[RESOLVED] The end of Visual Basic

[Nightwalker83]

Hi,

Yesterday, I was told by a friend of mine at school that they are no longer teaching Visual Basic there but instead moved over to teaching c#. That got me think could Visual Basic 2008 be the last version of Visual Basic ever? It seems to be losing favor in the business world in favor of languages such as c++, c#, etc.

Further more I was reading on wikipedia and there doesn't seem to be any mention of Visual Basic 2010 which, would be the logical choice since Visual Studios 2010 in the works.

Also, a members of this very forum have said that there companies don't seem to use Visual Basic as much as other programming languages.

Edit:

After doing some searching I found that VB2010 will be released as part of VS2010 but that doesn't change my question. Is Visual Basic use coming to an end commercially?

What are your opinions on this?


Nightwalker

[JuggaloBrotha]

Considering I've already coded in VB 10 (VS 2010) in beta 1 last year and they've made even more enhancements to it I'd say vb is alive and kicking and will continue for numerous versions to come.

[Nightwalker83]

If that is the case I wonder why a lot of companies are choosing to switch to other languages for the majority of their development?

[RobDog888]

Expect VS 2010 RC very soon this month and yes it does have VB in it still. VB is not going anywhere.
But thats just sad that a school is narrowminded and misguided in their blind following of the pack.

[Nightwalker83]

Expect VS 2010 RC very soon this month and yes it does have VB in it still. VB is not going anywhere.
But thats just sad that a school is narrowminded and misguided in their blind following of the pack.

Unless, it wasn't one student who gave me the wrong information. I will properly find that out at the start of next semester.

[techgnome]

If the majoroity of jobs in the local area are C#, then it makes perfect sense. Oddly, around here, VB is actually quite hot. That's because there are a ton of C/C++/C# developers... it comes and goes. It amazes me just how many non-C-based jobs there are around here.

-tg

[RobDog888]

VB jobs are gaining ground here in LA

Smart employers maybe are realizing that its the same framework which they are paying c# developers more for which they can get vb developers to do the same thing for less

[Nightwalker83]

Is it just the cost involved as to why companies prefer to hire vb programmers over c# programmers or does vb have other advantages?

[JuggaloBrotha]

Is it just the cost involved as to why companies prefer to hire vb programmers over c# programmers or does vb have other advantages?

VB can be a little faster to develop the same code, probably because the syntax is all english keywords instead of the beginning and closing brackets {} for everything.

I don't have any problems developing in c# but it does get very confusing at the bottom of a class file when you have this going on:

                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

It's very hard to tell which of those close an if block, which one closes a while loop, which one closes the function/sub and which one closes the class. I tend to label them with a line comment, but it seems like the c# IDE could put a //end while/if/etc automatically for every closing brace.

[Jenner]

Amen my fellow Juggalo

One of the best features of Vb.NEt is it's verboseness and the ease of which the IDE let's you zip through it. I'd be lost without End If, End While, End Sub, End Class...

[abhijit]

I have seen companies pushing towards C# as well.

Today search on dice yields 5420 results for C# listings, but 1351 results for VB .NET

[Shaggy Hiker]

I have used a variety of languages, including C++. I really liked the OO nature of C++, and was thrilled to see VB.NET show up and bring OO to VB. However, C++ is bad for reasons other than just all those silly semi-colons. The operators in C/C++ can make a complex bit fiddling operation look like line noise. That may actually be the reason that C# is so popular. After all, in nearly every specialized industry, jargon rules. That isn't because there is a natural need for specialized words, there is also a pack mentality. If you can't speak the language, you can't join the club. I suspect that some of the allure of the C-style syntax has to do with wanting to have the appearance of knowledge so that your work has an appearance of value beyond its actual worth (though the worth itself can be high).

My other thought is that the C-style languages were created by the SPHPT (the Society for the Perpetuation of Hunt and Peck Typists). If you have ever taken a typing course, you have been taught to keep your fingers on the home row. The F and J keys have bumps on them so that you can check that your fingers are on the right keys. The fastests keys to hit are those under your most dexterous fingers, with those in the row above being second (and then there is the reasoning behind the QWERTY keyboard layout, but that's another rant). Moving up two rows to the number keys is much harder for most normal typists, as you generally can't reach them without moving your hands (you can't reach by extending your fingers alone). Using the upper register of those keys is even more miserable, yet C-style syntax relies very heavily on upper register, top row, keys, and even more miserable keys like {, }, |, ! and ?, to which I can say @#$^%*!!!

C-Style syntax is simply slow. If you are spending considerable amounts of time thinking about what to write, the fact that the typing is slow may make little difference. However, that doesn't usually happen, in which case the C-style syntax could hardly be designed worse for people who are capable of typing with all their fingers.

[Nightwalker83]

VB can be a little faster to develop the same code, probably because the syntax is all english keywords instead of the beginning and closing brackets {} for everything.

Ah ok!

I don't have any problems developing in c# but it does get very confusing at the bottom of a class file when you have this going on:

                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

It's very hard to tell which of those close an if block, which one closes a while loop, which one closes the function/sub and which one closes the class. I tend to label them with a line comment, but it seems like the c# IDE could put a //end while/if/etc automatically for every closing brace.

Yeah, I noticed that when I was learning javascript and php as part of my web development course which I finished last year.

Edit:

I have used a variety of languages, including C++. I really liked the OO nature of C++, and was thrilled to see VB.NET show up and bring OO to VB. However, C++ is bad for reasons other than just all those silly semi-colons. The operators in C/C++ can make a complex bit fiddling operation look like line noise.

This is a bit off topic but what is the difference between c, c++ and c#? To me it seems to be the same language but each has something more to give than the last.

Edit II:

I'm in class at the moment and my lecturer explained the difference between the three c versions as basically an improvement on system security.

To put it bluntly c and c++ give you full access to a system without the security from hackers. Whereas c# allows you to do the same but has added security for the system because it uses framework.

[Shaggy Hiker]

C was the first, and didn't have any object oriented features. C++ was originally intended as an object oriented version of C. It has now become a standardized language in its own right, with a different standardization group from the C language. C# is basically a .NET version of C++. The syntax is the same, but C# is all managed code, and doesn't have some of the features that C++ has, such as multiple inheritance (which is a controversial bugger that interfaces largely replace).

[Nightwalker83]

Well, I think I can resolve this since it just seems to individual or company choice rather than Microsoft not continuing on with Visual Basic.

[gep13]

VB can be a little faster to develop the same code, probably because the syntax is all english keywords instead of the beginning and closing brackets {} for everything.

I don't have any problems developing in c# but it does get very confusing at the bottom of a class file when you have this going on:

                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

It's very hard to tell which of those close an if block, which one closes a while loop, which one closes the function/sub and which one closes the class. I tend to label them with a line comment, but it seems like the c# IDE could put a //end while/if/etc automatically for every closing brace.

This is totally down to personal preference!!

I actually prefer the braces in C# compared to If/End If, Using/End Using etc. There are so many built in features, and thrid party tools that make lining up these braces very easy, to class it as a problem is unfair in my opinion.

Gary

[JuggaloBrotha]

This is totally down to personal preference!!

I actually prefer the braces in C# compared to If/End If, Using/End Using etc. There are so many built in features, and thrid party tools that make lining up these braces very easy, to class it as a problem is unfair in my opinion.

Gary

If it was classified as a problem it'd be unfair in your opinion. All I said was that I don't have a problem then pointed out something about it that gets me confused frequently.

[Shaggy Hiker]

This is totally down to personal preference!!

I actually prefer the braces in C# compared to If/End If, Using/End Using etc.

Ah, you find them bracing!!

[gep13]

Ah, you find them bracing!!

ha ha

[Nightwalker83]

I have seen companies pushing towards C# as well.

Today search on dice yields 5420 results for C# listings, but 1351 results for VB .NET

A couple of days ago one of my programming lecturers said Microsoft are discontinuing Visual Basic in favour of C# in 2017.

[gep13]

And where did he get that from?

Gary

[Nightwalker83]

And where did he get that from?

Gary

I don't know! I'll ask him next class.

[gep13]

That is a good idea. You will need to get him to cite his reference, because everything I have heard states that VB.Net and C# will continue to be developed.

[abhijit]

A couple of days ago one of my programming lecturers said Microsoft are discontinuing Visual Basic in favour of C# in 2017.

I haven't seen anything from Microsoft that supports that statement.

[techgnome]

Hmm.... 8 years later, and that myth STILL persists? It's just that, a myth. It was started by some C# fanatics I'm sure, and was further reinforced by the lack of VB.NET examples in the early days of .NET on MSDN. I think it's fairly safe to conclude that the opposite is true. VB.NET is alive and well, and will continue to do so. This is the first I've seen a date attached to it. It's probably irrelevant anyways. We all know the world is going to end in 2012 any how.

-tg

[Nightwalker83]

He might not have even said Microsoft but in fact was referring to some local businesses changing over to c# from Visual Basic. Anyway, I'll ask him on Thursday.

[gep13]

He might not have even said Microsoft but in fact was referring to some local businesses changing over to c# from Visual Basic. Anyway, I'll ask him on Thursday.

Now that would be something completely different. A company deciding to only use one language going forward could mean that they are wanting some consistency across the development teams. For instance, in my work, we only code in C#.

Will be interesting to hear what your tutor was actually referring to.

Gary

[Shaggy Hiker]

2017?!?!?!

I would be astonished if MS was deciding what to drop or build seven years out.

[gep13]

That's a good point.

Gary

[dbasnett]

I have used a variety of languages, including C++. I really liked the OO nature of C++, and was thrilled to see VB.NET show up and bring OO to VB. However, C++ is bad for reasons other than just all those silly semi-colons. The operators in C/C++ can make a complex bit fiddling operation look like line noise. That may actually be the reason that C# is so popular. After all, in nearly every specialized industry, jargon rules. That isn't because there is a natural need for specialized words, there is also a pack mentality. If you can't speak the language, you can't join the club. I suspect that some of the allure of the C-style syntax has to do with wanting to have the appearance of knowledge so that your work has an appearance of value beyond its actual worth (though the worth itself can be high).

My other thought is that the C-style languages were created by the SPHPT (the Society for the Perpetuation of Hunt and Peck Typists). If you have ever taken a typing course, you have been taught to keep your fingers on the home row. The F and J keys have bumps on them so that you can check that your fingers are on the right keys. The fastests keys to hit are those under your most dexterous fingers, with those in the row above being second (and then there is the reasoning behind the QWERTY keyboard layout, but that's another rant). Moving up two rows to the number keys is much harder for most normal typists, as you generally can't reach them without moving your hands (you can't reach by extending your fingers alone). Using the upper register of those keys is even more miserable, yet C-style syntax relies very heavily on upper register, top row, keys, and even more miserable keys like {, }, |, ! and ?, to which I can say @#$^%*!!!

C-Style syntax is simply slow. If you are spending considerable amounts of time thinking about what to write, the fact that the typing is slow may make little difference. However, that doesn't usually happen, in which case the C-style syntax could hardly be designed worse for people who are capable of typing with all their fingers.

You are a brave man to even entertain thoughts that C doesn't sit at the right hand of God. May a crazed C-programmer charge up your sisters hoop skirt (Carnac). I miss Johnny

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well, my sister's husband certainly knows C, so your blessing may have come to pass.

[Nightwalker83]

Will be interesting to hear what your tutor was actually referring to.

I was right the first time! I spoke to my lecturer during lunch today and he said that he was told by a Microsoft develop at one of the developer conferences that Microsoft are planning to stop releasing/ developing Visual Basic. It is an unofficial thing yet so Microsoft may chane their minds.

[dilettante]

It is an unofficial thing yet so Microsoft may chane their minds.

That must be why nobody can find a single mention of this on the Web anywhere.

[gep13]

I was right the first time! I spoke to my lecturer during lunch today and he said that he was told by a Microsoft develop at one of the developer conferences that Microsoft are planning to stop releasing/ developing Visual Basic. It is an unofficial thing yet so Microsoft may chane their minds.

Do we know who this developer was?

I am still dubious about this.

Gary

[Nightwalker83]

That must be why nobody can find a single mention of this on the Web anywhere.

You don't say!

Do we know who this developer was?

I didn't ask even if I did he probably wouldn't tell me or even remember.

I am still dubious about this.

So am I but if it is true then it will reduce the number of languages we have to learn. Maybe they will combine C# and vb so the one language language can do what two did before.

[gep13]

So am I but if it is true then it will reduce the number of languages we have to learn. Maybe they will combine C# and vb so the one language language can do what two did before.

In my opinion, this is completely the wrong approach!!

You shouldn't be trying to learn one language over the other. You should instead by learning the Framework. i.e. what classes do what, and what methods are available on these classes etc.

Once you know what you want to do, and how it can be done, it is simply a matter of syntax, which once you know the basic rules, is not that difficult to flip between C# and VB.Net. Plus there are always samples in both languages in MSDN.

As for combining the two languages, there are very few operations that can only be done in one particular language anymore.

Gary

[Nightwalker83]

You shouldn't be trying to learn one language over the other. You should instead by learning the Framework. i.e. what classes do what, and what methods are available on these classes etc.

I agree! The Framework can't be that different if different at all.

As for combining the two languages, there are very few operations that can only be done in one particular language anymore.

So why have both?

[gep13]

The Framework is the same, regardless of the language.

The semantics of the language, i.e. curly braces, or If/End If, etc, come down to how things have been done historically, and some developers prefer one over the other. i.e. if you have done Java/C++ development in the past etc.

Gary

[JuggaloBrotha]

I agree! The Framework can't be that different if different at all.



So why have both?

Actually there's only 1 Framework (the entire thing was coded in c#) and all .Net languages use this one Framework. This is one of the fundamental reasons why .Net is the way it is. All .Net languages compile down to the same MSIL code that runs in the CLR, so when executing, your vb.net code compiles to the same MSIL code as your c#, J#, C++.Net, etc code does. vb.net and c# is only different (by syntax) to the developer and that's basically it.

[dilettante]

Actually there's only 1 Framework (the entire thing was coded in c#) and all .Net languages use this one Framework.

Not true: parts of it are C++, parts of it even in VB.Net.

Interestingly there is some VB code in the framework, the Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll is written in Visual Basic .NET, but that's the only bit I believe.

Nearly true though.

The actual compilers and most tools, the CLR, and big parts of the IDE are C++.

Not that much of that really matters much.


I'm still awaiting the Grand Reunification of .Net with Java. Then we might end up with a single language hybridizing Java and C#.