[Serious]Why are you not a believer of the existence of God

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

i am also going to have to disagree. The old testament actually cites some examples and none of them involve group murder.

One is if your neighbor causes your animal to die you have the right to take one of his. It's a simplified "keep the books even" philosophy.

And it's also interesting to note that Jesus stated that this law no longer applies. the "unchanging eternal law" was changed according to him. Now he wants you to present your right cheek if your left is hit.

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What about the story about an entire city being destroyed (Soddom and Gamorah)? I'm sure there were good adults in that city who got killed, not to mention small children, who should always be considered innocent.

What about the story of Noah's ark? So God killed all people except for Noah and his family? Again, there were some good adults, and at the very least innocent small children who got drowned.

The story of Adam and Eve? Why should humanity be punished for Adam's decision to eat an apple? Why should Eve curse all women to be subserviant and suffer childbirth (as it states in the bible) for her actions?

How are those not group punishment?

What about when God killed Job's entire family just to prove to the Devil that Job will not abandon his faith? How is that cool?

I think you are taking the Bible far too literally.

People do tend to take the Bible too literally.

As an example, the beginning of the Bible which states God created everything in a week. He actually did all his work in 6 days, and on the 7th, he rested.

There are some that take this literally as "He started on Monday, finished on Saturday, and rested on Sunday (note: in some, namely Catholic, Sunday is viewed as the first day and Saturday is viewed as the "day of rest")." However, I am of the belief that days are a measure of time that humans use. Who's to say that a "day" for God is not millions of years?

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

What about when God killed Job's entire family just to prove to the Devil that Job will not abandon his faith? How is that cool?

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If you look at this story on the surface, from the view of a non-believer, yea, I can see how you would come to the conclusion that God is a douchebag.

However, you need to think about that story. At that time, Job was God's most faithful servant, an upright and perfect human being. God had bestowed many Earthly gifts upon Job because of this. Why would God punish him, especially just to prove a point to the devil?

The point is that it is quite easy to proclaim belief in God, praise Him, follow His rules, etc. as you are continuously receiving from Him. However, what happens when things go bad, really bad? We must remember that anything given to us, God has the authority to take away (or allow Satan to take away from us). It is a lot harder to believe in God when he allows your children to be killed, your animals slaughtered, and everything to be bascially destroyed.

I hope you recall, in that story, that at one point, when Job was stricken with boils all over his body, he broke down and began to ask God why he allowed this to happen to him. Job, the upright and perfect, began to question his faith. God then let him know that it was a test of faith. Soon after, everything in Job's life was restored anew.

Was it extreme? In the view of humans probably so. However, I am in no position to judge God, so I just take the lesson(s) I learn from the story.

in response to the asking why.

how is it i can't get a reply if i ask a question. self proclaimed god talkers cannot be the only ones to talk with god if all are equal?

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People do tend to take the Bible too literally.

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Yep mainly believers, which is one of the things about belief many people will believe just about anything.

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As an example, the beginning of the Bible which states God created everything in a week. He actually did all his work in 6 days, and on the 7th, he rested.

There are some that take this literally as "He started on Monday, finished on Saturday, and rested on Sunday (note: in some, namely Catholic, Sunday is viewed as the first day and Saturday is viewed as the "day of rest")." However, I am of the belief that days are a measure of time that humans use. Who's to say that a "day" for God is not millions of years?

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You may believe that, but the problem is there are a lot of Christians that want to push the literal definition as it's said in the bible into our schools as fact which is just plain wrong !

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If you look at this story on the surface, from the view of a non-believer, yea, I can see how you would come to the conclusion that God is a douchebag.

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Yes that is exactly how it looks

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The point is that it is quite easy to proclaim belief in God, praise Him, follow His rules, etc. as you are continuously receiving from Him. However, what happens when things go bad, really bad? We must remember that anything given to us, God has the authority to take away (or allow Satan to take away from us). It is a lot harder to believe in God when he allows your children to be killed, your animals slaughtered, and everything to be bascially destroyed.

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How is that a point, if god is interventionist as the old testament suggests, then why the hell would you want to worship a god that would do any of those things ? even to test someone faith.

Also Surely if God is omniscient they should basically know whether you have faith or not without the need to test for it.

If he is not an interventionist then the story makes no sense, and why would you care because you can basically do what you want without fear of punishment.

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Originally Posted by penagate

I think you are taking the Bible far too literally.

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Well if it's not 100% ethical and true, then how can I take it as the word of a just and loving god?

A thought just crossed my mind.
If God wants us to go forth and multiply, why don't Catholic priests marry?

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

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Originally Posted by penagate

I think you are taking the Bible far too literally.

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Well if it's not 100% ethical and true, then how can I take it as the word of a just and loving god?

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Many believe that Noah and the Ark is a true story, where the entire world was flooded/submerged by 40 days of rain. More & more modern-day theologians (men & women of faith) agree that it is a story of morals. And if it is based off of a true event, it was told out of context. Possibly a small town or city was washed away due to floods and the story grew from generation to generation to eventually become Noah's Ark.

One definition of religion (dictionary.com): "something one believes in and follows devotedly". By this definition, any truly religious person can be said to be biased and closed-minded to their religion; unwilling to entertain ideas that contradict. Too many religious people fall into that definition and it is a shame. No one's mind should be so biased or closed-minded to prevent entertaining new ideas with serious contemplation. That's my opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

There is no Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy or Underpants Gnomes ... because it's something people made up. There is no evidence they exist.

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However, Leptons mixed with string theory to create sock lepre-cons, which are the dryer gremlins responsible for removing a single sock from any pair.

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People used to believe (and still do in some parts of Africa) that witches were among them.

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True, but in modern languages, these have been replaced by Select Case statements. (just remember, it's good to stretch before exercising, even if it is just stretching the pun muscle).

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Originally Posted by abhijit

A thought just crossed my mind.
If God wants us to go forth and multiply, why don't Catholic priests marry?

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That's a very good question we should ask the Catholics. :)

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Originally Posted by dee-u

That's a very good question we should ask the Catholics. :)

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I don't know any Catholics, much less priests.

Why don't Catholic Priests marry? The Catholic church forbids Gay Weddings.

On a more sober note I would like to know where it is stated that 'God wants us to go forth an multiply' as I have never seen that one.

I am aware of a parable that explains the situation in greater detail.

A father says to his three sons to take their Gold Coins and to go out into the world and make a profit. The first son makes two gold coins and his father welcomes him. The second son makes three gold coins and his father welcomes him. The third son buried his coin in the ground for fear of losing it. He returned to his fathers house with his coin arguing that he kept it safe, his father told him to leave his house as he had failed to invest wisely (the word lazy I think was mentioned).
This parable has implications directly relating to population growth to ensure the survival of the religion, as a political entity. Where there are greater numbers there is greater strength.

Obviously bated at the Jewish population but conceivable to have measures against Catholic priests. A gold coin is a soul. But Priests go out into the world and convert people to the Catholic faith, and from this action create a soul.

Virgin Birth? Joseph and Mary were married prior to their travels to Bethlehem and for this reason the Catholic church describe this as the Miraculous Conception.

Noah - first testament. A Hebrew propaganda manifesto. You only need to read the romanticism of Moses measured against historical evidence.

Atheism is the door for people who have quite frankly had enough of the complete pile of shite that religion is. I've had enough and I will never go back. I don't need a god (small g) and never will I. I don't promote atheism in any way the organisational religions promote their faiths. Christian religions are logically flawed, after all, why is most of the bible missing? Why was Mary promoted as a prostitute? Why are only the stories of four disciples entered? This list of questions are endless.

Why don't people believe in god? Politicised religion killed mono theism.

Kind regards

Steve

I don't believe in God because there's no proof of His existence.

I'm assuming my post has been deleted since it magically disappeared without reason.

...And on the first day, man created god.

But hey, that's coming from someone with the Antichrist Superstar symbol as his avatar.

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

So you really think it's ok for God to kill the first born of egypt (children) to punish Pharaoh?

I don't think it's right.

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A just and loving God would not punish people not responsible for a crime.

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I am sorry, but nowhere in the old testament is he portrayed as either of those things. In fact, he's pro-genocide. He's literally the god of israel only and everyone else is either doomed to slavery, rape (women), or death.

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Originally Posted by zaza

Fair enough. But if God is prepared to put himself in such a position that I feel morally superior to him (and I would say not unreasonably in this case), then I'm afraid he can't seriously expect me to follow his Word.

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Nit-picking here, but moses, his high priest was given the powers and he's actually the one who called the plagues down, except the final one. Do not forget that the pharoah actually ordered the deaths of the jewish children. Also the israelites were being kept as slaves and not a single family in egypt was innocent of keeping one a slave.

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

What about the story about an entire city being destroyed (Soddom and Gamorah)? I'm sure there were good adults in that city who got killed, not to mention small children, who should always be considered innocent.

What about the story of Noah's ark? So God killed all people except for Noah and his family? Again, there were some good adults, and at the very least innocent small children who got drowned.

The story of Adam and Eve? Why should humanity be punished for Adam's decision to eat an apple? Why should Eve curse all women to be subserviant and suffer childbirth (as it states in the bible) for her actions?

How are those not group punishment?

What about when God killed Job's entire family just to prove to the Devil that Job will not abandon his faith? How is that cool?

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The old testament is more a history book than anything else. Some archaeologists believe they have actually found the destroyed cities (actually 5 cities) and believe it was a meteor or volcano.
Don't get me started on Genesis. It was a punishment for descendents of Adam. Not everyone is. If everyone was, there wouldn't have been people outside of the garden to persecute cain.
As for Job, i personally think that was a moral story. The literal translation of the person discussing with god was not satan, it was unbeliever. Only recent translations have changed this. The churches believe actually mentioning satan somewhere in the old testament (he's not actually there anywhere) gives more support for his existence in the new testament. Anyway, the point of that story was keep the faith and you'll be rewarded. He came out far ahead in the end.

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Originally Posted by LaVolpe

Many believe that Noah and the Ark is a true story, where the entire world was flooded/submerged by 40 days of rain. More & more modern-day theologians (men & women of faith) agree that it is a story of morals. And if it is based off of a true event, it was told out of context. Possibly a small town or city was washed away due to floods and the story grew from generation to generation to eventually become Noah's Ark.

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This is another interesting story. I don't give credence to the single town because of the simple fact that nearly every single religion has a flood story in it. Many believe this is another catastrophie story. Either huge tidal waves from a volcano at sea or at-sea meteor flooded huge parts of the earth.

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Originally Posted by sparbag

Why don't Catholic Priests marry? The Catholic church forbids Gay Weddings.

On a more sober note I would like to know where it is stated that 'God wants us to go forth an multiply' as I have never seen that one.

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I think the quote is "Be fruitful and multiply", but I swear I have heard it both ways.

I am a "Catholic" in that I was baptised without being asked. From what I have been told Catholic priests in the most part are married to each other!! It is widely speculated (known) the vast majority of trainee priests are gay. I know of one person who did not continue with the training as he did not appreciate the behaviour of other priests as he did not feel the same way about men.

Go fourth and multiply is easy per Catholicism, if you are married. However if you are not then you aren’t getting any. if you don’t want a little bambino you don’t have a choice.

I don’t accept any of what was forced down my throat as a 5 year old from nuns who didn’t know any better. I have just found out that I am the sponsor for my nephews conformation can’t wait to stand and be a hypocrite for another hour!

People will ask why I am doing it. I am doing it because my nephew as asked and I don’t want to let him down.

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Originally Posted by sparbag

Atheism is the door for people who have quite frankly had enough of the complete pile of shite that religion is. I've had enough and I will never go back. I don't need a god (small g) and never will I. I don't promote atheism in any way the organizational religions promote their faiths. Christian religions are logically flawed, after all, why is most of the bible missing? Why was Mary promoted as a prostitute? Why are only the stories of four disciples entered? This list of questions are endless.

Why don't people believe in god? Politicized religion killed monotheism.

Kind regards

Steve

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I think Steve hit the nail on the head. As a modern society, we are seeing a shift towards agnosticism. The agnostic believes that all spiritual/metaphysical knowledge such as theology, the afterlife, existence of deities, etc, are unknown and for the most part, unknowable. Thus, they reject religion; which by it's very nature, claims the opposite.

Whether an agnostic is a theist or an atheist is another matter. I for example am an agnostic theist. I reject religion but I believe in a theology, and my personal theology believes in a God.

Other people are agnostic atheists, they reject both religion and any form of theology. In reality, there are few true atheists since most people tend to believe in something personally; whether it be an afterlife, a God or Gods, spiritual beings, etc. They may certainly be agnostic though.

So why this shift away from organized religion? Most likely it is because of this Age of Information that we live in. You can now, thanks to the printing press, jets and modern distribution systems and even the internet, get a comparison of every major religion side-by-side on this planet. You can also see everybody's arguments to every ancient verse pointing out the logical flaws, the contradictions, and the questionings in a nifty blog format. :)

On top of it all, we have information at our fingertips of our world's history as we have best pieced it together; and with that, hard evidence of men and women using religion as a tool to manipulate and control the unlearned masses. Evidence of hiding and destroying knowledge, evidence of the invention of self-serving edicts that have become ritual and mandate, and evidence of using religion as a blanket to cover over atrocities committed (we're sorry we killed your people, but God told us to!).

Religion, at least the major religions of this world have become politicized. Knowledge, now available freely to even the humblest man allows them to see this and be disgusted. The result? They become agnostic.

Is there a site out there that does a side by side comparison of religions in a purely banal way? What I am thinking of is a site that compares them much the same way that a place like MS compares different levels of VS. So there would be a table with a series of features down the left column (the rows), a variety of religions across the top (the columns), and a check mark in the grid for each item. Perhaps a check mark wouldn't be sufficient, though.

For example, one of the rows would be "Attitudes towards sex" (perhaps there could be different rows for hetero, homo, animalistic, recreational, etc.). Some religions would be "opposed" (most fundamentalist flavors), "supportive" (some eastern traditions), or maybe even "totally messed up".

Another category could be "Pork is food", while another would be "Cows are food".

This could make for a highly entertaining site.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

Is there a site out there that does a side by side comparison of religions in a purely banal way?

This could make for a highly entertaining site.

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Not sure if you find this entertaining.

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Originally Posted by dee-u

Can science create something?

My 1st year high school teacher thought us that creating means making something out of nothing so if someone else can make something out of nothing then I will be baffled.

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cre⋅ate
–verb (used with object)
1. to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
2. to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.
3. Theater. to perform (a role) for the first time or in the first production of a play.
4. to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.
5. to be the cause or occasion of; give rise to: The announcement created confusion.
6. to cause to happen; bring about; arrange, as by intention or design: to create a revolution; to create an opportunity to ask for a raise.
–verb (used without object)
7. to do something creative or constructive.
8. British. to make a fuss.
–adjective
9. Archaic. created.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME creat (ptp.) < L creātus, equiv. to creā- (s. of creāre to make) + -tus ptp. suffix

Word Origin & History

create
c.1386, from L. creatus, pp. of creare "to make, produce," related to crescere "arise, grow" (see crescent). Creator for "Supreme Being" (c.1300) drove out native scieppend, from verb scieppan (see shape). Creative is from 1678, originally literal; of the arts, meaning "imaginative," from 1816, first attested in Wordsworth. Creative writing is from 1907. The native word for creation in the Biblical sense was O.E. frum-sceaft.Creationism as a name for the religious reaction to Darwin is from 1880.


"James Ussher (1581-1656), Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland, and Vice-Chancellor of Trinity College in Dublin was highly regarded in his day as a churchman and as a scholar. Of his many works, his treatise on chronology has proved the most durable. Based on an intricate correlation of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean histories and Holy writ, it was incorporated into an authorized version of the Bible printed in 1701, and thus came to be regarded with almost as much unquestioning reverence as the Bible itself. Having established the first day of creation as Sunday 23 October 4004 B.C. ... Ussher calculated the dates of other biblical events, concluding, for example, that Adam and Eve were driven from Paradise on Monday 10 November 4004 BC, and that the ark touched down on Mt Ararat on 5 May 1491 BC `on a Wednesday'." [Craig, G.Y., and E.J. Jones, "A Geological Miscellany," Princeton University Press, 1982.]

I'm not an atheist !!
I'm a realest .
I'm a devout believer in reality.

And I don't believe, teachers or scholars with unquestioning reverence.

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Originally Posted by Blakk_Majik

People do tend to take the Bible too literally.

As an example, the beginning of the Bible which states God created everything in a week. He actually did all his work in 6 days, and on the 7th, he rested.

There are some that take this literally as "He started on Monday, finished on Saturday, and rested on Sunday (note: in some, namely Catholic, Sunday is viewed as the first day and Saturday is viewed as the "day of rest")." However, I am of the belief that days are a measure of time that humans use. Who's to say that a "day" for God is not millions of years?


If you look at this story on the surface, from the view of a non-believer, yea, I can see how you would come to the conclusion that God is a douchebag.

However, you need to think about that story. At that time, Job was God's most faithful servant, an upright and perfect human being. God had bestowed many Earthly gifts upon Job because of this. Why would God punish him, especially just to prove a point to the devil?

The point is that it is quite easy to proclaim belief in God, praise Him, follow His rules, etc. as you are continuously receiving from Him. However, what happens when things go bad, really bad? We must remember that anything given to us, God has the authority to take away (or allow Satan to take away from us). It is a lot harder to believe in God when he allows your children to be killed, your animals slaughtered, and everything to be bascially destroyed.

I hope you recall, in that story, that at one point, when Job was stricken with boils all over his body, he broke down and began to ask God why he allowed this to happen to him. Job, the upright and perfect, began to question his faith. God then let him know that it was a test of faith. Soon after, everything in Job's life was restored anew.

Was it extreme? In the view of humans probably so. However, I am in no position to judge God, so I just take the lesson(s) I learn from the story.

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People who are unwilling to judge faith is the source of many problems.

Why can't you judge "God", at least as he is portrayed in your Holy Book?
If God can kill innocent people (Job's Family) for the purposes of showing his power or testing a single man's faith, then how is he considered just and loving?

If God killed every human except Noah's family, how is that considered a just and loving god? Did Noah's family have to repopulate the Earth through inbreeding? I would estimate at least 10% of the population were small children that got drowned, and I doubt the majority of the people drowned did anything that really deserved death, probably some subjective sin like pre-marital sex or not going to temple on Saturday (all of which the Bible/Torah has said is punishable by death).

Sit down, read through every passage that has violence in it. Does that sound like a just God or is it written by ancient peoples making up stories to control their people and keep them in their "faith"?

Noah landed in oz

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

I'm not an atheist !!
I'm a realest .
I'm a devout believer in reality.

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Everyone thinks their reality is the only true reality.

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Originally Posted by abhijit

Not sure if you find this entertaining.

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No. It's a start, but it is neither comprehensive, nor as entertaining as it could be. For one thing, it splits many different things, then lumps all christian faiths into one lump (though it split out one or two that really should have been included). Therefore, it is not just a tad dull, but absurd, as well. Catholics and protestants have killed each other throughout time, yet they are put into the same category? Of course, the same is done with Sunni and Shiite sects within Islam, as well, so they are consistent in their weirdness. Still, I can't help but notice that they claim the combined christian faith is about twice as large as all others aside from Islam (and nearly twice as large as Islam).

Frankly, I think it is no better than a start, and a weak one at that.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

No. It's a start, but it is neither comprehensive, nor as entertaining as it could be. For one thing, it splits many different things, then lumps all christian faiths into one lump (though it split out one or two that really should have been included). Therefore, it is not just a tad dull, but absurd, as well. Catholics and protestants have killed each other throughout time, yet they are put into the same category? Of course, the same is done with Sunni and Shiite sects within Islam, as well, so they are consistent in their weirdness. Still, I can't help but notice that they claim the combined christian faith is about twice as large as all others aside from Islam (and nearly twice as large as Islam).

Frankly, I think it is no better than a start, and a weak one at that.

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Thay are all killers.



penagate

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Everyone thinks their reality is the only true reality.

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I did not say I think my reality is the only true reality.




I did say Noah landed in oz .
That's y kangaroos are only in Australia

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

I did not say I think my reality is the only true reality.

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I believe that you did, even if you don't.

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

That's y kangaroos are only in Australia

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Kangaroos exist in several countries besides Australia.

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Originally Posted by penagate

I believe that you did, even if you don't.

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I did not. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You believe. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

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Originally Posted by penagate

Kangaroos exist in several countries besides Australia.

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http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/an...dWallabies.htm
Kangaroos and wallabies are marsupials that belong to a small group of animals called macropods. They are only found naturally in Australia and Papua New Guinea. Most macropods have hind legs larger than their forelimbs, large hind feet, and long muscular tails which they use for balance. The word macropod actually means 'big foot'. Kangaroos and wallabies are most active at night, dusk and dawn.

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And wombats? and koalas? and Platypus? and ........................ :D

See Noah landed in oz.

.

penagate

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There is no Underpants Gnomes ... because it's something people made up. There is no evidence they exist.

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I've got hard evidence they exist, I can FedEx the evidence to you if you like. :bigyello:

capsulecorpjx
Yes, Noah kept it in the Family

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

I did not. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You believe. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

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Of all the possible responses you could have given, this is possibly among the most gauche and inane.

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Originally Posted by penagate

Of all the possible responses you could have given, this is possibly among the most gauche and inane.

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So it make you feel gauche?

The one that lacks sense or substance is?

Is it the reply to
"even if you don't.
Or is it the reply to
"I believe that you did"


You did not say, if you would like me to FedEx the evidence to you!

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Originally Posted by penagate

Kangaroos exist in several countries besides Australia.

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Because there are zoos there are kangaroos all over the world though I'm sure penagate is not referring to that. Wikipedia mentions Australia and New Guinea and says that kangaroos are endemic to Australia. I didn't read the whole article but I didn't see any other countries mentioned and "to be endemic to a place or area means that it is found only in that part of the world and nowhere else"(wikipedia definition provided by link in article).

http://icanhascheezburger.files.word...k-problems.jpg

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Originally Posted by 5ms?

penagate

I've got hard evidence they exist, I can FedEx the evidence to you if you like. :bigyello:

capsulecorpjx
Yes, Noah kept it in the Family

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That's terrible, so we're all a product of Incest?

And the entire human race spread out over the Earth in less than a few thousand years, some creating ancient civilizations in a hundred years or less?

Also if the earth is 6000 years old or so, does that mean the stars are less than 6,000 light years away? So is all Astrophysics wrong?

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

Also if the earth is 6000 years old or so, does that mean the stars are less than 6,000 light years away? So is all Astrophysics wrong?

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Don't forget about the dinosaurs, Lucy or Ardi; or maybe carbon dating is seriously flawed.

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

That's terrible, so we're all a product of Incest?

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:check:
Yeip
Were did adam and eve's grandchildren come from?

God's way, keep it in the Family!

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

And the entire human race spread out over the Earth in less than a few thousand years, some creating ancient civilizations in a hundred years or less?

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:check:
Yiap

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

Also if the earth is 6000 years old or so, does that mean the stars are less than 6,000 light years away? So is all Astrophysics wrong?

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:check:
Yeap

5999 and 357Days?

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

That's terrible, so we're all a product of Incest?

And the entire human race spread out over the Earth in less than a few thousand years, some creating ancient civilizations in a hundred years or less?

Also if the earth is 6000 years old or so, does that mean the stars are less than 6,000 light years away? So is all Astrophysics wrong?

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ah but a day is like a thousand years, remember? 6000 years x 365 = two million, one hundred ninety thousand years, at the minimum.

This is just degenerating in to somthing other than serious!

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ah but a day is like a thousand years

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Only Mondays, the rest of the week flies by fairly quickly !

Can't believe this discussion is still ongoing!

Me either, especially arguing the minutiae of the christian bible. I know I'd have a better chance of arguing the truth found in Douglas Adams: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :p

It's one of those things where once someone has made up their mind about it, there's no point in arguing because you're not going to change their beliefs. Only they can change their beliefs. If you want to argue that back then, a day is two thousand years, or that God wiped out most of humanity in some great flood, or he destroyed cities because he didn't agree with the people's beliefs there, or he killed all the first sons of Egypt because he apparently wanted to teach the pharaoh a lesson, then fine. Believe it. I could care less what you believe as long as it doesn't affect me or the people I love.

True belief doesn't come from the writings in a book. If you want to show true faith, then toss your bibles into the fire, burn your churches to the ground and really, honestly believe. You don't need any of that nonsense for true faith. You honestly think God actually cares that you're reciting lines from a 2000 year old book? Probably about as much as he cares about your ability to quote Family Guy.

But it's entertaining

I think they are making progress actually. Through 5 years of Catholic school the nuns just avoided all of these questions (and beat the crap out of anyone who asked them). Now I'm finally learning that incest is part of gods great plan!

Incest? Think about Adam and Eve and their children. Eeeew.

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You honestly think God actually cares that you're reciting lines from a 2000 year old book?

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I always think that - there are these 3 guys that stand in our town centre every single day shouting stuff like "join us and worship jeesus" and "god will forgive you for your sins" etc etc and I just think surely God would rather you just lived your life to the fullest rather than wasting it standing in town all day preaching to people that are just trying to ignore you.

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Originally Posted by chris128

I always think that - there are these 3 guys that stand in our town centre every single day shouting stuff like "join us and worship jeesus" and "god will forgive you for your sins" etc etc and I just think surely God would rather you just lived your life to the fullest rather than wasting it standing in town all day preaching to people that are just trying to ignore you.

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I have seen a lot of people like these. Sometimes I have attempted to engage them in conversation. It is difficult, because they are not coherent all the time.

I get a real kick out of the guy in our town. He glares at you while he yells. There is no chance that anyone is going to talk to him or follow him or join him. He hands out pamphlets and I always make a big display of taking one and then throwing it over my shoulder at him while I walk away.

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Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978

Can't believe this discussion is still ongoing!

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I don't believe this discussion will end. :D

An interesting related article that contains this rather funny sentence.

The internal testimony of Scripture clearly shows that Moses wrote at least some of the first five books of the Bible. Some parts may have been updated later (see Genesis 14:14; 36:31; 47:11), and the last chapter of Deuteronomy, which records Moses' death, may have been added by someone else.

The information in this article applies to:


THE HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION&#174;, NIV&#174; Copyright ;&#169; 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society&#174;
Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

New American Standard Bible Copyright &#169; 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation, La Habra, Calif. All rights reserved. For Permission to Quote Information visit http://www.lockman.org.

International Standard Version Copyright &#169; 1996-2008 by the ISV Foundation.

GOD'S WORD&#174; is a copyrighted work of God's Word to the Nations.
Quotations are used by permission.
Copyright 1995 by God's Word to the Nations.
All rights reserved.


THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IN
THE GOD KNOWLEDGE BASE IS PROVIDED "AS IS"
WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.
GOD DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES,
EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT
SHALL GOD OR SUPPLIERS OF GOD'S WORD BE LIABLE FOR ANY
DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING DIRECT,
INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL,
LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES,
EVEN IF GOD OR SUPPLIERS OF GOD'S WORD
HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

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Originally Posted by Davadvice

This is just degenerating in to somthing other than serious!

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I believe this is serious.
And I believe peoples beliefs [(god),(no god)] are serious!
no matter how thay voice there belief.

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Originally Posted by KTech

I get a real kick out of the guy in our town. He glares at you while he yells. There is no chance that anyone is going to talk to him or follow him or join him. He hands out pamphlets and I always make a big display of taking one and then throwing it over my shoulder at him while I walk away.

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that's really not only immature, but pamphlets aren't cheap. One of the things followers are SUPPOSED to do is spread their faith. Guys like that are the only ones that really do it properly, and they can never give up on a sinner. As far as he's concerned, as long as you are taking them, there's a chance that you can be dragged from the cesspool of sin it is stuck in.

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Originally Posted by Jenner

Me either, especially arguing the minutiae of the christian bible. I know I'd have a better chance of arguing the truth found in Douglas Adams: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :p

It's one of those things where once someone has made up their mind about it, there's no point in arguing because you're not going to change their beliefs. Only they can change their beliefs. If you want to argue that back then, a day is two thousand years, or that God wiped out most of humanity in some great flood, or he destroyed cities because he didn't agree with the people's beliefs there, or he killed all the first sons of Egypt because he apparently wanted to teach the pharaoh a lesson, then fine. Believe it. I could care less what you believe as long as it doesn't affect me or the people I love.

True belief doesn't come from the writings in a book. If you want to show true faith, then toss your bibles into the fire, burn your churches to the ground and really, honestly believe. You don't need any of that nonsense for true faith. You honestly think God actually cares that you're reciting lines from a 2000 year old book? Probably about as much as he cares about your ability to quote Family Guy.

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I can burn my church but I cannot toss my Bible into the fire, it is the basis of my faith, without it I sure would have been an atheist since then.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

that's really not only immature, but pamphlets aren't cheap. One of the things followers are SUPPOSED to do is spread their faith. Guys like that are the only ones that really do it properly, and they can never give up on a sinner. As far as he's concerned, as long as you are taking them, there's a chance that you can be dragged from the cesspool of sin it is stuck in.

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But how would I ever talk to someone or get the message from someone who is yelling at everyone and glaring at them? His message seems to be that I am bad and he is better than me. So I feel compelled to degrade him back in any way that I can.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

ah but a day is like a thousand years, remember? 6000 years x 365 = two million, one hundred ninety thousand years, at the minimum.

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Where did you get that from? That a day = 1000 years?

Even if you found a passage in a bible that said that, 2.2 million years still is way off from the 10 billion + light years away galaxies we see.

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Originally Posted by KTech

I get a real kick out of the guy in our town. He glares at you while he yells. There is no chance that anyone is going to talk to him or follow him or join him. He hands out pamphlets and I always make a big display of taking one and then throwing it over my shoulder at him while I walk away.

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Will, your not aloud to let him get a big kick out of you. :rolleyes:

So, get a box, and let him know your beliefs, hand him some pamphlets.:bigyello:
May-be he'll join you.:eek:

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Originally Posted by capsulecorpjx

Where did you get that from? That a day = 1000 years?

Even if you found a passage in a bible that said that, 2.2 million years still is way off from the 10 billion + light years away galaxies we see.

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1000/24=41.666666666666666666666666666667

god needed Proof,
so he had a man there, he timed god,
his clock showed 41.666666666666666666666666666667 years for each hour, man wat a long day.

That's why "The answer to your question" is 41.666666666666666666666666666667 Or Rounded to 42.

And we'll allow Satan to have the 666.