My Frickin Neighbor’s Cat

**Bonker Gudd** · May 14th, 2002, 11:24 AM

Don't pity this poor immigrant
My eyes were open when I caught the boat
All I wanted was your shelter, and maybe just a little hope
But you turned your anger on me for the courage that you lack
I don't want your half-assed freedom
You can have the whole deal back
Now let me tell you something
Let's get this straight from the start
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

You said "Bring me your poor and destitute
And I can kick them when they're down"
Cause there's always enough misery
And we'll be sure to share it round
Now I'll turn my anger on you for the decency you lack
For the morals you fail to uphold, your cocaine, crack and smack
To the land that wears it's heart up front
I'm screaming from the back
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

And the ghetto's almost full now
It's time the trash was moved uptown
And the sight of all those beggers on the streets
Must really get you down
Soon they'll turn their anger on you for the promises you broke
For all the lies you told them as their dreams went up in smoke
And I feel I stand among them as I shout this from the heart
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

You built your land on principles decent, brave and true
I find it hard to understand just what went wrong with you
Don't call me harp, don't call me harp

**JPicasso** · May 14th, 2002, 11:30 AM

dude,

where is the reference to the cat?

**Suidae** · May 14th, 2002, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by JPicasso
dude,

where is the reference to the cat?

Dude, I saw it... I don't know what happened... COOL look at all the colors....

anyway..

My neighbors are real a**-holes and their cat has been getting in our yard and leaving buried treasure in the garden, etc. The damn thing also loves to tease the dog by strutting back and forth on the wall with its tail twitching in the air.

Every dog has its day and today was it. My wife called and the poor kitty must have used up its previous eight lives. She wants to know should she return the remains or pretend it didn’t happen.

**CiberTHuG** · May 14th, 2002, 12:17 PM

Don't pretend it didn't happen.

I would really like to know all the laws on this. Wait... I would really like to set all the laws on this.

You let your dog kill that cat. You destroyed that cat. You destroyed someone else's property. You are liable for damages.

That was simple.

Unless that cat posed a clear and present danger to yourself or others, you had no reason to destroy it, or allow it to be destroyed through your own negligence.

I'm still trying to decide about the fence thing. On the one had, you tried to contain your dog to avoid such a problem. But on the other, no one thought the fence would keep the cat out. Should you be asked to do more? I'm not sure.

I'll get back to you on that.

**JPicasso** · May 14th, 2002, 12:21 PM

I still don't see a cat.

**barrk** · May 14th, 2002, 12:26 PM

So, Travis, if a coyote eats my cat is the Air Force Base responsible since the fences they erected didn't keep the coyotes out?

**msimmons** · May 14th, 2002, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by CiberTHuG
But on the other, no one thought the fence would keep the cat out.

But they also knew that the fence wouldn't keep the cat in. The cat was tresspassing on private property so therefore was in the wrong. (unless the dog snached the cat off the fence, then its kinda iffy).
Personaly I think cats should be kept indoors.
Michael

**CiberTHuG** · May 14th, 2002, 01:17 PM

The Air Force doesn't own the coyotes. Same goes for humans, though. If you are camping and are eaten by a bear or die from a spider bite, then that would be too bad. No one is at fault.

But in this case, the dog is clearly owned by someone. So if it were to kill a kid or a cat, then its owners should be held responsible (unless it is the kid or cat can be ruled a clear danger to the dog, in which case it was defending itself).

I'm just not sure about the fence. Should token efforts be counted as enough? I don't know.

**CiberTHuG** · May 14th, 2002, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by msimmons
But they also knew that the fence wouldn't keep the cat in. The cat was tresspassing on private property so therefore was in the wrong. (unless the dog snached the cat off the fence, then its kinda iffy).

I've seen fences that were notably easier for a cat to cross in one direction. If there is a tree or box on one side of a fence that is too high to be crossed, then the cat can cross from that side. But not from the other. *shrug* I don't know.

Personaly I think cats should be kept indoors.

Yes, well, this isn't about what anyone personally likes. I don't mind dogs and cat roaming the neighborhood. But I've never owned a dog that I throught was a credible threat to a cat (or a kid). And my cat clearly is not a threat to another cat, much less a dog.

**barrk** · May 14th, 2002, 01:30 PM

What would you suggest they do....build a bubble around their house in case a cat decides to jump in their backyard? The dog didn't get out of his territory and kill the cat! The wife didn't encourage the dog to kill the cat. The cat was in his territory and had been taunting him. What exactly do you think the people did wrong?

**msimmons** · May 14th, 2002, 01:37 PM

barrk:
If your question was for me, I mentioned that I think cats should be kept indoors. I am a cat lover and never let mine out I had a girfriend once that would let them out and they would get into all sorts of trouble (fights, ringworm, and who knows what else). I do understand that some people think that it is against their nature to be 'kooped up' but I think it is for their benifit

Michael

**barrk** · May 14th, 2002, 01:47 PM

Nope...the question was for Travis (CiberThug). I agree with you, myself!!!!!!!

Call me Katie, please!

**Lord_Rat** · May 14th, 2002, 01:50 PM

My cat is dual indoor and outdoor. I always make sure to bring her in before it gets dark. I have never had a problem except twice she brought in a bird and I thoroughly soaked the cat both times and she quit.

**Bonker Gudd** · May 14th, 2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by msimmons
I think cats should be kept indoors.

You'd put thousands of Chinese Takeaways out of business.

**Suidae** · May 14th, 2002, 03:03 PM

My wife called and she insists that we come clean with what happened. I told her to wrap it up in a towel and I would take it next door when I got home. Boy do I look forward to that task.

I called the Office of Animal Control and explained what happened. The officer basically said "Oh well, the dog was just doing what comes natural". Animal Control will document the incident in case Dick next door calls and says I'm keeping a dangerous animal.

**CiberTHuG** · May 14th, 2002, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by barrk
What would you suggest they do....build a bubble around their house in case a cat decides to jump in their backyard? The dog didn't get out of his territory and kill the cat! The wife didn't encourage the dog to kill the cat. The cat was in his territory and had been taunting him. What exactly do you think the people did wrong?

I've already said what I think went wrong. I'm just not sure how the fence should factor in. There are two ways it could go, and they basicly boil down to this, you have the right to kill anything that enters your yard, or you can only kill something if it poses a danger, regardless of where it is.

If we go with the first way, then there is no wrong in this case. Then I'll just sit out on my front porch and with dog treats, cat treats, and girl scout cookies, and shoot every dog, cat, and girl scout that wanders into my yard.

As to the fence. I could just as easily put up a two foot picket fence, or maybe just a peice of ribbon on a stick. It is clear that my dog isn't going to wander beyond that point. So if your kid or cat wander into my yard and die at the hands of the dog, c'est dommage.

If you don't want the cat in your yard, then file a grievance, and put the responsiblity on the owners. If I don't like you parking your car in my spot, then I complain. If it happens again, you are fined or towed. I don't have the right to destroy your car, regardless of where you park it. I don't have the right to destroy your cat, regardless of how often it wanders into my yard.

So, I guess I know where the fence factors in. It is your attempt at keeping your dog from wandering into someone else's yard.

**barrk** · May 14th, 2002, 04:03 PM

He did kill the cat. The dog did. He took reasonable precautions to keep the dog in his yard. How could it be his fault. The wife obviously feels badly. But it is hardly anyone's fault. that's all I'm saying!

**CiberTHuG** · May 14th, 2002, 04:27 PM

Well, if you say the fence was a reasonable precaution, where do you draw the line? I could say that any fence, no matter how small was a reasonable precaution. Or I could simply say the dog had been to obediance school and would not wander out of the yard.

I've been thinking about this from other angles (and I'm wondering, why am I the only one who's actually thinking about this and not just going with a gut decision, regardless of how it factors into fairness or the precident it will set).

What if I have a tree in my yard that is clearly about to fall. I tie a rope to it and stake it to the ground in an attempt to stay it. You are standing in my yard (or you have parked your car in my driveway) and the tree falls and destroys you or your car (or both).

For that matter, my front porch is rotting, and I know it. You walk up to the door and it collapses, crushing you.

I have no idea. I'm guessing these are not my fault. They were in my yard, I knew about them. And I didn't make you stand there. Besides, I can't be bothered to fix every little thing that could pose a danger. I can't cover my porch in plastic so you don't get a splinter. I can't pick up every little stone in the driveway so you don't stub your toe. I can't get every pine cone and mulberry off the tree so they don't fall on you and bruise your head.

I guess if I put up signs "Beware of Falling Trees", "Do Not Use Porch". Now we are just getting silly. I shouldn't have to warn others about what is going on in my yard.

Can you tell where I'm being sarcastic.

My point is, property is property. Regardless of where I leave it, I shouldn't have to worry about it being destroyed (and on a small tangent, I shouldn't have to worry about it being stolen, too).

But, I shouldn't be allowed to park on train tracks. I don't know... it just isn't a clear issue.

**Suidae** · May 14th, 2002, 05:02 PM

The backyard fence is a 6 foot block wall with two gates. Each gate is clearly marked "Beware of Dog". Both gates are locked from the outside, you must be in the backyard to unlock the gate. The dog is trained not to leave the yard, I can leave a gate open and he will sit at the gate and wait. The dog is very protective of what he considers his family and turf. Yet, my 6 six year old can take his food bowl away when he is eating or a chew bone with not so much as a growl, he will just wag his tail and lick her face.

This "incident" took place in my backyard, his turf.....

**Gandalf_Grey_** · May 14th, 2002, 05:21 PM

then it is completely not your fault.

BG · May 14th, 2002, 06:46 PM

I had a similar Situation. The guy down the street had a poodle that got off of it's Leash. It wandered into my back yard and my German Shepherd ate him. As long as your dog is properly restrained by fence or leash and the other animal is not properly restrained there is no liability to you weather you are on your property or walking down the street. As long as you are following the animal code where you live you're ok.

, and could probably sue him for emotional distress or something. At least where I live any how. Of course that goes for animals only, not people/kids

Tygur · May 14th, 2002, 11:54 PM

Suidae, I have a couple questions. Did the owners of the cat know that the cat comes in your yard and that you don't want it there and neither does your dog? Was there any way that you or your wife could've prevented the death of the cat, or did you just let the dog do it?

If the answer to my first question is no, then that's a strike against you, because you should've let them know.

On to the second question: If you could've prevented the death of the cat and either refused or neglected to do it, then you are probably responsible for the death of the cat, for obvious reasons.

If you didn't even see this coming and the cat owners didn't respond to complaints, then it isn't really your fault.

I once lost a dog because the stupid thing ran across the road in front of a pickup truck. I was walking down my driveway toward my house and the dog was coming with me. Then she suddenly turned and dashed across the road (no leash, I know), completely oblivious of the pickup truck that was going by. I don't hold the driver responsible, because there was nothing he could've done. Also, I knew the stupid dog had no fear of cars, because she was almost hit several times before. Anyhow, I place the blame solidly on the stupid dog (though I should probably take some blame, myself), which should be obvious because of the adjectives I'm choosing for her.

My cat is free to roam outside the house or come in, but in my case, I live in the middle of the woods, at the end of a dirt road. So I can get away with it. Also, my cat is pretty tough. He can actually scare my two dogs and send them running (but that probably doesn't take much, though).

**Bonker Gudd** · May 15th, 2002, 03:10 AM

All dogs should be shot!

No, seriously, I'd just bury the cat.

**NotLKH** · May 15th, 2002, 07:14 AM

Cat?

What Cat?

**GlenW** · May 15th, 2002, 07:18 AM

cat + .22LR =

**JPicasso** · May 15th, 2002, 07:31 AM

My question is how did bonker know about the cat?

You two neighbors?

**GlenW** · May 15th, 2002, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by JPicasso
My question is how did bonker know about the cat?

You two neighbors?

I must be losing it! I'm totally lost now.

**Wally Pipp** · May 15th, 2002, 08:15 AM

Hey Bonker, what happened to the giraffe then ?

**NotLKH** · May 15th, 2002, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Hey Bonker, what happened to the giraffe then ?

Found It!

**Suidae** · May 15th, 2002, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Tygur
Suidae, I have a couple questions. Did the owners of the cat know that the cat comes in your yard and that you don't want it there and neither does your dog? Was there any way that you or your wife could've prevented the death of the cat, or did you just let the dog do it?

The neighbors have "complained" about the dog barking. I've explained to them that the dog is barking at their cat in the yard or on the fence. If they don't want to hear the dog bark then lock up the cat.

I took the cat wrapped up in a towel to the neighbors house when I got home. Both the husband and the wife where home and they went ballistic on me. I apologized, I apologized and I apologized again. I finally had to walk away, my brother who had gone over with me stayed behind at their house for about another 30 minutes. When he came back he said everything was fine and not to worry. The neighbors actually waved to me (first time) when I was leaving for work this morning. I swear my brother could sell ice cubes in the South Pole.

**cafeenman** · May 15th, 2002, 10:34 AM

I don't think it's unreasonable behavior for a dog to attack a smaller animal that comes into its territory.

I think using extreme analogies, such as people killing other people who enter their yards, really has no bearing on the issue.

**CiberTHuG** · May 15th, 2002, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by cafeenman
I don't think it's unreasonable behavior for a dog to attack a smaller animal that comes into its territory.

Fair enough.

So it is fair for a 70 lbs dog to destroy a 10 lbs cat because it is a "smaller animal that comes into [the dog's] territory".

I would conclude that you think it fair for this same 70 lbs dog to destroy a 25 lbs toddler. It meets the criteria? It is a smaller animal that has trespassed against the dog.

You can't just arbitrarily decide that one peice of property gets more protection than another. You can't just decide that it is okay to destroy someone's cat, but that their car is protected by law. What is the difference in these two that makes one acceptable?

**Suidae** · May 15th, 2002, 11:03 AM

How about the thought process.... the ability to reason.

It was instinct with the dog.... Dogs have been chasing cats since day 1. I'm sure he didn't even blink let alone think about it.

**cafeenman** · May 15th, 2002, 11:06 AM

So you would put your toddler over the fence into a yard with a 70 lb dog in it?

You can't tell the difference between a person bashing someone's car with a baseball bat and a dog chasing a cat that enters the yard?

I'm sorry, but if you don't know what the difference is, I probably won't be able to explain it to you.

**CiberTHuG** · May 15th, 2002, 11:12 AM

How about the thought process.... the ability to reason.

Just because he doesn't know the difference, doesn't remove your responsiblity.

Else I could let the 25 lbs toddler shoot and kill you. It's not like he knows the difference.

Besides which, if I can find one dog on this planet that wouldn't kill a cat, then I've undermind the instinct arguement. I can't help but think it now has to do with environment.

Heck, this reminds me of a true story...

My wife and I occasionally house sit for a teacher at her school. We will spend the weekend at this lady's house. We sleep in the bed with both dogs, one of wich is a 70 lbs, three-legged mutt, the other a hound mix (about 50 lbs). After everyone is settled in the bed, the family domestic, long-haired cat will find a little spot on the bed (or on the the 70 lbs beast's back) and sleep.

Two rather large dogs that not only don't kill cats, but protect this one like a little sister.

So, uhm, instinct?

**cafeenman** · May 15th, 2002, 11:14 AM

For some dogs, yes. It is instinctual to protect their family.

**Wally Pipp** · May 15th, 2002, 11:16 AM

I think the dog should be put on the electric chair for mansla ... err .. catslaughter. No cat should be killed by dogs guarding their territory brandishing a katana. Cats are holy and giraffes are just plain stupid.

Put 'im on the chair ! No mercy ! Serves the bloody mongrel right.

**CiberTHuG** · May 15th, 2002, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by cafeenman
You can't tell the difference between a person bashing someone's car with a baseball bat and a dog chasing a cat that enters the yard?

If you can't explain this difference, then I can't help but think that you don't actually know the difference. In which case, I have to ask you to "put up or shut up".

Look, I'm trying to figure out this situation from a logical and fair point of view. That involves defining the role of property, of pets, and responsiblity, and not basing everything on some silly gut reaction.

I own a car, I own a cat, I have a toddler. To what degree are these properties different? What makes that distinction? And if any of these are not property, then what are they, and what defines their relationship to me? To what degree am I responsible for each peice of property? To what degree is each peice of property protected by law?

**CiberTHuG** · May 15th, 2002, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by cafeenman
For some dogs, yes. It is instinctual to protect their family.

Sorry, this was funny. "For some dogs". How do we know which? "For some humans it is instinctual to eat other humans". I guess that is fair.

As to protection? Ohmygod? What was this cat going to do? Did the family have a pet vole that was in danger? If not, then what clear and present danger did this cat pose to the dog or the family that justified this extreme action?

**cafeenman** · May 15th, 2002, 11:23 AM

No, you're not doing anything logical at all. You're using exteme examples that have nothing to do with the point.

It's like a smoker trying to justify smoking because some people live to be 104.

You're argument is out in left field somewhere and I'm not going to "put up" to get sucked into a juvenile game of semantics with you.

If you put your child into a yard with a dog in it then you deserve to fry. It's not the dog's fault, it's your's.

If you value your car as highly as you value your toddler then you serious problems with your values.

Thread: My Frickin Neighbor’s Cat

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