Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[Shaggy Hiker]

https://ready.nola.gov/incident/coro...very&utm_term=

Just goes to show what a patchwork the US is. I think you'd find Washington to be similar.

[Shaggy Hiker]

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.121.056583

Okay, you altered the quote and used that as an example. Were you thinking people wouldn't look? The actual quote had those percentages in parenthesis, because they were percentages of a group that was already identified as having the symptoms. By removing the parenthesis you make it look like it's ALL vaccine recipients, not the tiny subset that had the symptoms being studied.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....23.21268276v1

In this one, you omitted the point that an increased risk was also associated with the virus itself. So, was the risk increased higher by the vaccine or by the virus? The paper doesn't say. However, here's a link on it:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

That one you got completely wrong. They were saying the increased rate was 10 per million for those with two doses of the vaccine, but they also said there was an increase of 40 per million for those who got the virus. So, there IS an increased rate, but it's down around a quarter of what it would be for the virus itself.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....21.21268209v1

Same problem as the other medrxiv citation, but more so, since this study was looking at how many cases were missed. It's a study about methodology.

[sapator]

What's happening in Canada with the trucks?
Anyone on more inside info than the papers?

[baka]

[dilettante]

That Louisiana web page is a hoot. Photocopy both sides of your vaccination card?Er, which one? Both? All three?

Those CDC cards are just a form. The information on them is a reminder to you to help you be sure you got coverage and when, without accidental double coverage. This is not a controlled document, it's a bit of paper.

I said it before: I got one card for the first two doses and was given a second card for the booster. When I mentioned it the nurse told me I could copy the booster info to the original card myself and discard the redundant one.


I guess where there is no honor, an honor system is beyond imagination. They must be just flooded with forgeries in some vain hope that they mean anything. It's like the state motto is "Derr" or something.

[Shaggy Hiker]

What's happening in Canada with the trucks?
Anyone on more inside info than the papers?

I hadn't heard about that. Sounds like their running behind schedule. That fits pretty well, really.

[sapator]

Ye, well.
That is the news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/w...wa-canada.html
But I was hoping for a more inside info as rumors has it that they are close to 50.000 people all around.

[Niya]

I watched a youtube not long ago that is very much like that "You Will Never Do Anything Remarkable".
but with a message to change it:

Excellent video. It's basically what I was trying to explain to Shaggy and West a few pages back about how the work really works and how "Joe Sixpack" doesn't know how screwed he really is.

[Eduardo-]

I feel that australia, austria and canada are like "testing countries" if it works they will try to apply it to other countries as well.

Exactly. It is a step by step process.

At first they (they: big pharma, the WHO, CDC, FDA, mass media) said that it was going to be two jab shots, and that was supposed to be all.
After a little while they started saying "we don't know for how long the immunity will last".
Then they started talking about a booster shot.
Then they started a comedy: Pfizer saying that a third shot was necessary and the FDA saying no, we don't think so.
After a little while the FDA approved a third shot. Then mandated it.

The same happened about pregnant and child vaccination.
At first child vaccination was not needed, convenient neither tested (all that was true).
How long did that last? One month, two?

It is clearly a plan, a well studied psychological plan. What can people accept now? It is step by step, they continually are advancing with their agenda.

The same with mass media. Years ago Google was a bearer, a leader of free speech.
I'm talking before the pandemic. They threatened to leave China because China wanted to force them to censure information.
After some time what they did? They complied with China government request of censoring. Not a champion of free speech any more.

Not long after pandemic started, with the argument that people is stupid and need to be treated as children, they started censoring any covid information that was not in line with WHO, FDA, CDC. Unthinkable. But they did.

One main effect of censoring is that most people don't know that there is a censoring process going on. They think that this monolithic information in all mass media is something natural.

They go step by step.

They are testing in Australia. The other day I posted about a lady that was arrested for not showing a vaccination passport.

The number one of the World of tennis could not play the Australian tournament.

It is clear what is happening.

You can see the result of the mass formation here in the forum. An user suggested to ban users based on their opinions.

That's not normal at all. They are steps in the mass formation process.
Some people are thinking, considering, suggesting or doing things that they would never consider to do before.

I reported that message. So I guess that's why dday9 is here.
BTW: thank you dday9 for setting your position (of free speech).

[Shaggy Hiker]

It is clearly a plan, a well studied psychological plan. What can people accept now? It is step by step, they continually are advancing with their agenda.

Or maybe they didn't have enough data and changed their minds as more data was presented. Nah, nobody EVER changes their minds on anything.

[Eduardo-]

Or maybe they didn't have enough data and changed their minds as more data was presented.

I respect your opinion but I don't share it. Please respect mine.

Nah, nobody EVER changes their minds on anything.

I do when someone shows me something that I didn't see or consider before.
But I don't change because of repetition, harassment, false information or not valid arguments.

And when I don't see the same openness (to consider other possibilities) from the other part, I stop replying.

It is painstaking to keep responding to someone that do not consider or deliberately ignore what I say, picking just some part that they think they can argue about and ignoring strong arguments that they don't know what to respond.
Someone behaving like that I, realize that is not interested in any truth.

[baka]

what I try to understand how we can perceive the world so different.
Its like we are living in a multiverse and two universe are colliding with each other
and they are mirrored of each other.
it seems everything is reversed. I say this is black and you say no, its white.

I was never fooled by the narrative. but I was not active.
I did have my stand, that I didnt want to take the vaccine, I didnt see the need.
like the swine-flu, I did my research quite early on and discovered it was not something I need to protect myself against.

I knew about my health status and was never scared. all the news that tried to scare me off, I just thought they where crazy
and exaggerated.

I did however change a lot in my life, as I was about to quite my job, move, I started practicing wim hof method,
expanded the game-project team and so on.

but more time passed more I started to wonder, ***, its neverending. and the narrative that they changed all the time.
eventually I started to discuss it more with friends and family and eventually I also decided to make a post in this thread.
I knew about this thread, but I didnt care, until one day I just wanted to go more deep into it.

I was not that interested in the news that much early on, sure I watched and wanted to be updated,
but there was always this "hmm--- Im not sure, something is not right with this narrative".
but thats it, never thought more about it.
it was later when I started to understand that the world is starting to move into a very dangerous direction.
my stand was not moving but the narrative was always changing to the worse. that was also a warning signal.
I thought, how? its not making any sense, they did say this last week and now they are saying this..
it was a lot of that, changing the narrative all the time.

and when I saw that people started to change as well. swallowed the narrative in a very ritualistic way, it was time to react.
maybe late, but at least I reacted.

so, after that it was more, wheres my place in all this? where do I find the information that I seek?
and here we are.

[Eduardo-]

The never-ending changes in the narrative is what should turn on all red lights.
People tend to have a very short term memory. They take advantage of that fact.
It is crystal clear to me that that happens not by change or at random, it is a planned process.

I have some experience on this kind of processes because something like that already happened in my country.
I happened with Kirchnerism. (I didn't read that Wikipedia page, but be aware that they have a team for editing Wikipedia in a attempt to change history).

We call it "el relato" (the narrative), that is a set of lies. They lie about everything, they even wanted to change historical facts.
Not to mention that they also are a band of thieves and criminal of all kinds.

So, I am already very familiar with how narratives work.
What is going on with the pandemic, globally, is clearly a narrative and a process of mass formation (and degeneration).

[Eduardo-]

As an example from here, where we are more advanced in bad things (and in fighting against them) I can tell that they are using the state tax agency to persecute "enemies", the people that are against the narrative or that do something they don't like. They send the AFIP. No matter if the person or company payed everything and is all right, they'll find something. Or may fabricate something. Or if they don't find anything just the simple issue of having all revolted by the inspection is intimidating enough.

That can't happen in America will say someone. Just wait.

PS: well, I have to admit that there most people pay all taxes. Not like here that is normal to evade because the tax load is so huge that it is almost impossible to pay all as the laws state without going bankruptcy (and also because of the idiosyncrasy of Latin-Americans of not being too adherent to pay taxes. And that's one of the reasons why they put taxes so high, because people evade).
But they will find something else to intimidate there.

[Niya]

I'm starting to notice a trend here. I didn't know until now that Eduardo wasn't American. Olaf is German, sapator is Greek and based on how baka types, I'd say English is not his first language hence he may not be American either. I am also not American. I'm noticing that all of us share a similar skepticism of the mainstream narratives, whether it be about Covid or social issues. On the other hand, the Americans here seems to more or less buy into mainstream thinking or at the very least don't seem concerned by it.

I'm not really sure what point I'm making here or even if there is one. I just find this interesting.

[Eduardo-]

I'm not really sure what point I'm making here or even if there is one. I just find this interesting.

I didn't notice that before either.
I anyway can say that here in my country I think that most people buy the narrative more than in USA.

As an indicator, here we have 87% (76%) of vaccination against 74% (63%) of USA.

[Niya]

I didn't notice that before either.
I anyway can say that here in my country I think that most people buy the narrative more than in USA.

As an indicator, here we have 87% (76%) of vaccination against 74% (63%) of USA.

I'd hesitate to say that it's because the people of our respective countries buy into it. I can't speak for other countries but in my country, a large majority of people got vaccinated too but if you listen to them talk about the pandemic and vaccines you will here some of the wackiest conspiracy theories ever conceived. No one where I'm from really buys into what the major powers of the world are saying with regards to the pandemic. We only got vaccinated because the Government is looking to make life more difficult for people who are unvaccinated and most people just want to get on with their lives.

As for me, I didn't get vaccinated until very late into this pandemic. My personal reasoning was that I wanted to others to go first so I can be sure it's safe to take. Even then I only got vaccinated because it was becoming clear that discrimination against the unvaccinated could become a real problem. For example, our Government put out a statement stating that salaries would be withheld from their unvaccinated workers after a specific deadline. I have no idea what kind of cocktails they injected into me. It could have been orange juice for all I know but hey, as long as it doesn't kill me or worse, kill my manhood. I'm willing to risk it. I guess most people subscribed to a similar line of thinking.

People just want to get on with their lives I think so we do what we must or dare I say, what we are forced to do. I guess sometimes it's just better to go along than to start a revolution even if what you're going along with is really for the benefit of the ruling elite and not for you.

[Niya]

Just looked up the vaccination stats for my country. It's 49.1% and I'm very sure that number will rise. No one here wanted to get vaccinated at all when vaccines finally got here. It wasn't until the Government implemented measures to more or less force people into taking it, did we start to see long lines of people trying to get vaccinated.

[baka]

hard to say.
my countrymen are quite brainwashed, but not all. so the "numbers" seems to be true here as well.
around 20% are not buying it.

its very hard to know exactly why.

I can only talk about myself.
Im not a follower. I don't care about social codes. I can say things that people usually avoid to not cause a scene. I wrote about the muster, that I didnt do what the military dude told me. so Im not very easy persuaded. I go my way. but that doesn't mean I can't compromise or be in a team.
maybe that mindset makes it hard to hypnotize. as I see myself as an individual, unique, and I dont need to be part of a collective to find self worth. I actually can be alone without feeling lonely. contrary, I enjoy it. but that doesn't mean Im not social. but I can switch it on/off quite easily.

another friend, is not like me at all. he is unsure about himself, living in the clouds, he is very kind, but sometimes too much and people use it. what I can see, he has a critical mind against the politicians, he's not a lucky guy, did struggle a lot, just a few years ago he finally got a steady job. so maybe thats the mindset? I can also see myself as that,

when my class (at school) I saw the others, they all fit, they knew what they will go, what education and job, they have where more accepted by the group, I always felt myself as an outsider at that age, different. and my friend, as he explain his childhood, is similar. not that popular kid.

not sure. but it seems you need to have some struggles in your life. where u didnt always get what you wanted, that you suffer or where bullied, or alone, or some tragic happened to you, or you stopped believing in the system, the teachers, the counselor.

I believe if you life was a too comfortable and everything was already set for you, maybe your mind didnt train to see injustice, manipulation, a bully behavior. instead if you are more lucky, you believe in the system, and of course, why shouldn't you believe in your government. that gave you all the opportunities.

[Eduardo-]

Having bad experiences is not the best way of learning. It is best to have the right information and paying attention to it.
But most people need to experience adverse results to finally understand. That's human nature.

[sapator]

Dday is also American but he is skeptic about it, so it's not something only other countries than US people are against.
As for vaccination, I couldn't do it due to a health issue (not that I would have) but I didn't wait to see how others react to the dose, I didn't plan on doing in because of the measures against non vaccination and certainty did not care what others thought of this. I just knew it was plain wrong in so many ways, call it a FY to the system if you like. They only chance in a million to do it is if they where kept their big greedy prune manipulating mouths shut.

[Niya]

Dday is also American but he is skeptic about it, so it's not something only other countries than US people are against.

Yea, there are always exceptions. But I've found that in general, Americans tend to have a very overly optimistic view of the world. Sometimes I wonder if many of them know just how truly horrible the world really is. I mean take my interaction with West. He was extremely opposed to the idea that people are mainly driven by self-interest. You will get eaten alive where I'm from if you don't understand this basic fact of life yet this idea is strange to many Americans. They actually believe man's default setting is altruism. It always astonishes me.

[Shaggy Hiker]

So, why do you put up with it? You complained about people not doing something to better their life. If you live in such a hell hole, why are you staying there?

[Niya]

So, why do you put up with it? You complained about people not doing something to better their life. If you live in such a hell hole, why are you staying there?

This is the perfect example of what I mean when I say Americans have an overly optimistic world view. I gave you a tiny view into what life is like in my home and immediately, you describe it as a hell hole. But what you do not understand is that to you such a place is hell but to me, it's the best place in the world. I'm built for a world like mine, but a typical American suburbanite is not. You cannot fathom the idea that such a place could actually be paradise to some people.

Interestingly enough very recently I had a relative who has lived in US for something like 40 years who came back here intending to spend the rest of her life. She didn't last 2 months. Today she tucked tail and ran back to the states. Poor thing. I'm guessing she lived a life of sheltered convenience in the US and wasn't ready for the rawness of life here after a 40 year absence. She had way too many lofty ideas in her head about what life would be like here. The reality was just too much for her to bear. But to me, it's nothing. I'd rather be here than anywhere else. The thing about it is that it's all in your mind. It's all about your mindset.
'

[wes4dbt]

I mean take my interaction with West. He was extremely opposed to the idea that people are mainly driven by self-interest.

No, no, no! Your statement was everything people do is driven by self interest. Big difference.

btw - My name is not West. lol

[baka]

thats why we have integration problems.
people that immigrate here, have it very difficult to integrate.
theres tons of studies, one suggest its not really about your culture but your socioeconomically status that counts. meaning, a middle class in country X has more in common with a middle class in another country than a lower class from the same country. sure we could find faults here, its not my thesis.

since Im a hybrid. from 2 different cultures I see structures in the cultures that others from here can't see.
but theres people of different mix of cultures that have another way of seeing thing. so its quite dynamic and theres no uniform formula.

for me it has always been that Im not 100% comfortable in any of the 2 cultures. I enjoy parts of both, but can't really fit in any. I feel more comfortable with people that are different, struggle, have an more open mind.
I do however feel more and more comfortable in this country since I live here, so it seems to be about time as well.
even if I have my strong identity I can easily adapt, its not that I want to change this country to something else, but I want to improve it. and thats normal for any person that are free thinking.
but I can see that people from another country that struggle to adapt, they want to change this country to be more like their home country.
and that astonish me, as many people are fugitive from a war and oppressed country. still they want to apply that mentality that didnt work there, here as well.
that tells me how hard it is to change.

the successful integrated people seems to be the hard working and middle or upper class, that has an education, are more intellectual. those seem to have it more easy to adapt.
we also have people that came from a "similar" social structure. like Iran, as they where a socialistic country before the revolution. and it seems that made it easier to adapt here.

anyway.
Eduardo-, I think it is. the bad experience can "push you" out from your bubble.
if your parents didn't teach you to be analytical, to be critical in thinking, guided you to allow multiple perspectives, you will be stuck in your willfulness.
that is why you see people "doing the wrong thing" all the time.
and I usually say, yes, they need to do it, to understand.
when I try to tell some friend, this is not good for you, they will do it anyway, and if they avoid it because of fear, they don't grow either.
they need to do wrong to open their eyes.

but maybe, if you have enough experience of that, maybe you don't need to do it all the time. instead you can use your mind to understand the consequences of doing something. and hopefully thats enough for you to grow.

not sure how to explain the mass formation. why some people are totally absorbed into the narrative while others are free.
but I believe it has something to do with your need to be part of the collective.

as my grandmother used to say (when I challenged her with some new thought) why do I need to change? when others changes I might as well.
meaning, that for her, it was important that "others" changes, and if they do she would as well.
it was also this mentality "others" that are not even close to us, seems to be the guidelines how to be.
you need to be in certain way to be accepted by the "others". it was more important than to create a family that accepted each other.

[Eduardo-]

the outright staggering levels of stupidity that leads to theories like the Earth being flat.

I'll tell you a story.
In 2006 it came to my knowledge that there were people actually holding that the Earth was flat.
I could not believe that in Century XXI that was even possible.
(Flatearthers were not famous at that time like they are now)
I was curious what they had to say.

I found a forum here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

I went, started reading and participated in some discussions.
As you could expect, their arguments are so weak. That the Earth is flat because is that what you see in your experience (I don't remember what they said about the ships going down in the horizon), that there is a conspiracy and all the images from the space are fake, things like that.
IDK if they improved something, I didn't read now.
Still, no one knew if the FE theory supporters really believed that or they did it for some kind of fun or whatever.
It seemed like some really believed that, but it seems too crazy.

But I found one that was not a flatearther, but his theory was that the Earth was a globe as it actually is, but was not moving, that it is still in the space.
And that everything else is moving around it (the sun, planets, stars, galaxies, whatever).

I told him that in that case, distant stars and galaxies that are at 13,000 millions light years away or more, would have to travel to a speed much greater than the speed of light to make a turn every 24 hours.

He told me that that was not a problem, that in Einstein's Relativity theory it is fine to suppose that, and that all calculations support that.

I told him about Coriolis force. He said that there is no problem with that, or anything. That the math worked anyway.

I didn't know what to think about that, and decided to ask the people that understand the subject.

I went to an Usenet newsgroup that I used to go and posted the question. On that group there were some guys that were really intelligent, they were physicists, university professors of physics or students.
Those were the good times of internet, when it was really democratic, and anyone could easily find where to ask an expert in a field.

To my surprise they didn't answer that what the guy said was not right.
They said that the Galilean cosmology was preferable to the Ptolemaic System because of its simplicity, not because the Ptolemaic one was "wrong".
Humm? WT...

Of course I was a bit lost.

Then someone said that I was being "a naive realist", and pointed me to read this: https://www.boogieonline.com/seeking/

I highly recommend to read it for someone that wants to understand how science works.

They also pointed me to read an Einstein writing about two rotating spheres in the Universe (as they were alone), one rotating regarding the other one. It is an interesting thought experiment.
I don't find it now, but I think it could be here under the section Relativity of Inertia ("Mach's Principle").

[baka]

yeah. that is why the science can not tell for sure how things work.
even if they try. with all kinds of machines and testing to figure out things.
right now they are like very close to what happened just after big bang, but not how it happened. and because of that, we are not sure that anything is correct.

they also talk about structures, that after big bang, the universe didnt allow energy frequency to be in a certain level,
example:

when big bang started, you "room" was 10x10 in size. and if u look straight forward u saw your own backside.
in the same time, you could only see one color (example RED), the other colors didnt exist and couldn't be created at all. no matter what u did.
this principle would say that everything was like that, sounds, waves, energy, everything was limited to what the room could handle.

right now the space between atoms are increasing, that goes hand in hand with the universe expanding, like a balloon.
now its so big, that its hard to understand its structures.
do we really see a galaxy when watching the night sky, or are we seeing the same galaxy repeating itself?
example: galaxy A age 1 you see in position X,Y,Z, but the same galaxy you also see in another position, but age 10
we can not be sure.

we also have shadow galaxies, that we can not see at all. those should be created by anti-matter.
this could explain some phenomena how visible galaxies moves. do we know? nop. we are not sure either.

if theres anti-matter galaxies, it would mean there could be civilizations in those galaxies. and for them, we are the anti-matter.

we also have different cosmological theory.
one is that the center is empty, and around it we have something moving, like a solar system, a sol and planets moving around it.
but here, the center and the planets are nothing.
what this guy suggest is that only when the "planets" collide, its when it became "real".
that means, we could have billions of universes in the same spot but we can only see 1, the one that we are part of.
since this moving nothingness will create different "reality" depending on where on this structure we have collisions.

so, talking about cosmology, theres just theories, but not 100% facts. even if we can reach a 99% surety, its not 100%

that will apply to what Eduardo- is telling. we can not be 100% sure of anything. but we can be 99% sure.
but that little change in that 1% could change how everything really works.

[Eduardo-]

One key feature of true science is being able to repeat the experiment.
How can one be supposed to repeat the Big-Bang to check whether it actually works?

In science, most theories that seems to work (*) on paper have problems when actually tested.

(*) And the Big-Bang theory has problems already on paper, but they don't tell you that (you can study them anyway). It is another narrative that is presented as "the truth".

[baka]

another thing that fascinate me is logic. that is used by many disciplines as the base.
the initial "fact" is

A = -A is false or A can not be -A

and from there they add more and more rules.
but what if this is actually so. that A is indeed equal to -A

sure, to explain that it will be something very hard.
maybe so hard you will need to explain the entire universe and how everything works
and that would make this very complicated.

[Eduardo-]

I like logic very much.
It is interesting that there are a lot of logical fallacies.
Some things can seem right at first sight, but induce you to erroneous conclusions.

The machinery of lies uses them a lot.
Some info here and here.

[TysonLPrice]

We have words from darn near every language that is spoken anywhere around Europe, the Middle East, and so on, including made up words, acronyms that have become words, and every other fantastical formulation. English is very much the mutt of languages.

Something I find interesting is the different accents across the country. Early in our history we had the thirteen colonies and they were relatively isolated. Accents were pretty much localized. As the country expanded westward accents tend to blend and are less distinct. By the time you are in California you are accent free. But I guess that is an accent in itself.

[baka]

yeah, logical fallacies is when u mix logic with emotions.
and we are an emotional creature.

sure those people that are good in rhetoric usually seems quite emotionally disabled.
they can get away with it a bit, but if they keep doing it, eventually I just get irritated and will not listen anymore.
I get the feeling: how can I believe in a person that doesn't seem to react to anything.

to be too logical can also lead to psychopathy.
people that don't care anymore.
that is why populism works, (even if that could also be manipulation), people will see the politician react. they are "human" and people likes that.

the downside is that its hard to choose.
sometimes u need emotion to be present, that helps to see past some logical errors that the counterpart has.
and sometimes u need to just stick with logic, as the emotion can stop your arguments, if that person has strong emotions against, maybe a person, or a institution etc.

if we think about politicians, they are the expert in this subject.
practical philosophy, is what you study to be a good politician or consultant.
and if you study that, its all about manipulation.
they tell you "you need to learn how to sell this item in the best way" even if you don't believe it yourself.
quite terrible that they teach you that. where's the moral here?

but its the downside when they spit philosophy into different faculty.
they remove the moral and just use the practical use.

[Eduardo-]

Humm, I think you are mixing many things.

I never related fallacies with emotions, but now I'm thinking that you are right. In many fallacies emotions play a role.

Still, it doesn't mean that emotions are bad per-se.
Not at all, emotions are good as far as they are in the right place.

It is like a car engine, there is water, there is oil and there is electricity. If you put water where there need to be just electricity, it will malfunction.

If you need to resolve an equation, you cannot alter the result according to your emotions. You will err.

Psychopaths are persons that have a kind of mentally disability that they don't feel any empathy for others. They can show like they care about others, but it is all fake. They manipulate other's emotions for their convenience.

Populists manipulate emotions of people, not sure if they are all psychopaths.

Many politicians apply seduction. "Seduction" in this sense is not "sexual attraction" but the art of... lets say hypnotizing and deceiving. Like a con man. When the victim realizes it is too late, or there is already another seduction on course.
Or may be a group in society got some true benefits for themselves and that's why they support the politician or party even when he has harmed most or many people.

and if you study that, its all about manipulation.
they tell you "you need to learn how to sell this item in the best way" even if you don't believe it yourself.
quite terrible that they teach you that. where's the moral here?

Most today's companies have no morals or values. Their only goal is making as much money as possible. Not different than a criminal organization. If they don't do more wrong, is for not going to jail or having plaints.

[Eduardo-]

Most today's companies have no morals or values. Their only goal is making as much money as possible. Not different than a criminal organization. If they don't do more wrong, is for not going to jail or having plaints.

And they are run by psychopaths (I'm talking mostly about big companies).
It have much to do with what is happening with this pandemic.

[baka]

emotions is something wide.

lets say, a younger person, uses emotion for communications that are easy to identify.
while older persons , they learn to control the outburst. they can also use it for their own advantages, like you wrote: seduction.
is an art to stimulate the other person by playing with their emotional state.

usually emotions are linked to primary needs, that are about survival instincts.
not always obvious, but the person gets "emotional" when it looses in game, when he sees someone successful, when theres a discussion, its not just about right and wrong but about the emotional state to lose that can create frustration and despair.

when emotions are "good", its instead a person that are in balance with his emotions.
that usually require a person with insight, understanding and resolved different issues that are mostly connected to his family, childhood etc.
a balance, is when emotional stimuli from the outside can be easily absorbed without the need of an reaction.
its a stability, a strength in that person to allow this. we could say he is mindful. accepting his whole person, without the need to get approval of anyone else.
that is a sign of a more primitive emotion that we can see in a younger person. that want attention from his parents and want to compete with them.

now, in my life I see a lot of this.
people are arguing with each other to get approval, an emotional state. the context of the argument is secondary.
that is why is very difficult to win an argument against an emotional person.
its much easier to "manipulate" that person using emotions, doing so, he will agree with you much easier.

so, how can we decide what emotion is good and what is bad?
intentions? your own interest? benefit to who?

if the person has an agenda and he know he will get successful if he win the debate
now, that emotion will be "good". he will use it as a boost, to be charismatic, strong, self-confidence.
but emotions per-se are not telling if its good or bad what he is doing. it could lead to war and destruction.

in the same time, a bad emotion, could make a person stand up. I will not stand to this injustice, I will fight.
that emotion can of course change into strength, if he gets enough people joining his resolve.

emotions play a role "how" we communicate. while logic, is the tool-set we are using. a skill.

[Eduardo-]

so, how can we decide what emotion is good and what is bad?

In the example of the car engine, when water is in the place where it has electricity is bad.

In human, it is complex. I don't think there will be a general formula to define when emotions are good and when are bad. It depend of many factors.

But I could say that fear most of the times it is bad.

Mass formation has a lot to do with emotions, with putting emotions in the wrong place.

[baka]

exactly. fear.

we read about war and famine, we see news about mass shooting, terrorism.
movies that is often about killing, crimes, mass destruction.
while we also avoiding fear as much possible. and if theres some bad emotion, we take drugs, alcohol
or we stay home all day playing games, its all about avoiding it and be scared that it will not come here.

now, the pandemic, and the media and government is using it to scare everyone to death.
people will demand to be saved. now they are ready. they can start the mass formation.

maybe we should create a new thread called "mass formation"

the subjects will be:

- of course mass formation
- covid/vaccines in a "mass formation" understanding
- the great reset/world economic forum. is mass formation created by them, if not by who and why? and if natural, how? coincidence?
- the human mind, psychology, sociology, philosophy.
- conspiracy theories.
- mass propaganda, lies, manipulation from media etc.
- and more

I think it can fit all. and leave this thread, to just be about corona news from media.

[Eduardo-]

maybe we should create a new thread

OK, you do?

[TysonLPrice]

I don't think it is for any of us, mods included, to decide what and what doesn't qualify as misinformation except only in extreme cases such as the outright staggering levels of stupidity that leads to theories like the Earth being flat.

I'm not directing this at you specifically...just jumping in in the thread at this point...

except only in extreme cases such as the outright staggering levels of stupidity

And who decides that? The two I mentioned are spreading absolutely false information that, maybe not affecting people at this site, adds to the 'global campaign" of misinformation that is killing millions. If the position here is people are smart enough to disregard it I'd agree. But tolerating this, not just here but across the forums, adds to people dying.

And it seems ludicrous that if I post the text "****" here I'll get a warning or knocked off from allowing to post but a couple of people can continue to post outright lies and falsehoods. What is more vulgar, a swearword, or harmful speech that has been proven to, by spreading falsehoods across the globe, to be killing people?

Suppose a couple of posters managed two squeeze in holocaust denial? Post after post for weeks how it wasn't true. Blog and podcast after another of people that "prove" it didn't happen. Telling anyone that disagreed they were ignorant and the enemy? Is the approach at this forum , well the people here know that isn't true?

How about if I got into race hate and fear mongering, is that crossing the line? Probably...

My point is there are some posters here that are flat out lying in a way that can be harmful. In total, across the internet, tolerating that is killing people, I don't like that this site is being part of allowing that. But I do respect this site allowing that only in the vein of free speech.

Ok; Which will get me a warning here from the moderators...Vaccines are worthless, the government is lying and resist any health measures because they are lying , masks are worthless, Kill Fauci , or posting F**K?

Where are the moderators priorities?