Kovan, another Islamic arguement thread

Jethro · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:25 AM

Anyone answering can we keep it under control, ppl have different beliefs than yours, and even if they suck big time give the other person some respect.

ok on with the show.

In Catholic religon there's this lame argument.

God knows everything that is going to happen, but you still have free will and can make your own mind up.

Hello...if god knows everything that is going to happen, then your choices are pre-ordained, and thus you don't have free will.

What's the koran's take on this arguement.

**rjlohan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:31 AM

I don't think that's exactly how the Catholic religion puts it. I gather the idea is really just to prove yourself through actions, to see if you can get to Heaven.

Which seems to me like God is a big fat masochist. Why keep whipping out humans just to see who's fit for heaven?

**kovan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by Jethro
Anyone answering can we keep it under control, ppl have different beliefs than yours, and even if they suck big time give the other person some respect.

ok on with the show.

In Catholic religon there's this lame argument.

God knows everything that is going to happen, but you still have free will and can make your own mind up.

Hello...if god knows everything that is going to happen, then your choices are pre-ordained, and thus you don't have free will.

What's the koran's take on this arguement.

its almost 4 am here..
so am gonna swing this one

God knows everything yes...
according to Qur'an some things are pre-destined, meaning you dont have control over (mostly things that dont have do to with individuals but things that effect more than one, like weather, day and night and so on)
i never really have digged this topic yet, but i have kinda scratched the surface, if you want an answer with references and so on, i will have to do some research cus i dont know squat of top of my head

, well other than what i just told ya

**rjlohan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by kovan

its almost 4 am here..
so am gonna swing this one

God knows everything yes...
according to Qur'an some things are pre-destined, meaning you dont have control over (mostly things that dont have do to with individuals but things that effect more than one, like weather, day and night and so on)
i never really have digged this topic yet, but i have kinda scratched the surface, if you want an answer with references and so on, i will have to do some research cus i dont know squat of top of my head , well other than what i just told ya

Right, this has gone on long enough - time for some inflammatory material. If God's so smart, then let's see him find my keys.

**kovan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:46 AM

shoving them up your arse is kinda sick, no one would wanna look there

**rjlohan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:49 AM

Well, where was god when I prayed for regular sexual perversions, hmmmm?
Where was he then?

Jethro · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:50 AM

rj

Nope Jesuit teaching is that god knows everything that has happened and will happen to the nth degree. But we still have free will???? If god knows everything that is to happen, ergo we have no free will cause it is already predetermined that we will make a particular choice in any given situation.

kovan

Just interested, don't sweat it if you don't have the time, just interested in another religon's take on this.

Some sects of christianity argue that everything is pre-determined therefore your actions are not relevant to your holiness...kind of sucks if you ask me, but am interested in hearing some defense of this

As stated cause this is a religon thread everyone show respect to others beliefs, you may not agree with them but don't diss the person who holds them.

PS

In the Catholic religon you have a great escape clause, just say you regret everything on your death bed, thats why Catholics don't bother with this church carry on. Just get a priest on your death bed, of course if your run over by a bus then your rooted.

**kovan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:51 AM

back to the topic...

Islamic References on Divine Will
there is Faith in Islam.. which has 6 pillars
one of the 6 Pillars of Faith is to believe in Divine Will
and the following is a whole "Book" from authentic Islamic Source dedicated to Divine Will
...

http://www.quraan.com/Bukhari/77.asp

**rjlohan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:53 AM

Yeah, well, when Hollingworth is cashing in his Get Out Of Jail Free card, I hope god kicks him in the nuts and sends him packing.

**kovan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Jethro
rj

Nope Jesuit teaching is that god knows everything that has happened and will happen to the nth degree. But we still have free will???? If god knows everything that is to happen, ergo we have no free will cause it is already predetermined that we will make a particular choice in any given situation.

kovan

Just interested, don't sweat it if you don't have the time, just interested in another religon's take on this.

Some sects of christianity argue that everything is pre-determined therefore your actions are not relevant to your holiness...kind of sucks if you ask me, but am interested in hearing some defense of this

As stated cause this is a religon thread everyone show respect to others beliefs, you may not agree with them but don't diss the person who holds them.

PS

In the Catholic religon you have a great escape clause, just say you regret everything on your death bed, thats why Catholics don't bother with this church carry on. Just get a priest on your death bed, of course if your run over by a bus then your rooted.

well if everything is pre-determined, then no point of being religious or not...
in Islam most of the actions an individual takes are a result of their deeds (good or bad)
but things like birth, death.. are not control by the individual but by God...

Jethro · Feb 17th, 2002, 04:09 AM

Ah so in Islam there is free will, except for the really major things

like who you support in the grnd final...

rj

Hollingworth is not catholic therefore will burn in the fires of hell for all eternity. That and being appointed by Howard.

**kedaman** · Feb 17th, 2002, 04:21 AM

what does this have to do with control´´?

**beachbum** · Feb 17th, 2002, 04:27 AM

I am so tempted to expose you Jello.. lol but u seem to be having fun fishing..

Jethro · Feb 17th, 2002, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by kedaman
what does this have to do with control´´?

Please explain..(the Pauline Hanson quotes are still the best).

BB

You expose yourself outside the local catholic girls secondary school enough for all of us

As stated this is not meant to diss anyone's thoughts, unless of course we are talking about the Finland racing sardine industry

**kedaman** · Feb 17th, 2002, 04:52 AM

just spotting something ironic, you insisted we keep this under control

Tygur · Feb 17th, 2002, 08:14 AM

I believe your thinking is a little flawed. There is a big difference between knowing something and actually making it happen.

How can advance knowledge of some decision you will make in the future possibly free you from the responsibility for having made it? In other words, if God knows you will choose to eat vanilla ice cream tomorrow, how does that indicate that you won't actually choose to have that ice cream?

**JungleMan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 08:37 AM

Maybe God knows the choices you are going to make.

**kovan** · Feb 17th, 2002, 02:24 PM

Jethro, did all your questions get answered?

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