Rebuilding the WTC?

**S@NSIS** · Sep 12th, 2001, 09:50 AM

Firstly, let me offer my condolences to all those affected by this tragedy.

Secondly, someone posted (can't remember who) that they will rebuild the WTC and probably make it taller.

My question is, if they do rebuild the WTC (or any other skyscraper for that matter), will they implement any new safety features for evacuation if the need arises?

Personally, if I were working in a building that tall, I would probably take a parachute to work with me (seriously!!).

Surely they must start looking at the designs of these buildings and how to evacuate people who can't get down, as quickly as possible.

Just a thought

S@NSIS

**chrisjk** · Sep 12th, 2001, 09:55 AM

There definatly should be something do enable people to jump out windows without harm...maybe parachutes, maybe crash mats on the ground.

The design of these buildings is such that the ratio of the actual entrance/exit is vastly inferior in terms of size than the rest of the building. 109 floors worth of people trying to fit on 1 gound floor ain't ganna happen.

**ShIzO** · Sep 12th, 2001, 10:05 AM

damn,

i wouldn't want to work at WTC! they should build something underground, WTC has been hit twice and finally destroyed, if they rebuild it im sure it will be a target again!!!

**MartinSmith** · Sep 12th, 2001, 10:05 AM

Yes, I saw a fire safety person being interviewed on TV earlier and he said that in 1993 it took 3 hours to evacuate 50% of the personnell in that building.

This is obviously far too slow, but I don't really know what the alternative is. Going for area rather than height would presumably be prohibitively expensive in areas such as NY.

**CiberTHuG** · Sep 12th, 2001, 02:45 PM

Yes, I think we should rebuild, and I think they should be taller. As to safety, I am all for it. Add any safety features you think you can find.

Here are a few suggestions that someone should research. I'm sure engineers can come up with better ideas.

Helicopters: There should be pads with helicopters on standby. This can only evacuate people slowly (12/24 people every 15 minutes?) but it can get people that are above a fire.

Skywalks: Connect the towers to each other, and to other buildings. Have serveral connections, and have them as high as possible. This will allow people to move from building to building.

Underground Exits: There can be express/emeregency elevators that take people to special sub levels that have exits into neighboring blocks/buildings.

Repelling Rigs: This is probably favorable to parachutes since we can set this up to work with unskilled people. Again, this may be slow or otherwise limited.

Again, I'm sure the possibilities are endless, my examples just show that safety is possible.

But we can not cower in fear and refuse to rebuild. We must show them that this attack was in vain. Besides, there is a pair of towers in Kuala Lampur (sp?) that holds the record. I don't mind if we bring the record home.

**chrisjk** · Sep 12th, 2001, 03:00 PM

I think technically the tower with the spike on it (no1?) was tallest but only because of that radio/tv mast which was added so it would keep it's status, but to all intents and purposes it is kuala lumpar's petrona towers

**SteveCRM** · Sep 12th, 2001, 03:08 PM

I think it will forever be made a monument. and rightly so

making a building taller would be stupid......make a larger target that will fit more people?

BG · Sep 12th, 2001, 03:22 PM

The WTC towers were built using technology and engineering that is inferior to the methods in place today. I'm not an expert but I would be willing to guess that a west coast style building built to withstand the shock of catastrophic earthquakes would not have caved nearly as fast as the NYC buildings did.

Have you ever been to Cedar Point amusement park in Ohio?Maybe a beefed up version of the Demon Drop would be a good way to get people off of the higher floors. It sure would be a fast way.

I really do hope they rebuild them though.

**SurfDemon** · Sep 12th, 2001, 03:32 PM

Anti-aircraft missiles

SD

Tygur · Sep 12th, 2001, 04:04 PM

I am all for the extra safety precautions. Just like ships have lifeboats and life jackets, tall buildings should have parachutes at the top and rapelling rigs and whatever else people can come up with.

**chrisjk** · Sep 12th, 2001, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by BG
The WTC towers were built using technology and engineering that is inferior to the methods in place today. I'm not an expert but I would be willing to guess that a west coast style building built to withstand the shock of catastrophic earthquakes would not have caved nearly as fast as the NYC buildings did.

Yep, they reckon no building would withstand a plane striking at crusing speed (some 500 mph), which may or may not be true, but I think newer buildings would stay up longer - WTC had no internal columns, it's entire supporting structure was the outside wall, which got blasted.

**SteveCRM** · Sep 12th, 2001, 04:17 PM

unfortunatley I don't think parachutes would work well...(well better than with no parachutes!) because they'd get tangled, or it would take too long to jump free of the building.....or they could get stuck on something

but I'm all for tons of safety measures!

**SteveCRM** · Sep 12th, 2001, 04:18 PM

hey the empire state building withstood a plane hitting it.....single engine but still stood up pretty well against it

**chrisjk** · Sep 12th, 2001, 04:25 PM

I didn't know this until earlier today, but apparently a light aircraft hit No1 WTC tower last year

Oh and they now reckon building 5 is going down....watch out

**Skitchen8** · Sep 12th, 2001, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by SurfDemon
Anti-aircraft missiles

SD

the airports right near where the towers used to be... can you say stupid??

lol

**Skitchen8** · Sep 12th, 2001, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by SteveCRM
hey the empire state building withstood a plane hitting it.....single engine but still stood up pretty well against it

yes, the plane that hit it weighed a little over a ton... the 767's that hit the twin towers way upwards of 100 tons w/ full fuel (which they had)

**Skitchen8** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:00 PM

lets see... momentum = force * velocity i think
1 ton * 150mph (approximate speed of the light plane) = 150 * 2000 which equals well over 3000 newtons of force... not enough to knock a strongly built building down

100 ton * 400mph (just about full speed) 40,000 * 2000 = enought to knock just about anything down

**Olly** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:01 PM

For me as normal person the empire state building looks far more stable built than the wtc. It looks like massive stone and it gets thinner the higher you go. By this the floors can't crach onto each other, creating a chain reaction.

**JungleMan** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:01 PM

bah, using Linux will solve all their problems (joke)

**Skitchen8** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:05 PM

do you really think that now is the time for jokes?? do you think thousands of people dying is funny?

**JungleMan** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Skitchen8
do you really think that now is the time for jokes?? do you think thousands of people dying is funny?

Not at all!!!

it's very sad

but was i joking about people dying or was I making fun of ZDNET-Linux commentators?

**Skitchen8** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:09 PM

well... you were making a joke in a thread about a very sad topic...

**EternalKnight** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:10 PM

My guess would be that the empire state building in fact was much less stable (for it's height). The WTC was built _extremely_ well. The simple fact that it survived the initial impact of the plane is amazing.

What finally brought it down was the heat of thousands of gallons of jet fuel burning.

**JungleMan** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Skitchen8
well... you were making a joke in a thread about a very sad topic...

ok well i wasn't joking about the deaths was i NOOOOOOOOOOO

so stfu, jk

Tygur · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:14 PM

Okay, about the jokes:

I don't think jokes are so bad. This is a very unhappy mood we're in and it's not at all healthy. We can use something to lighten up the mood a bit. Nobody (nobody here, anyway) thinks all those people dying is funny. It's very serious, and very bad. (I know there are better words, but that's all I came up with on the spot) I'd say this makes us need something to lift up our spirits a bit. Watch it, though. Some jokes can go too far.

**Skitchen8** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:18 PM

abdul is happy... and alll the fuccking *****s like him are loving this, they shall all burn in hell when the US fuccks up their countries too

**JungleMan** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Skitchen8
abdul is happy... and alll the fuccking *****s like him are loving this, they shall all burn in hell when the US fuccks up their countries too

Yea, abdul can curl up in a corner and die

Tygur · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Skitchen8
abdul is happy... and alll the fuccking *****s like him are loving this, they shall all burn in hell when the US fuccks up their countries too

If I understand correctly, Abdul is against the deaths of the people on the airplanes and in the wtc. He only supports what happened at the pentagon. I'd say he's not entirely happy.

**markman** · Sep 12th, 2001, 06:40 PM

I heard the wtc was designed to collapse on itself so not to endanger any other buildings.

**nishantp** · Sep 12th, 2001, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by CiberTHuG
Yes, I think we should rebuild, and I think they should be taller. As to safety, I am all for it. Add any safety features you think you can find.

Here are a few suggestions that someone should research. I'm sure engineers can come up with better ideas.

Helicopters: There should be pads with helicopters on standby. This can only evacuate people slowly (12/24 people every 15 minutes?) but it can get people that are above a fire.

Skywalks: Connect the towers to each other, and to other buildings. Have serveral connections, and have them as high as possible. This will allow people to move from building to building.

Underground Exits: There can be express/emeregency elevators that take people to special sub levels that have exits into neighboring blocks/buildings.

Repelling Rigs: This is probably favorable to parachutes since we can set this up to work with unskilled people. Again, this may be slow or otherwise limited.

Again, I'm sure the possibilities are endless, my examples just show that safety is possible.

But we can not cower in fear and refuse to rebuild. We must show them that this attack was in vain. Besides, there is a pair of towers in Kuala Lampur (sp?) that holds the record. I don't mind if we bring the record home.

BTW, i havn't read the rest of the thread...

First of all, the Twin Towers were free standing, so they arent in the same category as the towers in Kuala Lumpur (they are connected mid-way up, just watch Entrapment). The tallest free-standing structure in the World is currently the CN tower in Toronto. But it doesnt have floors....there are only 3 i believe. So again its not in the same category. In any case...i think everyone will think twice before building such huge towers. In not saying it wont happen, im saying it will take a while.

**nishantp** · Sep 12th, 2001, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by BG
The WTC towers were built using technology and engineering that is inferior to the methods in place today. I'm not an expert but I would be willing to guess that a west coast style building built to withstand the shock of catastrophic earthquakes would not have caved nearly as fast as the NYC buildings did.

Have you ever been to Cedar Point amusement park in Ohio?Maybe a beefed up version of the Demon Drop would be a good way to get people off of the higher floors. It sure would be a fast way.

I really do hope they rebuild them though.

LOL sorry...had to laugh at that. Although...From that high up...peoples stomachs would get left at the top. Ive been on the demon drop...lets say you shouldnt eat before going on it. And this would be MUCH taller than that. I think at that height...you might actually kill the people.

But before you flame me...im no expert but i suppose a slower, let terrifying version could work.

**nishantp** · Sep 12th, 2001, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by markman
I heard the wtc was designed to collapse on itself so not to endanger any other buildings.

Yeah it must have been, cause i was surprised that it didnt topple over and destroy a few more buildings. Of course im grateful to.

**SurfDemon** · Sep 12th, 2001, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Skitchen8
abdul is happy... and alll the fuccking *****s like him are loving this, they shall all burn in hell when the US fuccks up their countries too

Skitchen calm down. You are taking this way too personally.

Yes we all agree Abdul is a ****** of the highest order, but what makes you think that the US bombing another country is any more noble than what has happened to yours. Calm down, get some perspective. Bring the guilty to justice, but don't punish the innocent.

Your signature says it all. I imagine once you start bombing muslim countries they will have exactly the same sig.... give it some thought.

SD

**Skitchen8** · Sep 13th, 2001, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by SurfDemon

Skitchen calm down. You are taking this way too personally.

Yes we all agree Abdul is a ****** of the highest order, but what makes you think that the US bombing another country is any more noble than what has happened to yours. Calm down, get some perspective. Bring the guilty to justice, but don't punish the innocent.

Your signature says it all. I imagine once you start bombing muslim countries they will have exactly the same sig.... give it some thought.

SD

Im taking this personally... this was an attack on my country, am i supposed to let it pass. Thank god i was not directly affected, but people i know were, this is personal...

that is Justice... we won't punish the innocent, you call people that are laughing and parading in the streets because thousands of people are dying innocent

**SurfDemon** · Sep 13th, 2001, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Skitchen8

that is Justice... we won't punish the innocent, you call people that are laughing and parading in the streets because thousands of people are dying innocent

The people celebrating on the street do not represent their countries. Read some of the Msulim papers (in English), there are many outpourings of sympathy.

SD

**Skitchen8** · Sep 13th, 2001, 07:49 PM

yes... but as far as im concerened not enough, i know that some are giving sympathy (for example kovan) but i don't think its enough people. If you read most of my posts on this board i have not been opposed to anyone, but this is too far so now i am opposed to just about eveyone in the middle east

KATHAD!! (Kick All Towel Headed Asses Daily)

**SurfDemon** · Sep 13th, 2001, 08:17 PM

There are some Americans celebrating (on the george washington bridge for example), does this make America guilty. Of course not. Now open your eyes and stop looking at the world through hatred and vengance. Neither will honour the many victims of this attrocity.

Find the guilty (and only them) and bring them to justice.

SD

**aknisely** · Sep 13th, 2001, 08:28 PM

, but this is too far so now i am opposed to just about eveyone in the middle east

KATHAD!! (Kick All Towel Headed Asses Daily)

I find both of those statements to be incredibly racist, and filled with prejudice that is explained, but not excused, by the terrorism. I suggest you change your attitude before you hurt someone.

**chrismitchell** · Sep 14th, 2001, 06:43 AM

Personally I think that out of a mark of respect they shouldn't rebuild it.. Instead put a park or something like that in there instead. I think that would be better..

**S@NSIS** · Sep 14th, 2001, 06:51 AM

They will re-build the WTC elsewhere. (I reckon!)

I think that most likely, some sort of memorial will be built in place of the destroyed WTC.

I can't imagine that they will ever build offices there again.

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