Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[reexre]

100 years ago, the Chinese in the Qing Dynasty said that railway would cut China's dragon veins and affect China's national-luck. They destroyed railways everywhere. Those railways were built by the Qing government with the help of Westerners.

A hundred years later, Westerners live in modern civilization said that 5G caused the COVID-19, and they started burning 5G base-stations and antennas.

:-)
your example is a lot of fun. really.

I was just asking / asking myself some questions.

If it is true that little is known about 5G (it is obvious that those who have interests affect harmlessness.)
But until proven otherwise, this could be a contributing cause.

In the past there have also been funny cases opposite to yours. :-)






asbestos cement
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[dreammanor]

@Dreamanor, Just to be clear, I was highlighting the way the Chines are portrayed, not the way you actually are. The way you actually are is: pretty much the same as us. Not sure if that will have been clear, given the language barrier.

It doesn't matter, I don't mind the wrong description about China by others. I just clarify some facts from my perspective when I have time and feel bored.

In the process of fighting COVID-19, China's experience is not worth learning. Singapore seems to be doing the best job.

[reexre]

I add some other considerations.
Generally speaking, I wanted to make it clear that I'm not a fanatic advocate of conspiracy theories.
But these intrigue me.
About Covid, what makes me come up with (or at least take into consideration) strange stories is that there is very little certain plausible information.
There is (and there has been) a bit of chaos in the information. For example, here in Italy there was an "eminent" virologist who on February 2 publicly confirmed that in Italy there was a zero risk.
Informations / media say a thing and its opposite at the same time.

When I ask about 5G I obviously don't think that something was created on purpose, but that it could have gotten out of hand.
Can anyone point me to some scientific study / reliable sources [unrelated in any way with 5G industry] that speaks about health?

Electromagnetic fields have an effect on metal.
And I think it can also have it in the metals inside our body.
https://www.chop.edu/centers-program...ients/aluminum
BTW, Now I heard of another theory that speaks about EMF caused by sun (spikes waves)

However, I am not going to go into these discussions because they would be very long / infinite and everyone would adhere more or less to some (conspiracy or not) theory.

However, I always tend to be wary of the mainstream by my nature.

I think one thing to never forget is:

When someone, a (multinational) company, a leader, an authority, states / says some things or behaves in a certain way, the first thing we have to ask ourselves is WHY.
Why, or what does he have to gain in this action? what is its purpose?

This in my opinion is a rule that applies in all fields (but above all economic)

Why does this boy speak ill of the other? what does it gain?
Why does this guy make certain claims? who does he work for? by whom is he paid? is doing whose interests?

These are the kind of questions we should always ask ourselves.
(it happens almost instinctively to me)

Perhaps it is a widespread cultural heritage in Italy but when the authority says something there is immediately someone who does the opposite ... because we are a little naive. boyish, with the pros and cons. ("genetically" led to be wary of authorities)
Like when mom says to a child not to do a specific thing. Here is the first thing the baby does is just that. (or the opposite of the advice / rule given)
I believe that in Italy almost nobody is as loyal to the rules as a Swede.

Here is the end of the speech.
always ask yourself:
who does he get the money from?
who pays him?
what are his economic interests / objectives?

You see, some of you have just started quarantine / lockdown / (freedom) restrictive rules ... but ...
The first outbreaks in Italy date back to February 21,
The Venetian authorities canceled the last two days of the Venice Carnival. (23/25 February)
In my region of Italy, some measures started on March 1st, and the most restrictive ones started on March 7th.

So have an understanding .... I start to freak out! :-)

See you in a month

[TysonLPrice]

We were told that for a long time too. The reasoning now is, it's not to protect you from getting the virus, it to keep you from spreading the virus. They've found that the virus is being spread by people with no symptoms, so you need to threat everyone as if they have the virus. But I do think it would help some what from catching the virus and any way of improving the odd is a good thing. The problem is you can't buy any masks and I don't have scarfs. Though I do think I could ROCK that look!!!

Just think if this time last year you walked into a bank with a bandanna on ???

[Shaggy Hiker]

For example, here in Italy there was an "eminent" virologist who on February 2 publicly confirmed that in Italy there was a zero risk.

Yeah, we had people get this wrong, too. Most notably, it was our president, but there were others.

When I ask about 5G I obviously don't think that something was created on purpose, but that it could have gotten out of hand.
Can anyone point me to some scientific study / reliable sources [unrelated in any way with 5G industry] that speaks about health?

I'm not sure what you are saying. The US has essentially no 5G, but

I think one thing to never forget is:

When someone, a (multinational) company, a leader, an authority, states / says some things or behaves in a certain way, the first thing we have to ask ourselves is WHY.
Why, or what does he have to gain in this action? what is its purpose?

Certainly a good thing to keep in mind for all things.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

When I ask about 5G I obviously don't think that something was created on purpose, but that it could have gotten out of hand.
Can anyone point me to some scientific study / reliable sources [unrelated in any way with 5G industry] that speaks about health?

5G Has literally nothing to do with Chronovirus, it couldn't be more unrelated. These conspiracy theory's really annoy the hell out of me, anyone can just say anything they want. I could tell you Carrots caused Chronovirus and it would be just as valid as 5G causing it.

Chronovirus is a virus and if you know anything about virus's you know they are not caused by Microwaves !!!!

When someone, a (multinational) company, a leader, an authority, states / says some things or behaves in a certain way, the first thing we have to ask ourselves is WHY.

A certain amount of scepticism is healthy, but it worries me what people are sceptical about and why they are not more sceptical about random people on the internet with seemly no qualifications or even in some cases no sense at all just making stuff up they thinks sounds vaguely plausible and putting it out there as truth !!

Sources of information matter and expertise matters it's fine to want to question official sources but you can validate many of them with a bit of research and reading and finding out if there is a consensus out there on something, dont replace them with crackpot theories just because some block on Facebook you dont know says so !!

[Shaggy Hiker]

I hadn't actually heard the 5G theory until after that. Of all the possible conspiracy theories out there, that has got to be the most nuts. Carrots are actually FAR more plausible as a cause than 5G. After all, they are at least biological.

[TysonLPrice]

I hadn't actually heard the 5G theory until after that. Of all the possible conspiracy theories out there, that has got to be the most nuts. Carrots are actually FAR more plausible as a cause than 5G. After all, they are at least biological.

It is nonsense but part of the theory is the 5G waves heat your body up lowering your immune system making you more susceptible

[Shaggy Hiker]

Right, so fevers, which are a result of the immune response, are therefore crippling the immune response.

Does that explanation really make that nonsense more plausible?

[TysonLPrice]

Right, so fevers, which are a result of the immune response, are therefore crippling the immune response.

Does that explanation really make that nonsense more plausible?

I was pointing out the nonsensical nature of it...not agreeing in anyway.

[wes4dbt]

Wow, just read an article about people in the UK trying to burn down cell phone towers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/5...ories-n1177361

PT Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute" but now I'm starting to think that was an under estimate. I couldn't understand how Trump got elected but it's starting to make more sense now. Crazy!

[FunkyDexter]

When I read that I really wanted to prove your ridiculous hoax wrong... so I googled it... turns out it actually happened

[Shaggy Hiker]

That's nothing new. When I was growing up, a radio tower went into my home town. This was one of those big dishes used for astronomical radio analysis, not domestic. Still, a whole bunch of people in the town objected to it being built on the principle that it would make us a target for Soviet missiles. People have some pretty weird beliefs.

[FunkyDexter]

Well, yeah, there's always idiots. But I wasn't expecting people to start burning down towers!

I guess stupid gotta stupid.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Well, yeah, there's always idiots. But I wasn't expecting people to start burning down towers!

What's even more stupid is the towers they burned down were not even 5G !!

[FunkyDexter]

It's the same kind of reasoning that led to people voting Brexit because... brown people.

[TysonLPrice]

It's the same kind of reasoning that led to people voting Brexit because... brown people.

Make America White Again was what the hat meant right?

[FunkyDexter]

I hesitate to lump everyone in together but for some of the people wearing it... yes.

[TysonLPrice]

I hesitate to lump everyone in together but for some of the people wearing it... yes.

Very true - not all Trump supporters think that way. It amazes me he has as much non-white support as he does though.

[Shaggy Hiker]

So, Boris is sounding like he's in a bad way. Bit hard to judge, though. News is coming out a bit skewed.

[TysonLPrice]

So, Boris is sounding like he's in a bad way. Bit hard to judge, though. News is coming out a bit skewed.

Britain’s original strategy was based on the presumption that most people in the country will eventually get the virus, and severe measures to contain it are unlikely to work. I guess he got part of that right.

[FunkyDexter]

It sounds like he's through the worst of it. Still in intensive care but off the ventilator. I'm not a fan but I wish him the best.

[wes4dbt]

It sounds like he's through the worst of it. Still in intensive care but off the ventilator. I'm not a fan but I wish him the best.

Don't even know anything about him but found myself pulling for him, just seemed like it would be best for the UK. The US and UK are being hit hard by deaths today but France is just sky rocketing. Thought they may have leveled off. You just don't know, could be a "blip" and go back down tomorrow. I can't believe the hell NY/NJ area has been going through (I know other cities around the world have gone through this but this is the one being covered here is the US). It's amazing how strong people can be when needed. There's signs that NY is flatting off, I sure hope so.

[TysonLPrice]

OK...now we have "Zoom Bombing".

https://fortune.com/2020/04/06/zoom-...ts-spacex-ban/

At least it is new to me. Basically, and mostly due to user error, it is not that difficult to insert yourself into a Zoom session (a face to face user sharing app). Some imaginative hackers have posted pornography into virtual class rooms, others scribble all over the presentations until that meeting is canceled, etc. Isn't it amazing how a tool that generally benefits everybody gets turned into something nefarious by small groups of people. Opportunists are always just waiting to jump...

[si_the_geek]

It sounds like he's through the worst of it. Still in intensive care but off the ventilator. I'm not a fan but I wish him the best.

I'm afraid that isn't quite right... he apparently hasn't been on a ventilator (or CPAP etc), just a standard oxygen mask.

He was moved into intensive care just in case it gets worse, and for constant monitoring of his circumstances.

The official reports give the impression things are OK at the moment, but might get worse later.

Don't even know anything about him but found myself pulling for him, just seemed like it would be best for the UK.

Over the years he has mainly been seen as a bit of a comedy character (saying silly words, getting stuck on a zip-wire, etc), but over the last couple of months he has been very impressive - I don't think any other politician could have dealt with the crisis significantly better than he has (but I'm sure after it's all over, we'll all see things that could have been done better).

I certainly hope that he gets healthy again, and quickly. As a nice bonus, it would raise peoples spirits a bit.

The US and UK are being hit hard by deaths today but France is just sky rocketing. ...

There is reason to be hopeful based on the delay from the way things work - in the UK we are seeing signs of the lockdown working (apparently todays death toll is about 20% lower than predictions), and I suspect that due to lockdowns in other places that things will be improving for them too.

A bigger concern is the places that haven't gone into lockdown yet, especially less developed nations.

[wes4dbt]

The country I'm worried about is India. Just 5,000+ case, 150 deaths. I don't know how this could be possible, Over 1,000,000,000 people in India. The cases may be low because they don't test, maybe they don't test why people die either. They have a lot of densely populated areas and that usually mean high volume of cases. I just feel like it's about to explode. This is one of those times I hope I'm wrong, it happens all the time.

[dreammanor]

FangZhouZi(Fangshimin):

Wuhan has unblocked the city today, and should have done so earlier. At present, Wuhan should be the city with the lowest risk of infection by the new coronavirus in the world. After a period of time (perhaps a few weeks), it will be the same in New York(unblocked and become the least risky city). Think about the beginning, when Wuhan just locked the city, countless Wuhan people squeezed to the hospital, and then took the virus home and brought it back to the community ...

Note:
FangZhouZi(Fangshimin) is a supporter of "group immunization"(herd immunity), and so am I.

[FunkyDexter]

he apparently hasn't been on a ventilator

You're correct. Some of the reports I saw used some slightly misleading language (e.g. they were "optimistic because he was breathing unaided" and that he had "had oxygen" - which isn't quite the same as being on a ventilator) and I passed my misunderstanding on. The news I'm seeing is cautiously optimistic though.

I hope that news is right. While I may not like his politics I think he's a great character and has been a pretty good leader over the last couple of weeks. I hope he pulls through.



On a side note, Trump has taken to blaming the WHO for this for being too "China-centric" and is threatening to withhold funding. Just What?!

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Over the years he has mainly been seen as a bit of a comedy character (saying silly words, getting stuck on a zip-wire, etc), but over the last couple of months he has been very impressive - I don't think any other politician could have dealt with the crisis significantly better than he has (but I'm sure after it's all over, we'll all see things that could have been done better).

Wow so all it took was for Boris to take a Pandemic seriously and stop making jokes for him to be seen as impressive?

Of course other politicians could have dealt with it better we have examples around the world, the fact is many dealt with the crisis equally bad or worse and so Boris on the scale of responses is probably somewhere in the middle.

I know i am not a Tory and so i have a natural bias, but even so i found very little he has done during this pandemic impressive. He took no hard choices, he did only what he had to do when confronted by the science and he did it late, even now we are struggling for a testing response because of his decisions in January and February. Even now we have no clear plan for contact tracing which almost every expert says will be critical in reopening after lockdown.

The leaders who i have found impressive are those who looked at what was happening around them and made early tough decisions that saved lives such as Jacinda Arden in New Zealand and Moon Jae-in in South Korea. New Zealand looks like it may have the shortest lockdown of any country because they moved quickly and decisively.

Many countries including the UK waited and waited, Germany, South Korea and others were buying machines, swabs and reagents etc for Testing in January and February.

Speed of response and getting ahead of the virus spread are keys to dealing with we have been lacking in both.

[TysonLPrice]

On a side note, Trump has taken to blaming the WHO for this for being too "China-centric" and is threatening to withhold funding. Just What?!

That was the moron being the moron. He is already walking that back. On a daily basis he tries to rewrite history so that he is the absolute genius that saved the US. What is sad to me is around 40% of American swallow his crap and will vote for him again.

[TysonLPrice]

I just love the irony here...

The acting, and recently resigned in disgrace, Navy secretary Thomas Modly addressed the Navy crew of the Theodore Roosevelt following the Captain being replaced when a letter he wrote about members of his crew having Covid-19 was leaked to the press. Part of his diatribe was if the Captain didn't know the letter would be leaked that made him "too naive or too stupid" to be in command of the aircraft carrier. At that very moment he was being taped. And guess what...that was leaked to the press

His first response to the criticism was to double down and say that he "stood by every word". Then the dominoes started falling and he apologized to the crew. Then he resigned and followed that with a bigger apology. I just love that he stood there and berated the Captain for the very thing he was standing there doing

[si_the_geek]

Wow so all it took was for Boris to take a Pandemic seriously and stop making jokes for him to be seen as impressive?

He seems to be a good "war time" prime minister, but that doesn't mean I think he is good for other situations - I'm sure his actions for other things will annoy me many times in the next few years.

I was pointing out that I don't think that any of the other politicians we have in this country would have done much better than he did, except with hindsight.

Of course other politicians could have dealt with it better we have examples around the world, ...

I agree that many countries have dealt with it better - but comparing countries is awkward for a variety of reasons (eg: before this started Germany already had 3 times the ventilators per person that we did).

Our political history over the last decade or so has caused all kinds of complications (including NHS funding). In terms of a great response, from what I've seen Taiwan has been amazing - they tested everyone arriving into the country, and have had only 5 deaths. They attribute that to having had similar situations over recent years, so their response was not only well planned and equipped, but also almost immediate.

Based on the circumstances of the UK, and the wide variety of impacts the situation has (not just health, but also economic etc) I don't think our scientists etc made bad decisions at the time, but of course hindsight has already changed that to some degree. The political part of things on top of that has been very good, but not perfect... my opinion (despite my usual feelings about Boris) is that in terms of UK politicians, there isn't anyone who would have done the political part much/any better than he has.

[FunkyDexter]

He seems to be a good "war time" prime minister

I think I agree with that. I do think some wrong decisions have been made before this that meant we were behind the curve as far as testing and equipment have been concerned but I also think that Bojo has come across pretty well since the outbreak. He's presented well, with some decent gravitas, and done a good job of instilling some confidence in the country.

I don't agree with the assessment that he only acted when "confronted" by the science. His approach, as far as I've seen it, has been to defer to the Chief Medical Officer all the way down the line.

I disagreed with austerity politics but I also recognise that it's a rational policy and is really a bet on what the future holds. In terms of the NHS at least (and probably a bunch of other areas, we'll see what the future holds) the bet turned out to be wrong. This is my biggest criticism but it's a criticism of the whole recent Tory tenure, not of Boris himself.

there isn't anyone who would have done the political part much/any better than he has.

I do think we've got better leaders than Boris in the wings but they sure hell haven't been leading labour lately. The only party leader I can think of who would have done a better job is probably Nicola Sturgeon (even if she does remind me of Wee Jimmy Cranky) but I think there's actually quite a few politicians in the wings at the moment who seem to be being overlooked, particularly in Labour (though that may change under Starmer).

[NeedSomeAnswers]

I don't agree with the assessment that he only acted when "confronted" by the science. His approach, as far as I've seen it, has been to defer to the Chief Medical Officer all the way down the line.

Now he is doing that and in fact since we have locked down i am happy generally with how the government has acted, it was what they did before lockdown that i feel was lacking.

There were leading Scientist saying we should have locked down sooner as much as 1-2 weeks earlier once we saw what was happening in Italy and Spain, and in doing so we could have flattened the curve faster and been out of lockdown faster.

The government took some convincing they would have to go into a full lockdown, and it is fairly common knowledge now that it was the Imperial College London report that finally changed there minds on there strategy.


Also we had evidence a to what was happening in China in January, and what we didn't do was say what if this come over here. are we prepared and what do we need to prepare.

It is pretty clear that in March we started to do all the right things but by that time every country round the world is scrambling for tests and equipment.

[Shaggy Hiker]

When it comes to ignoring evidence, we're second to none.

[TysonLPrice]

When it comes to ignoring evidence, we're second to none.

Someone here has a signature:

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Winston Churchill

[wes4dbt]

What is sad to me is around 40% of American swallow his crap and will vote for him again.

Your right. It frustrates/angers me that he is not held accountable for constantly spewing lies and berating people. I've always hated liars and bullies. But believers will find a way to believe, if you tell them what they want to hear, they'll find a way to rationalize it so it is true.

What worries me is between the believers and the people that vote party lines no matter what, he will probably win again.

[TysonLPrice]

Your right. It frustrates/angers me that he is not held accountable for constantly spewing lies and berating people. I've always hated liars and bullies. But believers will find a way to believe, if you tell them what they want to hear, they'll find a way to rationalize it so it is true.

What worries me is between the believers and the people that vote party lines no matter what, he will probably win again.

There are a lot of people that think Trump will try and stay in office even if he is voted out. He has already stacked the courts, disemboweled institutional controls, duped 40% of the country, and has declared the press the "enemy of the people". I can just see him using the virus a reason to try and stop the election until he has saved the country. I never thought American democracy could change to a despot but I'm watching the possibly grow.

[wes4dbt]

I not at that point yet. I still believe a large majority of Americans (even Republicans ) want and believe in our constitution. But what the hell do I know, these last 4yrs has made it clear to me that I don't know squat.

[FunkyDexter]

Someone here has a signature:...

Wait... what? Who could possibly be so rude about our fine American Cousins?!

(I actually think it's a pretty good assessment of all societies, not just you lot)

There are a lot of people that think Trump will try and stay in office even if he is voted out

He'll try, it just won't amount to anything.