Any converts to Linux?

[CVMichael]

I converted to Linux!!

I used to have Windows 7, and I DO NOT want to upgrade to Windows 10. Microsoft is pushing way to hard to install Windows 10, and I don't like their approach. I've read a few articles on-line, and some comments on other forums, and it left me very disappointed in Microsoft.
For example: http://www.computerworld.com/article...-strategy.html (also read comments at the bottom)

So... I backed up Windows 7, and I also converted it to a VM (just in case I need something from it).

First I tried Ubuntu, but after a few hours of playing with it, I realized it's not really for me... Don't like the fixed design, and I was not able to install VMWare on it (so that I can run my old Windows 7 as a VM)

So then I installed Linux Mint Cinnamon, and I LOVE IT!! It feels just like a Windows machine. I still have to LOT of apps to install. I will first try to find the equivalent apps for Linux, and if it's not available, then I will download the Windows version, and try to get it to work in wine, and If I can't get the app to work in wine, then I will install it in a Windows VM as my last resort.

I am hoping that in time, I will rely less and less of the Windows VM(s), and do everything I need in Linux.

PS. I was not sure where to post this.... I was thinking to post in General PC forum, but this more like a chat thread... and please make a SERIOUS thread!

[dilettante]

I suspect that you will find that over time others will join you.

I don't care for the effort required to locate where all of the bodies are buried on another OS myself. I've already had to do that as my clients have ditched Windows for Android and ChromeOS, and Linux on servers. So far all of the server work has been pure Java so that saved some of the pain there.

But as more and more software developers say goodbye to Windows, consumers may follow them fairly quickly. After all we've seen what happened when Microsoft screwed up their mobile play: developers left in droves and consumers quickly followed. Today Microsoft isn't really a player in mobile at all.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

All my work is on the Windows platform so i would find it difficult to leave it as a platform.

Thats not to say i haven't used Linux in the past i have, mostly though on the server side rather than the desktop.

If business were to start moving over to Linux (and i really mean services business, that work in offices) then i would look into it far more on the desktop but i just dont have the time in my personal life to invest in Linux to any great extent at the moment.

But as more and more software developers say goodbye to Windows, consumers may follow them fairly quickly.

No they wont, Windows is not going anywhere on the desktop it will remain the most dominant OS for many years to come as so many business are tied into it and business are very very conservative when it comes to tech on the whole and to be honest so are consumers. Windows lost out on Mobile because it came late to the smart phone OS party.

Its not some other OS challenging Windows on the desktop that is the danger to MS but rather the increasing move to other types of platform, namely Web & Mobile.

[dilettante]

Well I have one client with no Windows servers left and two Windows PCs. Everything used by office staff is ChromeBooks and ChromeBoxes and the warehouse staff uses Android tablets. Another client is down to half Windows and half ChromeOS. I think the writing is on the wall.

[Shaggy Hiker]

We are all Windows with no realistic chance of switching in the forseeable future. I think the writing is on the wall.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Well I have one client with no Windows servers left and two Windows PCs. Everything used by office staff is ChromeBooks and ChromeBoxes and the warehouse staff uses Android tablets. Another client is down to half Windows and half ChromeOS. I think the writing is on the wall.

What type of business do you provide software to though? as you seem to be looking at your narrow experience and extrapolating what will happen generally. The types of businesses i have produced software for would find it very very difficult if not impossible to move to Linux currently.

Firstly as all the business software they have purchased and use to run there business on a daily basis only works on Windows, and secondly even if they could find alternatives on Linux the retraining costs would be massive.

Finally having worked in these types of companies (as well as software providers) i know from experience they are very tied into Microsoft and very conservative about moving to anything else.

I am not saying that's the same for all businesses, and i would say in particular those business who are not big Word processor and office users will find it easiest to move away form the Windows environment if they so choose.

[dilettante]

Most of these are small municipalities (towns, townships) and small companies in minerals and petroleum exploration and mapping. I agree that being smaller can make an organization more agile, so the bigger you are the more stuck in the past you can be. Inertia is a very real thing and nobody can just abandon investments.

However these outfits didn't change overnight either. They saw the writing on the wall when Windows 8 came along in 2012, and had already long before that given up on Microsoft in the mobile space due to the Windows Phone fiasco that uprooted their investments in Windows Mobile.

The people in the biggest trouble will be those who held tightly to Windows XP until the bitter end and at this late date consider Windows 7 to be "new." Windows 7 makes a decent stopgap but you can't stop there. It is a temporary lifeboat at best and should be seen as a breathing space while efforts are underway to leave Microsoft behind entirely.

I really pity those with major stealth IT activity going on that relies on Office macros. Those people will really be stuck. They should have disabled VBA by Group Policy long ago:

Disable VBA in Office 2013

It is possible of course that Microsoft will be forced to mutate Windows 10 into something friendlier over time. It is already a significant improvement over Windows 8 and 8.1 as it is, but hopefully the upcoming major updates will take this a few steps further. So yeah, sitting back wearing blinders could possibly pan out.

But not everyone is willing to take that bet, and those who have moved on already would need a compelling reason to go back at this late date.

[techgnome]

Here's the trend as I see it from the prospective of a number of our clients - note: our clients involve some of the biggest Non-Profits out there, including local regional organization, to national organizations and even some international - the trend as I see it is that the "front-office" is going to mixed platforms - we're seeing more and more organizations that are going to a mixed environments with both Apple (usually the execs, or those on the go and need to be in the know) and Windows (more often than not, this tend to be the office workers). The Back-Office though still tends to be largely Windows Servers. Seeing that writing on the wall, we ported our front end architecture to a web-based one. So now we no longer care what the client system is... Linux, Windows, Apple, etc... if it has a modern webbrowser, it can "run" our app. We even have some configurations that also allow a mobile version of the data for smaller screens like on a phone. On the back end we only require IIS with ASP.NET installed, and SQL Server. Moist already have that as part of their network, so it's a matter of installation and configuration. (there are conversions and customizations also involved, but from a basic POV, that's the end of it.) IF they don't have that kind of structure, or for what ever reason, they are not able to self-host, then we also offer hosting services for them.

Soooo.... my extrapolation of my narrow point of view is that things are going to end up being a hybrid situation. Personally I think that's going to be the trend... the platform of the client become less and less important and the power is going to be on the back end server. It's almost a swing back to the mainframe days with terminals. Only the terminals in this case are going to be lightweight clients, either through mobile apps, or a web browser, or who knows.

-tg

[Shaggy Hiker]

We are starting to dabble in mobile technology on mixed platforms, which means web based apps. Our desktop systems will always be Windows until after I retire. I know the people making the decisions look at other things, they just reject them, and I don't even know whether they are allowed to make any decisions, let alone why they do (other players have some rules in place that impact what decisions are allowed).

However, I'd say that the games are still on Windows. People like to talk about productivity software, and that sells to lots of businesses, but anti-productivity software is also a pretty big driver for hardware and software.

[SJWhiteley]

I would rather spend time getting things done. Linux is great - if you like to bugger about with cars, and expect to purchase a car as a box of parts.

[dilettante]

Wow, there is a whole lot of living in the past going on in here.

The Web vs Apps Outcome

There was time when some people thought the future of mobile development was the web. That thinking was based on the fact that the web was a common platform across all types of device and that would be the only way to solve fragmentation. If you look at the ‘Web Technologies’ section at the bottom of this site you will see I was sceptical.

In practice, we all know apps have dominated. While Apple and Google have improved their web browsers, they haven’t put in as much effort to allow the browser access to APIs nor improve the user experience for web-based apps. However, I believe the situation has become even worse than this.

...

It’s ironic that the (web) platform that some people thought might solve the fragmentation problem has, arguably due to under-investment and lack of innovation by Google and Apple, become one that has security and fragmentation headaches.

This trend began about 2008 and has ramped up every year since then.

[Gruff]

There are industry standards that remain in place due to inertia. We run windows in our business because all of our customers and vendors use programs that are entrenched in that OS.

Everyone wants to communicate electronically these days so we have to be capable of sharing files formats. In engineering those formats are tied to apps that only run on windows.

I ran linux at home for a couple of years but eventually gave it up. There were no equivalents for the major programs I needed to use.

IMHO for windows to die out completely would require the majority of industry to drop all the software products they currently use at pretty much the same time. That doesn't seem likely.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Wow, there is a whole lot of living in the past going on in here.

This trend began about 2008 and has ramped up every year since then.

No, there's a whole bunch of working for a living going on here. I don't get to live anybodies utopian dream of how things should be or how they might be in the future.

[Gruff]

To Tope is to swill spirits. U-top-ian...

[dilettante]

I place my bets on the web for front end stuff. This may not strictly be for a web browser...

Webviews are even more vulnerable to attack than browsers are. JBOH, UXSS, and other flaws make pseudo-apps based on HTML and script running in a webview control very risky. Give it up and move to proper native code apps.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, that web thing is just a flash in the pan. It's sure to fade away.

[SJWhiteley]

No, there's a whole bunch of working for a living going on here. I don't get to live anybodies utopian dream of how things should be or how they might be in the future.

I'm with you, there.

I listen to a bit of the nobble-heads on NPR on the way to work, occasionally (no, not that I occasionally go to work, but, yeah). Some of the down right over-educated, stupidest people who think their technology is going to revolutionize society and the way we think: they may be a good idea for a niche, but they are really farming for some billionaire to give them a wad of cash to validate their idea.

To be honest, if it can't cook bacon, then what use is it? (Tumblr: pictures of bacon, pintrest: bacon and bacon related things, Facebook: 'look! I cooked bacon!', twitter: 'bcn!', yelp: bacon is 5 stars.)

[dilettante]

Such a fear-of-change driven bunch. And yet you'll rail against VB6 programmers for that. Bizarre, but not unexpected.

I don't think anyone is saying you have to change, just that the world is changing and some of us have moved with it. We can't all live in 1952 forever.

[techgnome]

I'm with you, there.

I listen to a bit of the nobble-heads on NPR on the way to work, occasionally (no, not that I occasionally go to work, but, yeah). Some of the down right over-educated, stupidest people who think their technology is going to revolutionize society and the way we think: they may be a good idea for a niche, but they are really farming for some billionaire to give them a wad of cash to validate their idea.

To be honest, if it can't cook bacon, then what use is it? (Tumblr: pictures of bacon, pintrest: bacon and bacon related things, Facebook: 'look! I cooked bacon!', twitter: 'bcn!', yelp: bacon is 5 stars.)

Someone recently referred to bacon as "the candy of meats."

-tg

[dilettante]

I listen to a bit of the nobble-heads on NPR on the way to work, occasionally (no, not that I occasionally go to work, but, yeah).

NPR definately has its share of problems. But I think their biggest problem is the way their world-view has narrowed to the Boston-D.C. corridor as they have crowded out many of their formerly more diverse commentators and show hosts.

I find it fascinating that people feel NPR has a "liberal" bias when they do things like regularly give free plugs to ScabCab ("Uber") and in general are pretty hostile to labor. If they weren't so gay-friendly you'd almost think the network hailed from deep down in Red State Country.

Perhaps in the wake of the next election we'll see some restructuring of thought on pet causes and alliances and eventually the positions of the two major parties.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Such a fear-of-change driven bunch. And yet you'll rail against VB6 programmers for that. Bizarre, but not unexpected.

I don't think anyone is saying you have to change, just that the world is changing and some of us have moved with it. We can't all live in 1952 forever.

What's with the passive aggressive stuff?

And while you're at it, how do you read that as fear of change? I have no fear of change, I have the reality that I write for the platforms at work. I don't choose those platforms, and not all the platforms are ones I would choose if I could choose, but they are the platforms at my place of employment. How long would I be employed if I decided to write for platforms that we don't have and have no realistic chance of getting in the next decade?

When the platforms at work change, I change. I don't whine about it at the time, and I don't spend the next decade and a half STILL whining about it.

[FunkyDexter]

Such a fear-of-change driven bunch

I don't think it's fear of change but rather just day to day business. I'm a contractor so I do whatever work the client wants. I'm actually seeing very little call for mobile app development at the moment. Web is by far the biggest market and desktop is still second. Actually, that's not quite the whole story, "Middle Tier" is very strong and that's sort independent of the other three.

I don't know why I'm not seeing more mobile demand but I'd hazard a guess that most companies still see it as a "nice to have" rather than their core business requirement. So they have a teams of web/desktop developers but when they need something done for mobile they just ask around the existing developers to see if anyone's got some skills they can tap into. It's not something they recruit for but having it on your CV might well get you past the post first in a neck and neck scenario. There certainly is a market for mobile but it hasn't dominated and doesn't seem to be pushing Web and Desktop out in the way you describe.

I think another factor may be that the nature of mobile app development is that it's a relatively few apps going out to massive numbers of users. That means if you happen to be in on one of the big hits you stand to make a shed ton of cash but it doesn't mean that there's a huge amount of work available.

Of course, that's entirely anecdotal and based on my somewhat narrow experience.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Of course, that's entirely anecdotal and based on my somewhat narrow experience.

I would say that its a fair assessment certainly in the UK, one thing i have noticed is there are now some specific Mobile App Software Houses around. In Manchester alone there are 5 or 6 that i have seen recently, when there were none only a few years ago, so there is obviously an increasing market, but for business software, which i know many of us here work on the push for Mobile is much less. There is some demand from our customers for instance but its not big yet.

Such a fear-of-change driven bunch

Not at all, i would be happy to do some more native mobile app development, its just not in the road-map at my work at the moment. When it does come up, then i will likely be involved in the project.

Dillitente i get the impression you work for yourself, which is very different from working for someone else.

[Atheist]

Using and developing on Linux is such a joy compared to Windows, so yes, I have semi-converted. I still use Windows for gaming.

Edit: I want to mention I still have the displeasure of using Windows for work.

[techgnome]

Until I blew the PSU I'd been running Kubuntu 14.something on a box at home. No real complaints there from me. Once I installed everything I needed, Libre Office, MySql, Apache, an assortment of time-wasting games, Chrome, Aptana Studio, I was pretty much good to go. Installed Eclipse and Java at one point to learn some Android development. I really need to get a new PSU for it. It's kinda kiling me just stitting there. doing nothing. I'm sure its judging me.

-tg

[Gruff]

If one of my PCs gets uppity it finds itself in the recycle bin.

[FunkyDexter]

Doesn't that create an infinite recursion?

[penagate]

I used various RHEL derivatives as my primary desktop for many years (Fedora, CentOS, Scientific). Now I use a MacBook, with Scientific Linux 7 VMs for development. Every now and then I dig up Windows just to see what my work looks like in the latest Internet Explorer.

[penagate]

Webviews are even more vulnerable to attack than browsers are. JBOH, UXSS, and other flaws make pseudo-apps based on HTML and script running in a webview control very risky. Give it up and move to proper native code apps.

This is completely wrong. On what basis would you say a native code application is more secure than a properly sandboxed web application?

The current state of affairs may not be ideal, but it never has been. There is never a silver bullet. However, I have no desire to maintain native code ports for Windows, Linux, Mac OS, iOS, Android, and whatever other operating systems there are.

[Atheist]

Atheist - What flavor(s) of Linux do you use?

I use Ubuntu. Altough since my upgrade from Windows 7 to Window 10 resulted in not being able to boot the computer at all, and I accidentally formatted the wrong disk... I currently have no linux installation I will fix that soon!

[CVMichael]

I currently have no linux installation I will fix that soon!

Try Linux Mint Cinnamon! If you have /home as a separate partition then there is nothing to loose
Mint is based on Ubuntu, so all the apps you are used to work fine under Mint

[edit]
Actually, I just found out that you can add the Mint desktop to Ubuntu
http://www.howtogeek.com/103691/inst...top-on-ubuntu/

[Milk]

At home I'm still mainly using Windows although I also seem to have 3 Linux boxes on the go at the moment. At work I use XUbuntu with the occasional foray into Windows land. We are a small machine vision research company so I guess we are pretty niche. Over the last 3 years we have found ourselves using Linux more and more with frameworks such as ROS. Windows is still the dominant platform for us but not nearly as much as it was 6 years ago when we started.

I quite like windows 10

[Atheist]

Try Linux Mint Cinnamon! If you have /home as a separate partition then there is nothing to loose
Mint is based on Ubuntu, so all the apps you are used to work fine under Mint

[edit]
Actually, I just found out that you can add the Mint desktop to Ubuntu
http://www.howtogeek.com/103691/inst...top-on-ubuntu/

I might try it!