[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God

[5ms?]

Pat Condell. Anyone who states at the top of their page that they 'don't care about my opinion' and 'will offend me' pretty much precludes any chance of my bothering to listen to them. I gave his video about 5 minutes of my time (which I'd quite like back now) and it confirmed to me that his opinions were exactly what I'd expect from someone who kicked off with that header line. He's exactly the sort of self-righteously shrill proselytising atheist I was referring to previously.

Mind you, Ben Franklin was a bit of an idiot too. Seriously, who flies a kite in a thunderstorm? Only joking.

the top of his page,
QUOTE
I don't respect your beliefs and
I don't care if you are offended.
END QUOTE

Hmmm
Quite honestly,

Theists never respect your or my beliefs or care if you or I are offended!,
if they knock on your or my door,
and you or I say nicely "No Thank you, I'm not interested", do they go away, ah No No NO!
This is why I have the 3 time rill.

Theists quoting the Bible or Revelations at you and I,
Is that respecting your or my beliefs and caring if you or I are offended!?

Theists respecting your or my beliefs.
i.e

I think they are making progress actually.
Through 5 years of Catholic school the nuns just avoided all of these questions
(and beat the crap out of anyone who asked them).

Theists respecting your or my beliefs.
i.e

there are these 3 guys that stand in our town centre every single day shouting stuff
like "join us and worship jeesus" and "god will forgive you for your sins"
etc etc and I just think surely God would rather you just lived your life to the fullest rather
than wasting it standing in town all day preaching to people that are just trying to ignore you.

Theists respecting your or my beliefs.
i.e
Posting a thread like "[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God",
and then argue with your reply

pat condell will go away if you close the page, he will not knock on your door, he would not ask you a question and then argue with your reply, he would not beat the crap out of you for asking a question.

This confirmed to me, that his opinions, were exactly what I'd expect, honest, Sincere and truthful
from someone who kicked off with that header line.
+ that header line, says if you do not want the truth, close the page.

[OrdinaryGuy]

Interesting thread on a programming forum
I think this question comes down to age - teens or younger adults like to rebel, they don't like the existing system - which includes religion

My personal view is that there may be somethings beyond our perception as an organic species.. God to me, is simply what I don't perceive - which could be a whole lot or nothing at all.

[Nicelydone]

AHHHH! 322 posts later and of course several hours to read all of them - in one fell swoop.
Damn I wish Id been part of VBforums Prior to this great thread, among other reasons(great programming resource). I am going to have to post something on the subject with regards to responding to some of you!

For now my views, God is simply unsubstantiated by fact, theory or type science. Yea, there is the oceans of religious beliefs and certainties that people have. Just not enough for me for now. So it makes it quite difficult for me to go that way. However Ive had experiences in my life that albeit amazing and to me miraculous cant automatically mean there is a god. It simply means that some amazing coincidence has happened. And really, that's not too far fetched, considering the shier volume of people and events happening every second on this planet. To this thread, I'm open to both sides, very compelling, though I do already have a belief set that I work from thought Im not as closed minded as some - the miraculous events in my life.

To the big posters like NSA, FD, 5ms, zaza, and others (will edit). Some of you have amazing insight and either a great memory of what you have learned through life, or an uncanny ability to research the $HlT out of a subject and create grounds for debate. I am just blown away by some of you guys who are apparently religious history teachers(and would you believe some of the most heavily researched arguments on here come from the agnostics and atheists). Take note, I said SOME, not all, both sides have come in with some serious ammo.

Amazing read, thanks to all contributors! I will add here soon. However, as I said, I just read the whole damn thread, so there's about a hundred ways to go and another 30+ people to quote. Give me some time. Till then, please...Continue...Really...Please.

[OrdinaryGuy]

It simply means that some amazing coincidence has happened.

Alot of current scientific theory in quantum physics can't explain why tiny particles act irrationally. Some theories suggest an extra dimension, that is infinitely small to us...

Doesn't that mean we have a gap of understanding on the deeper logic behind our reality?

[Lord Orwell]

Alot of current scientific theory in quantum physics can't explain why tiny particles act irrationally. Some theories suggest an extra dimension, that is infinitely small to us...

Doesn't that mean we have a gap of understanding on the deeper logic behind our reality?

i'm kind of partial to the loop theory myself. It's like string theory but the string ends are connected. Supposedly it's what matter is made of at the quantum level.

[FunkyDexter]

5ms, the difference is that someone knocking on your door isn't trying to offend you. They may do so as a side affect but that's not their motivation. This guy, on the other, clearly lives to offend. Presumably because he thinks that makes him appear clever and important.

As an aside (not really about religion but something that's been bothering me for a while), there's alot been shouted lately about people's right to offend. We do, indeed, have a right to offend (and that's wonderful because it also gives us the ability to criticise without fear of reprisal) but if you're going to exercise it purely for the sake of exercising it then you're still a butthole. I have to say, this guy comes across to me as wanting to offend purely for the sake of it.

[Lord Orwell]

Is that respecting your or my beliefs and caring if you or I are offended!?

Of course, this is how religions are spread. And let's face it, you are more likely going to convert an athiest than someone who believes a different god or religion. They have most likely been brought up that way. I have a conspiracy theory about this: I think that the reason the catholic church is against birth control is it ensures more catholics will be born, thus overwhelming the opposition with sheer numbers. And speaking of Vatican City... Who paid for it? Do they get a tithe from every church in the world?

this guy comes across to me as wanting to offend purely for the sake of it.

sounds like about 2/3 of fox news talking heads.

[Jenner]

I guess Pat Condell's brand of comedy is just lost of some people. I'll admit, British comedy can be perceived as dry.

[Shaggy Hiker]

we have already established that i am a pedant

Wear the badge with pride, brother. I'm with you all the way.

Hmmm, would that make you a pendant-file?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'll take that with a twist of sarcasm and humour (giving the benifit of the doubt)as I’m most definitely sure you are not using profanity do describe me.

That would be best. I was actually just going for the alliteration, rather than any meaning.

[FunkyDexter]

I guess Pat Condell's brand of comedy is just lost of some people. I'll admit, British comedy can be perceived as dry.

I am a Brit and that's not dry or comedy. Can you find me a single gag in it anywhere? All I heard was a tirade.

would that make you a pendant-file?

I work just outside Portsmouth. Gag's like that could get me lynched, you know. (For those who don't get the reference, when the Sun newspaper started naming and shaming poedophiles a few years ago, Portsmouth residents got a bit confused and beat up a poedeotrician)

[Jenner]

I am a Brit and that's not dry or comedy. Can you find me a single gag in it anywhere? All I heard was a tirade.

I found "Ban the Burka" especially humorous:

"Most Muslims know full well that the burka has nothing at all to do with their religion... there's nothing in the Koran about women dressing up like Darth Vadar."

Come on, you gotta admit. That's funny. That could be a quote from any one of a dozen world class comedian's routines. I can picture George Carlin using that line right now.

[5ms?]

5ms, the difference is that someone knocking on your door isn't trying to offend you. They may do so as a side affect but that's not their motivation. This guy, on the other, clearly lives to offend. Presumably because he thinks that makes him appear clever and important.

No, Sorry!, FunkyDexter.
He says,

"I don't care if you are offended."

He's not saying "I'll try to offend you.",
And he didn't offend me.
He's voice his belief, but a Free Thinker, theists are offended by that, and Freedom of speech.
That's why we do not need "The One Law For All".
Down with "Free Thinkers" and "Freedom of speech" , abolish, abolish, abolish!.
A new law now!, "Sharia law".

I don’t think he is an extremist.

The last time I saw the doctor, she looked at my file.
“I see you’re a vegetarian. Is that for health or moral reasons?”

I’ve been asked this so many times, I’m ready for it now.

“Neither. I just do it to annoy people.”
“What?”
“Yes, at a dinner party or in a restaurant I like to be the person for whom special arrangements always have to be made, just to put everybody’s nose out of joint.”

I managed to keep a straight face, but I don’t think she believed me.

“Do you eat fish?”
“No.”
“Some vegetarians do.”
“That’s like saying some Buddhists worship Allah.”
“What about eggs?”
“Nope.”
“Cheese?”
“Sorry.”
“Isn’t that a bit extreme?”
“Depends what you mean by extreme. That skirt you’re wearing, would you say that’s extreme?”
“No.”
“Well, I wouldn’t wear it, not even for a bet. It’s too extreme for me.”

Actually, I only said the last bit in my head, but I still felt it counted.

And he says, on his "ORIGINAL SITE"

Actually, my problem is not with God, but with God's little helpers, the ones who take it upon themselves to police the rest of us on his behalf.

These people give religion a bad name, which, given its history, takes some doing.

They wear their ignorance as a badge of honour, and they hold very strong opinions about what other people should think.

Plus they’ve managed to insinuate themselves into a position where their beliefs are given equal weight with real ideas, and are allowed to affect our lives in all sorts of ridiculous ways.


If all this sounds like your cup of tea, please come along to the show and have a few laughs.
Alternatively, .............

On his CONTACT page

AN ADVANCE APOLOGY

I welcome e-mails, and I'm keen to hear everyone's opinion, but please don't be offended if I don't reply, as I'm now getting hundreds every day and it has become impossible to answer them all. For this reason please don't write me any long essays. I won't read them.

DID YOU SEE HIS FEEDBACK !!!
Theists.
W..o...w.

There love!, with respect!, and them trying!! not to offend, the Saints!!!.

All I can say is Wow!.
And now I know what to say to door knockers.


And his FAQ

Q: Why do you hate faith?
A: Why do you hate reality?

Q: You don’t know what it means to have faith.
A: I don’t know what it means to you, and I don’t want to know. That’s kind of the point.

Q: I live in the American Bible Belt, and I’m afraid of social repercussions if I tell people I’m an atheist.
A: Well, I guess you’ll have to spend the rest of your life living a lie. Good luck with that.


Q: No, seriously. People would treat me like some kind of leper.
A: Take it as a compliment.

Q:............................
A:............................

Q:............................
A:............................

Q:............................
A: OK, you win.

[5ms?]

I guess Pat Condell's brand of comedy is just lost of some people. I'll admit, British comedy can be perceived as dry.

British comedy, well, the gulf between the author of dry wit, and the person who doesn't get it, can be GR8!!.

[Lord Orwell]

British comedy, well, the gulf between the author of dry wit, and the person who doesn't get it, can be GR8!!.

I'm a fan of black adder, the original hitchiker's tv series, and a few others. I like my comedy like my martinis. The dryer the better.

[Shaggy Hiker]

(For those who don't get the reference, when the Sun newspaper started naming and shaming poedophiles a few years ago, Portsmouth residents got a bit confused and beat up a poedeotrician)

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[penagate]

I'm a fan of black adder, the original hitchiker's tv series, and a few others.

Hitchhiker's? I loved the book. Never saw (or heard) the TV or radio series.

Black Adder? Funny, but Rowan Atkinson got a bit tiresome. Stephen Fry is always amusing though.

[penagate]

"Most Muslims know full well that the burka has nothing at all to do with their religion... there's nothing in the Koran about women dressing up like Darth Vadar."

Come on, you gotta admit. That's funny.

I've heard funnier from schoolchildren.

[Lord Orwell]

I've heard funnier from schoolchildren.

funny you brought this up. A coworker just mutilated a joke trying to tell it to me and someone else. He's 17 and i heard the off color joke nearly thirty years ago. Some jokes never die, no matter how bad. It involved a guy sinking in quicksand and the lengths he was asked to go to to get pulled out. When he offered said lenghts to a final guy the guy said "sicko" and stomped him under. classic. literally.

[5ms?]

funny you brought this up. A coworker just mutilated a joke trying to tell it to me and someone else. He's 17 and i heard the off color joke nearly thirty years ago. Some jokes never die, no matter how bad. It involved a guy sinking in quicksand and the lengths he was asked to go to to get pulled out. When he offered said lenghts to a final guy the guy said "sicko" and stomped him under. classic. literally.

Don't know that one.

[5ms?]

I'm a fan of black adder, the original hitchiker's tv series, and a few others. I like my comedy like my martinis. The dryer the better.

black adder
original hitchiker's
martinis
dry martinis

[ddemetrius456]

If God exist, people who believe say God is the greatest. But i have come across many instances in my life where the so called God has been the greatest villain. God if surely exists then he takes pleasure by making people miserable so that they live in fear and pray for revival. If at all God exist and right now is listening, "shame on you!! God."

[EntityX]

ddemtrius456 is the second member I've seen in the past 2 weeks that are banned with only 1 post. I see the above post was edited by si_the_geek so I'm thinking it's probable that what was edited out got him banned.

God can be hard on his children sometimes but it is for their own good. He wants us all to learn our lessons. Actually God isn't ever hard on us but He has put laws in place and if we don't live our lives in harmony with those laws then we create our own suffering. The more aware we become and the more we are tuned in to His laws the happier we will be. We suffer because we fail to understand. "With all thy getting get understanding." Proverbs 4:7

[5ms?]

If God exist, people who believe say God is the greatest. But i have come across many instances in my life where the so called God has been the greatest villain. God if surely exists then he takes pleasure by making people miserable so that they live in fear and pray for revival. If at all God exist and right now is listening, "shame on you!! God."

You are a Proselytizing sinner,

Galatians 1:8 — “But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be anathema!" Then also, 1 Corinthians 16:22 — "If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be anathema."

So in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Excommunication!

In 2nd John vv. 10 & 11, "whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house [οικιαν, residence or abode, or "inmates of the house" (family)], neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds".

You are barred from participating, but would not be barred from attending.

[5ms?]

God can be hard on his children sometimes but it is for their own good. He wants us all to learn our lessons. Actually God isn't ever hard on us but He has put laws in place and if we don't live our lives in harmony with those laws then we create our own suffering. The more aware we become and the more we are tuned in to His laws the happier we will be. We suffer because we fail to understand. "With all thy getting get understanding." Proverbs 4:7

Yes.
Thank you very much god/si_the_geek.

[Lord Orwell]

can anyone explain why people lament "why are you doing this to me god" or say "god wouldnt' let that happen" even though his stepping in would kill free will. My free will lets me break your legs with a baseball bat or steal or rob or rape. What did the victim do to deserve what my free will let me do? If there is a god, the religion is wrong about what he's all about. He's either a controller or an ignorer. He can't be both.

[5ms?]

can anyone explain why people lament "why are you doing this to me god" or say "god wouldnt' let that happen" even though his stepping in would kill free will. My free will lets me break your legs with a baseball bat or steal or rob or rape. What did the victim do to deserve what my free will let me do? If there is a god, the religion is wrong about what he's all about. He's either a controller or an ignorer. He can't be both.

y...................

[5ms?]

God's hand is evident in ever thing.
So why lament?, I don't!!!
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.

[5ms?]

god makes you break my legs with a baseball bat, and makes you steal, and makes you rape.
Why mourn?

[5ms?]

god can be hard on as sometimes, but it is for your own good. He wants us all to learn our lessons.

[FunkyDexter]

I've been meaning to come back on this for some time but to spend enough time looking at Pat Condell's site in order to formulate a decent response was such a horrific prospect that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Stillsince the thread's wended it's way back up the forum I finally plucked up the courage.

I just thought I'd post a few quotes from his site:-

is religious belief a form of mental illness, or is it just a bit of fun ?

Is Jerusalem a holy city? Or is it a vortex of evil, a psychic energy drain feeding directly into the maw of Satan?

Don't get me wrong. I’m not saying religion doesn’t have its uses. Personally I turn to it whenever I want my intelligence insulted

Religion disapproves of original thought the way Dracula disapproves of sunlight.

after the mandatory bloodbath (we are dealing with religion after all)

Islam doesn’t stand for any nonsense. Actually I take that back. It stands for a lot of nonsense, like any religion

Now, are you really trying to tell me that this guy doesn't set out to offend? There isn't a single cogent argument or witty quip on his site. Just a series of insults. This is exactly the kind of guy who will argue that he must have the right to offend. Not because it gives him the ability to raise real concerns without fear of reprisal, though (which is why we must have that right), but rather he gets off on being offensive.

[mendhak]

If I were to start a thread and start saying that VB.NET is stupid, some VB.NET developers would get offended but some C# programmers will find it witty.

If I were to start a thread and start saying that people living in New Jersey are bad and list out a bunch of reasons, some people will get offended, and some will find it humorous.

He's doing the same thing with religious beliefs. You won't find it witty because, as in the other cases, you are taking it personally since it's an attack upon a reflection of your beliefs? Part of the point he's demonstrating (unintentionally perhaps) is that while it's OK to insult someone else's baseball team, it should be OK to insult someone else's beliefs. I didn't mention football teams because I know that can get you stabbed here.

[MartinLiss]

God's hand is evident in ever thing.
So why lament?, I don't!!!
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.

So you can do anything you want to because you're going to do it anyway?

[5ms?]

So you can do anything you want to because you're going to do it anyway?

No......!
Because it's gods will, you have to do it, like dee-u says,

How about everything that surrounds you? How about your breath? Are these things not convincing enough that someone great has made all of them?

god's hand is evident in ever thing.
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.
Even My breathing is not free will, it's gods will.

[5ms?]

I've been meaning to come back on this for some time but to spend enough time looking at Pat Condell's site in order to formulate a decent response was such a horrific prospect that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Stillsince the thread's wended it's way back up the forum I finally plucked up the courage.

I just thought I'd post a few quotes from his site:-

Gr...8 quotes.


Thank you very very much!

[5ms?]

If I were to start a thread and start saying that VB.NET is stupid, some VB.NET developers would get offended but some C# programmers will find it witty.

C# is lame, to be a programmer you need to program in Assembly, and to be a rill programmer then you need to program in binary.

[dee-u]

No......!
Because it's gods will, you have to do it, like dee-u says,

god's hand is evident in ever thing.
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.
Even My breathing is not free will, it's gods will.

I did mention those as evidences that God should exist. Please don't confuse the two things. We have our own free will and God is not suppose to control it. If you want to stop your breath then you may do so, God will not stop you, its your will.

If He controls our free will then our world should not have been a mess like it is now.

[5ms?]

I'm confused.

How about everything that surrounds you? How about your breath? Are these things not convincing enough that someone great has made all of them?

I did mention those as evidences that God should exist. Please don't confuse the two things. We have our own free will and God is not suppose to control it. If you want to stop your breath then you may do so, God will not stop you, its your will.

If He controls our free will then our world should not have been a mess like it is now.

So I made My breath, and of My own free will.
I'm convinced! that someone great made My breath, that someone is (Me!).

[zaza]

Nobody great made mendhak's breath. Surround yourself with that, and you too will be convinced that there cannot be a God.

[EntityX]

5ms don't be so shy about posting in this thread and come on I know you can do better than 4 consecutive posts.