Capoiera

**HarryW** · Apr 11th, 2002, 07:01 AM

I remember a while ago a couple of people said they were thinking of trying/going to try a Capoiera class. I think it might have been Paul (Warren) ?

How did it go? What did you think?

**HarryW** · Apr 12th, 2002, 10:35 AM

Come on, answer damnit!

**Gaffer** · Apr 12th, 2002, 10:39 AM

/throws karate chop at Harry's jugular...

hhaaaiiiiiAIAIAIAIAIAI....

**HarryW** · Apr 12th, 2002, 11:08 AM

*bong sau* *gum sau* *Gaffer keels over* *jut sau*

Come on, you can do better than that

**Gaffer** · Apr 12th, 2002, 11:11 AM

hang on a moment....ned training...

Wax On, Wax Off, Wax On, Wax Off, Wax On, Wax Off....

**plenderj** · Apr 12th, 2002, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by The Oxford English Dictionary

capoeira /%kapU"eIr@/
· n. a system of physical discipline and movement originating among Brazilian slaves.
– ORIGIN from Port.

interesting

**Arbiter** · Apr 12th, 2002, 05:30 PM

Harry,

As you know I'm one of those martial arty types although I've never tried Capoeira on the ground that it would probably kill me.

A colleague of mine, the fella I (used to) go to the gym with, does it and some of the moves he does when we're sparring are frankly mind boggling.

His comment on Capoeira is...

"As a martial art/self defense tool, it's useless compared to Boxing, Karate etc but as a form of physical fitness it's great."

I, for one, have no intention of leaping through the air and doing upside kicks to peoples heads (at least not until I'm in a bit better shape) but when my colleague starts going it's hard not to feel just a little awe.

For those who're not sure what Capoeira is, then if you've ever seen Tekken3/Tekken Tag then it's the martial art practiced by Eddy. And those moves are real ones too...

As Plend found, its origins are with Brazilian slaves who needed a form of self defense, but obviously couldn't all just line up and practice punching/kicking and sparring away otherwise the slave traders would give 'em a good beating. So they disguised it as a dance. Because it's so flowery it's not as effective as the 'standard' martial arts, but against thugs it's pretty good I guess...

**HarryW** · Apr 12th, 2002, 05:30 PM

It's a martial art that was hidden in a dance by Portugese slaves in Brazil so that the authorities wouldn't prevent them from practising it. There's a basic sequence of steps called 'Jinga' (I think) from which all the other techniques can flow. Lots of dirty tricks in it too.

If you've played or seen Tekken 3, it's what Eddie Gordo does.

**HarryW** · Apr 12th, 2002, 05:35 PM

Heh, posted at the exact same time

I get the impression that it's fallen foul of the form-over-function emphasis that some modern wushu seems to have suffered from. I mean, some people are more concerned with how it looks that how it works.

There seems to 2 or 3 different styles of Capoeira, one of which is kind of lost now. From what I've read, a lot of white middle class types started taking an interest in it and getting it taught to them a hundred or so years ago, and I guess some of it has kind of diluted through an unwillingness to teach them the whole thing, and them teaching a slightly less potent version to the next generation.

Actually, hey what do I know? I'm just going on what I've read and not what I've seen

**Arbiter** · Apr 13th, 2002, 09:07 AM

Capoeira is more than likely than most to suffer from that as it's a very 'showy' art (part of having to be disguised as dance).

The basic stance as you say is actually a kind of minor dance (you step in a 3 sided square kind of).

Even in its undiluted form it's still not as effective as say Karate, because as you leap on your hands somone would just boot you in the head.

It looks good though....

**HarryW** · Apr 14th, 2002, 05:52 PM

Well... maybe... I'm very reluctant to slate an art or say one is 'better' than the other because IMO it's the artist that is good or bad, not the art. If it's good enough to have survived for hundreds of years then it must have something going for it.

**Arbiter** · Apr 14th, 2002, 08:51 PM

You have to bear in mind what it was used for.

It was designed to be disguised as a dance so all the moves are necessarily flowery so they're not immediately recognisble as a self defense mechanism. If the slaves were doing Japanese Katas they'd have got a shoeing.

Most Wushu (argh, Chinese Japanse wash your knees eat your peas!)* martial arts had no such limitations. A kick is a kick, no messing around. Ergo, the moves are much simpler and faster.

Compare the time it takes to leap on your hand and swing your foot at someones head to the time it takes to flick out a snap kick with your leading leg.

Well, whenever I've been sparring with the guy I go to the gym with and he opts to use Capoeira rather than a more focused martial art (Karate, Jiu Jitsu) I always flatten him.

A focused stance and attack is more effective than a lot of dancing and swaying. The only benefit it provides is that I'm never sure where the next attack's coming from. But when he starts it's pretty obvious and I can get in with a quick counter.

When he sticks to wushu arts he always leathers me as he's got 8 years more experience than me, he's faster than me, outweighs me and he's basically a double hard bastard!

Hence his comment which I quoted earlier.

**nishantp** · Apr 14th, 2002, 09:32 PM

Lol i know this guy who can take on anyone with Eddy on Tekken...

**HarryW** · Apr 15th, 2002, 04:20 AM

So, if it's not actually any use, why do you think it has survived after the abolishment of slavery?

Behemoth · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:00 AM

exercise and art...

anyway nobody said it was no use, just that it was no use to someone that was versed in a more efficient art.

**Ianpbaker** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by Arbiter
(you step in a 3 sided square kind of).

Isn't that a triangle

**Arbiter** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:42 AM

I never said it was no use, it's simply not as effective as a more efficient art.

And as quoted, it's great for exercise as it improves balance, mobility and flexibility more than other martial arts.

I'm in no way slating the art or claiming it's crap or totally useless and you won't find anywhere in my posts that I've done either.

I'm just pointing out the differences between it and other martial arts.

Why don't you go a class or two yourself and have a see. It's the best way to decide whether to do it or not.

**HarryW** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:46 AM

I'm not planning on doing it. I started the thread purely out of curiosity, and I still haven't got an answer!

**Arbiter** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by Ianpbaker

Isn't that a triangle

Give me a stick and I shall beat you with it...

It's a sortof 'thing'... y'know...

Looks like this
_
| |

Your left leg is a the top left corner and your right is at the top right. You shift your weight to your left and bring your right leg to the bottom left corner, then you swing it back to the top right corner and shift your left leg to the bottom right corner. And carryon repeating that.

Or something like that.

**Ianpbaker** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:49 AM

you do the okie - dokey and you all fall down ????? am I on the right track here ?

**Arbiter** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by HarryW
I'm not planning on doing it. I started the thread purely out of curiosity, and I still haven't got an answer!

You got an answer from me. Sort of. I've been to classes and watched and seen Robin (colleague) do demonstrations. He did one in the centre of Manchester once.

It looks cool as hell, but I'd probably die if I tried to do it.

Other than that I don't think anyone wants to answer you...

**Arbiter** · Apr 15th, 2002, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by Ianpbaker
you do the okie - dokey and you all fall down ????? am I on the right track here ?

Yes Ian, that's right. Spot on mate.....

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