The Falkland Islands?

[simonm]

Should the Falkland Islands just be handed over to Argentina?

Is Britain just clinging to the last remnants of it's empire?

[RSINGH]

Why not let the Falklanders decide. Especially as they'll be the ones most affected.

[beachbum]

Submerge it and turn it into a dugong sanctuary

[Mark Sreeves]

Originally posted by RSINGH
Why not let the Falklanders decide. Especially as they'll be the ones most affected.

What difference does that make?
The folk of Gibraltar aren't getting much of a say at the moment are they?

[MerrionComputin]

Too cold for Dugong - perhaps return it to the penguins?

I think that if any piece of land is contested between two countries it should be made non-country and all people have to leave it..thus war would profit neither side and would be less common.

[RSINGH]

That's my point. They should have a say. I think its wrong to take countries, and then dispose of them when you're bored or have taken what you wanted from them.

[simonm]

I think that if any piece of land is contested between two countries it should be made non-country and all people have to leave it..thus war would profit neither side and would be less common.

If that was the case, most of the world's surface would be empty of human habitation...which might be a good thing.

[HarryW]

Like Ranj said, let the residents decide.

[InvisibleDuncan]

Originally posted by RSINGH
That's my point. They should have a say.

What do you think this is - a democracy?

[RSINGH]

Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan
What do you think this is - a democracy?

If you'd started your sentence with 'shaddap', I'd probably have mistaken you for Kovan

[InvisibleDuncan]

Originally posted by RSINGH
If you'd started your sentence with 'shaddap', I'd probably have mistaken you for Kovan

That's a bit harsh!

[RSINGH]

If you'd have ended your sentence with "**** ****", I'd have mistaken you for GR!

[InvisibleDuncan]

I'd also have needed to include "LOL" and "im ugly an' i no u all hate me".

[RSINGH]

Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan
I'd also have needed to include "LOL" and "im ugly an' i no u all hate me".

Ha Ha, too true.
If you'd have replied with

"Radishes are getting restless", I'd have thought you were Bonker.

Go on, do another impression of someone.

[InvisibleDuncan]

STFU j00 n00b

I'm not gay.

[RSINGH]

Ah, has to be tennis boy. OK, try this one then.

Crap

That never happened. Like anyone cares what you say anyway.

According to
my
source
which
you have to read in the
Original arabic.

[InvisibleDuncan]

...and that would be Kovan.

Try this:

I dont s'pell like Im' brittish.

[RSINGH]

Gotta be Big Gay Ian. What was this thread about again??

[InvisibleDuncan]

Define "what".


Oh, sorry... got carried away there. This thread is about whether we should abandon a a group of British people who want to remain British just because some people are embarrassed that we have territories more than fifteen miles off our mainland.

[chrisjk]

There seems to be this curious patriotism and devotion to the monarchy in these little places. The Falklands, St Helens (Helena, Helen, something like that), Gibralter; pictures of the Queen everywhere and Union jacks about the place much more than here.

They're almost more British than us.

[InvisibleDuncan]

That's because we can take it for granted. It's unlikely anyone's going to tell us that we don't have any right to be British...

[Wally Pipp]

Don't forget wossname (Asturia ? err ... Austria ? mmmm no, Australasia ? Something like that anyway ...) !

[simonm]

I've heard that Argentina claimed the Falkland islands for themselves after the British colonists had abandonned it years earlier. Once Britain heard that Argentina had done, we went back down there and kicked them out again. That's why they're so convinced that they have a right to those islands.

[Juan Carlos Rey]

I've heard that Argentina claimed the Falkland islands for themselves after the British colonists had abandonned it years earlier

Argentina took the islands short after our independence, in 1816, following Spanish rule on them.

England took over in 1835 and never gave them back, despict continuous claim before UN etc.

[Jethro]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Don't forget wossname (Asturia ? err ... Austria ? mmmm no, Australasia ? Something like that anyway ...) !

Your trying to think of Canada........

[cafeenman]

I'm thinking about changing my name from CafeenMan to CaveMan.

When the people want it badly enough they'll take it themselves.

[Kzin]

Originally posted by Juan Carlos Rey


Argentina took the islands short after our independence, in 1816, following Spanish rule on them.

England took over in 1835 and never gave them back, despict continuous claim before UN etc.

So Spain has a terratorial claim on your country and the Falklands that is older than yours. And each is now ruled according to the wishes of the people living there rather than by a foriegn power.

By prescedence the British claim goes back to Sir Richard Hawkins who claimed the islands in 1593

Here is a quote - presumably someone from another country will claim that its all lies and their ancestors got their two days after creation in stone canoes [I'm thinking of the silly one-upmanship the chinese, koreans and Japanese seem to get into about who is the "senior" power in their region and who should be subservient] - so I think that the best way to determine who owns/runs a country are its own citizens rather than an imperial claimant.

'Discovery' of the Falkland Islands
by Sir Richard Hawkins
Narrated in his own words
This extract of the narrative of Sir Richard Hawkins follows the wording of his voyage as published in "Purchas his Pilgrimes" in 1622

. . . . In the end of the yeere 1588, returning from the journey against the Spanish Armardo, I caused a Ship to be builded in the River of Thames, betwixt three and foure hundred tunnes, which was finished in that perfection as could be required. For she was pleasing to the eye, profitable for stowage, good of sayle, and well conditioned. On the day of her launching, shee was named, The Repentance.

The Repentance being put in perfection, and riding at Detford, the Queens Majestie passing by her, to her palace of Greenwich, commanded her Barge-men to rowe round her, and viewing her from Poste to Stemme, disliked nothing but her name, and said shee would bee called the Daintie; which name shee brooked as well for her proportion and grace, as for many happie Voyages she made in her Majesties services:

The eight of April, 1593, I caused the Pilot to set sayle from Black-wall, and to vaile downe to Gravesend, whither that night I proposed to come.

The 18th of December we set sayle1 the winde at North-East and directed our course for the straits of Magelianes.

In out Navigation towards the straits, by our observation wee found that our compasse varied a point better to the Eastwards.

In the height of the River of Plate, we being some fiftie leagues off the coast, a storme tooke us Southerly, which endured fortie eight houres:

The storme ceasing, and being out of all hope, wee set saile and went on our course . . . . . . .

The wind continued good with us, till we came to 49° and 30' where it took us Westerly, being (as we made our account) some fiftie leagues from the shoare. Betwixt 49. and 48. degrees is Port Saint Julian, a good Harbour, and in which a man may grave his shippe, though shee draw fifteene or sixteene foot water: But care is to bee had of the people called Patagones, They are treacherous, and of great stature, most give them the name of Giants.

The second of February, about nine of the clock in the morning, wee descried land, which bare South-West of us, which we looked not for so timely! and cumming neerer and neerer unto it, by lying, we could not conjecture what land it should be, for we were next of anything in 48 degrees, and no Plat nor Sea-card which we had, made mention of any land, which lay in that manner, neere about that height; In fine wee brought our Lar-boord tackle aboord, and stood to the North eastwards all that day and night, and the winde continuing Westerly and a faire gale, we continued our course alongst the Coast the day and night following. In which time we made account we discovered well neere three-score of leagues off the Coast. It is bold, and made small shew of dangers. The land is a goodly Champion Countrey, and peopled: wee saw many fires2, but could not come to speake with the people; for the time of yeere was farre spent to shoote the Straits, and the want of our Pinnasse disabled us for finding a Port or Road; not being discretion with a ship of charge, and in an unknown coast, to come neere the shoare before it was sounded; which were causes, together with the change of winde (good for us to passe the Strait) that hindered further discovery of this Land, with its secrets: This I have sorrowed for many times for that it had likelihood to be an excellent Countrey. It hath great Rivers of fresh waters: for the out-shoot of them coloures the Sea in many places, as we ranne alongst it. It is not Mountaynous, but much of the disposition of England, and as temperate. The things we noted principally on the Coast are these following: the Westermost point of the Land, with which wee first fell, is the end of the land to the Westwards3, as wee found afterwards. If a man bring this point South-West, it riseth in three Mounts or round Hillockes: bringing more Westerly, they shoot themselves all into one; and bringing it Easterly , it riseth two Hillockes. This we called Point Tremountaine. Some twelve or fourteene leagues from this point to the Eastwards faire by the shoare, lyeth a low flat Iland4 of some two leagues long; we named it Faire Iland; for it was all over greene and smooth, as any Meddow in the Spring of the yeare.

Some three or foure leagues Easterly from this Iland, is a goodly opening5, as of a great River, or an arme of the Sea, with a goodly low Countrey adjacent. And eight or tenne leagues from this opening, some three leagues from the shore, lyeth a bigge Rocke, which at first we had thought to be a ship under all her sayles6; but after, as we came neere, it discovered it selfe to bee a Rocke, which we called Conduit head; for that howsoever a man commeth with it, it is like the Conduit-heads about the Citie of London. All this coast so farre as we discovered lyeth next of anything East and by North, and West and by South. The Land for it was discovered, in the Reigne of Queen Elizabeth, my Sovereign Lady and Mistris, and a Mayden Queene, and at my cost and adventure, in a perpetuall memory of her chastitie, and remembrance of my endeavours, I gave it the name of Hawkins Maiden Land. Before a man fall with this land, some Twenty or Thirty leagues, he shall meet with beds of Oreweed driving to and fro in the Sea, with white flowers growing upon them, and sometimes farther off; which is a good shew and sign the Land is neere, whereof the Westermost part lyeth some three score leagues from the neerest land of America

With our faire and large wind wee shaped our course for the straits, & the 10th of February wee had sight of Land, and it was the head-land of the Straits to the Northwards, which agreed with our height, wherein wee found our selves to bee, which was 52 degrees and 40 minutes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 This was from Isla Grande just about 20 miles South-West of Rio de Janeiro.

2 The land was not peopled but fires can be started by natural causes and often burn, in the peat, for a very long time, even years, this is probably what they saw. The land in those days had much more vegetation around the coast therefore providing more fuel than exists today

3 This would have been the what we now know as the Jason Islands. Their distance off shore (they would have been very cautious and as mentioned "not being discretion with a ship of charge" would have kept some distance off) would make it difficult to see that they were separate islands

4 This would have been Pebble Island, it's not exactly flat but in those days would have been covered with Tussac grass making it appear "greene and smooth". It should also be noted that in the late 1500's any telescope that they had would have been rudimentary

5 This would have been the North opening of Falkland Sound

6 This is the rock now Known as the "Eddystone Rock". Hawkins would not be the first to describe it's appearance as that of a ship under full sail.