Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

[OptionBase1]

Sergio Perez manages to not make it to the line in time for his qualifying lap and qualifies 13th for the Sprint race. You can't make this stuff up.

[OptionBase1]

New 2025 driver scuttlebutt:

Red Bull: Max, Carlos Sainz
VCARB: Yuki, Liam
Williams: Albon, Colapinto

With the great year Sainz has had this year for Ferrari, this would be a no-brainer move for Red Bull to sign him to replace Perez. Sainz was reported to have a clause in his new Williams contract that would let him leave Williams if either Mercedes or Red Bull offered him a seat. Sainz already drove under the Red Bull team structure as Max's teammate at Torro Rosso years ago. Hopefully this happens!

[wes4dbt]

Think I'd rather see Liam paired with Max. I like to see what he could do in a top car. But Sainz is having a really good year.

[OptionBase1]

Lando has an opportunity to close the gap to Max big time today if he can capitalize.

[OptionBase1]

Dream race for Max and Alpine. Pretty much a disaster for everyone else. That race "start" that wasn't was the biggest clustercoit I've seen in a long time in racing.

[OptionBase1]

Nascar finish. Still haven't announced the decision about Bell/Byron. Longshot prediction: Nascar rules that Bell broke the Chastain rule, but Byron benefited from the 3 and the 1 cars manipulating the finish on Byron's behalf, and they disqualify both of them and promote Larson into the Final Four.

[OptionBase1]

Jeff Burton seemed unhappy that the radio conversation between the 3 and 1 teams and drivers exposed the shady happenings in this type of racing, where non-playoff drivers can manipulate things to help certain drivers move forward in the playoffs. Really bad look for Nascar when things like "knowing the plan" is discussed openly on the radio regarding the 1 and the 3 roadblocking two-wide behind the 24.

Did Bubba Wallace really have a tire going down, or did he just let Bell pass? At least that situation wasn't overtly collusive.

[wes4dbt]

Dream race for Max and Alpine. Pretty much a disaster for everyone else. That race "start" that wasn't was the biggest clustercoit I've seen in a long time in racing.

Alpine hit the jackpot. I don't know why Ocon left the inside open in turn 1 for Max to take the lead. That's where he made most of his passes.

Really bad day for HAAS.

[wes4dbt]

Jeff Burton seemed unhappy that the radio conversation between the 3 and 1 teams and drivers exposed the shady happenings in this type of racing, where non-playoff drivers can manipulate things to help certain drivers move forward in the playoffs. Really bad look for Nascar when things like "knowing the plan" is discussed openly on the radio regarding the 1 and the 3 roadblocking two-wide behind the 24.

Did Bubba Wallace really have a tire going down, or did he just let Bell pass? At least that situation wasn't overtly collusive.

I didn't see anything about the 1 and 3 conversation on the NASCAR website. Where did you hear about it???

I don't have a problem with the Bell penalty. He road the wall for a while.

[OptionBase1]

I didn't see anything about the 1 and 3 conversation on the NASCAR website. Where did you hear about it???

I don't have a problem with the Bell penalty. He road the wall for a while.

Those conversations were played after the race during the post-race broadcast on NBC. Very, very conclusive that the plan was for Chevy's to roadblock for Byron to let him point in to the final 4.

Martin Truex Junior was thrown out of the playoffs many years ago because of another driver manipulating the finish of a race, so there is precedence for tossing Byron IMO.

It's a really, really bad look for Nascar. Especially now that it is legal in many states to bet on races. Clearcut, multi-team collusion over radio broadcasts. Not good at all.

[OptionBase1]

Onboard radio from the 3 of Austin Dillon.

https://x.com/basso488/status/1853252479707763014

Early on, discussion of where the 24 is in terms of points to the playoff line.

36 seconds
Spotter or Crew chief: "Keep me posted on this deal (Justin?)"

40 seconds
Spotter or Crew chief: "Ah, 1/2 77, 1 With him" [At that point, the 77 was at least 1 if not multiple laps down. The 1 is Chastain]

43 seconds
Austin: "(Does) he know the deal?"

After that, pretty boilerplate messaging.

[OptionBase1]

Onboard radio from the 1 of Ross Chastain.

https://x.com/basso488/status/1853285151465455670

1:11
Spotter: "The 24 is 1 to the good, 1 point to the good" [Why would a different driver for a different team care if it was straight up racing?]

[wes4dbt]

Not the best look for NASCAR but nothing that should get Byron disqualified. The 24 team wasn't involved in any of those conversations. Not that surprising that fellow Chevy team member that had nothing to gain by passing the 24 chose not to. The biggest problem was talking about it on the radio. lol

In F1 they come right out and say it. Must suck for the driver getting the bad end of the deal.

[OptionBase1]

Not the best look for NASCAR but nothing that should get Byron disqualified. The 24 team wasn't involved in any of those conversations. Not that surprising that fellow Chevy team member that had nothing to gain by passing the 24 chose not to. The biggest problem was talking about it on the radio. lol

In F1 they come right out and say it. Must suck for the driver getting the bad end of the deal.

As I said earlier, there is precedent. Martin Truex was disqualified from the playoffs because of Clint Bowyer intentionally spinning to bring out a caution. Manipulating the outcome of a race to the benefit of another driver. Martin didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't matter.

What *should* happen is someone like Dale Jr. should go on his show and just air it all out. Talk about how it is no secret that he would love to move his team up to the Cup Series. But that he is hesitant to, because it's not just his drivers vs. other drivers. It's his drivers vs. a collusive conglomeration of drivers that refuse to race either other hard when any one of them needs the benefit of not being passed. That would get some press that Nascar would **** bricks about.

[wes4dbt]

As I said earlier, there is precedent. Martin Truex was disqualified from the playoffs because of Clint Bowyer intentionally spinning to bring out a caution. Manipulating the outcome of a race to the benefit of another driver. Martin didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't matter.

There is some significant differences. Those were actual teammates and the owner was involved. Also there are are rules against intentionally bringing out a caution and intentionally spinning out has safety issues. As far as I know there is no rules about not passing someone. I'm sure NASCAR isn't happy about the situation. We'll see what NASCAR thinks.

What *should* happen is someone like Dale Jr. should go on his show and just air it all out. Talk about how it is no secret that he would love to move his team up to the Cup Series. But that he is hesitant to, because it's not just his drivers vs. other drivers. It's his drivers vs. a collusive conglomeration of drivers that refuse to race either other hard when any one of them needs the benefit of not being passed. That would get some press that Nascar would **** bricks about.

If Jr. moves to Cup his team would be part of one of those groups. There's no avoiding that, you can't survive without them it's to expensive and their research is to valuable. But this is true in all forms of top level racing. For the most part I think Cup series drivers do a good job of racing everyone hard for every position. You do see the manufacturers groups pitting together on super speed ways but I don't have a real problem with that.

There is just so much money involved at the Cup level, Indy car or F1 that politics is unavoidable. As fans we don't want that, we want 100% hard driving but that's not going to happen.

[wes4dbt]

Maybe I was wrong about there being no rule against not passing if you can.

Truex was kicked out of the playoffs — the scandal ultimately caused the closure of Michael Waltrip Racing — and Jeff Gordon was added as an unprecedented additional driver because he'd been robbed of the chance to race for the playoff position. It was after a weekend of crisis meetings between NASCAR and the teams at the playoff-opening race that NASCAR made its 100% rule.

But the manipulation rule is openly flouted at Daytona and Talladega, where the cars from the manufacturers all work together in the draft and when the drivers make their pit stops. There has yet to be a penalty for those instances.

In this latest case, NASCAR determined Toyota driver Wallace faked a flat tire in order to give Bell the leeway to move out of the way and hit the wall. The riding the wall move was banned after Chastain did it in 2022 to earn the final playoff berth.

In the case of Byron, NASCAR ruled that Chastain and Dillon both ran interference to help fellow Chevrolet driver Byron not lose any position on the track that would cost him a spot in the championship.

Sawyer said the sanctioning body considered taking action against manufacturers Chevrolet and Toyota, but there is nothing in the rulebook that would call for the manufacturers to be punished. NASCAR also planned to meet with the leaders of Ford, Chevy and Toyota to discuss the situation.

[OptionBase1]

Maybe I was wrong about there being no rule against not passing if you can.

I thought they did too, and I can't remember the situation where it was first discussed years ago. Something about the need to drive competitively or something like that.

What probably happens with this is Nascar tells teams to keep this stuff off radio. Which is probably all they can do to be honest. I feel bad for Bell, I feel bad for Byron, I feel bad for Larson. I feel bad for anyone who bets on Nascar.

I hope the result of the final is that one of the other 3 drivers wins the race and everyone moves on. If Bell wins the race, it sucks big time and the story lingers. If Byron wins the championship, then the story will linger.

[OptionBase1]

Story has hit mainstream.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/nascar-a...161600482.html

Penalties have been handed down to the Chastain, Dillon, and Wallace teams.

They must have had data or other radio messages to nail Wallace. All I heard was that he reported having a tire going down and slowed way down.

Byron stays in the final 4. Not sure how I feel about it. I'm glad they addressed it, but not sure that the fines do anything to address the loss of confidence in the legitimacy of the competition.

[wes4dbt]

I read about that yesterday. My confidence in the legitimacy of the races hasn't changed. I think Harvick is honest about the situation,

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/kevin-h...sville-nascar/

It hasn't been a secret. Like I said before, the biggest mistake was talking about it over the radio. Of course I don't have a real problem with manufacture loyalty.

It will be interesting to see if now NASCAR does something about the Super Speedways races.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Once it hits the mainstream, they have no choice but to take action, normal or not. In sports, integrity isn't as important as the appearance of integrity.

[wes4dbt]

Well, Logano has his third Championship. He goes from being out of the round of eight to being champion. Even though he was far from the best driver/team during the regular season. The playoffs add a lot of excitement and I know why NASCAR went to this format. But a one race winner takes all is no way decide who was the best driver for a whole year.

btw - If you haven't seen it, the Xfinity race you should check it out. Great race.

[OptionBase1]

Yeah, Allgier's drive to the front in that race was fantastic. He deserved that championship by far.

I'm glad Logono won yesterday. Of the 4 drivers, I was rooting hardest for Blaney, but Joey getting his 3rd championship was good too. I'm glad neither Bell or Byron won the race, since that would have tarnished the championship in either case.

[wes4dbt]

Yeah, Allgier's drive to the front in that race was fantastic. He deserved that championship by far.

That was a great drive to the front but it would never of happened without some perfectly timed cautions. But I don't hold that against him. lol

[OptionBase1]

Perez qualifies 16th, Max 5th. Red Bull basically guaranteed to stay 3rd in the Constructor's Championship.

I just hope the Driver's championship isn't clinched before the final race. A Lando win and a Max DNF tonight would spice things up.

Also, it amazes me that one of the most inconveniently scheduled races of the entire season is one that takes place in the USA.

[wes4dbt]

Also, it amazes me that one of the most inconveniently scheduled races of the entire season is one that takes place in the USA.

Vegas must have made F1 an offer that they can't refuse. lol

Gasley was impressive again. I was hoping for better from HAAS.

[wes4dbt]

I've don't ever remember a year when the dominate team changes from week to week so often. It's great.

Ferrari still has a good shot at the constructors championship. HAAS is clinging to 6th by one point.

[OptionBase1]

I was half awake for the 2nd half of the race. Sainz had every right to pass LeClerc for 3rd. It is late in the season, Charles isn't fighting for anything in the driver's championship, and Ferrari dropped Sainz at the end of the year, so screw team orders. Plus it didn't hurt the team from a points standpoint, and he deserved the podium if he could get it.

There's still uncertainty at the top for Constructor. It would be epic if Ferrari could squeak it out. And the Alpine, VCARB, Haas battle for 6th, 7th, and 8th will make the final two races interesting.

There was an article somewhere (perhaps Planet F1) where someone was speculating that Lance Stroll might win a championship yet.

[wes4dbt]

There was an article somewhere (perhaps Planet F1) where someone was speculating that Lance Stroll might win a championship yet.

Only if it's for sale. lol

[wes4dbt]

Glad to see GM is going to be fielding a team starting in 2026. Sounds like at first they wont have their own power plant but plan to within a few years. Be interesting to see which power plant they use.

[OptionBase1]

F1 basically gave Michael Andretti a double middle finger when they denied his new team but granted the GM team, which was most of the same people backing it minus Michael. I guess there are still some people in F1 that are butt-hurt that, decades ago, Michael accused his F1 team of giving him a crappy car when he was an F1 driver as a way to get him out of the car because he had a fat contract, with a footnote of he was almost certainly right. I'm glad Mario Andretti is at least involved with this new team.

Red Bull looking like they'll be back to struggling for consistent podiums and the one-off win here and there for 2025 like they were in the late 2010's. Sad, really.

With Mercedes seeming to get their act together again, hopefully 2025 has multi-way battles for both championships.

[wes4dbt]

That was a strange race. The officials really messed things up for a few people. I don't know what they were thinking, there was no way for someone to retrieve that mirror under green.

HAAS made a bad call bringing in Mags before Gasley. No one was making any time on hard tires and Mags was doing a good job keeping Gasley over a second behind him. That probably cost them 6th in the manufacturers championship.

[OptionBase1]

That was a strange race. The officials really messed things up for a few people. I don't know what they were thinking, there was no way for someone to retrieve that mirror under green.

HAAS made a bad call bringing in Mags before Gasley. No one was making any time on hard tires and Mags was doing a good job keeping Gasley over a second behind him. That probably cost them 6th in the manufacturers championship.

Yeah, leaving the mirror there until it got hit, then multiple punctures, then a Safety Car. No idea what that was all about. All they needed was a brief VSC, have a steward retrieve it, and then end the VSC. I was watching the timing and there was a 13+ second gap at race speeds between two groups of drivers, that increases to almost 30 seconds under VSC. Easily, easily enough time for one person to run onto the track from the end of the pit lane wall and grab it and be safe again.

The penalties were a bit much. Ferrari has a fair chance to win the Constructor's championship still. If they can finish 1-2 and McLaren don't finish 3-4, I think Ferrari wins it.

[OptionBase1]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/abbi-p...race-abu-dhabi

This is exactly the kind of stuff that a "women's only" racing series can't do if they expect to be taken seriously. The driver was crowned champion, and then the schedule of the final race weekend was adjusted to add another race, thus making it mathematically possible for her to not win the championship.

I remember a couple years ago there was massive, massive butthurt in the "media" when someone involved with F1 said he didn't see a female F1 driver making it to the grid in the next 5 years. Some people don't understand how long it takes a driver to make it into an F1 seat. If there aren't any teenage female drivers right now that are absolutely kicking ass in the lower tier series', then that 5 year statement will continue to hold true.

This F1 Academy series is a bit of a punch line. Their races are just a handful of laps, the cars are quite slow. Believe it or not, there was a race winner earlier this year that was disqualified because she took the checkered flag and kept racing at full speed, not knowing the race was over, and took the checkered flag twice. Mindblowing.

[OptionBase1]

Max dumping Oscar in turn 1 was completely boneheaded on Max's part. It did add drama to the Constructor's championship battle for the entire race.

McLaren have to be the favorites going in to 2025. Of the top 4 teams, they are the only one who will come back with the same two drivers, which is a huge positive from a team cohesion standpoint.

My understanding is that the 2025 rules package are mostly the same as the 2024 rules, so the good teams and the mediocre teams are likely to remain the same. I suppose Aston Martin could have a jump in 2025 with the Newey effect, that would be a good thing for the sport.

If I were forced to wager, I would bet that Lando wins the driver's championship, McLaren win the constructor's championship. After that, who knows, which is a good thing.

[wes4dbt]

Max has been pulling a lot of bonehead moves recently. Ever scent their car lost dominance. I hope we have a different champ next year.

I'm always a little sad when all the racing is over for the year. Now just got to wait for the Daytona 500.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well, it's December 9th. The YEAR is almost over for the year.

[OptionBase1]

I'm always a little sad when all the racing is over for the year. Now just got to wait for the Daytona 500.

I'm not big on IMSA, but I do watch the Rolex 24 each year, and that is like a month before the 500. It gets drivers and owners from all of the big racing series, which makes it interesting.

[wes4dbt]

I'm not big on IMSA, but I do watch the Rolex 24 each year, and that is like a month before the 500. It gets drivers and owners from all of the big racing series, which makes it interesting.

Yeah, anything helps when your Jonesing for that racing fix. lol

[wes4dbt]

I always get a laugh when a business makes a bad move then wants the other party to minimize the mistake.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/sergio...doff-continues

Perez should get every penny he was promised. His F1 career is probably over when he leaves RB and RB got a lot more money than he does.

[OptionBase1]

I always get a laugh when a business makes a bad move then wants the other party to minimize the mistake.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/sergio...doff-continues

Perez should get every penny he was promised. His F1 career is probably over when he leaves RB and RB got a lot more money than he does.

Yep. No one forced them to sign him on for 2 additional years when he was already several races into his catastrophic slump. No sympathy for them having to write a check for services not rendered.