ton!

Just a thought

...
    If p_Before < 0 Or p_After < 0 Then Err.Raise 5

   If p_CorrectAnswer - p_Before < 0 Then
      p_After = p_After + (p_Before - p_CorrectAnswer)
      p_Before = p_CorrectAnswer
   End If
...

And a side note. If the possible answers will always be sequential, is there really an point in randomizing them?

[LaVolpe]

After reviewing code given by jpbro, I'd suggest that the randomness should be the p_After or p_Before variables.

For example. Let's say you want 6 total answers, where one will be correct and the other 5 will not. Also, all these numbers will be sequential. Unless you are going to change the p_Before/p_After variables in each call to the function, a pattern exists. In the sample posted earlier, the answer will always be the lowest value answer + 3 (p_Before), just jumbled up. Exception is only if the no-negative rule applied.

Edited: Here is what I am suggesting

Sub GenerateRandomNumberRange(ByVal p_CorrectAnswer As Long, Optional p_NrDummyAnswers As Long = 5)
   Static s_Randomized As Boolean
   
   Dim p_Before As Long, p_After As Long
   
   If Not s_Randomized Then
      ' Never initialized the random number generator before, so let's do that
      s_Randomized = True
      Randomize
   End If
   
    p_Before = Int(Rnd * (p_NrDummyAnswers + 1))
    If p_CorrectAnswer > -1 Then
        ' prevent negative values if correct answer is non-negative else allow it
        If p_CorrectAnswer - p_Before < 0 Then p_Before = p_CorrectAnswer
    End If
    p_After = p_NrDummyAnswers - p_Before
    
    For p_After = (p_CorrectAnswer - p_Before) To (p_CorrectAnswer + p_After)
        Debug.Print p_After;
    Next
    Debug.Print
    
End Sub

Also note that you are talking only about addition. Similar logic can be used for simple subtraction. But with subtraction and answers can be negative (depending on level of difficulty), changes to the logic should be made to allow negative values even if the correct answer is positive.

[OptionBase1]

And a side note. If the possible answers will always be sequential, is there really an point in randomizing them?

I didn't post any code, but in response to this question, based on the algorithm requested, if the order of answers wasn't randomized the correct answer would always be C except in situations where (correct answer - 2) was less than 0, which would presumably be infrequently.

[LaVolpe]

I didn't post any code

Ugh, gave credit to the wrong person, Sorry jpbro

Point taken, but a pattern still existed. Instead of a specific location, answer is a specific offset from the smallest value.

[OptionBase1]

Ugh, gave credit to the wrong person, Sorry jpbro

Point taken, but a pattern still exists. Instead of a specific location, answer is a specific offset from the smallest value.

Right, which is exactly what I pointed out in my first response to the thread.

Not knowing what the exact application is, it's impossible to say how important it is, but as I suggested right away, it would be probably best to come up with a different method to generate the "in the ballpark" wrong answers.

There should even be questions where the correct answer is the lowest number to choose from, and questions where the correct answer is the highest number to choose from. If not, then students will learn to "throw out the lowest and highest answers". This is test writing 101 stuff.

[LaVolpe]

There should even be questions where the correct answer is the lowest number to choose from, and questions where the correct answer is the highest number to choose from. If not, then students will learn to "throw out the lowest and highest answers".

Which I think my suggestion works: randomize the starting point of the sequential numbers. The correct answer can be anywhere in the list, from start to end. If the OP gets into fractions, multiplication & division, then a solution gets a bit more complex to offer reasonable wrong answers along with the correct answer.

[OptionBase1]

Which I think my suggestion works: randomize the starting point of the sequential numbers. The correct answer can be anywhere in the list, from start to end. If the OP gets into fractions, multiplication & division, then a solution gets a bit more complex to offer reasonable wrong answers along with the correct answer.

Yes, that is a much better approach than the original request.

Again, not knowing anything about the specifics of these questions it is tough to make more suggestions, but if I were writing this myself, I would be tempted to add an "in the ballpark offset" value for each question as well. Say, for example, that a question is written such that the only possible solution is an even number, so then the "in the ballpark" offset could be 2, and then your method on top of that would randomly determine where in the least to greatest range the correct answer fits, but then all other answers are still reasonable since they would all be even numbers.

You could also add a "always going to be present wrong value" for each question along with a flag that indicates if this value is used or not. If enabled, it ensures that this specific answer will always be listed as an option regardless of the low to high range. This is commonly used when it is easy to misread a question and perform a careless calculation quickly. For example, a diameter is given and the student uses it to calculate area rather than the radius. You would use this value to ensure that the result of d^2*pi is a choice since that is a common mistake made.

[LaVolpe]

I've seen posts from this OP before, similar 'quiz-like' topics. He does this for kids. I don't know the level of difficulty he focuses on.

Edited: Unless I'm getting him confused with another on this forum... Unfortunately, not an uncommon problem now that I'm getting very long in the tooth

[OptionBase1]

Fair enough, I wasn't familiar with past threads.