Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[Eduardo-]

he also says the reason why they have not taken the vaccine is:
- Socially disadvantaged groups
- People with an addiction such as smoking alcohol
- Side effects of the vaccine

What does smoking have to do with the vaccine?

[Schmidt]

so Dr. Mike Yeadon is referring to this, if you are interested.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Eku7jPMEGtvJ/

Thanks, didn't know about this guy till now...
(apparently one of the few remaining journalists in germany, who still take their job seriously).

And neither did I know (not in that detail) about all the pre-planning and "play-through-scenarios" which took place
(with concrete event-names and dates, and all the personally involved "players", who took part in it).

Can only recommend that video to all the guys here who still doubt,
that "there's a method behind all the madness we witness currently".

Here is the original in german BTW - (for those who prefer it this way - english subs are available for it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnJhHOU_28
It's just plain facts from official sources - presented in chronolological order.

What was new to me as well from that presentation, was "the final play-through-event" (Event 201),
which happened at Oct. 18. 2019...

Remember the other video (about the Milken-institute conference, where Facui and other important
"players" were invited, to discuss "how to best sell the measures taken in a pandemic, to the public"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kFJijSgXnQ

At the time I consumed the "Milken-stuff", I thought the whole time watching that discussion,
(which felt like a kind of "swearing-in ceremony for representants of the health-sector" to me):
- that "Fauci and the government guy with the nice socks"...
- ...held back somehow, as if they knew "there was something more, that's going to happen soon"
(couldn't put my finger on it at that time - please watch it carefully, to know what I mean).

Now, knowing that the Milken-conference (with the "national players") took place only 10 days after "Event 201"
(which covered the "international players" - China included!)
the whole thing suddenly makes a whole lot more sense - at least to me.

The still existing belief, that this is "just another random pandemic" - along with:
"there is no coordinating instance, nobody can pull that off at an international level"...

Well, think again folks (preferrably after watching the two videos).

Olaf

[Shaggy Hiker]

I don't think I will ever understand this. As far as I'm concerned, the only line that should be drawn is personal insults. I do not believe any discussion should be moderated outside of attacks upon the participants of the discussion by other participants. If a guy comes here to debate genocide as a good public policy or someone wants to extol the virtues of beating his wife, he should be allowed to do so freely. I do not believe in silencing these guys just because the majority may find their ideas distasteful. I've never understood this. I've always believed that the best remedy for stupid ideas is ridicule, not the silencing of the persons behind the ideas. Allowing it to be debated and discussed would quickly reveal if such ideas have merit or if they are indeed nonsense.

EDIT:

I'd also add, that I've learned in life even the most outlandish or idiotic ideas can have kernels of wisdom in it.

Yeah, that's what happened with the immigration thread. It started out as a largely racist proposition, and everybody jumped on it until the OP deleted the original post, which at the time would result in the entire thread being deleted.

The problem is, it's very hard to ridicule the thought without also ridiculing the person. After all, if they put the thought forwards with sincerity, then everybody who says the idea is stupid is effectively saying that the person is stupid. Technically, they may not be, but everybody sees it that way. If the group doesn't give you the love and attention you feel you deserve, you end up feeling rejected. That's why things like 4Chan are the way they are: People seek those of like beliefs. They don't like to be contradicted and they don't like to be wrong.

Furthermore, it is clear that allowing ideas to be debated isn't changing anything. This thread alone shows that if you push back against ideas, all you end up getting is abuse. So far, people in this thread have called me insane, deluded, and other things. Funky was asked not to fact check, and we've both been asked not to participate. I'm not sure how else that can be seen other than a fairly polite request that there be no debate or disagreement with whatever is put forwards.

[Shaggy Hiker]

- People with an addiction such as smoking alcohol

Well, yes. Smoking alcohol is pretty bad for you, especially if you have a beard.

[TysonLPrice]

Well, yes. Smoking alcohol is pretty bad for you, especially if you have a beard.

Crack cocaine too...if you are Richard Pryor.

When you're running down the street on fire, people get out of your way!
Richard Pryor

[baka]

What does smoking have to do with the vaccine?

what he meant to say:
- smart, educated and healthy people they take the vaccine. they are good people.

- stupid, uneducated and not healthy (smoking, drinking etc), they are not. and its their fault we have restrictions and rules and can't return to normal.

Well, think again folks (preferrably after watching the two videos).

yeah, it was a good find. I will definitely check more of his stuff.
and I agree. watch the videos.

[FunkyDexter]

If a guy comes here to debate genocide as a good public policy or someone wants to extol the virtues of beating his wife, he should be allowed to do so freely.

No! That's a hard no and would get that guy banned.

[TysonLPrice]

No! That's a hard no and would get that guy banned.

Well along the vein of what is being said...what is the difference between a genocide discussion and trying to convince someone not to do something that is proven not only to save individuals lives but society as a whole. I'm pretty sure genocide was seriously discussed in China recently, the 1800's in the US west, and aboriginals in Australia.

My personal stance is a couple of posters on this thread should be warned and see where it goes from there. But I also agree with the folks that say we should self regulate ourselves. And that is normally what happens here. This anti-vaccine rhetoric is actually harming people across the globe and that got under my skin. Any site, no matter how small, is contributing to that death toll tolerating that in my opinion.

Now beating your wife might be a step too far...I suppose

[Eduardo-]

what he meant to say:
- smart, educated and healthy people they take the vaccine. they are good people.

- stupid, uneducated and not healthy (smoking, drinking etc), they are not. and its their fault we have restrictions and rules and can't return to normal.

yeah, it was a good find. I will definitely check more of his stuff.
and I agree. watch the videos.

Well, then I must be stupid, uneducated and not healthy, because I smoke.

[TysonLPrice]

Well, then I must be stupid, uneducated and not healthy, because I smoke.

I guess I'm in the club...I do too, but not cigarettes

[Eduardo-]

I guess I'm in the club...I do too, but not cigarettes

Humm, I'm afraid to ask...

[Eduardo-]

Interesting article here, I agree with most, if not all.

The applicants also cited quotes from Holocaust survivors who have drawn “stark parallels between Covid restrictions and the beginning of the Holocaust.” In an open letter, the Holocaust survivors have asked medical regulatory authorities to “stop this ungodly medical experiment on humankind immediately,” which they maintain violates the Nuremberg Code.

They even allege that “another holocaust of greater magnitude is taking place before our eyes.” One survivor, Vera Sharav, noted in an interview cited in the complaint,

“The stark lesson of the Holocaust is that whenever doctors join forces with government and deviate from their personal, professional, clinical commitment to do no harm to the individual, medicine can then be perverted from a healing, humanitarian profession to a murderous apparatus.”

“What sets the Holocaust apart from all other mass genocides is the pivotal role played by the medical establishment, the entire medical establishment. Every step of the murderous process was endorsed by the academic, professional medical establishment. Medical doctors and prestigious medical societies and institutions lent the veneer of legitimacy to infanticide, mass murder of civilians.”

[baka]

https://tube.childrenshealthdefense....3-681a09c1259b

Call for a European moratorium on health restrictions: the future of our children is at stake.

In the framework of the citizens' rally in Brussels organised on 23 January by Europeans United International, Children's Health Defense Europe organised a press conference with several speakers concerned by the current policy turn and the future that awaits our young generations, who have been constantly side-lined since the beginning of the crisis.

During the pandemic, most EU member states made far-reaching decisions, often blind to the health, physical and mental well-being of children and young people, putting political agendas and vested interests first.

Today, the European Union is considering continuing and centralising these measures imposed by the state of emergency, which have failed and caused so much damage, and which are also putting the young generation at unnecessary and exceptional risk, particularly through the imposition of masks and vaccination campaigns. It is time to change course and call for an immediate moratorium on this arsenal of obligations and restrictions that cannot offer a sustainable and humane future for society.

The panels of experts composed of internationally renowned lawyers, economists and doctors will review the impact of current policies on our society and in particular on its most fragile members.

Children's Health Defense Europe is an association chaired by attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. whose mission is to protect children's health by combating hazardous exposures, to defend their health rights and their fundamental rights in general.

and one of the persons that talks are Vera Sharav (and Catherine Austin Fitts, Mary Holland, Reiner Fuellmich, Renate Holzeisen and others)

just wanted to point it out, I think I shared this video a couple of days ago.

[wes4dbt]

Allowing it to be debated and discussed would quickly reveal if such ideas have merit or if they are indeed nonsense.

Well, this post is over 2yrs old and has over 5,000 posts. Which ideas have merit and which are nonsense still depends on who you ask.

[Peter Porter]

Well, then I must be stupid, uneducated and not healthy, because I smoke.

I guess I'm in the club...I do too, but not cigarettes

Humm, I'm afraid to ask...

He's smoking alcohol!

Thanks for letting us know about this new addiction, Baka!

[sapator]

Well, this post is over 2yrs old and has over 5,000 posts. Which ideas have merit and which are nonsense still depends on who you ask.

I was the star in the middle, everybody adored me and now they are trying to take my glory away! Should we allow it?! ...NO! BAN!!

[Eduardo-]

He's smoking alcohol!

Thanks for letting us know about this new addiction, Baka!

ROFLOL

[Schmidt]

... anti-vaccine rhetoric is actually harming people across the globe ...

IMO, what you've read so far was (for the most part, IMO): "anti-fascism-rhetoric"
(for a whole lot of good reasons and undeniable facts).

Any site, no matter how small, is contributing to that death toll tolerating that in my opinion.

You certainly make it sound (same as the corporate media BTW),
as if the human race is on the brink of extinction...

FYI, here are a few recently published UK-numbers (they came out ~2 weeks ago, official deathcount ~150,000 at that time):
- true death-count (from covid, not with covid): ~17,000 (that's only slightly more than "normal flu-deaths per season")
- and the average age among those deaths was: ~84years (and that's 1-2 years above life-expectancy in the UK)

If we'd now correct the "official world-death-count" of currently ~5.5Mio (over the last 2 years), by roughly that factor 9...
... but Ok, let's be generous and assume only a factor 5.5, which leaves us with a "true death-count over the last 2 years" of:
- about 1Mio People world-wide, who really died from Covid
- the average-age among those deaths, worldwide probably being around 80 (instead of the 84 in the UK)

Ok, now some simple math - and I'm not trying to come across too callous towards our elderly (80+) people -
but since most of these covid-deaths were happening "around the average life-expectancy" -
it should be allowed to say - in the context of the following comparison -which focuses on "years of potential":
- that the "lost potential" of the ~1 Mio covid-deaths (over the last 2 years) was probably in the range of ~2Mio years total
- if we generously allow for "2 years of additional potential, on average - per elderly person, assuming covid didn't happen"

Now, please compare that to the ~6Mio children who starved to death in the same period of time
(the official, current numbers are: ~3Mio children under the age of 5 per year).
- thats ~6Mio over the last two years, multiplied by (80-5)=75 years... in total 450Mio years of lost potential.

So, we have ~2Mio vs. ~450Mio years of "lost potential to the human race" -
but where is the outcry in the media about this ... or for that matter - where is yours?

Seems, that "putting things properly into perspective" is really a lost art.

Olaf

[Shaggy Hiker]

I was the star in the middle, everybody adored me and now they are trying to take my glory away! Should we allow it?! ...NO! BAN!!

What's this 'star in the middle' stuff? You were the star at the beginning. You were the originator. Everybody else was just riding on your glory.

[Shaggy Hiker]

IMO, what you've read so far was (for the most part, IMO): "anti-fascism-rhetoric"
(for a whole lot of good reasons and undeniable facts).

They've been denied many times, so it's a bit hard to say they are undeniable. Pages back we covered the fact about vaccine requirements that have been in place for decades in some places (the US, anyways, but some others as well if I remember right). People are fussing over a mandate. That's fine, but they've been in place for a long time, and most people are not fussing about them.

[Shaggy Hiker]

So, we have ~2Mio vs. ~450Mio years of "lost potential to the human race" -
but where is the outcry in the media about this ... or for that matter - where is yours?

Seems, that "putting things properly into perspective" is really a lost art.

Olaf

Putting aside your specious numbers, what is your point here? What outcry are you asking for? Is there anybody saying that child hunger is a good thing? I know about it. I contribute money to organizations that I 'think' will do some good in that area. If there was a mandate to take action against child hunger, I'd support it. So, what is it that you are asking people to do? It sure sounds like you are asking people to ignore COVID because of child hunger, but that seems unlikely. The two don't appear to be related, and we can certainly take action against both, since one doesn't preclude the other or vice versa, so what are you asking for?

[baka]

Shaggy?

what Schmidt wrote is very easy to understand.
why is it hard for you?

do you know the words: perspective and double moral.

who do you want to protect the most?
- 6 million children or 2 million 80+ old people?

you will pick the children of course. a sane person do that.

right now the focus is on 80+ people, because they are dying from "covid"
we need to mass vaccinate everybody. the entire world.
and now also babies (the latest news). so the entire population, nobody excluded.

this to protect the old and fragile.

now, what about those 6 million children?
why don't we have the same efforts put to them?
mandate all people on the world to pay taxes so we can help them.

but thats not the case. we are not giving the same amount of care to them.

the double moral is that we are selective. helping the old.
and the message is clear. you need to sacrifice your freedom, you need to stay cool during lockdown and restrictions, you need to take a vaccination, even if you are young and healthy, and now also children and babies.

that seems to be an act of "GOD", an altruistic act, to help our old. and everybody need to take part.
but we are not giving the same act to all the children. (and everyone else that dies in the world every year, so not just children)

and where's the act of GOD, with people that don't have insurance? people in poor countries without money can't afford, (like diabetic) so what happens? google what happens when u don't treat it, what happens with your body. but now we are not altruistic, now we don't care.

[Schmidt]

...what is your point here?

Really now?
I was pointing out hypocrisy... (and ignorance), inherent:
- in suggesting that "the un-vaccinated" are the main-reason for covid-deaths (when they are not)
- in suggesting that the current covid-deaths are "far above flu-level" (when they are not, according to the last study in the UK)
- in suggesting that "everything is fine with democracy" ...
.. (when ~0.5Mio people are threatened to lose their jobs for bein un-vacced, in germany alone)

Is there anybody saying that child hunger is a good thing?

It was about "putting things in perspective".
The current propaganda-machine was not focusing on "child-starvation" over the last 2 years,
despite the huge difference in "lost potential" (of about factor 200).

But is that factor 200 somehow representative in "air-time" or "amount of published articles" -
Nope... the opposite is the case.

So, what is it that you are asking people to do?

To be more propaganda-resistant would be a good start.
The ability to recognize propaganda in the first place - would of course be a prerequisite.

It sure sounds like you are asking people to ignore COVID...

Nope, all I'm asking is, for people to "put it into perspective".

Covid was nowhere near as deadly as the "death-counts (with covid)" they were publishing, is suggesting.

And Covid certainly is *now* (with Omicron) not much different from "normal flu".
Still the "mandate-enforcment-policies" (from both, governments and global companies),
are in "full swing" (for no reason).

HTH

Olaf

[dilettante]

I've begun to wonder if the COVID denial movement in all its aspects isn't engineered with many dupes just falling in line. A sort of global ongoing Reichstag Fire program, becoming an excuse to clamp down on speech, free press, out of favor politics, and "undesirables." Part of a Large Do-Over of globalism, if you will.

[Niya]

Nope, all I'm asking is, for people to "put it into perspective".

Covid was nowhere near as deadly as the "death-counts (with covid)" they were publishing, is suggesting.

Yea, I figured this out pretty early on. It's one of the reasons I'm indifferent to the pandemic and why I think all these measures against it are unnecessarily draconian. And all I did was crunch some very very basic numbers. It baffles me how much people refuse to think for themselves and buy into the mainstream narrative that says we all should be in a panic.

On a side note, I can only think of one person in the 2 years of this pandemic that I lost to Covid. It was a childhood friend. In the same time period, I've lost several people I knew well to "normal" deaths(accidents, crime, old age etc). So yea, they can miss me with all that fuss over Covid. It's just bullshit.

[Niya]

Well, this post is over 2yrs old and has over 5,000 posts. Which ideas have merit and which are nonsense still depends on who you ask.

But progress has been made. For example, even though I was always distrustful of mainstream media, I didn't learn until reading some of the posts in this thread that there were so many nefarious things being driven by the pandemic. You will never get everyone to agree on anything but if you can win even one person over to whatever side you fall on, it should be considered a victory. That's one extra person on your side that you didn't have yesterday. That's one extra person who is there in your camp that would not have been there had the discussion not been allowed to happen.

[baka]

Quebec scraps planned tax on the unvaccinated

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ixed-1.6334828

a small victory, and its all thanks to the protesters.
good work guys!

[Niya]

I know I did...you are backpedaling.

Let's use a contrived example. Let's say someone tells you the sky is red. You could respond:-
"Are you blind or are you just a braindead idiot?"

or you could respond with:-
"Why stop there? The sea is green and trees are black. Making up stuff sure is fun!"

The first response directly attacks the person which I think it is acceptable to moderate. The second response uses sarcasm to make a mockery of the idea of the sky being red. It does not focus upon person who put the idea forth.

[sapator]

What's this 'star in the middle' stuff? You were the star at the beginning. You were the originator. Everybody else was just riding on your glory.

Isn't that an expression? You got the spotlights and you are in the middle shining?

So my friends. What is going on in Canada? Where is the president?
What will happen in 7th of February?
Why almost every country in Europe dropping the restrictions except from countries with pawns (Greece included)?
What they did, turned you into vaxbies they will pay for it dearly. Mark my words, say that I'm spreading fake news, we will see in a while...There is a need to give out some scapegoats for what they did.
I'm Edubaking here but it seems that evidence are coming out that will fry a lot of people. Also I wrote before that Austria grand jury is requesting evidence for the covid measures.
Ah, let me say here that whatever happens US will just bounce it so your traitors,if any, are safe, judging from the mega sleep I see over there, or I'm wrong and you are protesting and your media is not showing it?

[Niya]

The problem is, it's very hard to ridicule the thought without also ridiculing the person. After all, if they put the thought forwards with sincerity, then everybody who says the idea is stupid is effectively saying that the person is stupid.

Hmmm. I kinda disagree. I mean I get what you're saying but I don't think it's that hard to separate the ideas from the person. Just look at me and Olaf. We've been fighting like cats and dogs over VB6 vs VB.Net for years, yet in all that time, I can't think of a single time either of us made it personal. Sure it got heated at times but I don't recall ever feeling like I was being personally attacked or degraded by him and I hope I didn't make him feel that way either. I believe all ideas can be debated with the same level of civility towards one another.

So far, people in this thread have called me insane, deluded, and other things. Funky was asked not to fact check, and we've both been asked not to participate. I'm not sure how else that can be seen other than a fairly polite request that there be no debate or disagreement with whatever is put forwards.

Yea, I agree it's a tad too far. I disagree with some of the things you said in this thread but I wouldn't go so far as to tell you stuff like that. Overall I think this discussion is healthy though and I'm hoping we learn to do better in dealing with those we disagree with.

[Niya]

They come back with the "we need to get back to normal" comment.

I have no facts or anything to back this up. It's just my opinion but I have a very strong feeling that things are never going back to the way they were before. At the very least, not for a very very long time.

The pandemic has been going on for 2 years now with all kinds of fuss being made about it, yet it's actual effect on my life has been practically non-existent. I've only lost 1 person, a childhood friend, to Covid. Something doesn't feel right about this whole thing.

[Niya]

Quebec scraps planned tax on the unvaccinated

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ixed-1.6334828

a small victory, and its all thanks to the protesters.
good work guys!

The idea of taxing the unvaccinated makes me sick to my stomach. Don't get me wrong, I'm more or less indifferent to the idea of vaccination. Take it or don't take it, it's all the same me but these kinds of coercive methods rub against something so deep in my soul it literally makes me want to break something just thinking about it.

[baka]

[*] They come back with the "we need to get back to normal" comment.

I need to answer that as well.
it can not go back to normal.
the trust it broken completely. at least for the people that "believe" in the "agenda".
it is impossible to trust government, health care system, pharmacies, media, big companies, UN, WHO etc.

to restore trust, if that is even possible. something big need to happen.
a cleansing of everything corrupted.

if instead they are able to get away with this, excuses or try to bury evidences etc,
it will only mean the retribution will happen later. and it will grow in volume.

so, right now, at least for me, I can not see any solution. I don't know how we can go back and forget. and I can't see how we gonna fix this without causing war and destruction as I dont think the people behind all this will just capitulate.

[Schmidt]

I've begun to wonder if the COVID denial movement in all its aspects isn't engineered ...

Sure... there is an original-document, where Goebbels (the Nazi-propaganda-chef)
has described the process of "taking control of the population" (don't remember it exactly anymore, having read it a decade ago or so) as:
- induce fear (no matter which one really, but "losing your live, or livelihood" are good ideas)
- and introduce a "not in-significantly sized group-target", which could make "that fear come true"
...(in nazi-germany it was "the jews" - often shop-owners, bankers, money-lenders, shortly after the "great recession")

And what's then left is only (referring to the Hitler-Bible, "Mein Kampf", which told anyone all about these "superior german genes"):
- to make "the larger group feel superior"
- and to punish any dissidents (in the early years, often members of the communist party) draconically
..(using some "Reichstags-Brand-incentives"), via the GESTAPO, "backed up" by snitches in "the clean group")

All the rest will fall into place automatically.

Olaf

[Niya]

I'm skeptical, but it is encouraging to see Bari Weiss on Bill Maher express frustration with the pandemic and the governments response.

You also have people who have had the initial two vaccines as well as the booster who still caught delta or omicron that feel lied to. You also have people who had the initial two vaccines because they were sold that normalcy would return only to reject the booster because they felt lied to.

You also have cities and countries around the world dropping mandates. The latest two I saw were the UK and the city of Denver, CO. dropping their mask mandates.

Call it youthfulness or naivety, but while the current measures seem bleak I'm enthusiastic about the future.

A prominent leader in my country threatened to overthrow the government if they didn't end the lockdowns we had here last year. The government ended the lockdowns shortly after. Whether it was because of the threats or because it was already going to be ended at the time it did anyway is anyone's guess. Since then, life here is almost like it was before, but not quite. We still have to wear masks and there are safe zones being enforced. However, my country men are an unruly bunch. It's pretty normal for people here to push the boundaries of what we are allowed to do and depending on the community and the location of specific events, the law would look the other way or not care to enforce mandates. So life is kinda back to normal here.

[wes4dbt]

But progress has been made. For example, even though I was always distrustful of mainstream media, I didn't learn until reading some of the posts in this thread that there were so many nefarious things being driven by the pandemic. You will never get everyone to agree on anything but if you can win even one person over to whatever side you fall on, it should be considered a victory. That's one extra person on your side that you didn't have yesterday. That's one extra person who is there in your camp that would not have been there had the discussion not been allowed to happen.

But that has nothing to do with what I quoted,

Allowing it to be debated and discussed would quickly reveal if such ideas have merit or if they are indeed nonsense.

Has the ideas that have merit or that are indeed nonsense been quickly revealed? No.

[Niya]

But that has nothing to do with what I quoted,



Has the ideas that have merit or that are indeed nonsense been quickly revealed? No.

What I'm trying to allude to is that it's a work in progress that takes one person at a time. I mentioned chattel slavery in an earlier conversation with Eduardo. It took like what, centuries for the world the finally understand that the chain and whip were unnecessarily barbaric. It doesn't happen over night but that doesn't mean that the conversation should not need to happen.

It will be a very long time before one side or another in this specific discussion would win out. It's a slow process.

Also, really dumb ideas would be quickly revealed.

[wes4dbt]

What I'm trying to allude to is that it's a work in progress that takes one person at a time. I mentioned chattel slavery in an earlier conversation with Eduardo. It took like what, centuries for the world the finally understand that the chain and whip were unnecessarily barbaric. It doesn't happen over night but that doesn't mean that the conversation should not need to happen.

It will be a very long time before one side or another in this specific discussion would win out. It's a slow process.

You keep ignoring what you said. It's becoming comical.

Allowing it to be debated and discussed would quickly reveal if such ideas have merit or if they are indeed nonsense.

Now it's a slow process.

[Niya]

You keep ignoring what you said. It's becoming comical.



Now it's a slow process.

Yea I can see how what I'm said is confusing. I didn't express it clearly. Let me see if I can make it clear what I was trying to say.

I was talking about the moderation of discussion and whether or not people should be silenced for dissenting or controversial views. When I said dumb ideas would be quickly revealed, I was thinking about really dumb ideas that most people would agree would be dumb. I was trying to say that even really ridiculous ideas should not be moderated out of the conversation because if they are indeed that stupid, everyone would just dogpile onto it and ridicule it right out of the conversation very quickly. In my view this is preferable to having a moderator just stop the discussion. This is what my thoughts were when I wrote that.

Now when it comes to ideas that are not outright outlandish, this is the slow process. It can become a back-and-forth that may go on for years. These are the real fruitful discussions that need to be allowed to happen.

One of my personal flaws is an inability to completely express my thoughts as written word. I apologize for that and I will make an effort to be more careful with how my thoughts translate into actual words. It's something still I'm learning how to do. I have so many thoughts in my head, a lot of which I can't even say because if I use the wrong words, it could lead to a lot of misunderstandings. The ability to convert my thoughts into a series of easily digestible and unambiguous statements is not a talent I have so bear with me.

[Niya]

@wes4dbt

Allowing it to be debated and discussed would quickly reveal if such ideas have merit or if they are indeed nonsense.

I just recalled exactly what I was thinking when I wrote this.

If an idea is presented one of two things will happen. Either the idea will be ripped apart by everyone or it will create a divide that will be discussed and debated for years like this Covid discussion. Which of these two things would happen, happens very quickly. In other words, the direction of the discussion would let you know if the idea is nonsense or not. The fact that this thread has gone on for 135 pages tells us that there is some merit here. If on the other hand this thread died at page 2, then it's very likely that what was being discussed was nonsense or at the very least, not even worth discussing because everyone would have already been on the same page.

The slow progress I was talking about was actually referring to what happens when an idea produces a divisive discussion, ie 135 pages instead of 2.

Does this make more sense?