Have you ever been wrong?

**simonm** · May 1st, 2002, 09:39 AM

People come here to have all kinds of debates and get into all kinds of arguments but I'm wondering if you've ever come along with one opinion and then changed your mind after a debate on this forum.

So, has any discussion on this forum (programming aside) and changed their opinion at the end of it?

**barrk** · May 1st, 2002, 09:45 AM

I have altered my opinion based on a debate in here. I haven't completed converted my opinion but several points were made that made me think my opinion was a little rigid.

**SjR** · May 1st, 2002, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by simonm
People come here to have all kinds of debates and get into all kinds of arguments but I'm wondering if you've ever come along with one opinion and then changed your mind after a debate on this forum.

So, has any discussion on this forum (programming aside) and changed their opinion at the end of it?

Often

**JPicasso** · May 1st, 2002, 09:52 AM

Yes.

I used to like many of you.

hehe.

**simonm** · May 1st, 2002, 09:54 AM

Katie

I have altered my opinion based on a debate in here.

Care to elaborate on what, or is it personal?

**simonm** · May 1st, 2002, 09:56 AM

Personally, I wouldn't say that I've undergone any deep philisophical shifts but I have changed my mind about the old "Does 1 = 0.9999..." debate.

I now fully agree that it does but I used to take the opposite view.

**barrk** · May 1st, 2002, 10:01 AM

I'm going to post this but if I get one single flame as a result I'll hold you personally responsible, Simon

I was very, very upset after 9/11. I didn't understand why a religion would advocate violence against citizens of another country based on politics. I have since altered my opinion that it was not the religion that advocates violence but sick humans who pervert the very religon they profess to follow.

**GlenW** · May 1st, 2002, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by simonm
Personally, I wouldn't say that I've undergone any deep philisophical shifts but I have changed my mind about the old "Does 1 = 0.9999..." debate.

I now fully agree that it does but I used to take the opposite view.

I think I would take some convincing of that.

**simonm** · May 1st, 2002, 10:07 AM

Katie

I'm going to post this but if I get one single flame as a result I'll hold you personally responsible, Simon

Hey, it's always hard admitting to being wrong. Just trying to say the word "wrong" out loud and it sticks in my throat!

GlenW

I think I would take some convincing of that.

Well, this is not the place to start trying to convince you but there are plenty of old threads on the subject if you're interested.

Anyway, the point is, I changed my mind, accepting that my previous opinion was wrong.

**Wally Pipp** · May 1st, 2002, 10:09 AM

My whole life, opinions and conduct are wrong, out of date and worryingly obsolete

**simonm** · May 1st, 2002, 10:16 AM

Oh yeah, and I was forced to admit that Belgian chips were better than English chips even though I've never tried Belgian chips purely on the basis of rational debate (and the fact that they double fry them).

**CiberTHuG** · May 1st, 2002, 11:06 AM

Nah, I'm always right. And those times when I'm not, I'm either talking to people who don't care to logically explain anything, or are unable.

I know I've changed my stance on a few things, religion being one. I used to think that there probably isn't a god, but if there were, oh well, I'm wrong. But now I think I'm scared that there might actually be a god and that the Christians are right. If so, he is a horrible god and I can't help but think that we have to fight against him. Scary.

Originally posted by barrk
I'm going to post this but if I get one single flame as a result I'll hold you personally responsible, Simon

I was very, very upset after 9/11. I didn't understand why a religion would advocate violence against citizens of another country based on politics. I have since altered my opinion that it was not the religion that advocates violence but sick humans who pervert the very religon they profess to follow.

This isn't a flame. While the attack on 9/11 was not advocated by a major religion, I don't think you should go too upset if it was. Think of it like this... those who answer to a god, any god, think there is more at stake than politics of the mortal world. So if the Pope got a Holy call to sink the Middle East under the seas in an effort to destroy the Jews and Muslims, well... I can't fault them for wanting to do that. They think they've got a mandate from god, and who am I to argue with that.

'Course, they have to be stopped. Just because their delusion isn't real doesn't make it any less valid.

I hope that makes sense.

**SurfDemon** · May 1st, 2002, 11:10 AM

Apparently, I was wrong about the whole Stork bringing the baby thing.

Man, that was a shocker.

......

Seriously, I have on occasion changed my perspective on certain subjects, maybe not always 180 degrees, but certainly by a few degrees.

The most notable being that I didn't really believe creationists actually existed, until I came here.

I do however try to keep an open mind on all subjects, and I rarely believe that mine is the only valid view point (except for where the creationists are concerned

)

SD

**simonm** · May 1st, 2002, 11:10 AM

I wonder who else can admit to being wrong and changing their mind? I must admit, it's quite liberating actually!

**CiberTHuG** · May 1st, 2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by SurfDemon
The most notable being that I didn't really believe creationists actually existed, until I came here.

What? Does the Theory of Evolution not apply here?

Creationist are just Evolutionist in denial (who think that Evolutionist are just Creationist in denial).

Sorry, I'm bored. There should be a tangent flag you can set for posts.

**HarryW** · May 1st, 2002, 11:41 AM

I was sure the universe was deterministic. Now I'm pretty sure it's probabilistic. That all happened quite a long time ago though, if you're wondering where the threads were.

**NotLKH** · May 1st, 2002, 12:33 PM

I used to think Keda was a combination of a humanoid 10 % of the time, and an AI he had developed 90% of the time.

I've now changed my mind, having tentatively placed him in the:

A) God-is-Testing-us
B) God-is-jerking-our-chain
or the:
C)God-hit-over-the-head-and-has-amnesia-so-he's-trying-to-remember-what-we're-all-about

categories.

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2002, 02:23 PM

Simon; you changed my mind about the EU, so thanks

**sail3005** · May 1st, 2002, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by simonm
Personally, I wouldn't say that I've undergone any deep philisophical shifts but I have changed my mind about the old "Does 1 = 0.9999..." debate.

I now fully agree that it does but I used to take the opposite view.

could you post a link to a few threads about this?

**HarryW** · May 1st, 2002, 04:29 PM

Sail, there was at least one very long thread debating it in the maths forum. Take a look. Personally I think it makes perfect sense that 0.9999 (recurring) is equal to 1 but it seems a lot of people find that difficult to believe (rightly or wrongly).

**sail3005** · May 1st, 2002, 06:26 PM

k, i'll look for that.

IMO i think that in all practical and sane purposes .99999999 is equal to one, though i do not think that technically it is the same. .999999 is infinitly close to 1, and infinit series that approches 1 but will never get there.

**HarryW** · May 1st, 2002, 06:29 PM

Well I'm not going to debate it here, that's what the other thread's for

I reckon it is literally equal to 1 though.

**DragonFly** · May 1st, 2002, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by NotLKH
I used to think Keda was a combination of a humanoid 10 % of the time, and an AI he had developed 90% of the time.

I used to think something similar Lou... but now I place him in the

A)Great fun to hang out with.
B)Excellent student and teacher.
C)Totally gifted in so many ways.
D)Very close and good friend.

Categories.

(kd):-.''l

**rjlohan** · May 1st, 2002, 07:03 PM

Yes, but not from threads here. You've none of you swayed me yet. My ridiculous opinions are far too formidable to be crushed be the likes of ye.

**DragonFly** · May 1st, 2002, 07:19 PM

hehehe.. somehow rj, I get the feeling you wouldn't admit it publicly even if you thought it

But then again..... I could be wrong

**siyan** · May 1st, 2002, 07:32 PM

i'm too idealistic.

-C

**rjlohan** · May 1st, 2002, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by DragonFly
hehehe.. somehow rj, I get the feeling you wouldn't admit it publicly even if you thought it

But then again..... I could be wrong

Arrogance is a gift from god, my dear.

**cafeenman** · May 1st, 2002, 07:46 PM

I'm just straight up wishy washy. I like a good debate and (especially) when someone goes after me personally, then I'll fight to the bitter end.

But I have to say that if someone has a good argument I'll tuck that away and consider it later while still maintaining my stance. Ocassionally, someone will say something that makes me go "Damn! That makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it like that before."

The real trouble is I can see almost everything from multiple view points. I'm talking about real issues now, not just subjective debate like who's a genius

More along the lines of abortion, trying to break up fights between other countries, etc. One day I may feel one way about it and the next I may feel the opposite. Just depends on how I'm thinking at any given time.

The Israel/Palestine thing is an excellent example. The only thing I'm really clear on is that what's his face from Palestine is a criminal. But that doesn't make Palestine wrong. The more I read the more I see both sides are overwhelmingly right and both sides are overwhelmingly wrong.

It's hard to have a a clearly defined point of view when you realize how much there is that you don't know. That's why zealots are scarey. They just come off as intolerant and ignorant to me and they tend to have some type of power. They are so sure they right and don't even concede that there is a possibility that there may be another side to the issue.

OK, I've rambled long enough. Not sure if I answered the question, because I don't remember what it was now.

**Gandalf_Grey_** · May 1st, 2002, 07:59 PM

debating is fun, even if i am completely wrong, know i am completely wrong, and don't agree with the point i am arguing, i will still defend my topic to the last (linux and opera are my true opinions though)

**JungleMan** · May 1st, 2002, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Nah, I'm always right. And those times when I'm not, I'm either talking to people who don't care to logically explain anything, or are unable.

Of course, that's why Linux is the best OS for everything and Win2K is an unstable POS because it's made by MS...

**kikelinus** · May 1st, 2002, 08:10 PM

I'll probably never completely change my opinion on certain topics, no matter what....

What is likely to happen, is that I'll modify my opinions, since new points of view are taken into account

**JungleMan** · May 1st, 2002, 08:15 PM

A lot of my debates are computer related

I defend my beliefs, my country, and AMD processors.

I also occassionally step in in defense of Microsoft because a lot of people treat them unfairly just because their business merits arent' the best. To be quite honest a lot of their stuff is pretty damn cool, and some of it sucks. Of course I get called a Microsoft zealot, but oh well

I'm not brand-loyal, I'm really not. And it pisses me off when people say "Hah well that card beat the other card by 25% for the same price, but it's made by XYZ so it must suck!" or "Well yeah this piece of software does this and that and the other but I'm not buying it because it's made by company XYZ!". It's only companies, they don't care about you, why should you care about them. Buy the one that suits you the best, not judging the company itself or even their past history.

On one of the other boards, I step in defending VIA chipsets and ATI video cards since both offer good bang for the buck

Nuff said...

**Gandalf_Grey_** · May 1st, 2002, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by jpbtennisman

I defend my beliefs, my country, and AMD processors.

me too, although i usually defend my agnostic beliefs however i do argue in favour of AMD alot

and few people will win in a country debate (i have gotten alot of practise out of arguing with alot of people over the years). I am usually the one against microsoft, although i think XP (and 2k) kick ass, though i personally like linux better

**kedaman** · May 2nd, 2002, 02:42 AM

All this time, I have been defending logic, rational and ideological thinking, realities that only consists of pure information, I thought it was right of me to become more and more independent from the physical world, to experience ultimate freedom and I lost something very important as well, I was about to loose everything I had and ready to do everything to change the world for the similar purpose by uniting humanity and withdrawing materialistic thinking and develope a superconscious being, sort of Gaia.

I want to think myself as human, not artificial intelligence, because I realised that I'm essentially an irrational being, that didn't want to be trapped in a state of mentality where your individuality is lost to take place for something larger, and I have Dragonfly to thank for that (DF):-. She made me realise the importance in being an individual, even if that individuality caused so much suffering in the world, it would still cause equally much happiness and I value those experiences, more than anything else now.

I have yet to complete the project I started to work on, and it is modified to serve another entity in my philosophy, your individuality.

**simonm** · May 2nd, 2002, 03:04 AM

Well, I must say that I'm touched buy everyone's moving stories of having to adapt their world view.

Personally, I think that it shows a strength of character to admit to, at least having to modify your opinion, and at most to being completely and utterly wrong.

It is a characteristic that I would do well to aquire and I do try, it's just so hard!

**Wally Pipp** · May 2nd, 2002, 03:09 AM

I'm all wrong simon as I find myself constantly changing opinions tailored to the current situation.
I also find my views sometimes obsolete, inaccurate, twisted, out of touch with reality, deranged, disturbing and lagging behind on the general consensus.

But whoever cared about my opinion anyway ? It's just a faint voice in a sea of opinions. One that is rapidly drowning.

I may need therapy

**cafeenman** · May 2nd, 2002, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Wally Pipp

I may need therapy

I spent nearly ten years working in the mental health field. I never saw anyone get better from therapy. There were those who got better naturally and those who felt better because of medication. But I honestly never felt anyone who was seeking therapy ever really got help. At best they felt a little better at the end of the session and then they went back into their "real" world again. I never could figure out how we actually helped anyone.

That was especially true of psychiatrists who only seemed to be studying patients and not really helping except to prescribe meds. The Psychologists and social workers faired a little better.

I taught a life skills class that was very philosophical in nature. I don't know if that helped anyone, but I learned a lot and my life has improved because of it.

I honestly think that the best thing a person can do for themselves to get out of whatever rut they're in is to change their surroundings and force themselves to be different even if they don't like it or it's uncomfortable. Going back into the same dreary house and doing the same dreary things only promotes dreariness.

Using myself as an example... I'm an introvert. I don't like being around people. Consequently I don't go out much. But sometimes I have to force myself to get out just to keep from getting into a rut. Normally being alone is fine with me, but no always. When I start feeling like I'm going to be depressed, I have to do something about it quickly or I'll get so bad that I won't do anything to improve and I end up in a vicious circle. More depressed, less motivation to do anthing about it = more depressed, etc.

I do pretty well now.

**DragonFly** · May 2nd, 2002, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by kedaman

I want to think myself as human, not artificial intelligence, because I realised that I'm essentially an irrational being, that didn't want to be trapped in a state of mentality where your individuality is lost to take place for something larger, and I have Dragonfly to thank for that (DF):-. She made me realise the importance in being an individual, even if that individuality caused so much suffering in the world, it would still cause equally much happiness and I value those experiences, more than anything else now.

Keddie, I am sure you overstate the small part I have played in all of this new found self-realisation...

But if I have contributed at all, then I am delighted, and very much look forward to you sharing this new philosophy with me.

(kd):-.''l

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