A little advice please

**HarryW** · Apr 9th, 2002, 06:39 PM

Hi all.

I am getting to the stage where I really want to upgrade my now aging computer. It's starting to get too jerky in certain circumstances to play games properly.

So.... currently have an Athlon 550, some PC100 RAM and a Geforce 1 w/32 meg DDRRAM. I'm planning on keeping the old components and getting a few new bits and pieces that will let me keep the old on as a server - ie no monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. So I need: case, motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics card, and a couple other little things. One of the things I'm more concerned about this time around than I was when I got my current machine is the heatsink & fan. I've had a lot of problems with overheating, and I'd like to make sure I don't have them again.

I'm thinking of something along the lines of an Athlon XP 1800. Since I don't really follow the whole hardware industry thing any more, I'd appreciate some advice on a decent motherboard (more concerned with performance than features), heatsink & fan, and graphics card.

I see the graphics card market is pretty wide in the price range now. Radeons and GeForce 3/4s seem to be the top performers in the consumer market. I reckon I have an upper limit of around £200 for the graphics card. My preferred gaming resolution would be 800x600 or 1024x768, and 1200x1024 for non-gaming use. I'm more interested in smooth framerates than really high quality images if there's a tradeoff.

Also, since cooling is important to me, what kind of case is good for cooling? I need at least 2 external 5¼" bays, 1 external 3½" bays and 2 internal 3½" bays. Obviously, external bays can be used as internals.

The other components I know enough about to make a decent decision, but if you have any strong opinions please feel free to voice them.

Cheers for your thoughts

**JungleMan** · Apr 9th, 2002, 06:59 PM

case, motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics card, and a couple other little things

Case...go with Antec or Chieftec if you can find them. Read ricmitch_uk's thread...there's a store mentioned in the UK that carries Antec/Chieftec cases.

Motherboard...purely performance, I'd go with Epox's 8K3A or 8KHA+ (the 8K3A is newer). Abits are good too but tend to run more expensive than the Epox boards and they aren't much better if at all...

CPU...XP 1800 or 1900 are good.

Graphics...either a GeForce3 Ti200 or a Radeon 8500. If the Ti200 is significantly cheaper than the 8500 go with that-- but the 8500 is a better card.

For a heatsink I would get a Thermalright AX-7. If you can't find that one check out the Alpha PAL8045 or Swiftech MCX462. They all use 80 millimeter fans which means you can use higher-airflow fans with less noise (80mm fans don't need to spin as many times to push the same amt of air)

Also of course remember to use some thermal grease with that heatsink...I prefer Arctic Silver..

**kalicki** · Apr 9th, 2002, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by jpbtennisman
Graphics...either a GeForce3 Ti200 or a Radeon 8500. If the Ti200 is significantly cheaper than the 8500 go with that-- but the 8500 is a better card.

I agree with everything but this. I'd wait until the end of this month until the GF4 Ti4200 comes out. Better performance for sub $200 US dollar prices....

**chrisjk** · Apr 9th, 2002, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by kalicki
Better performance for sub $200 US dollar prices....

we'll be lucky it it's under $300 here

**JungleMan** · Apr 9th, 2002, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by kalicki

I agree with everything but this. I'd wait until the end of this month until the GF4 Ti4200 comes out. Better performance for sub $200 US dollar prices....

I'm waiting for the Radeon 8700s. Or even for the 8500s to drop in price.

**kalicki** · Apr 9th, 2002, 07:16 PM

Which, still, is only slightly over his price range... Current conversions put $300 at £209.... Oh well...

BTW, they overclock to very close to Ti4600 speeds...

**JungleMan** · Apr 9th, 2002, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by kalicki
Which, still, is only slightly over his price range... Current conversions put $300 at £209.... Oh well...

BTW, they overclock to very close to Ti4600 speeds...

Bah I'm waiting for the 8800.

**chrisjk** · Apr 9th, 2002, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by kalicki
Which, still, is only slightly over his price range... Current conversions put $300 at £209.... Oh well...

i know, I was just venting my annoyance at the large price difference between anything sold there and here

**Iain17** · Apr 10th, 2002, 05:24 AM

Cases for cooling, you want to look at the Coolermaster and Lian-Li cases.

I have the Coolermaster ATCS-200 from this page , and it fookin rocks. Though i have some friends that have Lian Li ones and say they are very good as well.

Try here for Lian Li, though i am sure you can get them cheaper elsewhere.

**JungleMan** · Apr 10th, 2002, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Iain17
Cases for cooling, you want to look at the Coolermaster and Lian-Li cases.

I have the Coolermaster ATCS-200 from this page , and it fookin rocks. Though i have some friends that have Lian Li ones and say they are very good as well.

Try here for Lian Li, though i am sure you can get them cheaper elsewhere.

Yep those are nice...bit out of most people's price range though

My friend has a Coolermaster ATC-110. Awesome case.

**HarryW** · Apr 10th, 2002, 06:51 AM

Thanks for all the replies folks. I'll take a better look at all your suggestions this evening when I get home from work.

The main thing I am still unsure about is the graphics card, as I said. What's the deal at the moment? Are we in the middle of waiting for the next wave of cards or have some new ones just been released and we're waiting for the stupid prices to drop, or err... what? I reckon I have about £200 to spend on it, like I said, but it seems like the best cards are way over that. Are they just freshly released? Likely to come down a bit any time soon?

**JungleMan** · Apr 10th, 2002, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by HarryW
Thanks for all the replies folks. I'll take a better look at all your suggestions this evening when I get home from work.

The main thing I am still unsure about is the graphics card, as I said. What's the deal at the moment? Are we in the middle of waiting for the next wave of cards or have some new ones just been released and we're waiting for the stupid prices to drop, or err... what? I reckon I have about £200 to spend on it, like I said, but it seems like the best cards are way over that. Are they just freshly released? Likely to come down a bit any time soon?

Yep, ATI's putting out some new stuff and NVIDIA is putting out a mid-range solution.

In 6 months we're going to see some truly awesome stuff though...NVIDIA is putting out some totally different card and ATI isn't too far behind either.

**HarryW** · Apr 10th, 2002, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by jpbtennisman
In 6 months we're going to see some truly awesome stuff though...

Heh, this is exactly the same as it always is

The question is: is it worth waiting?

**JungleMan** · Apr 10th, 2002, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Heh, this is exactly the same as it always is

The question is: is it worth waiting?

We're in the middle of a new generation of cards, just wait for ATI to put out their Radeon 8800 and then make a decision.

Jethro · Apr 10th, 2002, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Thanks for all the replies folks. I'll take a better look at all your suggestions this evening when I get home from work.

The main thing I am still unsure about is the graphics card, as I said. What's the deal at the moment? Are we in the middle of waiting for the next wave of cards or have some new ones just been released and we're waiting for the stupid prices to drop, or err... what? I reckon I have about £200 to spend on it, like I said, but it seems like the best cards are way over that. Are they just freshly released? Likely to come down a bit any time soon?

We are always in the middle of waiting for the next batch to arrive Harry Radeon 8500 ... should be priced well at moment...

**HarryW** · Apr 11th, 2002, 03:25 PM

Okay, currently looking at video cards & prices.

Which is better:

Radeon 8500 64 meg - £205
Radeon 8500 128 meg - £??? (don't know)
GeForce 4 Ti4400 128 meg - £236

?

**JungleMan** · Apr 11th, 2002, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Okay, currently looking at video cards & prices.

Which is better:

Radeon 8500 64 meg - £205
Radeon 8500 128 meg - £??? (don't know)
GeForce 4 Ti4400 128 meg - £236

?

GF4 Ti4400 is a great deal only £30 more than the 8500... I'd go with that.

**HarryW** · Apr 11th, 2002, 03:29 PM

Damn you're quick

Cheers.

**JungleMan** · Apr 11th, 2002, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Damn you're quick

Cheers.

Just happened to be surfing

**HarryW** · Apr 11th, 2002, 03:32 PM

Alright now at the site I'm looking at I have a choice between manufacturers MSI and Sparkle. AFAIK manufacturer makes very little difference unless you want TV-out and that kinda thing. Is that right?

**JungleMan** · Apr 11th, 2002, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Alright now at the site I'm looking at I have a choice between manufacturers MSI and Sparkle. AFAIK manufacturer makes very little difference unless you want TV-out and that kinda thing. Is that right?

Also helps to choose a good manufacturer for 2-D quality.

MSI is supposed to be decent but Gainward is the best. Never heard of Sparkle making vidoe cards, they make decent power supplies though.

**HarryW** · Apr 15th, 2002, 10:11 AM

Well I just placed the orders today. Thanks for the advice everyone

**JungleMan** · Apr 15th, 2002, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Well I just placed the orders today. Thanks for the advice everyone

Cool...what was your final parts list?

**HarryW** · Apr 15th, 2002, 07:02 PM

Well, from memory (so it's a little fuzzy):

Athlon XP 1900
Abit KG7
256 Mb PC2100 DDRRAM (might get more later)
MSI GeForce4 Ti4400
Coolermaster ATCS-200 case
Some kind of Enermax PSU with 2 fans on it
An Alpha heatsink (forgot what model number)
Delta 80mm fan and Arctic Silver 3 paste

Also got a sub & speakers set to replace my crappy unpowered speakers.

Planning on cannibalising the machine I'm using at the moment for the rest of the stuff. I forgot to order another floppy disk drive and a cheap CD drive to stick in this machine. I'll probably make this into a Linux box and network them.

It would have all arrived tomorrow but I placed the order with 2 different companies and the first company cocked up the credit card transactions and to cut a long story short I ended up going over my credit limit with the second order. So it's all delayed about 1 day, and I should get it Wednesday sometime

**JungleMan** · Apr 15th, 2002, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Well, from memory (so it's a little fuzzy):

Athlon XP 1900
Abit KG7
256 Mb PC2100 DDRRAM (might get more later)
MSI GeForce4 Ti4400
Coolermaster ATCS-200 case
Some kind of Enermax PSU with 2 fans on it
An Alpha heatsink (forgot what model number)
Delta 80mm fan and Arctic Silver 3 paste

Also got a sub & speakers set to replace my crappy unpowered speakers.

Planning on cannibalising the machine I'm using at the moment for the rest of the stuff. I forgot to order another floppy disk drive and a cheap CD drive to stick in this machine. I'll probably make this into a Linux box and network them.

It would have all arrived tomorrow but I placed the order with 2 different companies and the first company cocked up the credit card transactions and to cut a long story short I ended up going over my credit limit with the second order. So it's all delayed about 1 day, and I should get it Wednesday sometime

Not sure why you got the KG7 exactly, since it has an older chipset (AMD 761), and you realize the Deltas are loud right?

Overall...nice system there gonna rock

**kalicki** · Apr 15th, 2002, 07:27 PM

Rather similar to mine... I want 9 PM to come already, damnit, so I can see the estimated arrival time for my stuff!!!!

**Iain17** · Apr 16th, 2002, 03:46 AM

Very nice system indeed, very similar to mine as well, though a little faster and with better graphics, git.

One point is that to make the most of that case you want black drives, trust me they work really well.

Its one of the reasons why that case is so good, the black bit around the drive area that is, simply because most aluminium cases look crap with both beige and black drives, but this case looks the dogs with black drives. Though it took me ages to find a decent black CD-RW drive.

**HarryW** · Apr 16th, 2002, 04:39 AM

Justin: I got the KG7 though ignorance then. The later Abit motherboards seemed to have only USB and no PS/2, which is not good for me. Maybe I missed one. Oh well, never mind

Iain: To be honest, making it look pretty isn't my number 1 concern but thanks for the tip

**JungleMan** · Apr 16th, 2002, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by HarryW
Justin: I got the KG7 though ignorance then. The later Abit motherboards seemed to have only USB and no PS/2, which is not good for me. Maybe I missed one. Oh well, never mind

Yeah you missed the KR7A. And Epox is a great OCers board too...why not Epox?

Oh well...it'll be good anyway.

**HarryW** · Apr 16th, 2002, 08:24 AM

The KR7A seems to have RAID on it though so I didn't bother since I don't want to pay for it when I'm not gonna use it. Ah well, it's probably just the limited product list of the vendor I bought from. They sell a few different manufacturers' boards, but not Epox.

Doesn't matter now anyway

**HarryW** · Apr 18th, 2002, 08:33 PM

Well it's all built and I ran a 3D Mark 2001 SE benchmark, and got 6535. Is that any good?

I'm not sure if I have the CPU set to the correct speed either; it comes up as a 1200 on the startup screen but I think the 1900 XP is running at something like 1.6 GHz. Any idea if I'm supposed to change it in the BIOS? I don't really want to overclock, I just want to run it at the recommended frequency.

**JungleMan** · Apr 18th, 2002, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Well it's all built and I ran a 3D Mark 2001 SE benchmark, and got 6535. Is that any good?

I'm not sure if I have the CPU set to the correct speed either; it comes up as a 1200 on the startup screen but I think the 1900 XP is running at something like 1.6 GHz. Any idea if I'm supposed to change it in the BIOS? I don't really want to overclock, I just want to run it at the recommended frequency.

Yes, it should be a 100/133 jumper or somit to that effect. You have it set at 100.

Check the board manual...if it's not a jumper it's in the BIOS. Not sure where to find it on Abit boards exactly but it's somewhere.

That also explains why your 3dMark score is lower than it should be...

**HarryW** · Apr 18th, 2002, 08:51 PM

Ah yeah, wrong FSB speed, that would make sense. Cheers

**HarryW** · Apr 19th, 2002, 01:27 PM

Fixed that prob (it wasn't the FSB, it was just set wrong), and made a couple updates, and have a new score of 9202. Better?

**JungleMan** · Apr 19th, 2002, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by HarryW
Fixed that prob (it wasn't the FSB, it was just set wrong), and made a couple updates, and have a new score of 9202. Better?

That's pretty awesome. Overclock it a little and get 10000 or more...click the link in my signature. It's quite easy to OC a video card without spending any money.

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