Which are the good compilers for writing Java applications?

[Cudabean]

There's really only one Java Compiler and it's available from http://java.sun.com and the latest is called java standard development 1.3 or jdk 1.3.

I think Microsoft also made a compiler called j++.

Now as far as IDEs (Interractive Development Environments) there are a lot out there, but I think they all rely on sun's compiler, so choosing an IDE becomes more a matter of ergonomics, aesthetics and having automated code generation features.

As far as choosing an IDE, that question has been asked here in this forum fairly recently.

cudabean

[bona]

Thanks, Cudabean.

I actually meant the IDE for writing Java applications. As far as I know there are quite a few ones: JBuilder, Visual Cafe, Forte for Java, PowerJ, CodeWarrior ...

I used to work with JBuilder 3 Standard, but it wasn't too convenient. Might be in the latest versions the Borland improved it.
So from all those Integrated Development Environment programs should be some more convenient and relaible than the others.

[filburt1]

I've heard good things about the freebies JCreator.

[DaoK]

I used to work with JBuilder 3 Standard, but it wasn't too convenient.

I have that version ( educational one ) and all work well ? What it does not do ?

[filburt1]

If you have JBuilder 3 and didn't like it, do not get 4 or 5. Versions 3.5 and up are written, ironically enough, in Java, and is incredibly slow. Also at work I find it to be really buggy. The only reason I use it is for the code popups and a built-in Swing designer.

[bona]

Briefly my opinion about JBuilder 3 Standard: quite slow (for instance at the same computer Borland C++ Builder 4 run reasonably well). And I agree with filburt1 that the JBuilder 3 has some buggs.

[BS]

Try Oracle9i jDeveloper, The best I hav seen, and it free

[bona]

I think I will try this Oracle 9i JDeveloper.
And how about Forte for Java? How good is it?

[Dillinger4]

FORTE is pretty good feature wise but the IDE runs to dam slow. They recomend 128Mb of ram but i don't see how the extra memory would speed it up that much.

[DaoK]

I got tree time bug with Jbuilder3 and it was that the program close it self without warning... grrr but for the rest all is ok.

[bona]

I reckon that PIII 900 MHz and 384 Mb RAM should be enough for JForte.

[Dillinger4]

Perhaps. They recomend 128Mb ram minimum. I tried running it with a PII 450Mhz 64Mb ram and just to get it up and running took way too long. I think the main reason is that it is developed in Java. It's a nice thought but id rather have an IDE that is coded in somthing a little bit faster like C++ with Assembly in places.

[kleptos]

Forte is based off the original framework called Netbeans and it loads faster then Forte, the reason Forte takes 4-ever to load is that it loads tons of modules like apache and tomcat modules, most of which you probably dont need, Netbeans is faster, they look and work almost identical, but without all the backend loading like Forte.

[CaptainPinko]

the minimum requirements for Forte are 128 ram (256 recommended) and at least 450 mHz. I have 1.2 gHz w/ 256 RAM and Forte is the best IDE i've ever used, most stable and only takes like 30 secs to load, try it, love it, live it

tho to learn Java "Ready to Program" works well enough, its j1.1 but thats enough till you get the hang of things

[kleptos]

I have used Forte, and it is te best i have used also, but for some reason, i have this liking for JBuilder as well. JBuilder has its good points and bad points, but i like it. But i do agree 100%, Forte is the best.

[Fool]

I love JBuilder. I use JBuilder 6 Enterprise at work and personal at home. In my class' Java book they give us JBuilder 3 but I'll just use JBuilder 6. Personally, on my workstations JBuilder doesn't run slow at all.

[kleptos]

I use JBuilder on my laptop and at home and it is very fast, i use it when im not at work, there we use Forte. I like JBuilder in its own way.,

[CaptainPinko]

i just want to say that i d/l-ed NetBeans and its a lot faster than Forte, w/ pretty much the same functionality and a lot faster, tho it stills loads some Tomcat server but oh well. I just want to recommend to anyone. The great thing is that I can use it on my MacTop w/ having to used to another IDE (boy do i hate switching IDEs).

[billrogers]

You really dont need an ide, if you know java you can program faster without them in most cases.

Just get the jdk and you will be set.

I have used a bunch of them Forte, Visual J++, JBuilder, and Visual Cafe. They are never a replacement for just being familiar with the language and whipping it out on your own, unless you want to code in a language like VB.

[bona]

But how about debugging?
To watch variables values, setting breackpoints, etc. This is reallly important aspect in writing applications.
I think this is the main advantage for using IDE.

[billrogers]

I never really use a debugger too much. They can be helpful, but most cases they just show you something you should have caught before, and the debugger isnt showing you something that you could not get.

I use line compilers for almost everything I do. java, Visual C++. But that is just my style. The less you use an ide the stronger of a programmer you will be.

[Dillinger4]

I never really use a debugger too much either. I do like working with an IDE though so at least i can see if my brackets have a matching } that goes with {.

[billrogers]

Yeah but that is really just what any good editor will do, and those are plentiful. Some that are popular are xemacs, source insight, etc. etc. etc.

IDE just eat up too much time when you really know the code, or how to code, i should say.

[Dillinger4]

Now that were on the topic of IDE's and compilers. Does anyone know of Java compilers that compile into native code instead of platform independent byte code? I heard of "BulletTrain" back when my friend was using JPython. Are there such compilers? This would sound like a good idea for people wanting to code games in Java but want the speed of a compiled code instead if interpreted byte code.

[CaptainPinko]

billrogers:
not using a compler doesn't mean you're a good coder but that you are a pedantic coder...

a good programmer doesn't need to even know a language as its all about algorithim....



dilenger4:
doesn't the Java HotSpot sort of do that by pre-compiling alot of commonly used classes into native code neway?

or you could just translate it into C++ which i hear is similar enough

[BS]

You can find jPython on this site
http://www.jython.org/

[wey97]

Originally posted by bona
Which compilers are really good for writing all kind of Java programs (desktop applications, applets, JSP, servlets ...). Something like JBuilder Enterprise?

If you want to have a program that opens fast (unlike Forte or JBuilder),
try TextPad or pcGrasp. All you have to do is setup the path to javac.exe
and java.exe. pcGrasp auto-formats brackets and indentions for you.
HOWEVER, these do not have auto-complete and do not have MANY of the
advanced features of the larger IDE's.

I am writing my own IDE in Visual Basic and I have a few questions:

How can I bring in the compiler messages from the console to a window in
my application? Also, when I run the program, if I just Shell java.exe to run
the class file, the window disappears after the program is finished. How can
I either bring a console window into my app or have a message "Press any
key to continue." and then close the console window?

Thanks

[Ahriman]

I have JBuilder, Forte and JCreator and my favorit IDE by far is JCreator.

As for compilers, i hate Sun's complier. It gives very horrible error messages. Jikes is the best complier for java. It gives you errors in plain english. This is what i do, I rename jikes.exe to javac.exe and put it in my jdk\bin dir. This way, my IDE is tricked into using Jikes instead of javac. It works like a charm. Jikes is faster than javac too.

I have used a java native complier called Excelsior JET.http://www.excelsior-usa.com/jet.html
If you want a GUI for it, you have to download it separately. The free version only lets you make .exe files that will work on computers with JET installed. If you want to distribuite your program, you have to by a copy.

[billrogers]

I disagree Captain Pinko.

quote from Pinko:

not using a compler doesn't mean you're a good coder but that you are a pedantic coder...

a good programmer doesn't need to even know a language as its all about algorithim....

Just a couple things, you should really come to know and learn,
1) Every programmer needs to use a compiler, if you do not I really would like to meet you, for everything uses one, unless you go down to machine language. I said a good programmer does not need to use an IDE. For instance, Forte, VisualCafe, Visual J++, etc. Yes you are correct that if you dont use an IDE that you need to pay more attention to more details, but you should anyways.

2) An algorithm is just that an algorithm, you need to know nothing of programming to know how to develop a good algorithm. And most people that do develop the most commonly held algorthims are not programmers but mathematicians. And I am not taking algorthim in the sense that hey looked I wrote a program that takes a name and prints it to the screen for that could be consider an algorithm, but you and I know it really is a weak one. An algorithm is one like quick sort, bubble sort, merge sort, quickest route, point detection, etc etc etc. A programmer needs to know how to take an algorithm and to put that into code. That is what a programmer does.

3) A programmer needs to know languages for that is what their job entails. To write programs, if you want to talk about being on the higher level of design then fine lets talk about that but stay on the same subject. A good programmer can easily pick up another language, for they all have the same basics.

Anyone, please feel free to respond on what you think.

[MethadoneBoy]

I think what Captain Pinko is trying to say is that the main theory behind programming is that of the algorithm. Once you can write a program in pseudo-code, whatever language you learn should come naturally.

No good trying to program whn you haven't an idea what you're doing

I use J++ mostly. I've never really used it to create Forms or anything, but it's really well laid out - ideal for anyone still familiarising themselves with Java.

How does J++ compare with JBuilder and Forte?

[Dillinger4]

All i can say is that bill is correct when he says "you need to know nothing of programming to know how to develop a good algorithm." One of my friends that i grew up with went to MIT and most but not all of the people he knew that write algorithms are just good at math.

Also and i think that bill would agree with me here is that alot of it comes down to program structure. Learning how to structure a program so one dosen't need to scrap a project multiple times. I would often just sit down and start to code with out looking and how everything should go togther leading to a lot of wasted time and patience

[billrogers]

I agree and disagree with you Methadoneboy. Yes programming does entail using algorithms, but dont confuse writing an algorithm with design and structure of a program. Although like i said before knowing algorithm's does not entitled\ you to be a programmer, you have to know a language (not according to captain's belief). I can take an algorithm to find the shortest route, and I can give it to my brother who has an masters in math, and he can tell me what it does... can he program it?? No. Algorithms does not equal programming. Algorithms are A step-by-step problem-solving procedure, especially an established, recursive computational procedure for solving a problem in a finite number of steps. They tie in very nicely with programming but they are not the same thing, simply a tool, a step by step procedure to achieve results.

Dilenger is also right good design and structure are needed. An algorithm does not equal design and structure.

[MethadoneBoy]

I didn't say it did

What I'm trying to say is that the algorithm is the basic idea behind programming. All programs come from that idea.

This has nothing to do with design structure - that comes later, once you know what you have to do.

you have to know a language (not according to captain's belief). I can take an algorithm to find the shortest route, and I can give it to my brother who has an masters in math, and he can tell me what it does... can he program it?? No

I don't mean to say that you can program without learning a language - that's obvious. Think of it this way. Say you have a French presentation to make. You don't know what you want to say, but someone has just handed you an entire speech in perfect French that you can use. You read it out, everyone listens, but you have no idea what you're actually saying - it's all gibberish to you. Then after the speech, someone asks you a question in French - you're in trouble.

On the other hand, let's say you have a limited grasp of French but know a few words. By using the vocabulary in the prompt cards you have prepared and by relying on your own knowledge, you will convey much better to the audience what it is you're presenting.

You'll be able to handle most questions.

[billrogers]

Hmm, not sure I totally get or agree with the french thing. I can give you an algorithm to sort numbers, say using quick sort. That is well know algorithm widely used. But if I write that in MASM, and give it to you, and say oh you know the algorithm you should be able to explain it, you would be clueless. Now if you wanted to just simply discuss the algorithm, that would be easy for it would be in nice pseudo-code written in english or french in your case that a non-programmer could understand. For that is the point of the algorithm.

[MethadoneBoy]

I'm not saying that you can be a programmer without knowing a language. What I mean is, it is essential to understand the concept behind using algorithms in programming. No matter what language you're writing in, an algorithm allows you to say, "OK, I've done that bit, now I have to move on to this bit"

Understand?

[billrogers]

i think that all programmer would hopefully follow that rule.

i think we took over this thread.

[MethadoneBoy]

Most definitely

What do you think is a better compiler: J++, JBuilder or Forte?

[billrogers]

I havent used JBuilder at all, so I cant give any info on that.

Forte is just too slow, long load times. Just not quite as fast as it should be.

J++ is ok, although who knows what support is like for it.

I find IDE's just to be to cumbersome for me. I can whip out a gui on my own in far less time than it takes me with an IDE. But I can definately see why one would want to use one. Drag n Drop guis are quite nice sometimes, as long as they do not get too complex. Then ya can run into some gui problems.

If I had to pick one to use I would probably pick VisualCafe, but that is probably a little pricey for most.

[MethadoneBoy]

I haven't used J++ too extensively, but I like its facilities for debugging and the Drop 'n' Drag GUI option is pretty good.

JBuilder is very much like J++ although I have no idea what their running times are.