I am distributing a program. I want to be able to log all erros that occur. What i would like to do is have the error emailed to me. I would also like to enclude the users email address so i know where the error occured and can better provide customer service for my app.
I want to send the E-mail without the user knowing about it. No sense in bothering them with that info. If the user has no connection to the internet then the email will be logged in a temporary file and will be emailed as soon as a connection opens up.
Now my question is. Would this be considered spyware? Would you be pissed if you found out a program was doing this?
-We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "Smart"?
-If you can read this, thank a teacher....and since it's in English, thank a soldier.
Have you seen what they send?? They send, say Notepad crashes, they'll send the contents of the file, and I've seen things about Start Menu, Temporary Internet File, Downloaded Programs, Favourites.
Anyway, I think if its going to be in the finished app, then maybe you should ask them if they want to enable it. And tell them that all your sending is errors... somehow you to convince the user that what your sending out isn't about the, but rather errors.
Of course, if this is part of a Beta testing version, it doesn't really matter.
Last edited by Pc_Madness; May 7th, 2002 at 07:20 PM.
Depending on what information you would be sending, I'd say it could be considered spyware, some would consider it spyware regardless of what info it gathered. Whatever you call it, I call it a bad idea.
To answer the more important question of annoying your users:
1. Yeah, I would be pretty po'd if I found this out.
2. It would completely destroy any trust I had in any software, you or your company produced.
Many people have highly confidential information on their systems. I, for one, have information regarding my clients that I am legally obligated to safeguard, and could be subject to huge lawsuits if I don't. Your motivation sounds pure, but your customers interpretation may differ significantly.
I think the main problem is sending the email address. In fact I believe in some contries/regions this may actually be illegal.
I think the microsoft solution is probably the middle ground. If your program is crashing as a result of a bug then you will probably be presenting the user with a message telling them it has happened so why not just have another button asking if they want to email the error to you.
Sometimes an error occurs because the user has done something idiotic and they might not want details of this sending back to you - I speak from experience - I sometimes crash VB with my buggy programming and I'm buggered if I want M$ knowing about it all the time.
Slaine that is exactly why i want to do this. When a User calls up asking for service we can check thier err.log and see what has cuased the problem instead of relying on "Dumb" user to relay the info.
Relying on the user to properly state the error and what casued it is a waste of time and resources. If i could send an error log with thier Email address i could save alot of money
Not to mention the fact i could get all the errors that are Not being reported and fixx them in the next version and make a much better product.
I just think that if you ask the user if they want to send the info they will mostly say no becasue they are afraid of something.
-We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "Smart"?
-If you can read this, thank a teacher....and since it's in English, thank a soldier.
I wasn't suggesting they relay the information over the phone, rather they are asked if the automated email is sent.
If your users are 'afraid of something' when it comes to emailing you info, then in my opinion you are betraying their trust by doing it covertly.
Additionally I would be unhappy that hidden emails were being sent, robbing me of my bandwidth while online. You specifically talk about dialup users - if they are paying phone charges then you could be causing these charges to increase - not good.
Well you have a point about the users that pay a per transaction fee because of long distance. I hadn't thought of that. But really it is rare that people are in that siutation.
-We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "Smart"?
-If you can read this, thank a teacher....and since it's in English, thank a soldier.
Over here in Blighty most people pay for internet connections by the minute, any content sent therefore inurrs a charge.
My suggestion would be to post your question over on the Gibson Research website. These guys are experts on spyware and will give you some really good answers.
Spyware is ANY SOFTWARE which employs a user's Internet connection in the background (the so-called "backchannel") without their knowledge or explicit permission.
Silent background use of an Internet "backchannel" connection MUST BE PRECEDED by a complete and truthful disclosure of proposed backchannel usage, followed by the receipt of explicit, informed, consent for such use.
ANY SOFTWARE communicating across the Internet absent these elements is guilty of information theft and is properly and rightfully termed: Spyware.
Quite clear I think......... Besides what you're suggesting is illegal. In Holland here, whe call it something like illegal Computer Tresspassing I believe.
I think it is spyware. You're talking about sending out personal information from someone's computer without their knowledge.
If you're legitimate about this, and I believe you are based on other posts of yours I've read, then I think you should do what Microsoft does. It doesn't bother me to attend to that window when it pops up. When there is a problem I know I caused, I don't send it. But if the app just crashed then I do. But in no case do I want things being sent off my computer that I never have a chance to say "no" to.
I use ZoneAlarm (software firewall) and it notifies me of any programs trying to access the internet and asks me if I want to let it. If I had some 'shareware' (or not major brand software) trying to access I do believe I would uninstall it fairly quick and would be weary of trying it again. But, if I were warned that it would do that then I may be understanding.
I do almost the same thing though, I develop web apps and I have an error function that will email me the erronious code and user that caused the error. It also pops up a error message saying that I have been notified as well. I mainly do this so when the user calls telling me my app dosn't work I already know what they did wrong (because it couldent be my code right )
So that kind of makes me a hippocrite but I think the difference is that one app is on the harddrive intangeled in the sytem romping amongst the files whereas the other is internet based, resides on my server and (supposedly) cannot harm the users computer.
Michael
I'm off to GalahTech, hope to see you there.
If you don't like the rules they make, refuse to play their game. -- Steve Ignorant.
I see a difference there as well. What Arc is talking about doing is sending himself an e-mail which essentially gives your e-mail address away to someone without your consent. Then there is the issue of what else might they be sending themselves?
I don't think Arc has malevolent intentions but you never know what someone is doing if they're doing it without you knowing about it. OK, that was obvious. Sorry
Arc, I understand your desire to glean the proper error info without direct intervention from the user, but I don't think it's necessary to make it covert. Sure, you're bound to lose, say thirty percent of your error reports from those users who are afraid of sending any information to you.
The other seventy percent will mostly respond 'yes' when prompted to send an error report, if they're told exactly what's in it (ie, let them view the message in it's entirety). Besides, if the user can see the error message themselves, perhaps they can fix the problem if it's THEIR fault and not yours.
So, why not get the best of both worlds: During installation, explain to the user that they have the option to send error messages, and have them select yes/no. Most users will choose yes, and then your error reports will be sent without interference from the user. Those that select 'no' might do so for bandwith reasons, fear of sharing too much info, etc.
You could even provide them an option to receive a copy of the error email - that way they'll have no fears of what you're sending (except for the extremely paranoid who will be wondering if you 'doctored' their report and not yours).
Of course, this assumes your app HAS any bugs. I always program perfectly... it's just my users that screw things up.
- Kronix
"I have not failed. I have merely found 10,000 ways that won't work." - Thomas Edison
Just do like Microsoft does, bringing up a "Do you want to Send this info?". According the description above, that ain't going on in the background, as the user has seen it. I think everyones going abit over the top with this illegal stuff. Surely if you warn them about this little feature before they download it( or Install it), then its there problem, as they have agreed to downloading the app and using its features(your little error reporting thing).
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