I'm not going to argue about religion anymore.

[simonm]

I had, in the past, came to the same conclusion but comming on these forums, with so many new people to argue with, I got carried away with myself.

Basically, an attitude in some religous that I despise; namely that they believe what's right for them must also be right for everyone else (they just don't know it yet), I see in myself when I argue about religion.

Why, just because it doesn't work for me, should I attempt to disuade people from their beliefs if, for them, it obviously does work?

Now, I'm sure that my arguments had little effect on those already convinced of their, contrary, beliefs but hey, it's the principle.

[HarryW]

You have principles? I just disagree with people because I'm downright disagreeable

[Tygur]

The general idea with religions is that these beliefs are facts for the people believing them. So the concept of one set of beliefs "working" for one person and another set of beliefs "working" for someone else doesn't really hold up. Someone is right, whether it's the atheists, agnostics, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, or whoever. Only one group is truly right. Either there is a God or there isn't.

Everyone, with the possible exception of the agnostics, believes that they are the right one and all the other religious groups are wrong. So each one has to convince the others of what they believe to be the truth, especially in the case of such extreme teachings as a hell.

If someone was about to walk off the edge of a tall cliff and didn't know it (maybe it was foggy or something), would you just let him do it, figuring that his belief that the cliff wasn't there was "working" for him? Or would you try to convince him that he would die if he kept going?

That's why these religious discussions keep on going. They aren't pointless at all.

[DerFarm]

Arguing theology (Anybody's theology) is fun, intellectually
stimulating, and ultimately can lead to insights into the thinking
patterns of the people involved....but you have to accept the
basic principles of the religion whose theology you are
discussing. Kind of a willing suspension of disbelief in religion.

Arguing religion is easy: I'm right, your wrong, shut up, die and
goto my version of hell.

[simonm]

Tygur

Well, whilst trying my best not to break the promise I just made, I disagree.

Someone is right, whether it's the atheists, agnostics, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, or whoever. Only one group is truly right. Either there is a God or there isn't.

Well, perhaps there is only one underlying truth but that doesn't necessarilly mean that believing it will make you happier.

For example, although I am an athiest and consequantly do not believe in god, it doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't. Even if they are deluding themselves, if it makes them happier and gets them through life, does it really matter?

Now, I can understand that why, if there is a god (that exists according to christian doctrine), those who do not believe in him are liable to we worse off, in the long term, than those that do believe. However, it is not that attidute that annoys me about religous people.

It is the attidude that you can only be truly happy if you believe in my idea of God. Even if God was the only thing that made them happy (and I doubt they tried everything) then it still does not necessarilly follow that it will be the only thing that makes others happy. Some people, be it true or not, just don't need it to be happy.

What basis do we have to assume that knowing the truth will make us happier? Ever heard of the saying, "Ignorance is Bliss"?

[HarryW]

It's not about happiness though, is it? For you, as an atheist, maybe it is. For someone who believes in a final judgement and consequences thereof, though, it's about truth.

[simonm]

It's not about happiness though, is it? For you, as an atheist, maybe it is. For someone who believes in a final judgement and consequences thereof, though, it's about truth.

Well it is for a lot of Christians. I have heard them argue the benefits of christianity on both truth and happiness grounds. i.e. They do more than merely assert the truth of what they say, they declare that it is the only true path to happiness.

They say that all humans are designed to only be happy when close to god. That we have a "god" shaped hole in soul when we do not have a relationship with God.

Besides, even as far as the "Truth" part is concerned, my point still stands. If someone is happier believing in their own version of the truth, why do they need to be "educated"?

[simonm]

Originally Posted by Tygur
That's why these religious discussions keep on going. They aren't pointless at all.

I don't really believe that is the reason why people keep on arguing.

People argue becasue they like confirmation. We seek corroboration of our existing beleif system and convincing others of the "truth" of our beliefs goes some way to achieve this.

Anyway, I'm not telling everyone else they shouldn't argue about religion. I'm just saying that I feel bad about trying to strip away the beliefs of others, beliefs that they rely on for their personal happiness.