[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God

First of all, I never said a 'better'

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Originally Posted by Me

And from your slightly broader perspective

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And befor you say it, I know you didn't say I did.:D

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

First of all, I never said a 'better' perspective, I said broader

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So a broader perspective is Not a better perspective?:D
If so, my perspective must be better! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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5Ms? I had wanted to respond to your points too but......

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I'm so disappointed :cry: :cry: :cry:

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(I really need a life)...

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I have a life!, You can share my life, but I think you'd be disappointed :(

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and I've run out of steam.

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No stamina A! :sick:

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Your making some good points.

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You're the only one that think so. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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but could I direct you to the quote function.

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How am I doing with the quote function. :thumb:

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Without it your posts can be really hard to follow.

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It can be really hard for me to follow my thoughts, so why should it not, be really hard for you to follow my posts.:p
It's hard to Write, so should be hard to read :p

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Nah. I for one fully intend to come back and tell you why you're wrong about everything but I'm struggling to find the time lately. I'm still reading though.

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I still would like to know why? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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FD, I liked your post so much that I intend to steal some of the points, especially the one about religion not being the actual cause, but just the fig leaf (see, I can alter it just enough that it isn't outright theft). However, since this is chit chat, I feel that I should use all of my effort to ridicule you over taking an hour to write such a modest missive. Unfortunately, the only way I can think to do so is to suggest that you improve your typing speed. Other than that, you're going to have to come up with the rest of what I should say on your own.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

That doesn't mean we can't give the opposping view credence, or that we won't, but it does mean that we're considerably less likely to. In that context I would argue that anyone who hasn't made their mind about any argument has a broader perspective in that argument.

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I've seen many people faced with subjects with known truths, those that could make their minds up, more often had a broader perspective and higher IQ.

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Are you being serious ?

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Yes, absolutely. I may not get atheists knocking on my door asking if I've heard the good news (although at 37 that's still only actually happened once with a theist)
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Atheists knocking on my door with the good news, never has happened
Theist knocking last month 3, but a good average is12 a year, in 50 years would be 600 times,
And if you think about it, an average of 2.5 times saying "No Thank you, I'm not interested" , 1500 times saying No Thanks.
Looks like I need to get a BIG dog like you have.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Religions (excluding the slightly fruity ones like satanism, which aren't really the ones we're talking about here anyway) universally preach tolerance, peace and love for your fellow man.

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Actually if you read the Satanic bible it in no way encourages any form of unpleasantness. It clearly states that people like that are not very good people and not wanted in their religion. You are thinking of the version that the bible has very efficiently convinced everybody to believe throughout history. They dont want you to like the competition.

I am an Athiest because I do not believe in a God. People who need that sort of thing will obviously believe. But it doesnt stop me from being a volunteer at the local church charity. Because they know not to shove it down my throat. I told them right from the start.

Religious fanatics who chase me down the street or bang on my door get told too. I will convert you to Satanism, and they very quickly leave me alone.

Good Post FD

Now as we have already established that i am a pedant in another post i will now attempt to correct you were ever possible :)

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But then I don't think you're really objecting to theists who don't proselytise either are you?

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your right i am not !

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First of all, I never said a 'better' perspective, I said broader

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Fair enough but is broader always better ?

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The very act of "making up one's mind" about anything must, by definition, involve closing that mind to some extent.

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While this is true, this is something we do every day and is inherent in human behaviour. Also making you mind up does not have to mean that you are close minded.

If you test a theory and can prove the outcome, then it is not closing your mind to say the x = x and no x does not = y.

For Instance the theory of Gravity is a theory we can prove because we can observe its affects upon us and things around us.

For someone to then say that Gravity is a by product of human waste gases and if no one farted we would all float of into space, then my mind is fairly closed to this argument as i suspect so is yours.

But if miraculously someone was able to prove it to me then i personally would be happy to change my opinion and alter my thinking, surely this is an example of being open minded ?

What you find (rather unsurprisingly) with religion (and yes this is a rather large generalisation) is that in the face of all other evidence people who are religious will at times believe things that are completely incredulous and when faced with evidence will hide behind there belief.

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I don't believe any war has truly been fought or persecution pursued because of religion

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This may have to be one of those areas were we disagree, if you look back through history there have been religious crusades (and i don't just mean the Christian ones although they a rather good example) who's purpose was to retake the holy land and kill or convert the (mainly Muslim) enemy.

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In this thread you yourself (and I think your arguments been very measured, well put together and innoffensive on the whole and I really wish you'd given me some better examples to quote) have compared God to Father Christmas and called Christians deluded.

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Ah now that not strictly true, i did not compare God to Father Christmas, i compared the belief in God to the belief in Father Christmas which is slightly different :rolleyes:

However i do understand your point but how on earth are you supposed to have an argument about something without at least annoying somebody !!!

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but I do get atheists taking out banners on buses

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Oh come on i have seen those banners, you have to be pretty uptight to be bothered by them, i see signs up everyday by a church i walk past which says "Jesus died for your sins" but i don't get offended. I am not offended by advertising :)

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I have no desire to convert anyone to atheism
Possibly not, but viewed from the outside that is how it appears I'm afraid.

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Ah yes but you just judging from the contents of this thread, i can assure you in real life you wouldn't even know i was an athiest :) and i am about as militant about it as i am about cheese.

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I'll do that when you can show me a war where the underlying cause is not either greed or desparation.

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What about the war on Terror ?

[quote]taking an hour to write such a modest missive.[quote]It's... 'cause... I... type... real... slooooooooow. Actually I spent most of the time scrolling back and forwards between the previous posts while I was putting my argument together.

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Actually if you read the Satanic bible it in no way encourages any form of unpleasantness.

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I've heard of "Satan's Bible" which is basically a Christian bible with some extra sections refering to mysticism etc. and a rather snazzy picture of a daemon in it. Is that what you're referring to? If so it's not really the bible that a Satanist would view as their sacred book is it? In truth I don't know much about either it (beyond what I've seen on the discovery channel - it was quite interesting) or the modern day Church of Satan so I won't argue with you. All I was really doing was trying to pre-empt the inevitable "Aha, but what about Satanism" response someone would have come up with had I just said "All religions teach compassion".

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Fair enough but is broader always better ?

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No. That's why I made the distinction.

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it is not closing your mind to say the x = x and no x does not = y

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Yes it is... but it's a scenario in which closing your mind is a good thing. There's a provable truth: x does equal x.

On the gravity thing, a broader perspective would be to say "it might be caused by people farting", that's probably not a better perspective though.

At which point a a broader perspective becomes a better perspective depends on the provability of the argument and that is, of course, entirely subjective.

The crusades are another example of a conflict justified by religion rather than caused by it. The Turks had taken Jerusalem and were threatening Byzantium so the Byzantine Emperor called for help. This clearly comes under the banner of desparation. He wasn't worried because they were Muslims, he was worried because they were threatening his city. He'd have been just as worried is they were Christian. And the fact that he then closed his gates to teh Crusaders when they turned up and that they proceeded to sack his city demonstrates quite amply that both he and the crusaders were motivated by greed.

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i did not compare God to Father Christmas, i compared the belief in God to the belief in Father Christmas which is slightly different

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That's entirely true and I was just clumsy in the way I quoted you, sorry for that. I think my point still stands, though, it's the atheistic side of the debate that generally introdcuces that type of language into the debate. Just to be clear, I really don't think you're particularly guilty of it and I had to try quite hard to find examples. The types of atheists I was referring to as shrill are ALOT worse than I imagine you've ever been - but they do most certainly exist.

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War on Terrorism

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Bit of greed, bit of desparation. If you believe that America's gone to war for oil then the greed is definitely in there (I will make no judgement on that point for fear of derailing the thread) and the self protection that is encompassed by the motivation to prevent terrorism is, IMO a form of desparation. Perhaps Self preservation might have been a better term for me to use than desparation but I'd happily conflate the two and, either way, it's certainly nothing to do with religion.

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we have already established that i am a pedant

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Wear the badge with pride, brother. I'm with you all the way:afrog:.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

I've heard of "Satan's Bible" which is basically a Christian bible with some extra sections refering to mysticism etc. and a rather snazzy picture of a daemon in it. Is that what you're referring to? If so it's not really the bible that a Satanist would view as their sacred book is it? In truth I don't know much about either it (beyond what I've seen on the discovery channel - it was quite interesting) or the modern day Church of Satan so I won't argue with you. All I was really doing was trying to pre-empt the inevitable "Aha, but what about Satanism" response someone would have come up with had I just said "All religions teach compassion".

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It's definitely The Satanic Bible by a rather odd chap called Anton Szandor LaVey. Nothing like the Christian bible though. More of a wiccan religion with lots of spells and incantations to get the girls to do strange things for you. They practice enjoying life as opposed to the rather strict abstention demanded by the Catholics which is probably why they have never got along. It's actually quite a good read for a load of rubbish.

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Wicca is the religion practiced by witches. No, they don't fly around on brooms or wear a big, black hat. They worship nature and don't believe in hurting anything, even insects. Wiccans heal illnesses with herbs. Find out more about modern day witches below.

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Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers

and i am about as militant about it as i am about cheese.

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A cheesy militant, Mmmmm!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Theist knocking last month 3,

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Have you considered moving out of Utah?! Genuinely, I'm staggered by that figure.

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HoHow am I doing with the quote function

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MUCH better:bigyello:

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

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Theist knocking last month 3,

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Have you considered moving out of Utah?! Genuinely, I'm staggered by that figure.

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Nah, a BIG!!!!!!!!! dog :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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taking an hour to write such a .........

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It's... 'cause... I... type... real... slooooooooow. Actually I spent most of the time scrolling back and forwards between the previous posts while I was putting my argument together.

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No surprisingly.
It took me 3 hours to write this. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Their both mythological beings you pathetic, pontificating, pantheistic, poop! I don't believe in the physical incarnation of either one of them...or something like that...or whatever. However, if you want to take it on faith that they exist, then I take it on faith that I believe you may do so.

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I'll take that with a twist of sarcasm and humour (giving the benifit of the doubt)as I’m most definitely sure you are not using profanity do describe me.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

It's not the pulling out of individual bits and pieces that's the problem. It's doing so while disregarding of the overall message of the whole that's the problem. Religions (excluding the slightly fruity ones like satanism, which aren't really the ones we're talking about here anyway) universally preach tolerance, peace and love for your fellow man.

The horror... the horror...:lol:

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Then you guys are ignoring all of the Old Testament and all of Revelations aren't you?

That's some deep cherry picking.

This guy's hilarious: Pat Condell's Godless Comedy

He sounds like a true atheist. If he's an agnostic theist, he doesn't indicate it. :D

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Originally Posted by Jenner

This guy's hilarious: Pat Condell's Godless Comedy

He sounds like a true atheist. If he's an agnostic theist, he doesn't indicate it. :D

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
- Benjamin Franklin

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A must see!

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Wicca is the religion practiced by witches. No, they don't fly around on brooms or wear a big, black hat. They worship nature and don't believe in hurting anything, even insects. Wiccans heal illnesses with herbs. Find out more about modern day witches below.

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wicca is not the only religion practiced by witches. I think it odd really that it's considered a religion, period. But as for the flying on a broomstick, this actually has an interesting source. Hallucinogenic drugs were rubbed on a stick which was used in a naked ritual for enlightenment. I will spare you the details, but use your mind here and figure out how flying a broomstick arose from these three things: A naked woman, a hallucinogenic trip, and an unmentioned method of delivery of said drug that involves it being absorbed through a mucous membrane that only women have...

Wicca is "A" religion practiced by "SOME" witches. Evil people can practice magic too...

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

Evil people can practice magic too...

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Evil people can practice Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Never met a bad Buddhist though. I have seen one get angry once but that was just a very disturbing thing.

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He sounds like a true atheist.

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He sounds like an idiot.

FunkyDexter

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He sounds like an idiot.

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Who?, Pat Condell, or Benjamin Franklin

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

I will spare you the details

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:down:
Don't bother to spare us!.
Could be a good read!.:D:thumb:

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Pat Condell, or Benjamin Franklin

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Pat Condell. Anyone who states at the top of their page that they 'don't care about my opinion' and 'will offend me' pretty much precludes any chance of my bothering to listen to them. I gave his video about 5 minutes of my time (which I'd quite like back now) and it confirmed to me that his opinions were exactly what I'd expect from someone who kicked off with that header line. He's exactly the sort of self-righteously shrill proselytising atheist I was referring to previously.

Mind you, Ben Franklin was a bit of an idiot too. Seriously, who flies a kite in a thunderstorm? :bigyello: Only joking.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Pat Condell. Anyone who states at the top of their page that they 'don't care about my opinion' and 'will offend me' pretty much precludes any chance of my bothering to listen to them. I gave his video about 5 minutes of my time (which I'd quite like back now) and it confirmed to me that his opinions were exactly what I'd expect from someone who kicked off with that header line. He's exactly the sort of self-righteously shrill proselytising atheist I was referring to previously.

Mind you, Ben Franklin was a bit of an idiot too. Seriously, who flies a kite in a thunderstorm? :bigyello: Only joking.

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the top of his page,
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I don't respect your beliefs and
I don't care if you are offended.
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Hmmm
Quite honestly,

Theists never respect your or my beliefs or care if you or I are offended!,
if they knock on your or my door,
and you or I say nicely "No Thank you, I'm not interested", do they go away, ah No No NO!
This is why I have the 3 time rill.

Theists quoting the Bible or Revelations at you and I,
Is that respecting your or my beliefs and caring if you or I are offended!?

Theists respecting your or my beliefs.
i.e

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Originally Posted by KTech

I think they are making progress actually.
Through 5 years of Catholic school the nuns just avoided all of these questions
(and beat the crap out of anyone who asked them).

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Theists respecting your or my beliefs.
i.e

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Originally Posted by chris128

there are these 3 guys that stand in our town centre every single day shouting stuff
like "join us and worship jeesus" and "god will forgive you for your sins"
etc etc and I just think surely God would rather you just lived your life to the fullest rather
than wasting it standing in town all day preaching to people that are just trying to ignore you.

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Theists respecting your or my beliefs.
i.e
Posting a thread like "[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God",
and then argue with your reply

pat condell will go away if you close the page, he will not knock on your door, he would not ask you a question and then argue with your reply, he would not beat the crap out of you for asking a question.

This confirmed to me, that his opinions, were exactly what I'd expect, honest, Sincere and truthful
from someone who kicked off with that header line.
+ that header line, says if you do not want the truth, close the page.

:D
:bigyello:

Interesting thread on a programming forum :)
I think this question comes down to age - teens or younger adults like to rebel, they don't like the existing system - which includes religion

My personal view is that there may be somethings beyond our perception as an organic species.. God to me, is simply what I don't perceive - which could be a whole lot or nothing at all.

AHHHH! 322 posts later and of course several hours to read all of them - in one fell swoop.
Damn I wish Id been part of VBforums Prior to this great thread, among other reasons(great programming resource). I am going to have to post something on the subject with regards to responding to some of you!

For now my views, God is simply unsubstantiated by fact, theory or type science. Yea, there is the oceans of religious beliefs and certainties that people have. Just not enough for me for now. So it makes it quite difficult for me to go that way. However Ive had experiences in my life that albeit amazing and to me miraculous cant automatically mean there is a god. It simply means that some amazing coincidence has happened. And really, that's not too far fetched, considering the shier volume of people and events happening every second on this planet. To this thread, I'm open to both sides, very compelling, though I do already have a belief set that I work from thought Im not as closed minded as some - the miraculous events in my life.

To the big posters like NSA, FD, 5ms, zaza, and others (will edit). Some of you have amazing insight and either a great memory of what you have learned through life, or an uncanny ability to research the $HlT out of a subject and create grounds for debate. I am just blown away by some of you guys who are apparently religious history teachers(and would you believe some of the most heavily researched arguments on here come from the agnostics and atheists). Take note, I said SOME, not all, both sides have come in with some serious ammo.

Amazing read, thanks to all contributors! I will add here soon. However, as I said, I just read the whole damn thread, so there's about a hundred ways to go and another 30+ people to quote. Give me some time. Till then, please...Continue...Really...Please.

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Originally Posted by Nicelydone

It simply means that some amazing coincidence has happened.

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Alot of current scientific theory in quantum physics can't explain why tiny particles act irrationally. Some theories suggest an extra dimension, that is infinitely small to us...

Doesn't that mean we have a gap of understanding on the deeper logic behind our reality?

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Originally Posted by OrdinaryGuy

Alot of current scientific theory in quantum physics can't explain why tiny particles act irrationally. Some theories suggest an extra dimension, that is infinitely small to us...

Doesn't that mean we have a gap of understanding on the deeper logic behind our reality?

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i'm kind of partial to the loop theory myself. It's like string theory but the string ends are connected. Supposedly it's what matter is made of at the quantum level.

5ms, the difference is that someone knocking on your door isn't trying to offend you. They may do so as a side affect but that's not their motivation. This guy, on the other, clearly lives to offend. Presumably because he thinks that makes him appear clever and important.

As an aside (not really about religion but something that's been bothering me for a while), there's alot been shouted lately about people's right to offend. We do, indeed, have a right to offend (and that's wonderful because it also gives us the ability to criticise without fear of reprisal) but if you're going to exercise it purely for the sake of exercising it then you're still a butthole. I have to say, this guy comes across to me as wanting to offend purely for the sake of it.

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Is that respecting your or my beliefs and caring if you or I are offended!?

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Of course, this is how religions are spread. And let's face it, you are more likely going to convert an athiest than someone who believes a different god or religion. They have most likely been brought up that way. I have a conspiracy theory about this: I think that the reason the catholic church is against birth control is it ensures more catholics will be born, thus overwhelming the opposition with sheer numbers. And speaking of Vatican City... Who paid for it? Do they get a tithe from every church in the world?

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this guy comes across to me as wanting to offend purely for the sake of it.

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sounds like about 2/3 of fox news talking heads.

I guess Pat Condell's brand of comedy is just lost of some people. I'll admit, British comedy can be perceived as dry. :D

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

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we have already established that i am a pedant

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Wear the badge with pride, brother. I'm with you all the way:afrog:.

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Hmmm, would that make you a pendant-file?

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Originally Posted by Davadvice

I'll take that with a twist of sarcasm and humour (giving the benifit of the doubt)as I’m most definitely sure you are not using profanity do describe me.

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That would be best. I was actually just going for the alliteration, rather than any meaning.

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I guess Pat Condell's brand of comedy is just lost of some people. I'll admit, British comedy can be perceived as dry.

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I am a Brit and that's not dry or comedy. Can you find me a single gag in it anywhere? All I heard was a tirade.

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would that make you a pendant-file?

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I work just outside Portsmouth. Gag's like that could get me lynched, you know. (For those who don't get the reference, when the Sun newspaper started naming and shaming poedophiles a few years ago, Portsmouth residents got a bit confused and beat up a poedeotrician)

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

I am a Brit and that's not dry or comedy. Can you find me a single gag in it anywhere? All I heard was a tirade.

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I found "Ban the Burka" especially humorous:

"Most Muslims know full well that the burka has nothing at all to do with their religion... there's nothing in the Koran about women dressing up like Darth Vadar." :)

Come on, you gotta admit. That's funny. That could be a quote from any one of a dozen world class comedian's routines. I can picture George Carlin using that line right now.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

5ms, the difference is that someone knocking on your door isn't trying to offend you. They may do so as a side affect but that's not their motivation. This guy, on the other, clearly lives to offend. Presumably because he thinks that makes him appear clever and important.

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No, Sorry!, FunkyDexter.
He says,

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"I don't care if you are offended."

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He's not saying "I'll try to offend you.",
And he didn't offend me.
He's voice his belief, but a Free Thinker, theists are offended by that, and Freedom of speech.
That's why we do not need "The One Law For All".
Down with "Free Thinkers" and "Freedom of speech" , abolish, abolish, abolish!.
A new law now!, "Sharia law".

I don’t think he is an extremist.

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The last time I saw the doctor, she looked at my file.
“I see you’re a vegetarian. Is that for health or moral reasons?”

I’ve been asked this so many times, I’m ready for it now.

“Neither. I just do it to annoy people.”
“What?”
“Yes, at a dinner party or in a restaurant I like to be the person for whom special arrangements always have to be made, just to put everybody’s nose out of joint.”

I managed to keep a straight face, but I don’t think she believed me.

“Do you eat fish?”
“No.”
“Some vegetarians do.”
“That’s like saying some Buddhists worship Allah.”
“What about eggs?”
“Nope.”
“Cheese?”
“Sorry.”
“Isn’t that a bit extreme?”
“Depends what you mean by extreme. That skirt you’re wearing, would you say that’s extreme?”
“No.”
“Well, I wouldn’t wear it, not even for a bet. It’s too extreme for me.”

Actually, I only said the last bit in my head, but I still felt it counted.

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And he says, on his "ORIGINAL SITE"

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Actually, my problem is not with God, but with God's little helpers, the ones who take it upon themselves to police the rest of us on his behalf.

These people give religion a bad name, which, given its history, takes some doing.

They wear their ignorance as a badge of honour, and they hold very strong opinions about what other people should think.

Plus they’ve managed to insinuate themselves into a position where their beliefs are given equal weight with real ideas, and are allowed to affect our lives in all sorts of ridiculous ways.


If all this sounds like your cup of tea, please come along to the show and have a few laughs.
Alternatively, .............

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On his CONTACT page

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AN ADVANCE APOLOGY

I welcome e-mails, and I'm keen to hear everyone's opinion, but please don't be offended if I don't reply, as I'm now getting hundreds every day and it has become impossible to answer them all. For this reason please don't write me any long essays. I won't read them.

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DID YOU SEE HIS FEEDBACK !!!
Theists.
W..o...w. :eek:

There love!, with respect!, and them trying!! not to offend, the Saints!!!.

All I can say is Wow!. :eek:
And now I know what to say to door knockers. :thumb: :bigyello:


And his FAQ

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Q: Why do you hate faith?
A: Why do you hate reality?

Q: You don’t know what it means to have faith.
A: I don’t know what it means to you, and I don’t want to know. That’s kind of the point.

Q: I live in the American Bible Belt, and I’m afraid of social repercussions if I tell people I’m an atheist.
A: Well, I guess you’ll have to spend the rest of your life living a lie. Good luck with that.


Q: No, seriously. People would treat me like some kind of leper.
A: Take it as a compliment.

Q:............................
A:............................

Q:............................
A:............................

Q:............................
A: OK, you win. :lol: :lol:

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:D

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Originally Posted by Jenner

I guess Pat Condell's brand of comedy is just lost of some people. I'll admit, British comedy can be perceived as dry. :D

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British comedy, well, the gulf between the author of dry wit, and the person who doesn't get it, can be GR8!!.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

British comedy, well, the gulf between the author of dry wit, and the person who doesn't get it, can be GR8!!.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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I'm a fan of black adder, the original hitchiker's tv series, and a few others. I like my comedy like my martinis. The dryer the better.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

(For those who don't get the reference, when the Sun newspaper started naming and shaming poedophiles a few years ago, Portsmouth residents got a bit confused and beat up a poedeotrician)

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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:lol:

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

I'm a fan of black adder, the original hitchiker's tv series, and a few others.

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Hitchhiker's? I loved the book. Never saw (or heard) the TV or radio series.

Black Adder? Funny, but Rowan Atkinson got a bit tiresome. Stephen Fry is always amusing though.

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Originally Posted by Jenner

"Most Muslims know full well that the burka has nothing at all to do with their religion... there's nothing in the Koran about women dressing up like Darth Vadar." :)

Come on, you gotta admit. That's funny.

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I've heard funnier from schoolchildren.

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Originally Posted by penagate

I've heard funnier from schoolchildren.

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funny you brought this up. A coworker just mutilated a joke trying to tell it to me and someone else. He's 17 and i heard the off color joke nearly thirty years ago. Some jokes never die, no matter how bad. It involved a guy sinking in quicksand and the lengths he was asked to go to to get pulled out. When he offered said lenghts to a final guy the guy said "sicko" and stomped him under. classic. literally.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

funny you brought this up. A coworker just mutilated a joke trying to tell it to me and someone else. He's 17 and i heard the off color joke nearly thirty years ago. Some jokes never die, no matter how bad. It involved a guy sinking in quicksand and the lengths he was asked to go to to get pulled out. When he offered said lenghts to a final guy the guy said "sicko" and stomped him under. classic. literally.

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Don't know that one.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

I'm a fan of black adder, the original hitchiker's tv series, and a few others. I like my comedy like my martinis. The dryer the better.

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black adder:check:
original hitchiker's:check:
martinis:)
dry martinis:down:

If God exist, people who believe say God is the greatest. But i have come across many instances in my life where the so called God has been the greatest villain. God if surely exists then he takes pleasure by making people miserable so that they live in fear and pray for revival. If at all God exist and right now is listening, "shame on you!! God."

ddemtrius456 is the second member I've seen in the past 2 weeks that are banned with only 1 post. I see the above post was edited by si_the_geek so I'm thinking it's probable that what was edited out got him banned.

God can be hard on his children sometimes but it is for their own good. He wants us all to learn our lessons. Actually God isn't ever hard on us but He has put laws in place and if we don't live our lives in harmony with those laws then we create our own suffering. The more aware we become and the more we are tuned in to His laws the happier we will be. We suffer because we fail to understand. "With all thy getting get understanding." Proverbs 4:7

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Originally Posted by ddemetrius456

If God exist, people who believe say God is the greatest. But i have come across many instances in my life where the so called God has been the greatest villain. God if surely exists then he takes pleasure by making people miserable so that they live in fear and pray for revival. If at all God exist and right now is listening, "shame on you!! God."

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You are a Proselytizing sinner,

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Galatians 1:8 — “But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be anathema!" Then also, 1 Corinthians 16:22 — "If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be anathema."

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So in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Excommunication!

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In 2nd John vv. 10 & 11, "whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house [οικιαν, residence or abode, or "inmates of the house" (family)], neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds".

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You are barred from participating, but would not be barred from attending.
:wave::D :wave: :eek2:

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Originally Posted by EntityX

God can be hard on his children sometimes but it is for their own good. He wants us all to learn our lessons. Actually God isn't ever hard on us but He has put laws in place and if we don't live our lives in harmony with those laws then we create our own suffering. The more aware we become and the more we are tuned in to His laws the happier we will be. We suffer because we fail to understand. "With all thy getting get understanding." Proverbs 4:7

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Yes.
Thank you very much god/si_the_geek.

can anyone explain why people lament "why are you doing this to me god" or say "god wouldnt' let that happen" even though his stepping in would kill free will. My free will lets me break your legs with a baseball bat or steal or rob or rape. What did the victim do to deserve what my free will let me do? If there is a god, the religion is wrong about what he's all about. He's either a controller or an ignorer. He can't be both.

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Originally Posted by lord orwell

can anyone explain why people lament "why are you doing this to me god" or say "god wouldnt' let that happen" even though his stepping in would kill free will. My free will lets me break your legs with a baseball bat or steal or rob or rape. What did the victim do to deserve what my free will let me do? If there is a god, the religion is wrong about what he's all about. He's either a controller or an ignorer. He can't be both.

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y...................

God's hand is evident in ever thing.
So why lament?, I don't!!!
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.

god makes you break my legs with a baseball bat, and makes you steal, and makes you rape.
Why mourn?

god can be hard on as sometimes, but it is for your own good. He wants us all to learn our lessons.

I've been meaning to come back on this for some time but to spend enough time looking at Pat Condell's site in order to formulate a decent response was such a horrific prospect that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Stillsince the thread's wended it's way back up the forum I finally plucked up the courage.

I just thought I'd post a few quotes from his site:-

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is religious belief a form of mental illness, or is it just a bit of fun ?

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Is Jerusalem a holy city? Or is it a vortex of evil, a psychic energy drain feeding directly into the maw of Satan?

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Don't get me wrong. I’m not saying religion doesn’t have its uses. Personally I turn to it whenever I want my intelligence insulted

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Religion disapproves of original thought the way Dracula disapproves of sunlight.

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after the mandatory bloodbath (we are dealing with religion after all)

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Islam doesn’t stand for any nonsense. Actually I take that back. It stands for a lot of nonsense, like any religion

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Now, are you really trying to tell me that this guy doesn't set out to offend? There isn't a single cogent argument or witty quip on his site. Just a series of insults. This is exactly the kind of guy who will argue that he must have the right to offend. Not because it gives him the ability to raise real concerns without fear of reprisal, though (which is why we must have that right), but rather he gets off on being offensive.

If I were to start a thread and start saying that VB.NET is stupid, some VB.NET developers would get offended but some C# programmers will find it witty.

If I were to start a thread and start saying that people living in New Jersey are bad and list out a bunch of reasons, some people will get offended, and some will find it humorous.

He's doing the same thing with religious beliefs. You won't find it witty because, as in the other cases, you are taking it personally since it's an attack upon a reflection of your beliefs? Part of the point he's demonstrating (unintentionally perhaps) is that while it's OK to insult someone else's baseball team, it should be OK to insult someone else's beliefs. I didn't mention football teams because I know that can get you stabbed here.

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

God's hand is evident in ever thing.
So why lament?, I don't!!!
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.

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So you can do anything you want to because you're going to do it anyway?

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

So you can do anything you want to because you're going to do it anyway?

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No......!
Because it's gods will, you have to do it, like dee-u says,

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Originally Posted by dee-u

How about everything that surrounds you? How about your breath? Are these things not convincing enough that someone great has made all of them?

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god's hand is evident in ever thing.
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.
Even My breathing is not free will, it's gods will.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

I've been meaning to come back on this for some time but to spend enough time looking at Pat Condell's site in order to formulate a decent response was such a horrific prospect that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Stillsince the thread's wended it's way back up the forum I finally plucked up the courage.

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

I just thought I'd post a few quotes from his site:-

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gr...8 quotes.
:lol: :lol:

Thank you very very much!
:wave:

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Originally Posted by mendhak

If I were to start a thread and start saying that VB.NET is stupid, some VB.NET developers would get offended but some C# programmers will find it witty.

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C# is lame, to be a programmer you need to program in Assembly, and to be a rill programmer then you need to program in binary.:rolleyes:
:lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

No......!
Because it's gods will, you have to do it, like dee-u says,

god's hand is evident in ever thing.
We do not have free will, we think We do, but We don't.
Even My breathing is not free will, it's gods will.

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I did mention those as evidences that God should exist. Please don't confuse the two things. We have our own free will and God is not suppose to control it. If you want to stop your breath then you may do so, God will not stop you, its your will.

If He controls our free will then our world should not have been a mess like it is now.

I'm confused.

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Originally Posted by dee-u

How about everything that surrounds you? How about your breath? Are these things not convincing enough that someone great has made all of them?

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Originally Posted by dee-u

I did mention those as evidences that God should exist. Please don't confuse the two things. We have our own free will and God is not suppose to control it. If you want to stop your breath then you may do so, God will not stop you, its your will.

If He controls our free will then our world should not have been a mess like it is now.

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So I made My breath, and of My own free will.
I'm convinced! that someone great made My breath, that someone is (Me!).

Nobody great made mendhak's breath. Surround yourself with that, and you too will be convinced that there cannot be a God.

5ms don't be so shy about posting in this thread and come on I know you can do better than 4 consecutive posts.