You have to admit, it was *very* well planned

[plenderj]

However awful a tragedy it was, it was all organised very well. In my opinion, the US may have gotten off relatively lightly.
Lightly, in comparison to what could have happened.

We know that plane that went down in that field or whatever was hijacked. So that probably could have hit something important also. Anyway, if they took 4 planes so easily, they could have taken more.

And if they had taken more they could have hit many many important/highly populated areas.

Oh yeah, and did anyone see that there were explosions in "Kabul" (spelling?) last night. Does anyone know who it was, or what was blowing up ? CNN just had a dodgy video-phone that didnt work very well at 30 miles away from the action...

[kovan]

the Kabul explosions are blamed on the afghans opposition government

[plenderj]

I see. And I know I'm going to probably gets lots of hatemail or flames over this, but if what I read about abdul is correct, then I agree with something he said.

I think he said that it was better the plane hit the pentagon/military sites than resedential/commercial areas.
And I agree.

Obviously we dont want anyone getting killed.
But when it comes down to it, military personell have agreed to work in a potentially very dangerous area. Commercial/Resedential people have not.

Now I'm not saying that given the choice a person from the military should be killed over a civlian. No-one should be killed.
But when the military people go to work in one of the world's biggest targets, they're choosing to put their asses on the line.
A stock exchange analyst, or a financial consultant, or an office administrator on the other hand does not.

[plenderj]

I know I know.
But I'm just saying that they're working in a military installation.

A military installation is always a target in a war/attack.
Not only are they working in "a military installation", they're working in the pentagon. That has to be the first thing that would get hit in an attack.

Also, the fact that it is a military installation they'd be more prepared/able to deal with the situation. If the pentagon building was a shopping centre for example, and was hit, there could have been a lot more deaths.

[amitabh]

Bombing a shopping Mall would not have produced the same effect that has now been created. Remeber, WTC
is supposed to be the hub of NYC which is supposed to be the economic capital of USA. Pentagon is the military
commnad HQ of the US Armed forces. There were talks of threats to the White house. These are symbols
representing the very nature of the spirit of USA. And this is what the attack was targeted at. While the
casualties do matter, it was the symbolism that was
more important for the terrorist group that executed the act.

[plenderj]

Oh yeah I know that but I was only referring to a shopping centre in response to honeybee's comments.

[kovan]

well when US starts to bomb other countries they dont say "well there might be clerks that do nothing but entry or help desk" they just level it
so if your working in a military, your puting your life on the line EVERY DAY
dont like it? quit
but i am saddened by the innocent people who lost their lives on the planes, as well as the WTC

[InvisibleDuncan]

Jamie,

I think this (from the lobotomise Abdul thread) bears repeating here:

Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan

Abdul, you utter ****: the Pentagon is a tourist attraction, and they give guided tours around the establishment. When I had a look around a few years ago, the tour group I was in was followed by a school outing. Kids of about 10 or 12 years.

Do they possibly count as innocents, you warped, murderous little ****?

[kovan]

you know though
in wars
the only ones majority of them anyways that die
are INNOCENT PEOPLE

sad sad sad world we live in

[plenderj]

I would imagine that most major installations of any sort in the states also attract tourists. Its still the backbone of the american defenses.

[InvisibleDuncan]

Originally posted by plenderj
But when it comes down to it, military personell have agreed to work in a potentially very dangerous area. Commercial/Resedential people have not.
<Snip>
But when the military people go to work in one of the world's biggest targets, they're choosing to put their asses on the line.
A stock exchange analyst, or a financial consultant, or an office administrator on the other hand does not.

I was referring to this. I think you'll also find that a bunch of international tourists and schoolchildren are also not intentionally putting their arses on the line.

Hopefully all non-essential personnel had already been kicked out, but there's no way the terrorists could have known that.

Anyway, enough said. I'm not going to fight with you over this.

[Gary.Lowe]

I agree at least whoevcer bombed Kabul Lastnight had the decency to bomb a Military amunitions dump (no civilians).

[plenderj]

Jesus christ people on these forums are so ****ing thick.
I did not, nor did abdul, say that it was ok for anything to happen.

I did not say it was ok for a plane to crash into the pentagon.

What I said was that it was better for it to crash into the pentagon that another resedential/commercial area.

[InvisibleDuncan]

Originally posted by plenderj
I did not, nor did abdul, say that it was ok for anything to happen.

Actually, I distinctly recall Abdul saying that the fact this had happened made him happy.

[plenderj]

hehe right ok well I didnt anyway

[NotLKH]

Originally posted by plenderj

I think he said that it was better the plane hit the pentagon/military sites than resedential/commercial areas.

FYI, From the last page of the deleted thread, this is what he said:

***********************************#1
Nobody knows yet who attacked on US but if it will be muslims then they are paying back.

I don't know what will happen but WW3 is also too far for now. And also none of the muslim coutries attacked on US.
***********************************#2
Sorry... I fogot to talk about the WTC. I am feeling sorry for it but not for the bombing that took place on Pentagon
***********************************#3
Yes, US is the target for what it has done to other muslim countries!
***********************************#4
It means that if you killing our innocent civilians then why do we just hit the army or defence forces?? If you would be in that situation in which Palestinians are then you would *strike* back at whoever in US!!

You would say that US has not done anything but it is the **Political Terrorist**
***********************************#5
I think that US should now understand *not to support any kind of terrorism against muslim countries*
***********************************#6
I feel sorry for WTC attack but also not. I think that it should have cleared the US mind about supporting the terrorist in this world against muslim countries.
If you look at the planes then those were not fighter planes.
***********************************#7
If I would be in any of those planes and it had hit any US government site then I would be happy to be died
***********************************#8
As I said, US is a political terrorist. Almost all of of the weapons used by Israel to bomb no Palestinian buildings (also other than Police Stations) were made by US. And US says that it knows where the weapons are used. What hte ***** it knows about that?? They would the rocket made by US that hit the Palestinian buildings.
***********************************#9
Great news I wish all of planes had hit the Army/government sites
***********************************#10
Are there innocent people in Pentagon?
***********************************#11
There is no 11.

[InvisibleDuncan]

Originally posted by NotLKH

***********************************#11
There is no 11.

After all that, there doesn't need to be.

He's one warped little ****.

[abdul]

Originally posted by InvisibleDuncan

Actually, I distinctly recall Abdul saying that the fact this had happened made him happy.

I was happy when Pentagon was attacked. It does not matter whoever was in it but the only thing is that it was a symbol of US military.

[NotLKH]

Originally posted by abdul
I was happy when Pentagon was attacked. It does not matter whoever was in it but the only thing is that it was a symbol of US military.

Wrong. Of Course the people mattered. The Terrorists INTENTIONALLY killed the people, that was their goal. The terrorists did not care who was killed, just so long as there were as many burned, mutilated, dismembered, crushed and bloody bodies as possible as a result of their actions.

Whats your view on the terrorists killing the people on the planes?

[abdul]

That was 100% wrong and I feel sorry for them!

[BG]

I would like to retract my statement about Palestinian Mothers. I have reviewed the video tape of the party they were having in the streets and I didn't see any one's mother. As for the rest of the people on that video tape my comment stands unchanged but please do not do what I told you to do to you mothers. Also Palestinian Mothers, give them boys a spankin and send them to bed without dinner!

"B"

PS: I think Abdul said it best when he said "Are there innocent people in Pentagon? "

Abdul, it was the pentagon that was blown up not the Penitentiary.

http://www.hop.com/

[Tygur]

I have kept my mouth shut through all this, but I think I'm going to go ahead and say a few things:

I do agree with Abdul that the fact that the pentagon was attacked is not as bad as the fact that the wtc was attacked, though I am against both places being attacked and I wish none of it ever happened.

The pentagon was a military/government building. These kinds of buildings are always attacked in wars and it's generally considered okay (very loosely applied; I don't like war at all and I don't like it when any place gets attacked). The attacker's quarrel is with the government, not the civilians.

The fact that there were (or could have been, just in case there weren't) civilians or otherwise innocent people in these government/military buildings only means that the government is putting these people in danger. The civilians' lives are the responsibility of the government.

[BG]

Originally posted by Tygur
.

The fact that there were (or could have been, just in case there weren't) civilians or otherwise innocent people in these government/military buildings only means that the government is putting these people in danger. The civilians' lives are the responsibility of the government.

I'll buy that part, the defense department and NSA should have been prepared for this, but the US was not at war with anyone! As of now it is assumed these were terrorists not another country.

I do not think there is a country in the world that has the nads not to turn the people responsible for this over to the US. Well, China and Russia might have the nads but they also have the gutts to tell you before they are going to try to blow you up.

[plenderj]

No!

This is the pentagon.
It is the hub of the US military.
If you go to work in the pentagon you must assume that the building is a potential target.

Redargless of whether or not you're in a war, the building is still a prime target. And if you go to work there every day, its being very presumptious and damn right stupid to assume that you're safe just because its not a war.

[ghost ryder]

exactly

americans have this attitude that they are immune to the terrorist threat, that they are the superheroes who cannot be touched but will rush in and save the day, they have had irish terrorists in the white house, do they care??

hell no

they r not walking the streets of london in fear of a bomb (ok this is an old example, but still relevant)

if the US had had better security on domestic flights then this would never have happened

and as for innocent people in the pentagon, why were they there???? (if they were) this is the main military building for crying out loud, there should be no guided tours because terrorism is ALWAYS a threat, and a country hated as much as the USA should always be prepared to deal with this, not assume that it is invunerable, coz as those sickos proved, they are not

[plenderj]

Yeah.
I doubt the russians would take the same approach if their KGB headquarters was hit or whatever.

And I sincerely doubt there's guided tours of there.


Also, if thers guided tours of the hub of the US defense system, why not have guided tours of nuclear silos too ?
Just seems stupid to me.

[ghost ryder]

exactly

in my mind, at least two positive things can come out this tragedy

1: the US stops condoning terrorism againts islamic nations and changes it foreign policies to improve its image in the middle-east (a long process)

2: they will realise that they are not superhumans who are immune to everything and heighten security and avoid anything like this happening ever again

[plenderj]

Yeah. Perhaps in a rather perverse way it was good for the US.

Like a good kick up the arse to wake someone up.

[kedaman]

which makes me wonder why there is reason to act so surprised about it. US should actually hold themselves responsible for causing its situation, the position as a target as well as low security <- I asked myself earlier if this is something you can't fullfill if you are an american freedom contradicts security, obviously nobody haven't replied yet and I begin to wonder where the hell they are.

[ghost ryder]

Originally posted by plenderj
Yeah. Perhaps in a rather perverse way it was good for the US.

Like a good kick up the arse to wake someone up.

indeed

and now that they are awake, be sure you wont be seeing anything like this (or even near this level) again

[plenderj]

Well you know large nations tend to get cocky.
For example, remember when the russians said that Red Square was so secure that no missles or anything could get into it.

Then some guy from sweden or something landed in the square in a cessna !

[ghost ryder]

weel we have all seen the cocky america who think it cant be touched, but when they find the perpetrator, my guess is we r gonna see a very angry pissed off badass mutha****a of a country.

and seeing as powell and bush both see it as an act of war (and we all know how brutal the yanks can be during war - witness vietnam). suffice to say, i would want 2 be anywhere near the guys who did this

[plenderj]

Yeah but they cant do anything by themselves. Look at my other post in chit-chat.

[ghost ryder]

i know, but they will be pushing for an all out ass-kickin (see we r back 2 the big superdude attitude of the US)

but i think that the rest of NATO will calm them down, hopefully, otherwise bush to do something bush-esque and start WW3

and i sure im not the only one who dont want that to happen

[plenderj]

I think that after this has been sorted out and we know who did it, NATO will flatten every square inch of every country it thinks housed the terrorists.

Simple as that.
There are enough countries in NATO with ICBMs and long range bombers to simply pound every square inch of a country.

[plenderj]

Anyway, everyone hates the taliban.
So its a win-win situation.