USA vs USA vs World (non delete thread)

[sapator]

No delete BS here.

So https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-say...113131037.html

Trump says Biden’s pardons are now ‘void and vacant’ after autopen controversy

If that is true then we are in for a treat. Also seen a lot of pawn stars episodes , autopen can be proven in a jiffy then this seems more true than ever before: “The person who was the real President during the Biden years was the person who controlled the Autopen!”

[Shaggy Hiker]

It's just another attack on the legal system. Trump can say what he wants, but there is no legal basis for those claims. The president has pretty much unfettered ability to grant pardons. The Constitution of the US doesn't say a whole lot about how they have to be signed, or if they have to be signed, or possibly if they even have to be written down. There is some evidence that Lincoln issued at least one pardon verbally, and that makes a whole lot of sense considering when the Constitution was written.

On the other hand, Trump said he would investigate people who had been given pardons. I doubt that violates any law written or implied. He can investigate whoever he wants to, and in whatever detail, what he can't do is charge them with a crime for what they have already been pardoned for, which he doesn't claim to be doing. If he did that, it could sort of amount to a constitutional crisis, but probably not. The court would dismiss the charges. If that was the end of it, then no crisis.

This is just more of Trump trying to silence critics by attacking anybody who speaks up. One more play from the fascist playbook.

[TysonLPrice]

It's just another attack on the legal system. Trump can say what he wants, but there is no legal basis for those claims. The president has pretty much unfettered ability to grant pardons. The Constitution of the US doesn't say a whole lot about how they have to be signed, or if they have to be signed, or possibly if they even have to be written down. There is some evidence that Lincoln issued at least one pardon verbally, and that makes a whole lot of sense considering when the Constitution was written.

On the other hand, Trump said he would investigate people who had been given pardons. I doubt that violates any law written or implied. He can investigate whoever he wants to, and in whatever detail, what he can't do is charge them with a crime for what they have already been pardoned for, which he doesn't claim to be doing. If he did that, it could sort of amount to a constitutional crisis, but probably not. The court would dismiss the charges. If that was the end of it, then no crisis.

This is just more of Trump trying to silence critics by attacking anybody who speaks up. One more play from the fascist playbook.

Just a couple of months into this...the man is unhinged and a threat to the world. I wonder how many people will die and suffer needlessly because of him shutting down UASAID We are a plane ride away from another pandemic and he is shutting down or gutting the agencies that protect us.

[FunkyDexter]

I understand the concern from those on the right because of the allegations that Biden was essentially an empty vessel the last year or two of his presidency. It's hard to deny his mental decline, particularly a year before the end of his presidency and so it's logical to think "who's really in control".

On the other hand, I think the "autopen controversy" is just a naked power play. I bet if you asked Republicans and Democrats prior to this news about their opinions on presidents using autopens to endorse paperwork, it'd probably range to the majority of people saying "I don't care" to a slighter minority saying "it makes me queasy, but whatever" to a small minority taking the stance that MAGA folks are taking today with the "it undermines the entire system".

Both of those paragraphs pretty much align with my thinking.

I don't believe Biden was an empty vessel but I can understand the concern. I kinda put this in the same category as Trump being a Russian asset: I don't believe it but I can see how the optics can lead to that conclusion.

As for Autopen being illegitimate, does anyone believe that Trump manually signed over 1,500 pardons for the Jan 6th insurrectionists? Nah, thought not.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I believe it. I think Trump likes nothing better than to see his name. He probably spends his days writing his name over and over and people just put papers under the pen.

Back before his first election, one Republican operative (I forget who, but it could probably be looked up pretty quickly if anybody cares) stated that they didn't care who got elected as long as they could sign.

[Steve R Jones]

Trump said it's possible that Biden didn't sign them and that someone else might have... So Biden might not even know about it?!?!?!??

Then....the very next day Biden made a speech about the pardons.... That killed Trumps idea....but he's too stupid to realize that

[TysonLPrice]

I understand the concern from those on the right because of the allegations that Biden was essentially an empty vessel the last year or two of his presidency. It's hard to deny his mental decline, particularly a year before the end of his presidency and so it's logical to think "who's really in control".

On the other hand, I think the "autopen controversy" is just a naked power play. I bet if you asked Republicans and Democrats prior to this news about their opinions on presidents using autopens to endorse paperwork, it'd probably range to the majority of people saying "I don't care" to a slighter minority saying "it makes me queasy, but whatever" to a small minority taking the stance that MAGA folks are taking today with the "it undermines the entire system".

"who's really in control"? You could have asked that in Regan's last years and the answer would have been Nancy. For Trump the answer is Fox news.

[FunkyDexter]

Didn't Trump declare he could just "think" a pardon into existence? I remember him saying he could think something into existence but it might not have been pardons. (There's so much mad-hattery that it's easy to get confused)

Edit> Remembered just after posting - he declared he could think a document unclassified.

[Steve R Jones]

Yes to the Docs.... Course, now that he's the Pres - he has all of the same boxes back in Florida.

[TysonLPrice]

Yes to the Docs.... Course, now that he's the Pres - he has all of the same boxes back in Florida.

And fired the folks that prosecuted the case.

[sapator]

Talking about documents:

Trump releases JFK assassination documents
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-rel...100502035.html

[FunkyDexter]

I don't really see what the fuss is about with the JFK files. Even if some conspiracy is found it was over half a century ago - what does anyone think is going to happen with that information.

Now the Epstein files, I do think there would be value in those regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on. He was close to both the Clintons and Trump. But, yeah, some content creators got given some already released phone records. Nothing suspicious about that.

[TysonLPrice]

I don't really see what the fuss is about with the JFK files. Even if some conspiracy is found it was over half a century ago - what does anyone think is going to happen with that information.

Now the Epstein files, I do think there would be value in those regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on. He was close to both the Clintons and Trump. But, yeah, some content creators got given some already released phone records. Nothing suspicious about that.

It is just more of Trump "performing" for his base, they lap it up.

[FunkyDexter]

it'd be cool to see what actually turns out to be legit.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it would be cool. But I get the vibe that a bunch of people think it's going to some political bombshell that'll bring down <insert political hate figure of choice>. It won't be that.

they could start an "Epstein Files" program

I'll put a bet on that Netflix are way ahead of you on that

[Shaggy Hiker]

Think about it, the term "conspiracy theory" entered into everyday language after Warren Commission concluded, some alleging that the CIA deliberately had the phrase popularized in an effort to discredit competing theories about JFK's assassination (which is ironic because then now the term "conspiracy theory" is itself a conspiracy theory on the popularization of its use in the US).

That's just a conspiracy theory that the term "conspiracy theory" is itself a conspiracy theory...okay, my fingers hurt from typing conspiracy theory. That's not an easy word to type, I think I'll just call it typewriter, since that word can be spelled using solely the top row.

As for the JFK file, I'd say that's a big ol' heaping plate of empty carbs. It will confirm and not confirm different theories. For those who find their theory confirmed, they'll say, "HA!!!" For those who do not find their theory confirmed, they'll say, "Cover Up!!!!" And the wheels will keep on rolling.