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Nov 11th, 2021, 10:30 AM
#1
VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
After years of failing to properly communicate why the .Net environment is superior to the VB6 environment in the development of Windows applications, I have come to the conclusion that words aren't enough. I've decided to show it to be true.
Understand this though, my argument has always been about productivity. So that there is no misunderstanding, let me explain what I mean by that. A more productive environment simply means it takes less time to do the same thing.
To test the productivity of both environments I devised a simple spec for a very simple application. I then implemented the application in both VB6 and VB.Net while recording the entire thing. Here are the results:-
VB6
VB.Net
As you can clearly see it took twice as long to write the VB6 version. I'm not going to bother explaining why for the billionth time. I and others have explained it more than enough, much of which you can find in this thread. And know that it's not any one thing, it's everything together. Everything from language features to the more powerful intellisense and things like LINQ all work together to boost productivity.
As far as I'm concerned, this ends the debate. The .Net development is a better environment than VB6. It saves you the most precious resource any of us have, time.
Finally here is the spec I was talking about. It's simply a series of goals.
Code:
1) List all people.
2) List all people sorted by first name only
3) List all people sorted last name then first name
4) List all people sorted by age
5) List all people under 11 years of age
6) List all people under 18 years of age
7) List all people over 50 years of age
8) List all females over 50
9) List all males over 50
10) Show the oldest person
11) Show the average of all ages
12) Show the person with the longest name(length of first name + length of last name)
And this is the database upon which those goals will be achieved:-
Code:
Clayton, Daniels, M, 12
Charles, Brooms, M, 32
John, Darius, M , 29
Mary, Smith , F, 2
Utred, Carrington, M, 32
Jim, Hopkins, M , 33
Sharon, Cealy, F, 39
Derick, Charles, M, 12
Elias, Washington, M, 22
Helen, Stathom, F, 26
Carver, Charles, M, 56
Carrie, Fienes, F, 3
Don, Jacobs, M, 1
Jack, Prince, M, 7
Dana, Washington, F, 17
Sharon, Tatum, F, 82
Mark, Tatum, M, 70
Carlton, Brooms, M, 12
John, Penn, M, 52
Earl, James, M, 17
Jamie, Pendragon, M, 22
Roman, Jacobs, M, 29
Hanzo, James, M, 27
Genie, Pink, F, 43
January, Klein, F, 12
George, Stathom, M, 72
Jane, Jacobs, F, 21
Helen, Cealy, F, 42
Nathan, Gins, M, 2
Fiora, Washington, F, 13
Henry, Stathom, M, 92
Mia, Daniels, F, 37
Jill, Cealy, F, 25
Romano, Prince, M, 36
Elizabeth, Brooms, F, 9
Richard, Brooms, M, 32
Henry, Klein, M, 22
Nathan, Illia, M, 25
Jack, Jackson, M, 50
Daniel, Prince, M, 52
John, Aster, M, 17
Millie, Spooner, F, 23
Harry, Jacobs, M, 9
Riza, Hawkeye, F, 32
Mark, Graves, M, 4
Camille, Gins, F, 23
Harry, Foster, M, 49
Jane, Foster, F, 49
Dan, Wexler, M, 104
Jimmy, Forrester, M, 82
Max, Foster, M, 23
Tia, Daniels, F, 23
Carmen, Jones, F, 45
Carmen, James, F, 15
Galatea, Fienes, F, 19
Henry, Brooms, M, 72
Jennie, Penn, F, 51
John, Daniels, M, 39
Mary-Jane, Cealy, F, 49
John, Graves, M, 33
Max, Jones, M, 4
And with that, I consider this debate concluded.
[UPDATE]
Here is another one I did for the heck of it in WPF. This one was done in 16 and a half minutes, roughly 2 minutes faster than the WinForms version:-
Last edited by Niya; Nov 12th, 2021 at 02:50 AM.
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Nov 11th, 2021, 11:21 AM
#2
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
But does it still uses palm oil?
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Nov 11th, 2021, 11:42 AM
#3
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Arnoutdv
But does it still uses palm oil?
lol this went over my head. Forgive me. A little slow today
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Nov 11th, 2021, 12:17 PM
#4
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
I admire your optimism
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 11th, 2021, 02:05 PM
#5
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
I admire your optimism
Video evidence is good enough to soundly settle disputes in a court of law. I don't see why it can't be the same for any other dispute. If it's good enough for the courts it should be good enough for the rest of us.
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Nov 11th, 2021, 06:39 PM
#6
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Arnoutdv
But does it still uses palm oil?
.NET uses snake oil.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 11th, 2021, 09:30 PM
#7
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Niya
Video evidence is good enough to soundly settle disputes in a court of law. I don't see why it can't be the same for any other dispute.
Because those are rational?
I meant that as a quip, but upon thinking about it a bit more, that's the real point: Court arguments are rational, programming arguments are emotional, and they always will be.
After all, I used my time savings to play a computer game. Take THAT, productivity!!!
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 11th, 2021, 09:52 PM
#8
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
The debate will end once no one from the .Net and VB6 side posts something like this.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 02:52 AM
#9
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Just for fun I added another video doing it in WPF. That one was done even faster coming in at 16 and a half minutes.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 03:03 AM
#10
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by dee-u
The debate will end once no one from the .Net and VB6 side posts something like this.
My argument was always that VB.Net is better than VB6 because the .Net Framework, new language features and the modern Visual Studio IDE make writing the same Windows applications more productive. The application I wrote in the videos is as simple as they come but I sincerely doubt it can be written from scratch in less than 16 and a half minutes using VB6. As long as this holds true there is nothing to debate.
I'm open to being proven wrong though. In fact, I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. That would honestly surprise me.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 04:00 AM
#11
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Niya
Video evidence is good enough to soundly settle disputes in a court of law. I don't see why it can't be the same for any other dispute. If it's good enough for the courts it should be good enough for the rest of us.
you do know that you can use ADO with Text files ? I watched about 5 min. and then decided to go for Pancakes with
Lemon juice and Strawberry Jam.
But I'm glad the the VB6 vs. .NET debate is over
Last edited by ChrisE; Nov 12th, 2021 at 04:07 AM.
to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 04:35 AM
#12
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by ChrisE
Lemon juice and Strawberry Jam.
I am SO pleased I have been able to affect this debate in a constructive manner and slightly improve someone's life in the process.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 04:39 AM
#13
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
American style pancakes or real pancakes?
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Nov 12th, 2021, 07:19 AM
#14
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Arnoutdv
American style pancakes or real pancakes?
American and also Waffles, what do you mean by real pancakes ?
to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 07:57 AM
#15
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Flat pancakes, not risen nor fluffy.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 08:05 AM
#16
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by ChrisE
American and also Waffles, what do you mean by real pancakes ?
Waffles are Belgian and are definitely not pancakes
Pancakes
https://www.google.com/search?q=pann...w=1270&bih=949
Waffles:
https://www.google.com/search?q=belg...afels+belgisch
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Nov 12th, 2021, 08:12 AM
#17
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber
Flat pancakes, not risen nor fluffy.
We would call those crepes
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Nov 12th, 2021, 08:27 AM
#18
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by szlamany
We would call those crepes
jep, same here
to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 08:28 AM
#19
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Niya
My argument was always that VB.Net is better than VB6 because the .Net Framework, new language features and the modern Visual Studio IDE make writing the same Windows applications more productive.
Then your argument is irrelevant to anyone for whom productivity is not their primary concern. If that was your argument then it should have been that VB.NET is more productive, rather than VB.NET is better. Of course, those who insist that VB6 is better are making a similar mistake.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 08:31 AM
#20
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by szlamany
We would call those crepes
A Crêpe is a very thin (French) pancake:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr%C3%AApe
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Nov 12th, 2021, 11:14 AM
#21
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
in fact a pancake is a very thick crêpe
The best friend of any programmer is a search engine
"Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges, wish for more wisdom" (J. Rohn)
“They did not know it was impossible so they did it” (Mark Twain)
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Nov 12th, 2021, 11:59 AM
#22
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
What we in the UK call pancakes, the French call crêpes. We do not have any other type nor do we recognise any other type of pancake. You'll have to take it to the UN to get it resolved or there will be pancake problems.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 12:00 PM
#23
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Arnoutdv
Waffles are Belgian and are definitely not pancakes
Waffles are used in the UK as ceiling tiles, having eaten a Belgian waffle I can attest they are the same.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 12:11 PM
#24
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Lemon juice and Strawberry Jam
Pfft! You should have moved to Strawberry Juice and Lemon Jam years ago. You're stuck in the past.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill
Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd
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Nov 12th, 2021, 12:19 PM
#25
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber
What we in the UK call pancakes, the French call crêpes. We do not have any other type nor do we recognise any other type of pancake. You'll have to take it to the UN to get it resolved or there will be pancake problems.
Yeah, and as EVERYBODY knows, the UK is renowned the world over for their exemplary culinary skills.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 12th, 2021, 12:34 PM
#26
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Immediately followed by the US
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Nov 12th, 2021, 01:03 PM
#27
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Yeah, and as EVERYBODY knows, the UK is renowned the world over for their exemplary culinary skills.
We covered that earlier and just because your knowledge is a combination of being out of date and yours doesn't make it current nor correct. The past is another country.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 01:04 PM
#28
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by FunkyDexter
Pfft! You should have moved to Strawberry Juice and Lemon Jam years ago. You're stuck in the past.
That is a combination I would willingly try as I assume I already know the outcome but nevertheless I am unsure.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 01:06 PM
#29
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Arnoutdv
Immediately followed by the US
Isn't it strange how the Americans are unaware of what the rest of the world thinks of their food?
Let's correct that.
https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+...utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 02:40 PM
#30
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Oh, trust me.,... some of us are keenly aware... we just don''t care. Besides the best foods don't originate here but are imported. Although everytime my kids refer to Taco Bell as "Mexican Food" a cholo cries in pain.
-tg
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Nov 12th, 2021, 02:53 PM
#31
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
English speakers talking about cousins...
Btw is mushroom pie still a thing in the UK? I have keen memories eating one up, barfing and be sick for days.
Although I must say that there is some high cousin fire on very expensive restaurants, they copy others but still and also I was able to be out of London back in the days and have a rich English country site breakfast. That was fine.
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν·
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Nov 12th, 2021, 03:00 PM
#32
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber
We covered that earlier and just because your knowledge is a combination of being out of date and yours doesn't make it current nor correct. The past is another country.
No, you covered that in a different thread, not earlier. I chose to ignore it because I hadn't actually seen it when I wrote that. Ignoring something is FAR easier when you aren't aware that it exists, when it comes to written statements. Note that ignoring something physical is NOT far easier when you aren't aware that it exists. I have never seen a purple elephant, but if one walked into my house, I certainly wouldn't ignore it. Instead, I would ask it, "why have you walked into my house?" I would NOT ask it, "why are you purple?", because that would be gauche.
And now I have said all that needs to be said, aside from the fact that needling the UK about their culinary prowess isn't entirely out of vogue.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 12th, 2021, 06:13 PM
#33
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by jmcilhinney
Then your argument is irrelevant to anyone for whom productivity is not their primary concern.
Not quite. I mean think about it. If you and I were tasked with writing the same application and you did it in half the time because you chose to do it in .Net and I in VB6. You saved time. But what did I gain for the extra time I spent? Absolutely nothing. My argument is only irrelevant if you gained something by using VB6 instead of .Net. Olaf likes to argue that his library is only 3 MB bla bla bla while .Net is 500 MB but that is irrelevant because you pay that "500 MB" tax by installing Windows, and you can't avoid it by writing applications in VB6.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 06:20 PM
#34
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Think about it some more. I agree with JMC. If you were tasked with writing an application, and that was ALL you were tasked with, then your argument does make sense. If you were tasked with writing an application in C and you wrote it in .NET, then it wouldn't make a darn bit of difference whether you were more productive in .NET. Alternatively, if you tasked yourself with writing something (as any hobbyist would), then productivity may well not be your primary concern.
My usual boring signature: Nothing
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Nov 12th, 2021, 06:30 PM
#35
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
I think that chips taste nicer than fries.
Shaggy, this IS actually the same thread and the same people reading it.
https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert
Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.
By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 06:45 PM
#36
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
If you were a hobbyist and already had experience with vb6 I could understand a reluctance to learn dotnet, although if you were just getting into programming as a hobby the fact that dotnet is free, cross platform, and fully supported would definitely make it preferable over vb6 IMHO.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 07:01 PM
#37
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
If you were tasked with writing an application in C and you wrote it in .NET, then it wouldn't make a darn bit of difference whether you were more productive in .NET.
This is a very good point but in this particular case it doesn't apply for one very simple reason, VB.Net and entire .Net ecosystem covers everything VB6 can. However, when you bring C into it, productivity would not matter if you were covering something that only C can cover. C shows up in places .Net wouldn't dare to manifest. For example, you'd never write an operating system in .Net.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Alternatively, if you tasked yourself with writing something (as any hobbyist would), then productivity may well not be your primary concern.
Even so you gain nothing meaningful by using VB6 over VB.Net. It just gives you more work to do the same exact things.
I guess you would have a point if you value the satisfaction you get out of doing it the hard way. Maybe that means more to some people so you might have a point there.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 07:02 PM
#38
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp
If you were a hobbyist and already had experience with vb6 I could understand a reluctance to learn dotnet, although if you were just getting into programming as a hobby the fact that dotnet is free, cross platform, and fully supported would definitely make it preferable over vb6 IMHO.
This is a very good point as well.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 07:05 PM
#39
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by ChrisE
you do know that you can use ADO with Text files
I am aware. I explored this option but decided against it at the time. I wanted to keep it very basic.
However, I am willing to explore this now as a point of comparison. There might be some productivity gains here.....I'll come back to it.
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Nov 12th, 2021, 07:17 PM
#40
Re: VB6 vs .Net......Ending the debate once and for all.
Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber
Isn't it strange how the Americans are unaware of what the rest of the world thinks of their food?
I remember a McDonalds came to my country when I was a teenager. I tasted their burger and good lord that thing was horrible. A more recent experience was Pizza Hut. I regretted wasting money on that trash after I took the first bite. I'm sorry but I really don't know how Americans can live on that stuff. If those two experiences I had of American food is anything to go by, I'd never want to live there. Americans are evolved differently or something because I think some of their food tastes like cardboard. I find it highly unpalatable.
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