VB6 is DEAD!

[Niya]

Wait. So are you a male or a female.

lol you're really asking me that after all this time ?

I'm male.

We had to agree on something, sooner or later

I've never trolled this community deliberately or otherwise. There's a difference between trolling and pointing out ridiculous notions posited by other people.

[Schmidt]

So, what about it Shaggy...

(not that I have any hopes but) ...anyone in your camp, who's "calling the kids home for supper"?

Oops, before i forget...

[Insults]: 3 (#291, #292, #293)
[Didn't get it]: 4 (#295, #298)
[Make-Fun-Pictures]: 2

Olaf

[Carlos Rocha]

I'm male.

If you say so

I've never trolled this community deliberately or otherwise. There's a difference between trolling and pointing out ridiculous notions posited by other people.

[dclamp]

lol you're really asking me that after all this time ?

I'm male.

Duly noted: Do not make sexual advances toward Niya

[Shaggy Hiker]

So, what about it Shaggy...

(not that I have any hopes but) ...anyone in your camp, who's "calling the kids home for supper"?

You're going to have to explain that one to me. I admit that I'm a bit behind the times, but I have no idea what that slang means. I can't even guess what you are asking me there. At least not a serious guess.

[Insults]: 3 (#291, #292, #293)

Comparing somebody to Grace Hopper is an insult? In what world?

[Didn't get it]: 4 (#295, #298)

I don't either.

[Make-Fun-Pictures]: 2

Which ones?

Just out of curiosity, is there anything you can point to that I have written that is derogatory towards vb6?

[dclamp]

Have there been any extractor fan jokes recently?

[Niya]

I'm being a dick because I think all this hoopla over VB6's revival and the .Net hate is a bunch ridiculous nonsense ?

[dclamp]

I vote in favor of closing this thread...

[Carlos Rocha]

I vote in favor of closing this thread...

Is that enough for you? why not ban everyone that is in favor of Classic VB? and why not promote to moderator every .NET lover?
The problem is...who will you guys try to make fun of after that?
Maybe if you, .NET prisoners, wont start bashing around in VB6 threads things would not go this far. Get a life

[henrytrs35]

Somebody's mad :3 but he's got a point though

[dclamp]

Is that enough for you? why not ban everyone that is in favor of Classic VB? and why not promote to moderator every .NET lover?
The problem is...who will you guys try to make fun of after that?
Maybe if you, .NET prisoners, wont start bashing around in VB6 threads things would not go this far. Get a life

Ummm... ok.

[Niya]

I vote in favor of closing this thread...

This thread has actually become quite funny. I vote for it to stay opened and provide us with some more amusement.

Is that enough for you? why not ban everyone that is in favor of Classic VB? and why not promote to moderator every .NET lover?
The problem is...who will you guys try to make fun of after that?
Maybe if you, .NET prisoners, wont start bashing around in VB6 threads things would not go this far. Get a life

Aww...how cute. You're feeling threatened. Why would we want to ban you. You guys are nuts. At this point, I don't think anyone with a good head on their shoulders would actually take you guys seriously so banning you or closing this thread would really have no point. If anything, your rants would serve as entertainment.

[dclamp]

Is that enough for you? why not ban everyone that is in favor of Classic VB? and why not promote to moderator every .NET lover?
The problem is...who will you guys try to make fun of after that?
Maybe if you, .NET prisoners, wont start bashing around in VB6 threads things would not go this far. Get a life

[Niya]

[Niya]

Is that enough for you? why not ban everyone that is in favor of Classic VB? and why not promote to moderator every .NET lover?
The problem is...who will you guys try to make fun of after that?
Maybe if you, .NET prisoners, wont start bashing around in VB6 threads things would not go this far. Get a life

[Niya]

Is that enough for you? why not ban everyone that is in favor of Classic VB? and why not promote to moderator every .NET lover?
The problem is...who will you guys try to make fun of after that?
Maybe if you, .NET prisoners, wont start bashing around in VB6 threads things would not go this far. Get a life

[FunkyDexter]

Fatina's gender isn't an issue. Behaviour is and I would say that I've seen a marked improvement in Fatina's since returning to the forum. While he or she may still not make the most reasoned arguments, I don't see her throwing wild insults around anymore and think she should be entitled to the same courtesy in return.

[dclamp]

That is the moderator in your speaking. I like it.

[FunkyDexter]

Nope, I'm not a mod in ChitChat (and I'm not sure I'd want to be). But I did think things were getting a little personal and thought soneone ought to say something. Particularly as Fatina didn't seem to be in here defending herself.

I like that CC debates can get a bit "robust" but there's a point at which banter crosses into rudeness and I thought we were sailing a little close.

[dclamp]

Nope, I'm not a mod in ChitChat (and I'm not sure I'd want to be). But I did think things were getting a little personal and thought soneone ought to say something. Particularly as Fatina didn't seem to be in here defending herself.

I like that CC debates can get a bit "robust" but there's a point at which banter crosses into rudeness and I thought we were sailing a little close.

I respect you for that sir.

[FunkyDexter]

Ooh, I do like being called Sir. Let's have some more of that.

[dclamp]

Ooh, I do like being called Sir. Let's have some more of that.

Sir.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Fatina did iimprove, I just with she had given a bit of background. I actually always thought of her as female, though I recognized it was because the name was fa (which I overlooked) tina (which is a female name in the US). Since that was invalid considering the international nature of the forum, I tried to use gender neutral pronouns. However, once she said she was female, then that makes it easier. After all, there just aren't that many gender neutral pronouns, and "they" just sounds awkward in some sentences.


@Carlos: By this point, it doesn't mean a thing. Nobody is even attempting to have an argument or even a discussion anymore. I think that's what Schmidt was saying, too. Until these threads came up, the only discriminatory views in programming that I was aware of was C users looking down on VB as a toy language. That's been around since the 90s. As for MS abandoning you: Big deal, they abandon everybody sooner or later. Apple is even worse for that. It's just something that happens. I have an app based on XNA, which has also been abandoned/ignored by MS. The only difference is that it is the highest vote getter, has a viable open-source community advancing it, and MS hasn't explicitly thumbed their nose at the petition. None of that really matters, though, it's still abandoned at this point.

So, all you have left are people tossing chum (hoo-boy did I have a bad typo in that word, glad I caught it) in the water to get people riled up. There's nothing productive about it and there hasn't been...perhaps in this entire thread. That's the reason I'd suggest that it be closed, too. After all, nobody is debating anything. Nobody is trying to persuade anybody to change their position. Nobody is comparing languages, functionality, performance, suitability, or anything else that could be considered even vaguely constructive. It's all just chumming the water on both sides.

Would closing the thread silence anybody? It wouldn't silence anybody who has anything to say. The thread started with a lament about MS stating that it would not revive VB6. There is a viable thread by Schmidt over in....where...projects?....I can't remember the name of the forum...that is talking at least a little bit about how to move forwards. A constructive thread could be started on that subject here, though this is chit-chat and things tend to go in weird directions. But without something like what Schmidt started in that other thread, what's the point of any thread on VB6? If you aren't talking about how to move it forwards on your own (MS certainly isn't going to help), then aren't all threads on the subject some form of crying in your beer or venting your spleen over the wrongness of MS? And, since this isn't an echo chamber for that kind of view, you're going to get all kinds of replies, many of which don't agree with you. There are suitable echo chambers for MS bashing, or VB6 lamenting, this just isn't one of them.

I'd agree that this thread ought to be closed because there isn't a useful discussion and all we get is divisive vitriol being tossed out to rile people up.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Merge the two?

Why stop there? Merge ALL CC threads into the post race. The post race would become the ONLY thread in CC and would be even more sprawling and baffling than it already is.

[3com]

Buy Opel Corsa.

[Carlos Rocha]

@Chaggy,

Maybe "VB6 lamenting" is useless, but the reasons behind it gives MS victims the right to bash them. This thread is (was) about this, imo, untill the "usual suspects" started demoting VB6ers, trying to make fun of them while advocating .NET.
Ridiculous, to say the least. But it's ok, I'm done with it.

[Shaggy Hiker]

You have the right to bash MS even without this. It's going to get a response, though, so you shouldn't expect to do so in a forum of this nature without getting a certain amount of derision for it. If you don't want push-back for views like that, then there are plenty of places where you won't get any...but not here. This isn't a VB6 only forum, or even a VB6 majority forum. There are a wide variety of views on the subject here. The ones you call the "usual suspects" fall into that category because they happen to be a subset with one set of views just as the VB6 partisans are a subset with one set of views. Those who don't fall into either of those camps also have a set of views, but a set that means they have nothing to say on this subject, or don't want to get involved in it. There are other hot-button issues that various people chum the waters with at times, and you can always pretty much predict the fish that will bite depending on what bait is used. VB6, pro or con, is just another example (two, actually, as both the pro and the con will get different groups to respond). Other things, such as anti-Java, or anti-C, gets pretty nearly no response because the community here doesn't contain many people who would respond to either position.

On the other hand, very few people here have any impact on what MS does, so whining for or against ANY issue on here is just about responses. It generally changes nothing.

[Niya]

MS victims the right to bash them.

And finally we arrive at the heart of the matter.....the victim mentality. I guess a lot of people enjoy playing the victim which is why we get threads like this. Sorry guys, I just don't do the crying victim thing. Seems weak to me.

[ident]

I vote for this thread to be swallowed up by the post race. Can somebody get a moderator involved?

I don't think it really needs to be closed. Whats wrong with healthy disagreeing as long as it does not get heated and turns to insults.

I'l always remember going down to pc world the day after boxing day 1999/2000 to get a copy of VB6. Cost around £70 installed it, took it back as seemed faulty and they gave me a copy of C++ as a replacement. (i/we didnt know the difference.) memory's are a great thing. VB6 like MSN chat will always be good memory's. But that's it. Unless you have big money in current vb6 apps like IMB then there is no reason to really use vb6.

VB6 will run atleast till 2024, it's old like my cat was last week at 23 we had to put down. Good times and memory's but let's just move on.

[Carlos Rocha]

@Ident, it's not VB6 that matters, it's his killing in favor of the ****** .NET, which came, as some pointed out, to fight Java.
There's more than one reason to M$ decline, but this is certainly one of them. If not VB6 death in particular, .NET birth is for sure. Some just refuse to see what's right in front of them and keep advocating it's use as and intelligent thing to do. Go figure.

[dclamp]

I don't think it really needs to be closed. Whats wrong with healthy disagreeing as long as it does not get heated and turns to insults.

Yeah but its annoying hearing the illogical arguments that come from it. Typically from the pro VB6 side. Sounds like a broken record mixed with name calling

[Carlos Rocha]

Carlos, you confuse me a lot. Are you upset about the death of VB6 or the birth of .NET?

Isn't it the same thing? It was the birth of .NET that killed VB Classic.

EDIT: But I'm all against .NET, as I don't like Java or any other interpreted language, independently of Classic VB death.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Ok, that's got some meat on it. So, why are you so opposed to .NET? It isn't an interpreted language when it is run, it is only an intermediate language at one point in the middle. If it were truly an interpreted language, the performance would be horrible, which it is not. The JIT compiler does take some time, which can make for a slow iniital startup, but once JIT compiled, .NET appears to generally run faster than VB6 more often than not. Though that's only on trivial comparisons like math functions, because even VB6 didn't run as fast as VB6 on larger things like database access where VB6 had at least three different mainstream options to choose from (DAO, RDO, and ADO) with different performance on each.

There are some people who feel that they are vulnerable to decompiling, but I'm not sure that anybody in that camp has that good a claim. After all, there really isn't all that much that is original about any code, and all code can be decompiled. I seem to remember that my sister had written something that took apart VB6 apps for some purpose. It was a long time ago, though, and she may not have written it, and it might not have been taking apart VB6 apps, but the VB6 IDE (it was probably that, now that I think about it).

[Niya]

...why are you so opposed to .NET?

I've been looking for a sensible answer to this since the last million threads about this topic.

[dclamp]

What is VB

[Carlos Rocha]

Ok, that's got some meat on it. So, why are you so opposed to .NET? It isn't an interpreted language when it is run, it is only an intermediate language at one point in the middle. If it were truly an interpreted language, the performance would be horrible, which it is not. The JIT compiler does take some time, which can make for a slow iniital startup, but once JIT compiled, .NET appears to generally run faster than VB6 more often than not. Though that's only on trivial comparisons like math functions, because even VB6 didn't run as fast as VB6 on larger things like database access where VB6 had at least three different mainstream options to choose from (DAO, RDO, and ADO) with different performance on each.

Slow initial startup? that's it? no, it isn't. I still remember the first ATI control panel made with .NET. It was simply scaring!! "what is this, what did I do wrong, and only clicked that button...?". But it wasn't me, it was .NET fault. In the first opportunity I switched to Nvidia , naturally.

.NET is newer than the "old" Win32, so maybe it relies on faster technology, but the principal factor is that .NET steals all the resources for itself (as does MS Office) what leads to the speed impression you might have, but it's completely artificial. Don't you think that, had Classic VB been evolved till now, it would be a lot faster now than back in 2000? and less resource hungry than .NET? Please be serious if you answer to this.
I can understand Java popularity as a way to develop multi-platform stuff, but .NET???

Don't know nothing about DAO or RDO, but I use ADO in my language (not within VB) to import data from legacy databases. Nothing bad to say about it.
I now use Olaf's SQLite wrapper, exclusively. I believe it will be extended to PostgreSQL in the future, and that's all I need. In fact I never used SQLServer or Access databases, and never will.
I'm aware of ADO.NET, and maybe it's better than legacy ADO, but again, how would be ADO by now had it's development didn't stop?

.NET was a mistake, a big one, and Windows is suffering a lot because of that wrong move. C'mon, admit it, as M$ already did.

[sapator]

We know Fatina is actually a Greek word. Comes from Fato (meaning Take it all) and Ina(meaning inside) So, take it all inside!!...
Ok not true but close enough.

[3com]

XNA was abandoned by MS. I can't believe how much time and effort I put behind it and now it's not supported!

I suppose what I'll do is:

A) Move onto the next thing whenever it comes and
B) Build off of what I've already learned from programming in XNA

It is sad.
I can not understand why many programs to create video games, end up failing or being abandoned by their creators.
DivGames studio, FPS Creator, Torque3D; the latter two are still worked, but ....

The latest vesion of FPS called Reloaded includes support for LUA language, but not just been completed, and its support 64bit platform, still does not work on all computers.

[dclamp]

I stopped reading these posts. I am just commenting

[Shaggy Hiker]

Slow initial startup? that's it? no, it isn't. I still remember the first ATI control panel made with .NET. It was simply scaring!! "what is this, what did I do wrong, and only clicked that button...?". But it wasn't me, it was .NET fault. In the first opportunity I switched to Nvidia , naturally.

Poorly written code is poorly written code. It doesn't matter which language.

Don't you think that, had Classic VB been evolved till now, it would be a lot faster now than back in 2000? and less resource hungry than .NET? Please be serious if you answer to this.

Ok, here's the serious answer: I see no reason to think that VB classic would be a lot faster now than back in 2000. Why should it be? Both VB classic and VB.NET could improve on speed by improving the compiler performance. There are limits on that, of course, but neither language hit those limits and I have always felt that there was a reason for that. I have never bothered to confirm this, but I always felt that both VB classic and .NET accepted limits to some performance in exchange for making life a bit easier for the developer. For instance, it appears that both use some pointers (internally, of course) that focus more on safety than raw speed, which is a trade-off I have always been content with. I have also always assumed that MS held a position in regards to the trade-off of speed/safety that they haven't deviated from, and assumed that was why the speed was not as fast as it could have been. If that is even reasonably correct then there is no reason to think that any form of VB would get significantly faster than what has already been done because MS simply has chosen against the fastest speed in favor of greater ease of use.

Additionally, VB classic was not moving in the direction of increased speed. Instead, it was moving in the other direction when it comes to database access. DAO was considerably faster than ADO. ADO.NET is an improvement on ADO, certainly, but not an improvement up to the speed of DAO (though the comparison is no longer apples to apples, because ADO.NET can be VASTLY faster than either DAO or ADO if it is used differently, which it can be, but doesn't have to be). Especially in the area of database access, MS has not been attempting to improve performance, they have been diligently attempting to improve ease of use, and have been doing so since before VB6 hit the market. That hasn't slowed or stopped, with the result that you can be far more abstracted away in .NET than you could in VB6. Fortunately, you don't HAVE to be, as you still have all the underlying tools if you want them....and I do, because all the abstraction, while amazingly fast to turn into a working app, turns database work into a black box for lots of people.

Still, the fact remains that MS is not trying to improve speed in VB and never have been. I would expect that if VB Classic had been continued you'd be looking at lots of the features that have been added both with ADO.NET, then the EF, and so on. It would be quicker and easier than ever before to create a database driven app....you just might be able to create one without haveing the slightest idea what is happening. Heck, the EF will now create the DB for you, so you don't even have to create a table. So, NO: MS would have made VB classic slower, not faster, because they favored ease of use over speed. They clearly favor C++ for speed and VB for convenience.

I can understand Java popularity as a way to develop multi-platform stuff, but .NET???

You CAN understand it? I can't. As far as I can tell, when Sun came out with Java they promised the world and never delivered. People flocked to it for that cross-platform that they fell so far short on, and because it wasn't MS. There was LOTS of MS-bashing in the 90s. So, here's a language that is kind of like a proprietary C++ which promised a bunch that they couldn't deliver, which was sold as being offered up for standardization...then was taken back to locked-down proprietary. Sun went back on their promises a fair amount through the 90s and into the early part of the next decade. In the end, what did we end up with? What does Java offer that other languages do not? I can see JavaScript, even though I feel it is a proto-language that will be eventually replaced for actual writing much as higher level languages replaced ASM: There will come a time when you can still code in it, but nobody does except for specialized things.

Don't know nothing about DAO or RDO, but I use ADO in my language (not within VB) to import data from legacy databases. Nothing bad to say about it.

I used DAO exclusively with VB6. There were some websites that did head-to-head comparisons between DAO and ADO (possibly RDO, too), and DAO was considerably faster than ADO. Of course, it doesn't really matter. Database front-end apps rarely live or die on the speed of the database technology. Most such apps (and all of mine in VB6) spent most of their time sitting around waiting for the meatbag at the keyboard to press a key.

.NET was a mistake, a big one, and Windows is suffering a lot because of that wrong move. C'mon, admit it, as M$ already did.

Make your case. I don't see it as a mistake, and I don't see Windows suffering in any way because of it. I do see Windows suffering, but only because of the serious decline in PC sales and the significant rise in mobile platforms, which MS has done a feeble job of getting into. It was feeble from the start, though. After all, I got into .NET because it WOULD run on a PDA, while VB6 never did. PDA's went the way of the dodo in short order, of course, and that was the end of that (smartphones don't fill the niche that I was writing for with PDA's, though tablets will do so).

So, make your case.