Post election prediction

[wes4dbt]

That article states that the $500 billion reference was removed, and "They removed all the clauses that did not suit us". So...what IS in this deal? It sounds like it is nothing more than a framework of a trade deal, considering that the details are stated to "remain to be worked out" and that the article makes it sound totally fuzzy.

Is this going to be another case where Trump gives away the house and claims it was a great deal?

Most likely, this will be written in such a mealy-mouthed way that both sides will claim that it does what they want, and it won't actually do anything because both sides have different understandings of what it does.

It does read like the only thing that happened was, they agreed to make some kind of deal.

But Trump will parade Zelensky out for some camera time and then claim victory.

Politics, it must suck to be Zelensky. Have to go on camera and shake the hand of the guy that just said you started the war and you were a dictator. I understand Zelensky doing it, he's fighting to stop a Russian invasion. Trump is doing it because he's Trump and exploiting people for personal gain is what he does.

[wes4dbt]

This is interesting and a very Trumpish thing to do. Sell US citizenship.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-gol...887f1fdb9eec13

It looks like Trump isn't against preferential treatment or immigration, as long as your rich.

I guess we need to change the Statue Of Liberty quote from

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"

to

"Give me your RICH, TELL your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free to STAY AWAY"

[sapator]

Sorry Shaggy did not read your post at it makes zero difference what was written rather on what will be done.
Is it written that US hard as a rock companies have taken soil in Ukraine, no? Will you ask where is your proof,yes, will I provide some, no? To get this fast out of the way.
The way I think Trump will bring peace to the galax..Err sorry in Ukraine will be, dollars, soil, and Russia close. I might disagree with the soil and dollars but there is no other way. Or you just want the war to continue so Trump can, "lose" ? This is an option for the small hearted I guess.
Also I stated what will probably happen in a a previous post waaay before the negotiation happened. So , that's a double pat for me. Pat pat.

[TysonLPrice]

This is interesting and a very Trumpish thing to do. Sell US citizenship.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-gol...887f1fdb9eec13

It looks like Trump isn't against preferential treatment or immigration, as long as your rich.

I guess we need to change the Statue Of Liberty quote from

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"

to

"Give me your RICH, TELL your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free to STAY AWAY"

And what is it...a month and a week

[Shaggy Hiker]

Sorry Shaggy did not read your post at it makes zero difference what was written rather on what will be done.
Is it written that US hard as a rock companies have taken soil in Ukraine, no? Will you ask where is your proof,yes, will I provide some, no? To get this fast out of the way.
The way I think Trump will bring peace to the galax..Err sorry in Ukraine will be, dollars, soil, and Russia close. I might disagree with the soil and dollars but there is no other way. Or you just want the war to continue so Trump can, "lose" ? This is an option for the small hearted I guess.
Also I stated what will probably happen in a a previous post waaay before the negotiation happened. So , that's a double pat for me. Pat pat.

Read the agreement. It's a giant nothing that gives away nothing, obligates Ukraine to at least help with rebuilding their country (though it doesn't take a lawyer to drive truck through the giant loophole in the statement), and obligates the US to nothing at all.

I agree that Trump will want soil, but that agreement doesn't offer any. The text is there, so don't bother arguing about what you THINK it will be, just read it. If you can find a clause that obligates the US to anything, or gives them anything, let me know which clause.

By the way, it isn't long.

[PlausiblyDamp]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/politics/g...an/ar-AA1zHPmi

The included video is well worth a watch, looks like some people aren't happy with getting what they want.

[Shaggy Hiker]

That's a long standing problem with rules: Once you try to nail down a subject, people find loopholes. The harder you try to define things, the more loopholes you create.

Being a moderator here, forced me to think more about how rules work. Up until that point, I thought it was easy, as most people expect. It isn't easy at all. For example, everybody likes free speech, but I believe that I can prove that truly free speech isn't even possible, especially on line. The proof is too long to write out, though.

[wes4dbt]

That's a long standing problem with rules: Once you try to nail down a subject, people find loopholes. The harder you try to define things, the more loopholes you create.

Being a moderator here, forced me to think more about how rules work. Up until that point, I thought it was easy, as most people expect. It isn't easy at all. For example, everybody likes free speech, but I believe that I can prove that truly free speech isn't even possible, especially on line. The proof is too long to write out, though.

Even if it's possible, I don't think I would want it. We humans can be pretty disgusting.

[TysonLPrice]

U.S. Terminates Funding for Polio, H.I.V., Malaria and Nutrition Programs Around the World

So much for the concept of "soft" power

[sapator]

OK.
This is for the train accident. The one that initially told there where some beers that exploded?
This is the biggest sht I've ever seen. Just got back , on the Macedonia is Greece protest there was 500k to 1mil and I was there, now we could not even get to the square as it was packed and all the streets near I live 20 minutes walk from the center and when we got out of my house there was a river going down to the square.
There must have been 2-3mil out plus 1 mil in all of Greece , so it's 3-4 /10 of all the country protest, do the math for your country.

https://www.lifo.gr/now/greece/sygke...ia-syntagmatos


I hope someone not post any sold out media article that talks about 50K people but who cares. The Tyran must fall get on trial and all of his fortune given to the Greece people all the other members of the killer government must get on trial!

[wes4dbt]

The Zelensky/Trump/Vance Oval office press conference was different.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/trum...e-meeting.html

Not sure what Zelensky thought would happen if he didn't bend the knee and kiss the ring. Trump has made it clear he want the war to stop and is willing to give large parts of Ukraine to Russia. Though why Trump thinks he has the right to give another countries land away to the invading country makes no sense.

It didn't seem like the right time for Zelensky to come here to meet with Trump. It's only been a few days since Trump called Zelensky a dictator and that Ukraine started the war. Though now Trump says he doesn't remember calling Zelensky a dictator. It should be clear to Zelensky that Trump doesn't care how much land it costs Ukraine. Trump wants credit for bringing peace and he doesn't care what it cost Ukraine. Right or wrong isn't a factor, Trump just wants the credit.

In reality, all Trump can do is withhold support for Ukraine. I hope Europe can step up and help Ukraine maintain the fight against Russia. At least to put Ukraine in a better bargaining position with Russia.

[PlausiblyDamp]

Personally I think it gave Zelenskyy the perfect opportunity to show to the world what trump is like. We often see Trump's social media posts, and speeches, but this showed to the world how he acts to a person who doesn't fawn over him.

The outcome was always going to be something like this, no matter how long it took to get a meeting.

[Shaggy Hiker]

When is the right time? Trump changes his position more often than the tides rise and fall.

[wes4dbt]

When is the right time? Trump changes his position more often than the tides rise and fall.

Maybe never. But at least wait for the tides to be moving in a favorable direction.

Perhaps Zelensky thought the minerals deal was a strong enough bargaining chip. But Trump still thinks he can force a quick peace deal.

[PlausiblyDamp]

One big problem is the fact the first negotiation regarding Ukraine was behind closed doors between the USA and Russia; we have no idea what kind of agreement was reached in that meeting.

This was nothing more than an attempt to bully Zelenskyy publicly, but if he hadn't agreed to the meeting then the narrative would be spun to make him look cowardly as well as unwilling to make peace.

This was never intended to be a balanced discussion.

[wes4dbt]

I haven't heard of any offer of peace from Russia. If Russia wants peace it would be very easy. All they have to is stop invading Ukraine, send it's troops back to Russia. War is over.

[dilettante]

Zelenskyy was also arrogant and combative with Biden not long ago.

But a phone call between the two leaders in June played out differently from previous ones, according to four people familiar with the call. Biden had barely finished telling Zelenskyy he’d just greenlighted another $1 billion in U.S. military assistance for Ukraine when Zelenskyy started listing all the additional help he needed and wasn’t getting. Biden lost his temper, the people familiar with the call said. The American people were being quite generous, and his administration and the U.S. military were working hard to help Ukraine, he said, raising his voice, and Zelenskyy could show a little more gratitude.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...-aid-rcna54592


So maybe slap another quarter into that high horse you're riding to play again.

[wes4dbt]

Was glad to see the vast majority of European and NATO leaders speak out in support of Ukraine. I thought this comment was a valid observation,

Kaja Kallas, the European Union’s foreign policy chief, said in a statement that it’s “clear that the free world needs a new leader.” European Union leaders also issued a joint statement urging Zelensky to “be strong.”

It does seem clear that the US can longer be trusted to support it's allies and their shared values. Note sure the one single European country can make that step, or that Europe would want that.

[dilettante]

I guess I can see how if one lives someplace that profits from the military-industrial complex so much the idea of igniting WW III might seem exciting. Immoral, but what's new?

The authoritarian cabal known as the EU and its minions within the UK may be just as excited for their own reasons. But the people they lord over are pretty done with it all. Look at the farce in Germany after the election didn't go their way. The establishment duopoly rose up to suppress the will of the people.

They no longer have the resources to pull off this crap any more. Things may end up pretty ugly all across Europe without regime change.

[dilettante]

[FunkyDexter]

Ukraine contributed men and materials to both the Afghan and Iraq conflicts despite having no formal alliance with the USA. How many times has JD Vance said thank you? And does this entitle Ukraine to part of Texas?

The USA is the only nation to have ever triggered NATO's article 5, and NATO responded.

It would be good if a certain subset Americans came to the realisation that moral obligations flow two ways.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

Current over here is that the USA is currently "the worst country in the world" - if I had to sum it up in one sentence.

Other words are "betrayal", "traitor", "despicable" a word beginning with C. is heard a lot in normal social media, unheard of. Someone who winks (replace that 'i' with an 'a' if you want), "working for the Russians", "a Russian asset", is another phrase I have heard.

If you really believe that the man with a sound of a fart as his surname was suitable as your King and Emperor and represents the embodiment of your nation then, to us, the USA is the greatest disappointment of this century and in most of the lives of the majority on the UK, Europe and very large portion of the world. I expect to be pissed on, raped and then dumped upon from a very great height.

[PlausiblyDamp]

Look at the farce in Germany after the election didn't go their way.

January the 6th, does that ring a bell for someone not getting their own way and things turning violent (a farce would have been a lot better compared to what happened)

[FunkyDexter]

Also, it did "go their way". The AFD got more votes than many of us would like but they didn't win. The CDU/CSU won the most seats and formed a government. So what farce?

[wes4dbt]

Current over here is that the USA is currently "the worst country in the world" - if I had to sum it up in one sentence.

A lot of people here feel the same way. Definitely not proud of what Trump is trying to do to Ukraine, for the US to be aligning itself with Putin is an embarrassment. Cutting off food and medical aid to impoverished nations is shameful. Then add in wanting to turn Gaza into a resort. It's a low I've never felt before.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I feel for you. Those thoughts I relayed are not my own. They are those that I am encountering in social media.

Mine are far deeper and much more malignant. Trump is making me think thoughts that I have never thought before about anyone. Thank God that those that created the US constitution allowed the people to arm themselves against someone "who wouldst be King". First time and only time ever I have been positive toward gun ownership amongst the masses.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I think that this should be your essential song at the moment.

[wes4dbt]

Mine are far deeper and much more malignant. Trump is making me think thoughts that I have never thought before about anyone. Thank God that those that created the US constitution allowed the people to arm themselves against someone "who wouldst be King". First time and only time ever I have been positive toward gun ownership amongst the masses.

The problem with that is the most heavily armed is the far right, which tend to be Trump supporters.

I'd say the best tool is our greed. When these poor policies start hitting the pocket book of all Americans Trumps power will drop very quickly. I just hope that happens before our economy completely crashes.

[PlausiblyDamp]

I would love any Trump supporters to explain the end of this video (from Fox news)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...or/ar-AA1zWXss

When Trump says he can't believe he called Zelenskyy a Dictator - is he lying or is he actually so confused he can't remember creating a major global news story mere days previously?

Out of the two options, which of them is the one that makes him most suitable to be President? Do you admire him for this? If there are other options than those two then I would love to hear them as well.

I would also love to know why Zelenskyy not wearing a suit is disrespecting the oval office, yet Musk wearing a baseball cap, and what looks like a t-shirt isn't disrespecting the oval office? Is it respectful to bring a 4-year old kid into the oval office and have him pick his nose?

[sapator]

Trump pauses aid to Ukraine after Zelensky clash

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pau...012955036.html

The issue here is that Euro idiots , well, some try to push military aid to Ukraine. Is there something I'm missing as the military capability of Euro countries is not that significant. The only country that still has significant military equipment is Greece. Our prime idiot seems not to get the Friday message and will probably try to continue to be a good dog and send our military equipment to Ukraine. Till he get's to prison. Saying that with somewhat more confidence from what I've seen in the huge protest on Friday. Maybe we finally got our minds out of our rarses and stop voting for traitors.

[PlausiblyDamp]

Trump pauses aid to Ukraine after Zelensky clash

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pau...012955036.html

The issue here is that Euro idiots , well, some try to push military aid to Ukraine. Is there something I'm missing as the military capability of Euro countries is not that significant. The only country that still has significant military equipment is Greece. Our prime idiot seems not to get the Friday message and will probably try to continue to be a good dog and send our military equipment to Ukraine. Till he get's to prison. Saying that with somewhat more confidence from what I've seen in the huge protest on Friday. Maybe we finally got our minds out of our rarses and stop voting for traitors.

Of course he does, Trump doesn't care about Ukraine or Zelenskyy - all he wants is to be friends with Putin.

So Europe standing by the agreements it made to protect Ukraine makes them idiots, or do you mean something else?

If Russia wins in Ukraine then this will probably not be the end of it, it will give Russia the confidence to push further into Europe. Trump making a spectacle of Zelenskyy and then using it to justify pulling aid is all part of a big pantomime - he was always going to go along with Putin, everything he has done has been to show preference to Putin.

[sapator]

Russia will push further ? Hopefully they will occupy UK, we are reading some completely idiotic statements from there, hopefully they will make some sense to them.

Yes EU standing with the agreement is completely idiotic but you will soon be in a path that an agreement will be made for Ukraine by US Russia and Ukraine and the idiotic EU agreement will not mater at all. So better practice the excuses you gonna write then and be sure to focus on Trump been evil because he stopped the war.

Edit. The forum is really struggling with 503 errors

[FunkyDexter]

A lot of people here feel the same way.

I think most people here do still make the distinction and blame "Trump" rather than "America" but it's starting to become more generalised. E.g. the booing of the American National Anthem in Canada - that has an "All Americans" kinda feel to it. I think things will slide toward the more general but they're not there yet, thankfully.

Hopefully they will occupy UK

It's highly unlikely that this wouldn't involve Greece being occupied first so be careful what you wish for. You're a lot closer to the problem than we are and you don't have a nice convenient Channel to get across. There's a reason we went uninvaded in two world wars while you didn't. I suggest you think REALLY hard about what you're fantasising here.

[FunkyDexter]

Trump pauses aid to Ukraine after Zelensky clash

I'm not sure what the implications of this are. Military spending in Europe has jumped massively since Putin invaded Ukraine. Financially we can fill that hole immediately. The issue is that a great deal of that spending is on American arms. If Trump decides to block that I'm not sure how quickly we can ramp up production - that's a slower process. I suspect we'd be looking at a delay of 3 to 6 months but it's very hard to say as this is one of those things Governments tend to be reticent to publish details about. At present roughly 60% of the materials come from Europe so that's the majority but the 40% from USA would be significant loss.

Another concern would be if Musk decided to withdraw Star Link. Large portions or Ukraine's drone defence as well as their C and C comms depend on that. They've been moving away from it and towards their own fibre optic systems for the last year but it's not clear how advanced that process is.

And the last major consideration is Trump lifting sanctions on Russia. Russia's economy is a busted flush at this point but would probably recover without sanctions.

I will say this, while I think it's unlikely we would be foolish not to be at least considering the possibility that Europe could be at war with the USA in the not too distant future. This may seem hyperbolic and beyond imagining but Vance has already endorsed that European troops defending Ukraine would be a provocation to Russia, Trump is almost certainly going to leave NATO and he is threatening military action against two NATO members (Canada and Denmark). it's clear that Trump has aligned himself wholly with Russia in the last couple of weeks and the path to conflict from there is clear of obstacles. We should be using diplomacy to prevent the outcome but we should also be militarily preparing for it.

[sapator]

I
It's highly unlikely that this wouldn't involve Greece being occupied first so be careful what you wish for. You're a lot closer to the problem than we are and you don't have a nice convenient Channel to get across. There's a reason we went uninvaded in two world wars while you didn't. I suggest you think REALLY hard about what you're fantasising here.

Can't you take a joke? For a preceding "joke" statement?
I wasn't the one trembling with Russia marching on.
Also to get to Greece they most probably travel thru Turkey. Our Turkish friends will never let that happen!
I'm thinking you have no idea how many people in Greece are hopping for Russia to occupy us and get rid of the NATO puppets here.
Also I don't know if you have any idea what is the strongest conventional army in Europe for NATO. If they will be occupying UK they would have no significant army to deal with but you could thread them with Nukes, see how well this will go.

OH US will leave NATO now hmm? OH sad news, sad news indeed. Even sadder if NATO breaks up. I'm very very sad....For you.

[FunkyDexter]

Can't you take a joke?

When you're talking about my country being invaded, no.

Regarding army sizes, Turkey, France, UK, Germany, Italy and Poland all have larger forces than you. If you're talking about expenditure you don't even make the top 10..

Greece is certainly a significant contributor to NATO but hardly the biggest.

[wqweto]

It must be clear by now that sapator and his kin will great his new russian overlords with flowers at the Bosphorus if possible. It a sad sight but age and communist ideology does not leave anyone unscathed.

[sapator]

Again, I wasn't the one started the Russia occupation to all Europe. A looser approach will be preferred to this but have it your way.
Army to size ratio is off the chart. We are very close to every country that you mention with 1/5 of the population. Everyone will have a really hard time invade a robust country. Also if we are talking about how easy anyone will be able to pass through Greece then, it's not that easy from what history shows.

Also why are you only looking to troops?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ength-country/ -3rd (almost more than every other NATO country combined except US and Turkey)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ength-country/ -5th
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ength-country/ -6th

We are clearly armed to the teeth for an occupational war.


I love your remarks wqweto . Tho am as communist as Russia is not our friend. Also Bosphorus is on Turkey side but, will cannon them flowers.

Greece will hopefully not be a contributor to NATO, as NATO will cease to exist soon.

[PlausiblyDamp]

Again, I wasn't the one started the Russia occupation to all Europe. A looser approach will be preferred to this but have it your way.
Army to size ratio is off the chart. We are very close to every country that you mention with 1/5 of the population. Everyone will have a really hard time invade a robust country. Also if we are talking about how easy anyone will be able to pass through Greece then, it's not that easy from what history shows.

Also why are you only looking to troops?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ength-country/ -3rd (almost more than every other NATO country combined except US and Turkey)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ength-country/ -5th
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ength-country/ -6th

We are clearly armed to the teeth for an occupational war.


I love your remarks wqweto . Tho am as communist as Russia is not our friend. Also Bosphorus is on Turkey side but, will cannon them flowers.

Greece will hopefully not be a contributor to NATO, as NATO will cease to exist soon.

So what do you have against NATO in particular? They have helped to maintain peace over many years, as well as various other non-military programmes.

[sapator]

For real?

OK for reference read the Ukraine war thread.

The more up to date question is what Trump administration has against NATO? Where the lie of maintaining peace will actually stick.

Edit.
Also I love how on my whole post that I do not make a single aggressive claim against NATO you sprout an out of the blue question.
I have the feeling that soon after a couple of loopholes I will be called racist.