VB6 is DEAD!

[Shaggy Hiker]

one of them I even posted in the CodeBank here and that specific one was just a pet project.

So...you were coding a pet were you? Did you decide to use Moti's girlfriend code in animal-brain mode?

[Niya]

So...you were coding a pet were you? Did you decide to use Moti's girlfriend code in animal-brain mode?

No but its a good idea....I'll have to hit up Moti and see what we could work out

[Shaggy Hiker]

If you can get a look at his code, do share. A few of us asked repeatedly in the AI thread, but he never offered us anything other than the book. After seeing the videos, it was clear that the code was doing something....but Moti only knows what.

[Niya]

Now I'm really curious. Must be pretty revolutionary code if he is keeping it locked down so tight. Wonder if his AI gf can cook....

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Now I'm really curious. Must be pretty revolutionary code if he is keeping it locked down so tight.

Shhh, its top secret military grade A/I it even has an animal brain.... although that is kinda sounding like a Cyborg now!!

Wonder if his AI gf can cook

This may well be in the new edition of Battle Programming (Blaze Edition) that i am so looking forward too.

[FunkyDexter]

I pre-ordered

[homer13j]

VB6 is not coming back. Get over it.

I said the exact same thing about Lebron James.

[hamza.saleem]

Haha Lol, Moving to vb.net bye bye vb6 you are no more..

[Niya]

Haha Lol, Moving to vb.net bye bye vb6 you are no more..

Good idea but don't think its going to be as easy as that. It will take you a while to learn your way around(took me about a month) but when you do, you'll wonder why you didn't move across sooner. You won't regret changing in the end. This is a fact!

[Niya]

[SJWhiteley]

Zombie movies are just past peak of their return; perhaps VB6 is trying to ride the wave?

[Niya]

Good name for this new VB6 axixdj wants so bad.......ZombieVB. I could already picture the logo for it

[Shaggy Hiker]

I know WP doesn't want to hear about Tiobe, but since it has been put forward as an indication of the popularity of VB6, I have some bad news for the fans: I just talked to one of the guys there, and (Visual) Basic most certainly does not indicate VB6. However, he said that VB6 should clearly have its own category, and so he told me to expect it next month. He also made it fairly clear that the VB6 fans are going to be very disappointed. Apparently, VB6 is a small fraction of the (Visual) Basic category.

[jayinthe813]

I know WP doesn't want to hear about Tiobe, but since it has been put forward as an indication of the popularity of VB6, I have some bad news for the fans: I just talked to one of the guys there, and (Visual) Basic most certainly does not indicate VB6. However, he said that VB6 should clearly have its own category, and so he told me to expect it next month. He also made it fairly clear that the VB6 fans are going to be very disappointed. Apparently, VB6 is a small fraction of the (Visual) Basic category.

So this is what the news means when they talk about the "1%"

[Niya]

He also made it fairly clear that the VB6 fans are going to be very disappointed. Apparently, VB6 is a small fraction of the (Visual) Basic category.

I'd be shocked if this shocks anyone. Clearly there is more wisdom in the crowd than the VB6 fanatics would have us believe.

[Niya]

I think all the ranting and raving by Fatina, Carlos, Olaf and axisdj may have left the impression that there is a huge body of discontent among developers over the abandonment of VB6 by MS when the truth is the world has moved on. There are only a handful of vocal members. I was among the voices of discontentment but had to make a decision and when I saw how good VB.Net I was pretty much done with all the crying and moaning. Most of the world apparently did the same. There are only a handful of stubborn hold outs who continue to be annoying with their wailing.

[dee-u]

Guys, you can offend VB6 anytime but could you please be more careful on touching other peoples belief?

[Niya]

Guys, you can offend VB6 anytime but could you please be more careful on touching other peoples belief?

What do you mean ?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'd be shocked if this shocks anyone.

I will be shocked if you are shocked that this shocks anyone.

[Niya]

I will be shocked if you are shocked that this shocks anyone.

How shocking!!!

[si_the_geek]

The references to religion in the last few posts weren't nice to religious people, so I've removed them.... please keep this to one divisive topic!

I know WP doesn't want to hear about Tiobe, but since it has been put forward as an indication of the popularity of VB6, I have some bad news for the fans: I just talked to one of the guys there, and (Visual) Basic most certainly does not indicate VB6. However, he said that VB6 should clearly have its own category, and so he told me to expect it next month. He also made it fairly clear that the VB6 fans are going to be very disappointed. Apparently, VB6 is a small fraction of the (Visual) Basic category.

Based on some of the sensible discussion of their category definitions over the last couple of months it doesn't surprise me that VB6 is a marginal player... I look forward to seeing what the actual situation is.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Guys, you can offend VB6 anytime but could you please be more careful on touching other peoples belief?

The references to religion in the last few posts weren't nice to religious people, so I've removed them.... please keep this to one divisive topic!

Wow i had a post removed, i think that is a first.

Apologies Dee-U, i didn't see what posts where after mine (if there where any) but my post was not meant to be a pop at religion, more the fervor of those supporting the return of VB6, and a play on Homers Lebron James comment.

[axisdj]

I know WP doesn't want to hear about Tiobe, but since it has been put forward as an indication of the popularity of VB6, I have some bad news for the fans: I just talked to one of the guys there, and (Visual) Basic most certainly does not indicate VB6. However, he said that VB6 should clearly have its own category, and so he told me to expect it next month. He also made it fairly clear that the VB6 fans are going to be very disappointed. Apparently, VB6 is a small fraction of the (Visual) Basic category.

Actually I am looking forward to the new refined results. I don't really care if vb6 is popular. What I do care about is my code base/products. My goal in the near future is still to find a solution to porting my project so it can continue to evolve and make me a living.

There is even more un certainty now about which direction to go. My ideal solution is either OLAF's new ide/compiler or a binding to Lazarus. Even a binding to .net when it becomes NATIVE will not be out of the question. The future of desktop has become fuzzy.

In no terms do I want people not to tell me the truth, that would be insanity. If vb6 is the 100th most popular on TIOBE, it really does not matter to me, I still have a product to evolve.

Thanks
Pleasant day!
WP

[Shaggy Hiker]

Actually I am looking forward to the new refined results. I don't really care if vb6 is popular. What I do care about is my code base/products. My goal in the near future is still to find a solution to porting my project so it can continue to evolve and make me a living.

There is even more un certainty now about which direction to go. My ideal solution is either OLAF's new ide/compiler or a binding to Lazarus. Even a binding to .net when it becomes NATIVE will not be out of the question. The future of desktop has become fuzzy.

In no terms do I want people not to tell me the truth, that would be insanity. If vb6 is the 100th most popular on TIOBE, it really does not matter to me, I still have a product to evolve.

Thanks
Pleasant day!
WP

Good post. That seems like a pretty clear-eyed view of the situation. I wish the future of the desktop was more clear than it is....but that wish isn't coming true anytime soon.

[dilettante]

I would not be surprised in the least if Tiobe's re-jiggered metrics show that a ton of what they had been counting as "Visual Basic" turns out to be some VB.Net they couldn't isolate out plus a lot of VBA.

But then "jiggering" seems to be what they are best at, otherwise it is hard to fathom how C, C++, Objective-C, a hatful of bizarre *nix-centric scripting languages, F#, etc. consistently rank so high.


I suppose you could turn it around. Based on their sources of statistics these might really be rankings of "languages having the most groaning and moaning and cries for help."

[dilettante]

I wish the future of the desktop was more clear than it is....but that wish isn't coming true anytime soon.

Once Windows 9 gets close to RTM we may be able to breathe a sigh of relief about that.


Desktop PCs and the Windows desktop: Endangered species? has a more positive outlook than the title suggests.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

What I do care about is my code base/products. My goal in the near future is still to find a solution to porting my project so it can continue to evolve and make me a living.

out of interest what is your application? i am sure you must have said before but i missed it!

[Shaggy Hiker]

I would not be surprised in the least if Tiobe's re-jiggered metrics show that a ton of what they had been counting as "Visual Basic" turns out to be some VB.Net they couldn't isolate out plus a lot of VBA.

But then "jiggering" seems to be what they are best at, otherwise it is hard to fathom how C, C++, Objective-C, a hatful of bizarre *nix-centric scripting languages, F#, etc. consistently rank so high.


I suppose you could turn it around. Based on their sources of statistics these might really be rankings of "languages having the most groaning and moaning and cries for help."

Quite so, except for Objective-C. That's a closed ecosystem and I would expect it to rank fairly high. The other languages (with the possible exception of C and maybe C++) are generalist languages that you can use to write apps for several different platforms, so people can move from one to another. If you write in Objective-C, you are probably almost exclusively focused on that. This has always been a quirk with Apple. For a long time, Apple could bill itself as the most popular computer, because Apple sold more than any other computer company. Of course, the PC was VASTLY more common than Apple, but there were so many ways to buy/build a PC that no one company could match the sales of the sole-source Apple. Similarly, Objective-C might always rank high.

I also think that C and possibly C++ could be elevated for the same reason. You can use C to code for some highly specialized hardware, such as the PIC line of microprocessors. It may also be used for embedded systems more than any other language. So, there could be whole sectors of programming that are essentially C-only domains.

What baffles me is the large monthly swings seen in the graphs of pretty much every language. That may just indicate the variability around the count, but those jumps can be pretty big month-to-month.

There is also the possibility that the more complicated and difficult the language, the more resources there will have to be to help people. The same argument has been made in this forum to argue about the number of threads created in the different VB forums.

[Shaggy Hiker]

out of interest what is your application? i am sure you must have said before but i missed it!

It sounds like control of widely used, but very specialized hardware used in theatrical productions. A niche market, but not a small niche market.

[axisdj]

out of interest what is your application? i am sure you must have said before but i missed it!

It is Stage Production (Concerts)/Theatrical/Nightclub/Architectural lighting control.

Different branches of the software controls different aspects.

Also do Radio Automation Software.

WP

[Niya]

It is Stage Production (Concerts)/Theatrical/Nightclub/Architectural lighting control.

Different branches of the software controls different aspects.

Also do Radio Automation Software.

WP

This is your cause for all this ruckus over VB6 ? VB6 is hardly the only language suitable for this kind of thing. In fact, this kind of thing would probably have a much cleaner implementation in C moreso than any other language.

[axisdj]

This is your cause for all this ruckus over VB6 ? VB6 is hardly the only language suitable for this kind of thing. In fact, this kind of thing would probably have a much cleaner implementation in C moreso than any other language.

My focus is GUI? why would c be better suited, which IDE would you recommend? Not sure I understand, can you expand.

Thanks
WP

[Niya]

My focus is GUI? why would c be better suited, which IDE would you recommend? Not sure I understand, can you expand.

Thanks
WP

You said your app does lighting control so I imagine that you're interfacing with hardware, perhaps some sort of controller through a COM port or something. What I'm saying is that it may have been better if you wrote all that in C/C++ instead and created a DLL which you can then call from your VB6 program. It would certainly make a rewrite easier if you used VB6 to develop the GUI since the meat would actually be in a DLL. VB6 is kinda clumsy and outdated when it comes to talking to hardware anyway.

[axisdj]

You said your app does lighting control so I imagine that you're interfacing with hardware, perhaps some sort of controller through a COM port or something. What I'm saying is that it may have been better if you wrote all that in C/C++ instead and created a DLL which you can then call from your VB6 program. It would certainly make a rewrite easier if you used VB6 to develop the GUI since the meat would actually be in a DLL. VB6 is kinda clumsy and outdated when it comes to talking to hardware anyway.

That is how it works now, hardware communication through c++ DLL. The GUI code is WAY more complex than the hardware stuff. Hardware code is only about 5%, 95% GUI

WP

[Nightwalker83]

That is how it works now, hardware communication through c++ DLL. The GUI code is WAY more complex than the hardware stuff. Hardware code is only about 5%, 95% GUI

How can a GUI be more complex than the hardware stuff?

[Niya]

That is how it works now, hardware communication through c++ DLL. The GUI code is WAY more complex than the hardware stuff. Hardware code is only about 5%, 95% GUI

WP

Well instead of crying over the doom of VB6 maybe you should start rewriting your GUI in Java. I think Java is probably the safest bet if you're paranoid about your language and development tools being abandoned by their creators. Java is the most cross-platform of all existing runtimes, it was a very large user base, it has been around since before VB6 and as far as I know and its still being updated so its very mature and very entrenched in IT culture so it's probably going to survive for a very long time.

I myself am considering learning Java one day as a safety net given the recent surge of popularity of mobile devices and MS's lack of progress into that market. If MS doesn't get a handle on this soon, Windows developers might find themselves an endangered species.

How can a GUI be more complex than the hardware stuff?

Well assuming he didn't write the DLL then from his perspective it would be more complicated as he didn't have to wrestle with all the issues of low level hardware communication himself. If he did write it himself, well it must be very unsophisticated hardware.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

It is Stage Production (Concerts)/Theatrical/Nightclub/Architectural lighting control.

Have you thought about using Web Services to wrap the c++ dll and provide an interface to them that you can then talk to via a web front end? (you could wither host the web app your self or provide it as a locally running intranet app.)

If it was me i would probably be looking along those lines, re-writing in another desktop language just seems like a lot of work for potentially the same problems a few years down the line. (and if Win9 supports the VB6 run-times then your app will work for a while yet on desktops)

While non of us know the future, i would bet on the web being around far longer than the current desktop.

[Shaggy Hiker]

How can a GUI be more complex than the hardware stuff?

A good GUI is almost always the most complex part. Interacting with hardware is relatively easy unless you have to discover the protocols yourself. Presenting that data in a pleasing fashion, and making the interface easy to work with is a very complex subject that usually involves lots of trial and error to get right. For DB front-end types of apps, I generally find that the GUI is where I spend about 90% of my time. When working on robotics code, I was spending more time with the logic, but even then it was only about 50-50.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well assuming he didn't write the DLL then from his perspective it would be more complicated as he didn't have to wrestle with all the issues of low level hardware communication himself. If he did write it himself, well it must be very unsophisticated hardware.

Oh come on. Low level hardware stuff is trivial. It HAS to be trivial. Even if you look at some hardware as complex as an x86 CPU, there are only a couple hundred instructions. Interacting with the wet-ware at the keyboard is going to take far more time. Consider the simple case where you have a light with variable brightness. At most, the hardware interface is an on/off and a level. Most likely, it is even less than that. So, you might have an address and a couple more bytes. Meanwhile, the range of alternatives you have to interact with the user are as numerous as your imagination will allow. You could have a radio button and a NumericUpDown control at the low end, or you could have a custom-drawn 3D knob control controlled by mouse, keyboard, joystick, or nose-tracker (MS did create such a thing, but it got killed off before ever seeing the light of day).

[Niya]

Dealing with hardware is never trivial. Getting it to respond to code is but getting to behave in a specific way according to the needs of a client will always lead to some gotchas. Even with relatively simple hardware like pole displays, I've found some measure of frustration trying to get them to do something interesting even with the full documentation at hand. I succeeded but was surprised that I wasn't able to do exactly what was asked of me in a couple minutes. There's always some quirk you have to work around.

axisdj is talking about controlling lighting in a room and yes it might be simple to turn it on and turn it off with a simple call but just wait till clients start asking you to make the lights dance or to respond to movement. You're gonna find yourself running into quite a few quirks I'll bet.