Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[FunkyDexter]

I say to you now it's because no one wants to think critically.

The thing is, most of what's happening in this thread isn't critical thinking.

I'm all for challenging main stream science. In fact the ongoing challenge is a critical function of science. It's what separates science from religion as far as belief systems are concerned. But that's not just a case of coming up with a different idea and saying "this is how it is". It requires scientific rigour.

Without that what we have is simple grand standing and it's dangerous. It leads to bad conclusions that, in turn, lead to bad outcomes. People die needlessly.

Mark my words:...

^What he said + 1^

[Shaggy Hiker]

https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._and_microRNAs

Thank you for providing a paper. I've been looking through it. There's some good stuff in there, but a whole lot of chaff. I'd expect a bit of editing before any final paper emerged, if it ever does. After all, they go off on tangents that seem suspiciously unrelated to COVID, but highly related to the interests of one of the co-authors. I'm not saying that those digressions are wrong, just that they are irrelevant and should have been excluded. For example, there's a bunch of discussion about cancer signaling pathways, and the discovery of a certain chemical (unrelated to COVID, even according to the paper) in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. They don't even suggest that those are related to COVID.

However, I have some doubts that the paper will ever make it to print. This is an amazing age we live in. When I was in school, if you had a citation list, you had days or weeks of work ahead of you, tracking down the citations. If you had access to a good research library, you could find things in whatever journals they subscribed to (the larger the library, the more subscriptions, but nobody has them all). For those citations that they didn't subscribe to, you'd have to get a loan. No longer, though. I found two statements I wanted to look into further, and Google was able to provide the cited paper.

And when I looked...well, for both of the statements, the research didn't quite support the way the citation was used. For example, if you look at this quote:

Furthermore,the overwhelming impetus for cells to perform a single and artificial approach to translation according to the robust capping and synthetic methylations of mRNAs in vaccines is fundamentally associated with disease progression due to differential rather than normal signaling of pattern recognition receptors (PRRs) [69]

That looks quite impressive, but does the citation support that statement? Well, no, it really doesn't speak about that much at all. Here's the article that was cited:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5218996/

If you look through it, it's about how cells recognize self versus viral RNA and mechanisms around that. It's pretty dense reading, but does it really have anything to do with the line where it was cited? It might be argued to have something to do with it, since it has to do with pattern recognition receptors, but it doesn't even speak to the more alarmist parts of the statement.

A bit more disturbingly, you have this example:

Consistent with other studies, they found thatSTAT2 and IRF7 were significantly downregulated 28 days after vaccination, indicative of impaired typeI IFN responses. They wrote: “Together, these data suggested that after vaccination, at least by day 28,other than generation of neutralizing antibodies, people’s immune systems, including those of lymphocytesand monocytes, were perhaps in a more vulnerable state.” [52].

Now, this is a direct quote from a paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3), but is it accurate? Well, they left out this OTHER direct quote from the abstract of the paper:

Moreover, scRNA-seq revealed increased NF-κB signaling and reduced type I interferon responses, which were confirmed by biological assays and also had been reported to occur after SARS-CoV-2 infection with aggravating symptoms.

In other words: Yes, these things happen from the vaccine...because these things also happen from the virus itself. which was stated more clearly elsewhere in the abstract:

Similar changes had also been reported in COVID-19 patients, suggesting that vaccination mimicked an infection.

Which is exactly what would be expected. So, the paper you cited is pointing out potentially bad things that the vaccine is doing, when those same bad things are being done by the virus, a point that they notably left out even when it was in their citations.

I chose those two because the statements seemed quite definitive and significant. In the first case, the citation barely spoke about a few words in the claim they were making, and was silent on the claim itself. It wasn't a proper citation. In the second case, while they included a quote that was on point, they left out some crucial information from the same paper that would have undercut their hypothesis.

0 for 2 is a bad start. I would expect that a bunch of their citations are entirely correct, as a bunch of them are totally non-controversial, but considering that track record, I'm not entirely sure.

[baka]

its a pre-print and need more work.
even so, to work in the blind is not easy. it would be easier if big pharma would reveal the vaccine documents.

and its not that big pharma is perfect either. if you need that accuracy, wheres the same critical observation to the real thing?

right now we have:
- nothing from big pharma except they want us to trust them
- a lot of professors all around the world that try to understand whats going on.

the latter is like this paper. 4 scientist/doctors working together to understand the process.
the same with others as well, as I posted here, the German pathology and other doctors if you would watch the videos.

but, no matter what I post, you are very good to discredit it.
and I would appreciate it a lot, and also admire you, if you also did that with the vaccine.

right now you are believing in something without giving any scrutiny but you go deep to find anything that could make it "bad" to whatever source that actually try to figure it out.

so, you stand is this:
- I don't believe in anything until someone figure it out, and if so, I will just buy it and place myself there.

well. guess what. while you are comfortable in your spot, a lot of people are dying of malpractice. a lot of people are getting sick from the vaccine, and tons of people lost their job.

that you don't even care about the early treatment protocol that doctors couldn't use, tells me, do you care at all about life? you think that hundreds of thousands that could have been saved, they deserve it?
because you government decided to "stop" the treatments. people got nothing and only used the ventilators that can cause tissue damage.

so you think all doctors that actually decided to "not" follow that decision and instead give the patient medicine, that showed result, that they deserved to get fired?
since you believe in the government and the vaccine.

the last post I uploaded a youtube about this doctor, that is actually what Im talking about.
do you even care? or u will just use your "defense mechanism" and say: its fake news.

[FunkyDexter]

a lot of people are dying of malpractice. a lot of people are getting sick from the vaccine

Except that there's no credible evidence of this, that's the problem your argument faces. Whereas the evidence of excess deaths that could have been prevented by more extensive vaccination is overwhelming. If the data actually indicated that vaccinations were causing more deaths than it was preventing I know my position would change... but it doesn't indicate that.

Here's a breakdown from the Office for National Statistics. This is the official Governmental statistical body for the UK. They are party independent. Note the following table:-

Note the drop off between death rates between the unvaccinated and those who had received a double vaccine.

Your posts are dripping with the implication that we don't care if people die. The opposite is true but we are basing our opinions on how to best achieve that on actual data.

[baka]

you are still not addressing early treatments that where banned.
and faulty testing methods that showed more death, with all the people died "with" and not "because" of covid.
that will invalidate everything you show.

I think thats the problem. you are believing in the honestly of the system
while I see corruption and manipulation of data. this to force the agenda to create a mass-vaccination campaign when it was not needed.

if I where to see your side, that I believe in my government (very hard to do, they lie all the time) I would also be critical to anything that says otherwise.

now, lets assume you are right. the government is honest.
how can you explain the hundreds of thousands of people around the world protesting, doing research, telling the media is hiding the truth, doctors telling they where fired because they didnt comply, and more and more.
theres so much. if you are right, what does this mean? you suggest all this people are lying?

just check australia, I follow a person that show many videos of people there. and its the same story we have in usa, germany and other countries.
is still coordination? who is behind all this BS?

it seems its contraproductive. all this people are not getting anything positive doing this. except some youtuber getting some clicks.
but the enormous amount of work to do all that, for some clicks? Im sure theres better things they can do.

and how come theres so many politicians, doctors, scientist, nurses, etc that are part of this "conspiracy"?

I would believe you if this is just one country and a few channels. I would say. ok, I can not find anything anywhere else. why are they saying this?

how do you explain this?

[FunkyDexter]

you are still not addressing early treatments that where banned

Which ones? Are we back onto hydroxychloroquine? I've already addressed that one. Or do you want to propose another? There's currently people touting that you can drink your own urine. Care to try it?

with all the people died "with" and not "because" of covid.

That's why we look at excess deaths, it removes the doubt.

how can you explain the hundreds of thousands of people around the world protesting, doing research, telling the media is hiding the truth, doctors telling they where fired because they didnt comply

Simple, some of them are miss-leading because they are seeking profit or prominence. The rest are simply misled. You fall into the second category.

[baka]

fine.

you are superior. your intelligence and wisdom are on another level.
us, the lower species we don't understand. its too complicated for us.
we should worship you, as you are using your brain fully.

we will follow you. you are the most intelligent being in the universe.
nothing can compare. u have the answer to everything. you are our god.

[wqweto]

fine.

you are superior. your intelligence and wisdom are on another level.
us, the lower species we don't understand. its too complicated for us.
we should worship you, as you are using your brain fully.

we will follow you. you are the most intelligent being in the universe.
nothing can compare. u have the answer to everything. you are our god.

This escalated into a cult way too quickly :-))

cheers,
</wqw>

[Niya]

My gut tells me to eat pizza.

However, yeah, my gut, my education, my experience with vaccinations, my experience with pandemics, all tells me that what is being covered in the mainstream is at least mostly right. The inability of the other side to come up with a coherent message, the problem that they can't come up with anything other than Youtube videos to support their cases, and when they use official data they misstate it, doesn't give me any confidence that they even have the basis for a solid argument.

Then explain to me how it is that this pandemic has been happening for 2 years now and I've heard of every vaccine from Johnson and Johnson to Pfizer but I never heard of Ivermectin until yesterday? What's that about? Are the stats behind Ivermectin made up?

Mark my words: We've been there for over two centuries. We're getting better, not worse. We're just doing it slowly. Every generation is better than the last, but that's what it seems to take. Yeah, there might be some mild discrimination over pronouns. When you consider that it was only a few decades back where you could get assaulted or murdered for your beliefs, the color of your skin, the church you attended, and so on, with the full expectation that your attackers would be exonerated, that's not so bad. Go back a century, and your attackers would be celebrated.

You raise a good point here. However, let me bring it into focus a little bit. Average people haven gotten better. Your neighbors aren't going to kill you for worshiping a different god in 2021 and yes, this is far better than what we've had in the past. However, rulers(not just the government but powerful corporations too) have not changed. In fact, a good argument can be made that they have gotten far worse. In the past, their conquests were violent and genocidal you are right but just because they aren't doing that as much anymore doesn't mean they are sugar and spice and everything nice.

You think you know history, but the US is all about pretending our history didn't happen, and you're joining in. We created a lot of the economic problems in the Caribbean nations today, but you don't have to go very far back to find where we would have just come in and slaughtered people (though the ability to slaughter was less than it is today in terms of bodies/day). Now you have to look for the subtle effects of the invisible hand. A hundred years back, it would have been neither subtle nor invisible. You have the luxury to speculate on secretive conspiracies. You didn't use to have that option. We're getting better, and at this pace, perhaps our grandchildren will get there.

Ask the people of Iraq if the invasion of their country by the US was invisible. Ask the people of Libya if the so called "intervention" by NATO was invisible. I'm sure no innocent hard working average people died in these countries as a result of these invasions. Right?

[baka]

https://tube.childrenshealthdefense....3-681a09c1259b

“A Call to Europe: The Future of Our Children is at Stake” - CHD Europe - Press Conference, Brussels January 23

Call for a European moratorium on health restrictions: the future of our children is at stake.

In the framework of the citizens' rally in Brussels organised on 23 January by Europeans United International, Children's Health Defense Europe organised a press conference with several speakers concerned by the current policy turn and the future that awaits our young generations, who have been constantly side-lined since the beginning of the crisis.

During the pandemic, most EU member states made far-reaching decisions, often blind to the health, physical and mental well-being of children and young people, putting political agendas and vested interests first.

Today, the European Union is considering continuing and centralising these measures imposed by the state of emergency, which have failed and caused so much damage, and which are also putting the young generation at unnecessary and exceptional risk, particularly through the imposition of masks and vaccination campaigns. It is time to change course and call for an immediate moratorium on this arsenal of obligations and restrictions that cannot offer a sustainable and humane future for society.

The panels of experts composed of internationally renowned lawyers, economists and doctors will review the impact of current policies on our society and in particular on its most fragile members.

Children's Health Defense Europe is an association chaired by attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. whose mission is to protect children's health by combating hazardous exposures, to defend their health rights and their fundamental rights in general.

[Shaggy Hiker]

its a pre-print and need more work.

Yes, but the writing wasn't bad. The edits I would suggest would be to remove chunks to tighten up the focus. I've seen a whole lot worse.

ight now we have:
- nothing from big pharma except they want us to trust them
- a lot of professors all around the world that try to understand whats going on.

One of the strengths in that paper, I felt, was a pretty detailed discussion about the challenges that the mRNA vaccine had to overcome and how that was accomplished. They actually have considerable information in there as to what the pharma companies did to make those. I knew about the general approaches, such as what had to be done to keep the body from breaking down the mRNA before it ever made the ribosome. I was slightly disappointed that they called that a defense, since it happens all the time, every day, in every cell, and to the mRNA created by the cell. Still, they laid it out pretty well, and the citations they had in that section would likely explain different parts in far more detail. Perhaps more detail than anybody would really ask the companies to provide, since science tends to be a series of failures leading to a success. Those citations would probably lay out the roadmap of issues that had to be overcome, and how they were overcome, while the the paper itself was mostly just mentioning the issues and going on.

but, no matter what I post, you are very good to discredit it.
and I would appreciate it a lot, and also admire you, if you also did that with the vaccine.

It's easier to throw stones, of course. That starts with a paper, though. You can't always find any faults with papers. As part of an exercise in grad school, we were tasked with finding papers (actual physical papers, in that case, since this was pre internet) and 'editing' them. Essentially, looking for weaknesses in the papers. I chose at random, and ended up with a paper about honeybee metabolism. The paper was flawless, which was astonishing. I then looked at the publishing notes (which won't exist for preprints, and might not exist for any online article). The paper had been accepted without revision. In other words: Even the professional editors and peer reviewers couldn't find anything to complain about, and it's their job to complain about things. You almost never see that.

I then went on to review a series of other papers by the same author. That guy was quite the writer, I'd say. Learned a bit about bee metabolism, too.

Still, if you have a paper on vaccines, I'll take a look. It's kind of a fun exercise, though a bit morbid.

so, you stand is this:
- I don't believe in anything until someone figure it out, and if so, I will just buy it and place myself there.

I wish. If I understand you right, that might be something to aspire to, but I'm not there. I have opinions, just like you do. If something supports my opinions, I will dig less deeply.

well. guess what. while you are comfortable in your spot, a lot of people are dying of malpractice. a lot of people are getting sick from the vaccine, and tons of people lost their job.

That's mostly regional. I'm not covinced that anybody is getting sick from the vaccine, but when it comes to losing your job, and every other economic impact, you do have to remember that the US is really an outlier in that area. We're in a pretty different situation from most of the rest of the world due to the whopping stimulus packages that got passed. We have problems you don't have, but we don't have problems you do have, as well.

so you think all doctors that actually decided to "not" follow that decision and instead give the patient medicine, that showed result, that they deserved to get fired?
since you believe in the government and the vaccine.

Many of our problems arose before the vaccine.

[Shaggy Hiker]

you are still not addressing early treatments that where banned.
and faulty testing methods that showed more death, with all the people died "with" and not "because" of covid.
that will invalidate everything you show.

That isn't true, as has been covered repeatedly. The excess deaths in the US and the UK show that something was killing lots of people in both places. If it wasn't COVID, what was it? Can't be vaccines, the data predates the development. Can't be 'delayed treatment', because it's FAR too high, and there doesn't appear to have been much in the US.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Then explain to me how it is that this pandemic has been happening for 2 years now and I've heard of every vaccine from Johnson and Johnson to Pfizer but I never heard of Ivermectin until yesterday? What's that about? Are the stats behind Ivermectin made up?

Explain it? I can barely believe it. I've been hearing about Ivermectin since early on. It didn't come first, that was the hydroxy...whatever, can't spell it, but you probably know what I mean.

Ivermectin isn't as wacky as some of the ideas, and there are plenty of studies that suggest that it works. There are also plenty of studies that suggest that it has no impact. I listed a series of metaanalysis studies (summaries of many other studies) in a reply to Eduardo a page or two back. What I was looking for when I found those metaanalysis studies was one particular one (that I was unable to track down, so I tossed the magazine it was in) that showed that studies conducted in areas where a certain parasite was found showed Ivermectin was effective, while studies where the parasite was not found showed no effect. Why that would be wasn't clear, but Ivermectin does a whole lot of different things, and so do parasites, so it's not out of the question.

You raise a good point here. However, let me bring it into focus a little bit. Average people haven gotten better. Your neighbors aren't going to kill you for worshiping a different god in 2021 and yes, this is far better than what we've had in the past. However, rulers(not just the government but powerful corporations too) have not changed. In fact, a good argument can be made that they have gotten far worse. In the past, their conquests were violent and genocidal you are right but just because they aren't doing that as much anymore doesn't mean they are sugar and spice and everything nice.

Fair enough. You've likely noticed that the more people you kill, the longer your name lingers in history. You don't tend to hear much about William The Pretty Effective Manager.

Hopefully, as the people get better, the pool that produces the leaders will improve, but I'd agree with you if you said that doesn't appear to be happening.

Ask the people of Iraq if the invasion of their country by the US was invisible. Ask the people of Libya if the so called "intervention" by NATO was invisible. I'm sure no innocent hard working average people died in these countries as a result of these invasions. Right?

I was specifically talking about the Caribbean. We used to invade down there a whole lot. We've only done so a couple times in the last few decades, and then with little bloodshed.

The US is certainly a work in progress, and plenty more work remains to be done, but we were unrepentant. Now, things come to light, people agree that they were wrong, things bend in the right direction. Lot more to be done, but it's hard not to imagine that there wouldn't be a whole lot more glowing wastelands had the US figured out the atomic bomb in the late 1800s rather than 1940s.

That's why I'm saying it's generational. We aren't good, but we're moving that way. Not those of us alive, though, it's just that our children will be better than us, their children will be better than them...and there's no guarantee that it will keep moving in that direction. The European dark ages were dark for a reason. They could come again.

[baka]

I feel I repeat myself.
here in sweden we had around 6000 "covid death" (2020)
if we compare to death rates/year average etc.

the thing is, it was a wipe of old and sick people.
when the pandemic started it was like the whole system-care stopped.
doctors didnt visit the old, they cut a lot of appointment etc.

in the first few months we had thousands of death, and only from elderly homes.
but covid in the population was almost non-existent.
similar to Italy, it was a total wipe of old people.

it was like a coordinated attack against them.
and it was very strange, how it could find its way to all the elderly homes while
most people didnt get sick.

like the US, they didnt allow any treatment. they told people "go home"
and a lot did. the most usual response was: I was sick a couple of days and after that I got well
but suddenly after 1 week, I started to get worse, couldn't breath. (its the spike protein reaction that nobody knew)
anyway, most people didnt get help, and the few that got help they did give them respirator.
but nothing else. a lot of people died, because of malpractice.
the doctors couldn't examine the patient because of "restrictions", so they all follow the same protocol.
instead of examine the patient and give them the right medication. that of course was banned if any doctor even had that thought .

I see that first year, 2020 of really bad decisions that killed so many people.
and to not forget, the health system was bad already, lots of cuts everywhere.

in 2021, things got better. but I dont believe it was the vaccine that helped us.
I believe it was coordinated to go that way, to give space to the vaccine.

if they allowed early treatments, everything would have been different.
many people would have given that medicine instead of letting them die.

right now, they tell u, take the booster. it will protect you.
meanwhile, most vaccinated are sick right now. Omicron is bypassing it all, protects nothing.
even so, they are not removing the covid-passports, its still restrictions, they are still asking to give the vaccine to kids.
no logic.

yes, as you seems to be logical and quite smart, I ask you. whats your take on this.
why are the government still imposing boosters and want the children to take it.
and I think you understand about the immune-system and that kids are stronger right?

also, when in history have we forced kids to protect the old? it should be the way around
and if we have already vaccinated all the old, whats the point to mass vaccinate all the kids?
and we know that u can still infect even if you are vaccinated.

(also, for more info, no kids died first year. and if any died they where sick, like cancer or something severe that killed them, and almost no kids died the second year either, not even sure any kid died at all from covid)

and new studies also show that people that gets sick, also create a better immune-system against future covid mutations. so its preferable to just let the kids get sick. especially now when Omicron is not that strong.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I feel I repeat myself.
here in sweden we had around 6000 "covid death" (2020)
if we compare to death rates/year average etc.

the thing is, it was a wipe of old and sick people.
when the pandemic started it was like the whole system-care stopped.
doctors didnt visit the old, they cut a lot of appointment etc.

in the first few months we had thousands of death, and only from elderly homes.
but covid in the population was almost non-existent.
similar to Italy, it was a total wipe of old people.

One of the problems is that everybody knows their own country, and every country had a different experience.

it was like a coordinated attack against them.
and it was very strange, how it could find its way to all the elderly homes while
most people didnt get sick.

I don't see why you find that strange. Elderly homes tend to have a bunch of people with other issues, indoors. The first wave was in the summer, when most people were not all that confined, but those in elderly homes were.

like the US, they didnt allow any treatment. they told people "go home"
and a lot did. the most usual response was: I was sick a couple of days and after that I got well
but suddenly after 1 week, I started to get worse, couldn't breath. (its the spike protein reaction that nobody knew)
anyway, most people didnt get help, and the few that got help they did give them respirator.
but nothing else. a lot of people died, because of malpractice.
the doctors couldn't examine the patient because of "restrictions", so they all follow the same protocol.
instead of examine the patient and give them the right medication. that of course was banned if any doctor even had that thought .

The US health care system is far from monolithic. Each state, and in most states, regions within the state, have quite different health care. A blanket statement about the whole country is going to be wrong.

right now, they tell u, take the booster. it will protect you.
meanwhile, most vaccinated are sick right now. Omicron is bypassing it all, protects nothing.
even so, they are not removing the covid-passports, its still restrictions, they are still asking to give the vaccine to kids.
no logic.

Those are different things. The vaccine doesn't appear to protect you from getting COVID, but does greatly reduce the chance of you getting seriously ill.

As for the passports, that's driven by a different mechanism. I suspect you will find that no politician loses more than they gain by taking action, even if the action is useless or wrong.

and I think you understand about the immune-system and that kids are stronger right?

The last half of that isn't always right, though generally true. At first, kids barely have an immune system. Then they are relatively strong, but you have to keep in mind that the Spanish Flu killed primarily people in the prime of life, while generally sparing the elderly. There are speculations as to why that was, such as that an earlier flu had provided some immunity, but that was a long time ago.

also, when in history have we forced kids to protect the old? it should be the way around
and if we have already vaccinated all the old, whats the point to mass vaccinate all the kids?
and we know that u can still infect even if you are vaccinated.

Politics. I don't think there is one reason. I think there are several, depending on the region. I'd say that the reason in Chicago is decidedly different from the reasons in the rest of the US. The reasons in this state probably vary by county...and by household. Though you have to keep in mind that there is no mandate, and this state has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country, still, so the reasons here are basically up to the parents, and vary by household.

and new studies also show that people that gets sick, also create a better immune-system against future covid mutations. so its preferable to just let the kids get sick. especially now when Omicron is not that strong.

I agree, but anything that creates cover to keep them in school I'm tending to favor, at this point. The harm of keeping them out of school definitely outweighs the harm of COVID. That's largely where the fight is at in the US, as far as I can tell.

[dilettante]

The Ins and Outs of Omicron

Bottom line? We need to update our vaccine formulas. Yes, getting vaxxed and boosted with what is on hand is still by far the best way to prevent deaths and hospitalizations. But we can do better. One of the beautiful things about the new mRNA technology is that techs can update the formula in a matter of days, and alter production runs within a couple of months. The firms that manufacture the mRNA formulas – Pfizer and Moderna – suggest that by April we can be churning out updated formulas that use Omicron as the baseline (as opposed to the original Wuhan version). If past proves prologue, we could get back to the heady days of May 2021 when we had a platinum-standard vaccine formula that provided something very close to sterilizing immunity. That’d be awesome.

It won’t last of course. America’s anti-vax community will remain millions strong, ensuring an ample supply of walking petri dishes Omicron can use to breed the next generation of coronavirus. But armed with a vaccine based on Omicron rather than Wuhan, we’d only be a single generation behind rather than three. That’s still a win. And a big one at that.

[baka]

this Peter Zeihan dude don't have the facts right.

- all people, vaccinate and not are walking breed for next gen virus.
- as long the vaccination is not "stopping" the spread, it will still spread it around. as it do now, most people that are sick with omicron are the vaccinated.

another thing.
a lot of "anti-vax" (that I think is the wrong word) are actually people that recovered.
the immune-system of those people are much better than any vaccination. theres also studies showing that.
no point injecting that poison if your protection is above of any vaccination.

so, you should not follow this dude. as he spread misinformation and he seems to be quite stupid.

[Shaggy Hiker]

We need to do all we can to ensure that the next variant of COVID starts either in the US or somewhere in America (Mexico is doing their part, but Canada isn't really stepping up on this). After all, the next named variant would be Pi. The song darn near writes itself.

[sapator]

Yep that would be brilliant.
You started the virus as far as possible in China and they suspected you, now no one will suspect that the government is idiotic enough to start the virus in it's own turf.
I hope it's not named Pi aka Greek Π cuz you will be pronouncing it wrong it's not phay it's pe , sus-pi-cious , or , yes, pee . Having wrote that I suspect some people getting on my nerves with that Pi business....

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, we won't be pronouncing it right. We'll be pronouncing it with a long I: pie. Not sure what your phay is, and we CERTAINLY won't be pronouncing it pee.

[FunkyDexter]

I can't resist it:-
Peter Zeihan fact checked

theres also studies showing that.

Source?

[wes4dbt]

I can't resist it:-
Peter Zeihan fact checked





Source?

That link sent me to some kind of strange ERRROR page. Looked pretty sketchy.

[baka]

routers don't care about fact checking this idiot.
because even if he is totally wrong, he is praising the vaccines like its gods work.
as you know they only fact check people that are actually saying anything against their agenda.
if this is not obvious, how can you call yourself an intelligent person.

come on, that is quite common knowledge. ridiculous to even need a source for that.

[wes4dbt]

as you know they only fact check people that are actually saying anything against their agenda.
if this is not obvious, how can you call yourself an intelligent person.

come on, that is quite common knowledge. ridiculous to even need a source for that.

No, I don't know that. You claim "their agenda" is a conspiracy involving the politicians, pharma, scientist, media ..... is common knowledge. But even with all of your digging you can't provide any substantiated evidence. When asked for a source your answer is to question that persons intelligence. Which makes you look even less creditable.

[baka]

no, the common knowledge was not that,
but about a recovered persons immune-system is better than a vaccinated person. and Funky wanted a source for that.

if u want to butt in, you also need to know what we are talking about.
I was answering Funky, not you.

and about that.
I know already the answer.
and right now I don't care anymore about trying to make you understand.
you already decided to follow the narrative.
for me what you are doing is a terrible thing. but I understand you don't see it, instead believe that me and many others are just idiots believing in a conspiracy.
I have watched hundreds of hours of material. so for me its not strange at all. its quite obvious, while for you its impossible. you don't believe it one bit.
so we are on opposite sides. and I dont care one bit anymore if you are in the wrong side. its your own responsibility. not mine.

[wes4dbt]

no, the common knowledge was not that,
but about a recovered persons immune-system is better than a vaccinated person. and Funky wanted a source for that.

if u want to butt in, you also need to know what we are talking about.
I was answering Funky, not you.

I was speaking to your constant claim of "their agenda".

if u want to butt in, you also need to know what we are talking about.

Your wrong. I don't need to know what I'm talking about. If that was a forum rule this thread would be much much shorter. lol

[FunkyDexter]

That link sent me to some kind of strange ERRROR page. Looked pretty sketchy.

You mean a 404 page not found

(ie My fact check turned up nothing. He's not an expert in the field - he's an economist - but he hasn't shoved out a load of miss-information either)

If that was a forum rule this thread would be much much shorter.

True dat.

[baka]

haha. u are even defending him. hilarious.
but its what Professor Mattias Desmet - Mass Formation Psychosis is talking about

https://rumble.com/vs9i5e-professor-...psychosis.html

you can not even see it. even defending this person that is all over the place.
come on. try again.
if you want to be this "fact check" master. do a better job.

I mean, are your only source, fact checker sites?

[dilettante]

He's not an expert in the field - he's an economist - but he hasn't shoved out a load of miss-information either

I don't think he claimed expertise either though. For example trying to parlay a corrrespondence school degree in residential black mold removal and grocery bagging into eminence in virology and epidemiology.

[Shaggy Hiker]

haha. u are even defending him. hilarious.

you can not even see it. even defending this person that is all over the place.
come on. try again.
if you want to be this "fact check" master. do a better job.

I mean, are your only source, fact checker sites?

Defending him? You might want to re-read that post. It wasn't defending him. If there's no commentary on somebody then there's no commentary on them.

However, I did go back through the thread cause I was wondering where this guy came into it. I see it was from a link that Dil posted.

I'd like to see those papers that show that recovered people are more resistant than vaccinated. Since Omicron is able to re-infect, I doubt that there's all that much difference, but I'd still be interested in the papers on the subject.

I also found the one about drinking your own urine. I had overlooked the significance of that one, at first. That sounds like the most awesome practical joke I've ever heard of: You get a bunch of alternative medicine people following you, then you get them to do something generally harmless, but ridiculous and gross...and see how many do it.

[baka]

shaggy.
is this forum the only source for your covid information?
with that critical mind you have, and also that objective eye, I wonder,
how can you even ask me such thing.
its basic biology. I dont even need to make a search because its too basic for that.
but I think you can do a simple google search if you want to read it up.

the immune-system, is so much more.
and its still impossible to replace, because of its complexity.

the immune-system "remembers" and also have many cells working, its not just 1-dimensional, like a vaccine is. and its false, as u stated earlier in this thread that a vaccine creates the same response. its so wrong.

and its not my job to teach you about that.
and I also feel that you will not believe anything anyway. so come back when u know more about your own immune-system. for right now Im quite disappointed. u are so good discredit when u dont even know about this simple matter.

[baka]

so that u will not start asking for source.
I found one for you
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...676-9/fulltext
but its not my job to educate you.

[sapator]

Not sure what your phay is, and we CERTAINLY won't be pronouncing it pee.

Emm, you should if you had a proper language
In Greek to say Pi would be written like "ΠΑΪ" not Π or ΠΙ that is the correct. Or course your pi is actually peye, such as popeye, so either peye or pi has the same pronunciation, we don't do that, we got they I,Y,H,EI,OI as (I's) for that. Apparently some random Roman decided that those would be anti I's and fraked up everything creating gibberish , sorry about that, blame the Italians.

[PlausiblyDamp]

the immune-system "remembers" and also have many cells working, its not just 1-dimensional, like a vaccine is. and its false, as u stated earlier in this thread that a vaccine creates the same response. its so wrong.

So what do you believe a vaccine does then? This is a genuine question as I honestly want to know what you believe a vaccine does that makes you believe

it is so wrong

A vaccine is designed to trigger your immune system and have it develop this memory (T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes are specifically part of this memory process), depending on the type of vaccine (live, inactivated, etc.) they may trigger the immune system in a slightly different way - but ultimately they trigger the immune system.

[PlausiblyDamp]

so that u will not start asking for source.
I found one for you
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...676-9/fulltext
but its not my job to educate you.

If that is to support your claim that recovering from Covid gives increased protection compared to vaccines I am not sure it really does that. There is a reference to an observational study in Israel that did seem to indicate a greater risk of breakthrough infections regarding the Delta variant after a vaccine but the referenced study https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.21262415v1 is a pre-print, hasn't been peer reviewed and shouldn't be used to guide clinical practice.

The article focuses on immunity after having Covid and makes no real comparisons regarding vaccines and Covid recovery differences, also from that very article...

There are still looming questions surrounding the strength and duration of such protection compared with that from vaccination.

Acquired immunity from vaccination is certainly much safer and preferred.

In fact at best they say

policy makers should consider recovery from previous SARS-CoV-2 infection equal to immunity from vaccination for purposes related to entry to public events, businesses, and the workplace, or travel requirements.

which doesn't indicate superiority of prior infection, just that prior infection should be considered equivalent to a vaccine.

[baka]

again. its basic stuff.

the immune-system is like a cascade of things.
its not just inside the blood. its the whole mechanism, from the part you get infected, to the out layers that reach, and all the complicated mechanism to start the process of defense.

the immune-system is also layers. its not just 1 cell. its the whole that is important here.
to compare, we could say that:

- your immune has been "learning and working" since your birth.
- your immune learn from each infection
- your immune is not specific, but efficient, so it can deal with mutations easily.

another thing is "time", if you get infected, but you are sick just ½ day, the immune system didnt get enough time to produce enough defense. so its important that you are sick at least 3-7 days. to get a fever is actually very important, your temperature need to raise to a certain level or it will not work as good.

the vaccine is like the elite army, specified in one tactics. bypassing a few steps and going directly into what it need to do (we are talking about the mrna vaccine now)
this is very efficient, but only for the specific virus. it will not work as well with mutations. also ,mrna will bypass a few steps, that are important for the immune system for durability.

that is why u need to take the vaccine more often, and more u use it more u need to take it.
sure they want to avoid take, creating a vaccine that u take 1 time a year. but its not out yet. right now its more a "4-month" for each one. your immune-system is quite weak without the vaccine.

but for someone that got infected, (theres a ongoing study in sweden) that showed that recovered had "a good amount" of antibodies after 1 year. and thats one the antibodies, the immune system is so much more, t-b-cells and other stuff that is protecting you.

also, corona is a virus that mutates all the time.
the best is to get sick naturally, so your immune-system is "updating".
we could say like windows. u get updates.
the vaccine is like installing a 3-month limited time antivirus program, without your windows gets updated.
so, that program works, but after 3 months u need to buy another one. while your windows never gets updated.

[baka]

u need to study immune-system and vaccination.
its basic biology.
its not that covid is something completely different.

sure the narrative wants you to take the vaccine, its the whole scam that I have been telling all the time.
but if you go back before covid, the world was something different.
now u all are virus-experts and believe in the narrative forgetting everything about how it was before.

anyway, I dont care if you want to suffer complications later on. its your own body.
as long you back off and do not tell what we should do, I dont give a rat ass about you.
thats the whole deal here. Im tired that you want to force people taking that poison.
if you want it take 100 shots. I dont care at all. but dont force it on someone else.

and as long u believe in the narrative u are also the enemy.

[Shaggy Hiker]

its basic biology. I dont even need to make a search because its too basic for that.
but I think you can do a simple google search if you want to read it up.

Yeah, you do, if only to prove you can.

the immune-system "remembers" and also have many cells working, its not just 1-dimensional, like a vaccine is. and its false, as u stated earlier in this thread that a vaccine creates the same response. its so wrong.

I'm not sure whether you are referring to a statement by me made yesterday, but if you were, you might also remember that I was quoting directly from a paper that had been misrepresented in a citation from a paper you had used as proof. In other words: It wasn't my statement.

and its not my job to teach you about that.

Boy, I sure am lucky.

u are so good discredit when u dont even know about this simple matter.

What simple matter? The immune system that you stated in this very post is so complex?

The argument that, "I don't have to back up my statements because anybody who doesn't agree with me is an idiot" is not nearly as compelling as you seem to think.

[baka]

basic in the sense that the immune-system will always be better to man made crap.
that is something I learned from school. so its basic.
to go deep into the mechanism, of course its complex. that is why I wrote "basic" and not "advanced"
or "expert" level. but the basic level is that.
while u think the vaccine is a good.

maybe the narrative is telling u that. but they want u to take it. its the whole scam here.
and u are not trying to fact check that at all.

[baka]

anyway as I wrote
do whatever u want. I dont give a crap.
do u really think that I care if you get complications?
no, its your life. not mine.

but the problem here is that u want to force that on others.
now they are forcing children to take it all around the world.
and its your fault.