[RESOLVED] The end of Visual Basic

Hi,

Yesterday, I was told by a friend of mine at school that they are no longer teaching Visual Basic there but instead moved over to teaching c#. That got me think could Visual Basic 2008 be the last version of Visual Basic ever? It seems to be losing favor in the business world in favor of languages such as c++, c#, etc.

Further more I was reading on wikipedia and there doesn't seem to be any mention of Visual Basic 2010 which, would be the logical choice since Visual Studios 2010 in the works.

Also, a members of this very forum have said that there companies don't seem to use Visual Basic as much as other programming languages.

Edit:

After doing some searching I found that VB2010 will be released as part of VS2010 but that doesn't change my question. Is Visual Basic use coming to an end commercially?

What are your opinions on this?


Nightwalker

Considering I've already coded in VB 10 (VS 2010) in beta 1 last year and they've made even more enhancements to it I'd say vb is alive and kicking and will continue for numerous versions to come.

If that is the case I wonder why a lot of companies are choosing to switch to other languages for the majority of their development?

Expect VS 2010 RC very soon this month and yes it does have VB in it still. VB is not going anywhere.
But thats just sad that a school is narrowminded and misguided in their blind following of the pack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobDog888

Expect VS 2010 RC very soon this month and yes it does have VB in it still. VB is not going anywhere.
But thats just sad that a school is narrowminded and misguided in their blind following of the pack.

---

Unless, it wasn't one student who gave me the wrong information. I will properly find that out at the start of next semester.

If the majoroity of jobs in the local area are C#, then it makes perfect sense. Oddly, around here, VB is actually quite hot. That's because there are a ton of C/C++/C# developers... it comes and goes. It amazes me just how many non-C-based jobs there are around here.

-tg

VB jobs are gaining ground here in LA :)

Smart employers maybe are realizing that its the same framework which they are paying c# developers more for which they can get vb developers to do the same thing for less

Is it just the cost involved as to why companies prefer to hire vb programmers over c# programmers or does vb have other advantages?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

Is it just the cost involved as to why companies prefer to hire vb programmers over c# programmers or does vb have other advantages?

---

VB can be a little faster to develop the same code, probably because the syntax is all english keywords instead of the beginning and closing brackets {} for everything.

I don't have any problems developing in c# but it does get very confusing at the bottom of a class file when you have this going on:

Code:

---

                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

---

It's very hard to tell which of those close an if block, which one closes a while loop, which one closes the function/sub and which one closes the class. I tend to label them with a line comment, but it seems like the c# IDE could put a //end while/if/etc automatically for every closing brace.

Amen my fellow Juggalo :D

One of the best features of Vb.NEt is it's verboseness and the ease of which the IDE let's you zip through it. I'd be lost without End If, End While, End Sub, End Class...

I have seen companies pushing towards C# as well.

Today search on dice yields 5420 results for C# listings, but 1351 results for VB .NET

I have used a variety of languages, including C++. I really liked the OO nature of C++, and was thrilled to see VB.NET show up and bring OO to VB. However, C++ is bad for reasons other than just all those silly semi-colons. The operators in C/C++ can make a complex bit fiddling operation look like line noise. That may actually be the reason that C# is so popular. After all, in nearly every specialized industry, jargon rules. That isn't because there is a natural need for specialized words, there is also a pack mentality. If you can't speak the language, you can't join the club. I suspect that some of the allure of the C-style syntax has to do with wanting to have the appearance of knowledge so that your work has an appearance of value beyond its actual worth (though the worth itself can be high).

My other thought is that the C-style languages were created by the SPHPT (the Society for the Perpetuation of Hunt and Peck Typists). If you have ever taken a typing course, you have been taught to keep your fingers on the home row. The F and J keys have bumps on them so that you can check that your fingers are on the right keys. The fastests keys to hit are those under your most dexterous fingers, with those in the row above being second (and then there is the reasoning behind the QWERTY keyboard layout, but that's another rant). Moving up two rows to the number keys is much harder for most normal typists, as you generally can't reach them without moving your hands (you can't reach by extending your fingers alone). Using the upper register of those keys is even more miserable, yet C-style syntax relies very heavily on upper register, top row, keys, and even more miserable keys like {, }, |, ! and ?, to which I can say @#$^%*!!!

C-Style syntax is simply slow. If you are spending considerable amounts of time thinking about what to write, the fact that the typing is slow may make little difference. However, that doesn't usually happen, in which case the C-style syntax could hardly be designed worse for people who are capable of typing with all their fingers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuggaloBrotha

VB can be a little faster to develop the same code, probably because the syntax is all english keywords instead of the beginning and closing brackets {} for everything.

---

Ah ok!

Quote:

---

I don't have any problems developing in c# but it does get very confusing at the bottom of a class file when you have this going on:

Code:

---

                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

---

It's very hard to tell which of those close an if block, which one closes a while loop, which one closes the function/sub and which one closes the class. I tend to label them with a line comment, but it seems like the c# IDE could put a //end while/if/etc automatically for every closing brace.

---

Yeah, I noticed that when I was learning javascript and php as part of my web development course which I finished last year.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I have used a variety of languages, including C++. I really liked the OO nature of C++, and was thrilled to see VB.NET show up and bring OO to VB. However, C++ is bad for reasons other than just all those silly semi-colons. The operators in C/C++ can make a complex bit fiddling operation look like line noise.

---

This is a bit off topic but what is the difference between c, c++ and c#? To me it seems to be the same language but each has something more to give than the last.

Edit II:

I'm in class at the moment and my lecturer explained the difference between the three c versions as basically an improvement on system security.

To put it bluntly c and c++ give you full access to a system without the security from hackers. Whereas c# allows you to do the same but has added security for the system because it uses framework.

C was the first, and didn't have any object oriented features. C++ was originally intended as an object oriented version of C. It has now become a standardized language in its own right, with a different standardization group from the C language. C# is basically a .NET version of C++. The syntax is the same, but C# is all managed code, and doesn't have some of the features that C++ has, such as multiple inheritance (which is a controversial bugger that interfaces largely replace).

Well, I think I can resolve this since it just seems to individual or company choice rather than Microsoft not continuing on with Visual Basic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuggaloBrotha

VB can be a little faster to develop the same code, probably because the syntax is all english keywords instead of the beginning and closing brackets {} for everything.

I don't have any problems developing in c# but it does get very confusing at the bottom of a class file when you have this going on:

Code:

---

                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

---

It's very hard to tell which of those close an if block, which one closes a while loop, which one closes the function/sub and which one closes the class. I tend to label them with a line comment, but it seems like the c# IDE could put a //end while/if/etc automatically for every closing brace.

---

This is totally down to personal preference!!

I actually prefer the braces in C# compared to If/End If, Using/End Using etc. There are so many built in features, and thrid party tools that make lining up these braces very easy, to class it as a problem is unfair in my opinion.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gep13

This is totally down to personal preference!!

I actually prefer the braces in C# compared to If/End If, Using/End Using etc. There are so many built in features, and thrid party tools that make lining up these braces very easy, to class it as a problem is unfair in my opinion.

Gary

---

If it was classified as a problem it'd be unfair in your opinion. All I said was that I don't have a problem then pointed out something about it that gets me confused frequently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gep13

This is totally down to personal preference!!

I actually prefer the braces in C# compared to If/End If, Using/End Using etc.

---

Ah, you find them bracing!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Ah, you find them bracing!!

---

ha ha :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by abhijit

I have seen companies pushing towards C# as well.

Today search on dice yields 5420 results for C# listings, but 1351 results for VB .NET

---

A couple of days ago one of my programming lecturers said Microsoft are discontinuing Visual Basic in favour of C# in 2017.

And where did he get that from?

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gep13

And where did he get that from?

Gary

---

I don't know! I'll ask him next class.

That is a good idea. You will need to get him to cite his reference, because everything I have heard states that VB.Net and C# will continue to be developed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

A couple of days ago one of my programming lecturers said Microsoft are discontinuing Visual Basic in favour of C# in 2017.

---

I haven't seen anything from Microsoft that supports that statement.

Hmm.... 8 years later, and that myth STILL persists? It's just that, a myth. It was started by some C# fanatics I'm sure, and was further reinforced by the lack of VB.NET examples in the early days of .NET on MSDN. I think it's fairly safe to conclude that the opposite is true. VB.NET is alive and well, and will continue to do so. This is the first I've seen a date attached to it. It's probably irrelevant anyways. We all know the world is going to end in 2012 any how.

-tg

He might not have even said Microsoft but in fact was referring to some local businesses changing over to c# from Visual Basic. Anyway, I'll ask him on Thursday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

He might not have even said Microsoft but in fact was referring to some local businesses changing over to c# from Visual Basic. Anyway, I'll ask him on Thursday.

---

Now that would be something completely different. A company deciding to only use one language going forward could mean that they are wanting some consistency across the development teams. For instance, in my work, we only code in C#.

Will be interesting to hear what your tutor was actually referring to.

Gary

2017?!?!?!

I would be astonished if MS was deciding what to drop or build seven years out.

That's a good point.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I have used a variety of languages, including C++. I really liked the OO nature of C++, and was thrilled to see VB.NET show up and bring OO to VB. However, C++ is bad for reasons other than just all those silly semi-colons. The operators in C/C++ can make a complex bit fiddling operation look like line noise. That may actually be the reason that C# is so popular. After all, in nearly every specialized industry, jargon rules. That isn't because there is a natural need for specialized words, there is also a pack mentality. If you can't speak the language, you can't join the club. I suspect that some of the allure of the C-style syntax has to do with wanting to have the appearance of knowledge so that your work has an appearance of value beyond its actual worth (though the worth itself can be high).

My other thought is that the C-style languages were created by the SPHPT (the Society for the Perpetuation of Hunt and Peck Typists). If you have ever taken a typing course, you have been taught to keep your fingers on the home row. The F and J keys have bumps on them so that you can check that your fingers are on the right keys. The fastests keys to hit are those under your most dexterous fingers, with those in the row above being second (and then there is the reasoning behind the QWERTY keyboard layout, but that's another rant). Moving up two rows to the number keys is much harder for most normal typists, as you generally can't reach them without moving your hands (you can't reach by extending your fingers alone). Using the upper register of those keys is even more miserable, yet C-style syntax relies very heavily on upper register, top row, keys, and even more miserable keys like {, }, |, ! and ?, to which I can say @#$^%*!!!

C-Style syntax is simply slow. If you are spending considerable amounts of time thinking about what to write, the fact that the typing is slow may make little difference. However, that doesn't usually happen, in which case the C-style syntax could hardly be designed worse for people who are capable of typing with all their fingers.

---

You are a brave man to even entertain thoughts that C doesn't sit at the right hand of God. May a crazed C-programmer charge up your sisters hoop skirt (Carnac). I miss Johnny :(

Well, my sister's husband certainly knows C, so your blessing may have come to pass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gep13

Will be interesting to hear what your tutor was actually referring to.

---

I was right the first time! I spoke to my lecturer during lunch today and he said that he was told by a Microsoft develop at one of the developer conferences that Microsoft are planning to stop releasing/ developing Visual Basic. It is an unofficial thing yet so Microsoft may chane their minds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

It is an unofficial thing yet so Microsoft may chane their minds.

---

That must be why nobody can find a single mention of this on the Web anywhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

I was right the first time! I spoke to my lecturer during lunch today and he said that he was told by a Microsoft develop at one of the developer conferences that Microsoft are planning to stop releasing/ developing Visual Basic. It is an unofficial thing yet so Microsoft may chane their minds.

---

Do we know who this developer was?

I am still dubious about this.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dilettante

That must be why nobody can find a single mention of this on the Web anywhere.

---

You don't say! :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gep13

Do we know who this developer was?

---

I didn't ask even if I did he probably wouldn't tell me or even remember.

Quote:

---

I am still dubious about this.

---

So am I but if it is true then it will reduce the number of languages we have to learn. Maybe they will combine C# and vb so the one language language can do what two did before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

So am I but if it is true then it will reduce the number of languages we have to learn. Maybe they will combine C# and vb so the one language language can do what two did before.

---

In my opinion, this is completely the wrong approach!!

You shouldn't be trying to learn one language over the other. You should instead by learning the Framework. i.e. what classes do what, and what methods are available on these classes etc.

Once you know what you want to do, and how it can be done, it is simply a matter of syntax, which once you know the basic rules, is not that difficult to flip between C# and VB.Net. Plus there are always samples in both languages in MSDN.

As for combining the two languages, there are very few operations that can only be done in one particular language anymore.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gep13

You shouldn't be trying to learn one language over the other. You should instead by learning the Framework. i.e. what classes do what, and what methods are available on these classes etc.

---

I agree! The Framework can't be that different if different at all.

Quote:

---

As for combining the two languages, there are very few operations that can only be done in one particular language anymore.

---

So why have both?

The Framework is the same, regardless of the language.

The semantics of the language, i.e. curly braces, or If/End If, etc, come down to how things have been done historically, and some developers prefer one over the other. i.e. if you have done Java/C++ development in the past etc.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

I agree! The Framework can't be that different if different at all.



So why have both?

---

Actually there's only 1 Framework (the entire thing was coded in c#) and all .Net languages use this one Framework. This is one of the fundamental reasons why .Net is the way it is. All .Net languages compile down to the same MSIL code that runs in the CLR, so when executing, your vb.net code compiles to the same MSIL code as your c#, J#, C++.Net, etc code does. vb.net and c# is only different (by syntax) to the developer and that's basically it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuggaloBrotha

Actually there's only 1 Framework (the entire thing was coded in c#) and all .Net languages use this one Framework.

---

Not true: parts of it are C++, parts of it even in VB.Net.

Quote:

---

Interestingly there is some VB code in the framework, the Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll is written in Visual Basic .NET, but that's the only bit I believe.

---

Nearly true though.

The actual compilers and most tools, the CLR, and big parts of the IDE are C++.

Not that much of that really matters much.


I'm still awaiting the Grand Reunification of .Net with Java. Then we might end up with a single language hybridizing Java and C#.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dilettante

Not true: parts of it are C++, parts of it even in VB.Net.

Nearly true though.

The actual compilers and most tools, the CLR, and big parts of the IDE are C++.

---

I was told by an MS person in the vbf slow chat that the FW was made all in c#, the CLR was made in c++ and the VS IDE was made in c# & vb.net

So according to MS, the FW was made in c# like I said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dilettante

Not that much of that really matters much.


I'm still awaiting the Grand Reunification of .Net with Java. Then we might end up with a single language hybridizing Java and C#.

---

Hmmm, a unification between MS and Oracle. I highly doubt that'd ever happen, let alone a "reunification".

Quote:

---

I was told by an MS person in the vbf slow chat that the FW was made all in c#, the CLR was made in c++ and the VS IDE was made in c# & vb.net

So according to MS, the FW was made in c# like I said.

---

that tracks with what I've seen in the FW, and what I've been told by the VS Developers on more than one occasion.
In fact the VS2010 IDE (the GUI part) was done in XAML. It's one of the reasons some of us have issues with it.

-tg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by techgnome

that tracks with what I've seen in the FW, and what I've been told by the VS Developers on more than one occasion.
In fact the VS2010 IDE (the GUI part) was done in XAML. It's one of the reasons some of us have issues with it.

-tg

---

XAML is just a styling thing, the code behind the GUI layout is probably mostly c# (though some features are probably in vb.net still) but I'd bet more of VS2010 is in c# than anything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by techgnome

It's one of the reasons some of us have issues with it.

---

Out of curiosity, like what?

The delay and the repainting that goes on when switching from code to the designer, and vice versa... That was the biggest one for me.

-tg

Hmm, I can't say that I have seen this issue, but then I am mainly in web applications, going between ASPX and code. Are you talking about switching between Windows Forms and Code?

Gary

Quote:

---

The delay and the repainting that goes on when switching from code to the designer, and vice versa... That was the biggest one for me.

---

Are you using XP, Vista or Win 7 ?

Gary - winForms...
NSA - Take your pick: XP & Win7.

It's a known problem... I've seen several people complain about it. It has to do with the IDE compiling the form in the background when you switch. Doesn't seem to be a lot that can be done about it.

-tg

What I don't like is if you're in the code window and you use a control by name (and you haven't renamed it on the form itself yet) so you use the new name in code first then when you switch to the form to name the control (so the code compiles) you can't because the stupid IDE shows the form's compile error message and not the form with the controls on it. Which leaves me having to go back to the code, change the variable then go to the form, rename the control and then go back to the code... it's one of the larger reasons to why I'm not using VS 2010 much at all. Also the default syntax highlighting bugs (whoever picked class names to be shown in light green when the code window is white should be shot) and changing it all to VS2008's highlighting is huge pain since there's way to many color options to change to get it right, I just dont bother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by techgnome

Gary - winForms...
NSA - Take your pick: XP & Win7.

It's a known problem... I've seen several people complain about it. It has to do with the IDE compiling the form in the background when you switch. Doesn't seem to be a lot that can be done about it.

-tg

---

Interesting. I will need to keep an eye out for this then.

I am away to be getting my head into Windows Forms again soon.

Gary

I'm also less-than-impressed at VS2010's IDE. The UI is sluggish for me as well (Win7 Ultimate on an Intel i7) compared to 2008 and the highlighting default options stink. It also seems to annoyingly and hyper-actively jump on errors before you get done typing the line much like how C# 2k8 behaves. I have noticed I get a lot more designer compile errors as well when I code for some of the stupidest things.

That's the other major complaint I hear... and it comes from the overly aggressive background compiler. That annoys me less than simply switching from form designer to code and back again... From designer to code I get... it's picking up any UI changes... but going from code to designer... it shouldn't... but eh, it is what it is.

-tg