[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God

[capsulecorpjx]

There is no Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy or Underpants Gnomes ... because it's something people made up. There is no evidence they exist.

Lets go a step further.

People used to believe sacrificing a humans appeased their Gods and made the harvest good.

People used to believe (and still do in some parts of Africa) that witches were among them.

People used to believe Left Handed people were sinners and should be killed (Catholic Church).

And another example, just to show that I'm not harping on Religion rather than blind belief:
The Communist Atheist used to believe the root of all problems were from Religion and free markets / upper classes.


People make things up that ARE NOT TRUE, and follow it with a blind zealotry. No matter their belief system.

Read Lord of the Flies, Jack the leader is fanatcism. Piggy and his glasses are reason, science, skepticism.

Couldn't the same be true for people's idea about God?

[penagate]

There is no Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy or Underpants Gnomes ... because it's something people made up. There is no evidence they exist.

[EntityX]

I'm not so sure about the Underpants Gnomes.

[Jenner]

I'm not so sure about the Underpants Gnomes.

They absolutely exist, they paint the brown lines on your underpants while you sleep...

[zaza]

There are many different types and qualities of religionists. You're generalizing when you talk about them. There are some religionists that think the way you are saying they do but not all. Einstein was a believer in God but he was also very scientific and precise in his thinking so you can't lump all religionists into one group and say they all think like such and such.

Agreed, but not the best example. Einstein was notoriously cagey about those sorts of things and never actually confirmed it one way or another. People often attribute his so-called belief to the fact that he once said "God does not play dice with the Universe"...but I can't help feeling that is a long way from saying "I believe in God"...it's just a phrase used to make a point.

Actually, my lab partner during my degree and PhD (physics) was a Christian fundamentalist and it never stopped him from being a good scientist. My point was that the community tends to act in a particular way and that path tends to lead the ignorant masses (not intended in a snide way), rather than them following the few who happen to have a more balanced view of things.

[capsulecorpjx]

Agreed, but not the best example. Einstein was notoriously cagey about those sorts of things and never actually confirmed it one way or another. People often attribute his so-called belief to the fact that he once said "God does not play dice with the Universe"...but I can't help feeling that is a long way from saying "I believe in God"...it's just a phrase used to make a point.

Actually, my lab partner during my degree and PhD (physics) was a Christian fundamentalist and it never stopped him from being a good scientist. My point was that the community tends to act in a particular way and that path tends to lead the ignorant masses (not intended in a snide way), rather than them following the few who happen to have a more balanced view of things.

Newton was very religious, and it limited his full potential.
But being religious doesn't mean you can't be a good scientist.

But it doesn't mean religion is true.

[Jenner]

God DOES play dice with the universe.... and they're loaded!

[dee-u]

But it doesn't mean religion is true.

Religions are true, they exists here and there but their beliefs may not be true or against the true teachings of God which is put in the Bible.

[capsulecorpjx]

Religions are true, they exists here and there but their beliefs may not be true or against the true teachings of God which is put in the Bible.

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

For example, God kills the first born of egypt to punish the pharaoh.

Now if the Bible really was the word of God, he wouldn't have killed innocent civilians to punish a leader.

See human beings as a species didn't realize group punishment is wrong until much later in our civilization.

The Old Testament, especially the terrible parts seem to have been written by Hebrews who lived during that, lets be honest, more barbaric time of Human History.

[Lord Orwell]

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

For example, God kills the first born of egypt to punish the pharaoh.

Now if the Bible really was the word of God, he wouldn't have killed innocent civilians to punish a leader.

See human beings as a species didn't realize group punishment is wrong until much later in our civilization.

The Old Testament, especially the terrible parts seem to have been written by Hebrews who lived during that, lets be honest, more barbaric time of Human History.

please dont compare your values of right and wrong to a diety and then use that as proof the book is fake because it doesnt show the behaviour you think a god should obey. He does not answer to you.

[capsulecorpjx]

please dont compare your values of right and wrong to a diety and then use that as proof the book is fake because it doesnt show the behaviour you think a god should obey. He does not answer to you.

So you really think it's ok for God to kill the first born of egypt (children) to punish Pharaoh?

I don't think it's right.

But that doesn't matter, because it didn't happen. The Hebrews who wrote the book wanted to fantasize about revenge, and to reinforce the power of their God. Similar to where the Voodoo religion has practitionars stick needles into dolls, believing it will get revenge against their oppressors.

A just and loving God would not punish people not responsible for a crime.

[capsulecorpjx]

John Lennon said it best "god is a concept, by which we measure our pain"

I disagree, God is people's security blanket just as their parents once were when adults were young. God is literally the replacement for lost fathers/mothers.

[srisa]

As long as these things remain at the "i believe" and "i don't believe" level there is no end to these discussions. Get hold of the questioner and questions will cease.

[EntityX]

srisa, It sounds to me like you were influenced by Ramana Maharshi. He's one of my favorites. And I agree with you.

[zaza]

please dont compare your values of right and wrong to a diety and then use that as proof the book is fake because it doesnt show the behaviour you think a god should obey. He does not answer to you.

Fair enough. But if God is prepared to put himself in such a position that I feel morally superior to him (and I would say not unreasonably in this case), then I'm afraid he can't seriously expect me to follow his Word.

Aside from anything else, the "eye for an eye" message taught by Islam to be acceptable is one serious reason why I find that religion not to my taste. Any religion which ever endorses murder is not something that I wish to follow.
There's a fair amount of cherrypicking from religion at an individual level, and unfortunately there is often something in there even for murderous thugs to believe in.

[Davadvice]

here here!!

[FunkyDexter]

"eye for an eye" message taught by Islam

The eye for an eye quote dates back to the Torah (Jewish Bible). It's not an islamic concept though they have inherited it via Christianity.

It's worth noting that the Quoran goes on to urge that, while the wronged party has the right to seek equal retribution, they should instead forgive and accept a lesser retribution or none at all.

It's also worth noting that, as it appears in the Torah, it's a guidance to the magistrate that would sit in judgement of a case, it's not an instruction to the individual to take revenge.

It's an often missunderstood quote.

[Davadvice]

I don’t agree

it seems very difficult to misunderstand what it means

I give you 5 and you give me 5 that seems very clear.

[capsulecorpjx]

The eye for an eye quote dates back to the Torah (Jewish Bible). It's not an islamic concept though they have inherited it via Christianity.

It's worth noting that the Quoran goes on to urge that, while the wronged party has the right to seek equal retribution, they should instead forgive and accept a lesser retribution or none at all.

It's also worth noting that, as it appears in the Torah, it's a guidance to the magistrate that would sit in judgement of a case, it's not an instruction to the individual to take revenge.

It's an often missunderstood quote.

An eye for an eye in the context of biblical times refers to killing groups of people in retribution, not getting justice or even revenge against specific persons who committed the offense.

[Lord Orwell]

An eye for an eye in the context of biblical times refers to killing groups of people in retribution, not getting justice or even revenge against specific persons who committed the offense.

i am also going to have to disagree. The old testament actually cites some examples and none of them involve group murder.

One is if your neighbor causes your animal to die you have the right to take one of his. It's a simplified "keep the books even" philosophy.

And it's also interesting to note that Jesus stated that this law no longer applies. the "unchanging eternal law" was changed according to him. Now he wants you to present your right cheek if your left is hit.

[capsulecorpjx]

i am also going to have to disagree. The old testament actually cites some examples and none of them involve group murder.

One is if your neighbor causes your animal to die you have the right to take one of his. It's a simplified "keep the books even" philosophy.

And it's also interesting to note that Jesus stated that this law no longer applies. the "unchanging eternal law" was changed according to him. Now he wants you to present your right cheek if your left is hit.

What about the story about an entire city being destroyed (Soddom and Gamorah)? I'm sure there were good adults in that city who got killed, not to mention small children, who should always be considered innocent.

What about the story of Noah's ark? So God killed all people except for Noah and his family? Again, there were some good adults, and at the very least innocent small children who got drowned.

The story of Adam and Eve? Why should humanity be punished for Adam's decision to eat an apple? Why should Eve curse all women to be subserviant and suffer childbirth (as it states in the bible) for her actions?

How are those not group punishment?

What about when God killed Job's entire family just to prove to the Devil that Job will not abandon his faith? How is that cool?

[penagate]

I think you are taking the Bible far too literally.

[Blakk_Majik]

People do tend to take the Bible too literally.

As an example, the beginning of the Bible which states God created everything in a week. He actually did all his work in 6 days, and on the 7th, he rested.

There are some that take this literally as "He started on Monday, finished on Saturday, and rested on Sunday (note: in some, namely Catholic, Sunday is viewed as the first day and Saturday is viewed as the "day of rest")." However, I am of the belief that days are a measure of time that humans use. Who's to say that a "day" for God is not millions of years?

What about when God killed Job's entire family just to prove to the Devil that Job will not abandon his faith? How is that cool?

If you look at this story on the surface, from the view of a non-believer, yea, I can see how you would come to the conclusion that God is a douchebag.

However, you need to think about that story. At that time, Job was God's most faithful servant, an upright and perfect human being. God had bestowed many Earthly gifts upon Job because of this. Why would God punish him, especially just to prove a point to the devil?

The point is that it is quite easy to proclaim belief in God, praise Him, follow His rules, etc. as you are continuously receiving from Him. However, what happens when things go bad, really bad? We must remember that anything given to us, God has the authority to take away (or allow Satan to take away from us). It is a lot harder to believe in God when he allows your children to be killed, your animals slaughtered, and everything to be bascially destroyed.

I hope you recall, in that story, that at one point, when Job was stricken with boils all over his body, he broke down and began to ask God why he allowed this to happen to him. Job, the upright and perfect, began to question his faith. God then let him know that it was a test of faith. Soon after, everything in Job's life was restored anew.

Was it extreme? In the view of humans probably so. However, I am in no position to judge God, so I just take the lesson(s) I learn from the story.

[Davadvice]

in response to the asking why.

how is it i can't get a reply if i ask a question. self proclaimed god talkers cannot be the only ones to talk with god if all are equal?

[NeedSomeAnswers]

People do tend to take the Bible too literally.

Yep mainly believers, which is one of the things about belief many people will believe just about anything.

As an example, the beginning of the Bible which states God created everything in a week. He actually did all his work in 6 days, and on the 7th, he rested.

There are some that take this literally as "He started on Monday, finished on Saturday, and rested on Sunday (note: in some, namely Catholic, Sunday is viewed as the first day and Saturday is viewed as the "day of rest")." However, I am of the belief that days are a measure of time that humans use. Who's to say that a "day" for God is not millions of years?

You may believe that, but the problem is there are a lot of Christians that want to push the literal definition as it's said in the bible into our schools as fact which is just plain wrong !

If you look at this story on the surface, from the view of a non-believer, yea, I can see how you would come to the conclusion that God is a douchebag.

Yes that is exactly how it looks

The point is that it is quite easy to proclaim belief in God, praise Him, follow His rules, etc. as you are continuously receiving from Him. However, what happens when things go bad, really bad? We must remember that anything given to us, God has the authority to take away (or allow Satan to take away from us). It is a lot harder to believe in God when he allows your children to be killed, your animals slaughtered, and everything to be bascially destroyed.

How is that a point, if god is interventionist as the old testament suggests, then why the hell would you want to worship a god that would do any of those things ? even to test someone faith.

Also Surely if God is omniscient they should basically know whether you have faith or not without the need to test for it.

If he is not an interventionist then the story makes no sense, and why would you care because you can basically do what you want without fear of punishment.

[capsulecorpjx]

I think you are taking the Bible far too literally.

Well if it's not 100% ethical and true, then how can I take it as the word of a just and loving god?

[abhijit]

A thought just crossed my mind.
If God wants us to go forth and multiply, why don't Catholic priests marry?

[LaVolpe]

I think you are taking the Bible far too literally.

Well if it's not 100% ethical and true, then how can I take it as the word of a just and loving god?

Many believe that Noah and the Ark is a true story, where the entire world was flooded/submerged by 40 days of rain. More & more modern-day theologians (men & women of faith) agree that it is a story of morals. And if it is based off of a true event, it was told out of context. Possibly a small town or city was washed away due to floods and the story grew from generation to generation to eventually become Noah's Ark.

One definition of religion (dictionary.com): "something one believes in and follows devotedly". By this definition, any truly religious person can be said to be biased and closed-minded to their religion; unwilling to entertain ideas that contradict. Too many religious people fall into that definition and it is a shame. No one's mind should be so biased or closed-minded to prevent entertaining new ideas with serious contemplation. That's my opinion of course.

[Shaggy Hiker]

There is no Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy or Underpants Gnomes ... because it's something people made up. There is no evidence they exist.

However, Leptons mixed with string theory to create sock lepre-cons, which are the dryer gremlins responsible for removing a single sock from any pair.

People used to believe (and still do in some parts of Africa) that witches were among them.

True, but in modern languages, these have been replaced by Select Case statements. (just remember, it's good to stretch before exercising, even if it is just stretching the pun muscle).

[dee-u]

A thought just crossed my mind.
If God wants us to go forth and multiply, why don't Catholic priests marry?

That's a very good question we should ask the Catholics.

[abhijit]

That's a very good question we should ask the Catholics.

I don't know any Catholics, much less priests.

[sparbag]

Why don't Catholic Priests marry? The Catholic church forbids Gay Weddings.

On a more sober note I would like to know where it is stated that 'God wants us to go forth an multiply' as I have never seen that one.

I am aware of a parable that explains the situation in greater detail.

A father says to his three sons to take their Gold Coins and to go out into the world and make a profit. The first son makes two gold coins and his father welcomes him. The second son makes three gold coins and his father welcomes him. The third son buried his coin in the ground for fear of losing it. He returned to his fathers house with his coin arguing that he kept it safe, his father told him to leave his house as he had failed to invest wisely (the word lazy I think was mentioned).
This parable has implications directly relating to population growth to ensure the survival of the religion, as a political entity. Where there are greater numbers there is greater strength.

Obviously bated at the Jewish population but conceivable to have measures against Catholic priests. A gold coin is a soul. But Priests go out into the world and convert people to the Catholic faith, and from this action create a soul.

Virgin Birth? Joseph and Mary were married prior to their travels to Bethlehem and for this reason the Catholic church describe this as the Miraculous Conception.

Noah - first testament. A Hebrew propaganda manifesto. You only need to read the romanticism of Moses measured against historical evidence.

Atheism is the door for people who have quite frankly had enough of the complete pile of shite that religion is. I've had enough and I will never go back. I don't need a god (small g) and never will I. I don't promote atheism in any way the organisational religions promote their faiths. Christian religions are logically flawed, after all, why is most of the bible missing? Why was Mary promoted as a prostitute? Why are only the stories of four disciples entered? This list of questions are endless.

Why don't people believe in god? Politicised religion killed mono theism.

Kind regards

Steve

[minitech]

I don't believe in God because there's no proof of His existence.

[BadgerBadger]

I'm assuming my post has been deleted since it magically disappeared without reason.

[mOBSCENE]

...And on the first day, man created god.

But hey, that's coming from someone with the Antichrist Superstar symbol as his avatar.

[Lord Orwell]

So you really think it's ok for God to kill the first born of egypt (children) to punish Pharaoh?

I don't think it's right.

...

A just and loving God would not punish people not responsible for a crime.

I am sorry, but nowhere in the old testament is he portrayed as either of those things. In fact, he's pro-genocide. He's literally the god of israel only and everyone else is either doomed to slavery, rape (women), or death.

Fair enough. But if God is prepared to put himself in such a position that I feel morally superior to him (and I would say not unreasonably in this case), then I'm afraid he can't seriously expect me to follow his Word.

Nit-picking here, but moses, his high priest was given the powers and he's actually the one who called the plagues down, except the final one. Do not forget that the pharoah actually ordered the deaths of the jewish children. Also the israelites were being kept as slaves and not a single family in egypt was innocent of keeping one a slave.

What about the story about an entire city being destroyed (Soddom and Gamorah)? I'm sure there were good adults in that city who got killed, not to mention small children, who should always be considered innocent.

What about the story of Noah's ark? So God killed all people except for Noah and his family? Again, there were some good adults, and at the very least innocent small children who got drowned.

The story of Adam and Eve? Why should humanity be punished for Adam's decision to eat an apple? Why should Eve curse all women to be subserviant and suffer childbirth (as it states in the bible) for her actions?

How are those not group punishment?

What about when God killed Job's entire family just to prove to the Devil that Job will not abandon his faith? How is that cool?

The old testament is more a history book than anything else. Some archaeologists believe they have actually found the destroyed cities (actually 5 cities) and believe it was a meteor or volcano.
Don't get me started on Genesis. It was a punishment for descendents of Adam. Not everyone is. If everyone was, there wouldn't have been people outside of the garden to persecute cain.
As for Job, i personally think that was a moral story. The literal translation of the person discussing with god was not satan, it was unbeliever. Only recent translations have changed this. The churches believe actually mentioning satan somewhere in the old testament (he's not actually there anywhere) gives more support for his existence in the new testament. Anyway, the point of that story was keep the faith and you'll be rewarded. He came out far ahead in the end.

Many believe that Noah and the Ark is a true story, where the entire world was flooded/submerged by 40 days of rain. More & more modern-day theologians (men & women of faith) agree that it is a story of morals. And if it is based off of a true event, it was told out of context. Possibly a small town or city was washed away due to floods and the story grew from generation to generation to eventually become Noah's Ark.

This is another interesting story. I don't give credence to the single town because of the simple fact that nearly every single religion has a flood story in it. Many believe this is another catastrophie story. Either huge tidal waves from a volcano at sea or at-sea meteor flooded huge parts of the earth.

[abhijit]

Why don't Catholic Priests marry? The Catholic church forbids Gay Weddings.

On a more sober note I would like to know where it is stated that 'God wants us to go forth an multiply' as I have never seen that one.

I think the quote is "Be fruitful and multiply", but I swear I have heard it both ways.

[Davadvice]

I am a "Catholic" in that I was baptised without being asked. From what I have been told Catholic priests in the most part are married to each other!! It is widely speculated (known) the vast majority of trainee priests are gay. I know of one person who did not continue with the training as he did not appreciate the behaviour of other priests as he did not feel the same way about men.

Go fourth and multiply is easy per Catholicism, if you are married. However if you are not then you aren’t getting any. if you don’t want a little bambino you don’t have a choice.

I don’t accept any of what was forced down my throat as a 5 year old from nuns who didn’t know any better. I have just found out that I am the sponsor for my nephews conformation can’t wait to stand and be a hypocrite for another hour!

People will ask why I am doing it. I am doing it because my nephew as asked and I don’t want to let him down.

[Jenner]

Atheism is the door for people who have quite frankly had enough of the complete pile of shite that religion is. I've had enough and I will never go back. I don't need a god (small g) and never will I. I don't promote atheism in any way the organizational religions promote their faiths. Christian religions are logically flawed, after all, why is most of the bible missing? Why was Mary promoted as a prostitute? Why are only the stories of four disciples entered? This list of questions are endless.

Why don't people believe in god? Politicized religion killed monotheism.

Kind regards

Steve

I think Steve hit the nail on the head. As a modern society, we are seeing a shift towards agnosticism. The agnostic believes that all spiritual/metaphysical knowledge such as theology, the afterlife, existence of deities, etc, are unknown and for the most part, unknowable. Thus, they reject religion; which by it's very nature, claims the opposite.

Whether an agnostic is a theist or an atheist is another matter. I for example am an agnostic theist. I reject religion but I believe in a theology, and my personal theology believes in a God.

Other people are agnostic atheists, they reject both religion and any form of theology. In reality, there are few true atheists since most people tend to believe in something personally; whether it be an afterlife, a God or Gods, spiritual beings, etc. They may certainly be agnostic though.

So why this shift away from organized religion? Most likely it is because of this Age of Information that we live in. You can now, thanks to the printing press, jets and modern distribution systems and even the internet, get a comparison of every major religion side-by-side on this planet. You can also see everybody's arguments to every ancient verse pointing out the logical flaws, the contradictions, and the questionings in a nifty blog format.

On top of it all, we have information at our fingertips of our world's history as we have best pieced it together; and with that, hard evidence of men and women using religion as a tool to manipulate and control the unlearned masses. Evidence of hiding and destroying knowledge, evidence of the invention of self-serving edicts that have become ritual and mandate, and evidence of using religion as a blanket to cover over atrocities committed (we're sorry we killed your people, but God told us to!).

Religion, at least the major religions of this world have become politicized. Knowledge, now available freely to even the humblest man allows them to see this and be disgusted. The result? They become agnostic.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Is there a site out there that does a side by side comparison of religions in a purely banal way? What I am thinking of is a site that compares them much the same way that a place like MS compares different levels of VS. So there would be a table with a series of features down the left column (the rows), a variety of religions across the top (the columns), and a check mark in the grid for each item. Perhaps a check mark wouldn't be sufficient, though.

For example, one of the rows would be "Attitudes towards sex" (perhaps there could be different rows for hetero, homo, animalistic, recreational, etc.). Some religions would be "opposed" (most fundamentalist flavors), "supportive" (some eastern traditions), or maybe even "totally messed up".

Another category could be "Pork is food", while another would be "Cows are food".

This could make for a highly entertaining site.