TALIBAN - And other f__ked up things

[Beacon]

Will somone please explain to me what the hell is the taliban??

As far as i understand there the ruling party of Afghanistan!
Based on very strict Islamic rules!!!

Also can someone tell me a perfectly good and reasonable reason for this:
In a muslim country:
A 18 year old girl gets raped by a realtive of her own family. The police take her in and send her to prison for her own safety. The family pays Oz$13 000 to get her out and her own brother shoots her for not bieng a virgin anymore! Therefore putting to chame her own family. He says that it was her fault!!
He gets sent to prison and is hailed a hero!
The rapist doesnt even get a prison sentence!!



Also explain this:
In sydney Australia 3 LEBANESE boys aged 15-18 hold 2 Australian girls at Knife point take them to an old factory and gang rape them each twice!
The families of the boys say the girls deserved it!!!
The boys get a light sentence pending an appeal by the District Aterney.

Then the lebaonese get mad becuase mainly pure blood australians send the family and the community leaders threats.

Please someone explain to me how just becasue there friggin religion is muslim/islamic they think this is ok!!!

Also how they think they can do this in Our country. Your in Australia i dont give to s h i t what your religion is you abide by our laws otherwise be dealt a severe sentence!

[siyan]

Organized religion is taken too far.

-C

[Beacon]

I wanna know why they dont respect women!!!

[aknisely]

As far as i understand there the ruling party of Afghanistan! Based on very strict Islamic rules!!!

Replace the word "party" with "regime."

The boys get a light sentence pending an appeal by the District Aterney.

Children aren't given long prison sentences in the western world, Lebonese or not. The fact that they were Lebonese has little to do with juvenile delinquency laws.

Please someone explain to me how just becasue there friggin religion is muslim/islamic they think this is ok!!!

Don't try to understand Islam. It's a fruitless endevour.

I wanna know why they dont respect women!!!

Because they don't. They never have, and they likely never will. Islam does nothing in the way of progression of beliefs or values to suit modern concepts of law, respect, and dignity.

[Beacon]

HMM OK!!

"Children aren't given long prison sentences in the western world, Lebonese or not. The fact that they were Lebonese has little to do with juvenile delinquency laws."

It does too. These boys raped them thinking it was ok bieng lebanese has a big part of it!
The leniant sentence is our justice systems fault but i'm sure that'll change on the appeal!

Rape is the most hanous crime it should be punshed by life imprisonment.
Why they do it is unknown to me! I mean go get laid some other way or pay $100 and get a hooker for your weird sex fetishes!
18 is an adult up here in Oz!!

[aknisely]

It does too. These boys raped them thinking it was ok bieng lebanese has a big part of it!

So? What they were thinking at the time has little to do with the actual crime. You cannot give harsher sentences to people simply because they aren't native to your country.

The leniant sentence is our justice systems fault but i'm sure that'll change on the appeal!

No, the leniant sentences are the result of years of progression of modern judicial systems. I haven't read the actual judgement (do you have a copy?) but I highly doubt that an appeal will change much.

Rape is the most hanous crime it should be punshed by life imprisonment.

Nonsense. Even the worst of criminals should be given a chance of remittance.

Why they do it is unknown to me! I mean go get laid some other way or pay $100 and get a hooker for your weird sex fetishes!

From what I've read, sexual assault isn't really about sexual pleasure or desire at all.

[kovan]

Beacon, what you said has NOTHING to do with Islam
its based on culture of the country, and again has NOTHING to do with Islam

if those boys did rape, why were they given light sentences
rapests should be hanged

and about Taliban
they "Claim" they are using strict islamic rules
by far thats not true
infact they are under fire from most "muslim" countries for claiming that they are following Islam

Because they don't. They never have, and they likely never will. Islam does nothing in the way of progression of beliefs or values to suit modern concepts of law, respect, and dignity.

again that proves how intelligent you are on a subject you claim you know..

A 18 year old girl gets raped by a realtive of her own family. The police take her in and send her to prison for her own safety. The family pays Oz$13 000 to get her out and her own brother shoots her for not bieng a virgin anymore! Therefore putting to chame her own family. He says that it was her fault!!
He gets sent to prison and is hailed a hero!
The rapist doesnt even get a prison sentence!!

if that was the case,
under Islamic law, the rapest would have been hanged
and if the brother did shoot her if she was raped, he would be hanged for killing a innocent

dont try to mix peoples culture with Islam

[Beacon]

Kovan:
"Beacon, what you said has NOTHING to do with Islam
its based on culture of the country, and again has NOTHING to do with Islam "

And isnt the culture of afghanistan based on Islam!
According to the Taliban it sure as hell is!!

LEBANESE BOYS
"if those boys did rape, why were they given light sentences
rapests should be hanged "

Coz it's in Australia!!! We dont hang ppl here!
The light sentences were because of a plea bargain for pleading guilty!!!

"if that was the case,
under Islamic law, the rapest would have been hanged
and if the brother did shoot her if she was raped, he would be hanged for killing a innocent

dont try to mix peoples culture with Islam"

Well to my knowledge he wasnt! I dont think he was caught!
Brother claimed it was a honour killing! Got 2 years imprisonment!
I'm not, it's not my fault there cultures based on Islamic principles!

If they respected women as human biengs and independents it would be different!

[Beacon]

Aknisely:

"Nonsense. Even the worst of criminals should be given a chance of remittance. "

Well in that case Jack the ripper, timothy mcveigh and other killers/rapists should be still living today right??
Makes a lot of sense!

Under you beliefs i could go rape your sister, daughter, mother whomever and say whoops sorry and keep living normally.
(not that i would)
Get F__KED! Unless your totally Insane you know when your have sex with someone you know what your doing and you know when another human bieng is screaming, crying, bleeding and saying NO! You know that, that is not right!
Dont be telling me that someone who takes away another humans right for freedom and free will is justafiable and should be jailed for a long long time!

[kovan]

Well to my knowledge he wasnt! I dont think he was caught!
Brother claimed it was a honour killing! Got 2 years imprisonment!
I'm not, it's not my fault there cultures based on Islamic principles!

Honour killing is againts Islam
pride of ones nation is againts islam
there for what you said is not based on Islam

LEBANESE BOYS
"if those boys did rape, why were they given light sentences
rapests should be hanged "

Coz it's in Australia!!! We dont hang ppl here!
The light sentences were because of a plea bargain for pleading guilty!!!

now WHAT part of these has to do with Islam?
more than 30% of lebanon are non muslims, if not more

well your law system is messed up, that if someone admits to the crime you go easy on him...

what should be done with rapists?
jailed?

And isnt the culture of afghanistan based on Islam!
According to the Taliban it sure as hell is!!

could you please explain which part of their doing "is based on islam"

provide proof from Qur'an
and then explain how taliban follows this proof to make their culture based on "Islam"

[Beacon]

"could you please explain which part of their doing "is based on islam" "

What you think i'm a preist or something??
Some taliban dude(dont know his title) appeared on a report on the atrocities in afghanistan.
He spoke of his countries sole religion Islam, honour killings, womens rights or lack of them and humanitarian crimes.

Further proof is that the only religion allowed by the taliban is Islam practice anything else and you get hung!
Geez i wonder if there culture and society has anything to do with islam.

Sorry if i'm wrong but:

Taliban follow the teachings of Islam strictly even extremists then taliban control afghanistan. So afghanistan's society must be heavily influenced by the taliban and since the taliban are influenced and motivated by religion(islam) afghan society is influenced by islam!

Yes, the boys should be jailed!

[kovan]

What you think i'm a preist or something??
Some taliban dude(dont know his title) appeared on a report on the atrocities in afghanistan.
He spoke of his countries sole religion Islam, honour killings, womens rights or lack of them and humanitarian crimes.

well i am telling you right now, Islam gives rights to women
more than any other religion (bring it on for those that want to get into this)

to make a statement, you must have evidence
Islam recognizes other religions,
and you stated that taliban doesnt allow anything but Islam
do you see the contriction?

its best you have proof before you make statements that have no ground to stand on
specially when you critize a religion based on no facts
and claim that there are facts of peoples actions, when in reality those actions are againts Islam

best way to say
Taliban is doing this, which is according to this part of islam,
then explain how that is wrong

but to say taliban is doing this, thats according to islam, but i dont have proof of this
thats is just wrong

again, please bring proof of which part of Islam allows "Honour Killing"

and you didnt exactly explain, or at all, how lebanese you speak of have to do with Islam

[Beacon]

Right ok so far your saying taliban have nothing to do with Islam beliefs correct?

But the taliban say they do?

Who do people who are not islamic people believe!!!!

Correct never said they did!

[kovan]

Taliban follows SOME islamic rules
those which one one ever critisizes them for
but when you get into no rights for women, no other religion than islam
and honour killing
thats where people fire at taliban
which has NOTHING to do with islam
but what do they do?
they blame Islam

if you think taliban has done other things that are unjust and you think islam is to blame for
let me know
i will tell you what Islam stands on the issue

1. Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islâmic Monotheism)."

that is a clear proof from the Quran that everyone has the right to believe what they please



so i still awaite about why you refered to Islam when you mentioned those boyz

i have drawn my own conclusion on that though
your mad because they didnt rape you
so what do you do when you get angry? you take it out on Islam

its ok, you can find some non muslims who will rape you in anyway you want

[Beacon]

Ok fair enough. So the taliban are liars they dont follow islam the make it up! yaha! sure.

The lebanese boys well there religion was islamic i'm pretty sure i just made a crude connection between the 2 horrific stories!
But if what you say is true and islam not what i think it is then fine i'm sorry.
But still i dont think justice is served!
And i still dont believe you with regard to womens rights kovan especially when the Islamic leader in Australia says "women shouldnt go out in public in improper dress!"
And i girl should be a virgin otherwise it's shame to the family etc.

[Beacon]

kovan:
Your religion if i'm correct doesnt let girls out in nothing less than there bed sheets!
Hmm yeah i'm the gay one!!

[kovan]

But if what you say is true and islam not what i think it is then fine i'm sorry.
But still i dont think justice is served!

well you tell me what and where justice is not served and i will justify it with Islamic source
so that you dont have any doubts

a girl being virgin is for herself
not her family
if you get into her family being in shame if she is not
thats getting into Honour, which leads to Honour Killing
which i have said enough about

Islamic leader in Australia says "women shouldnt go out in public in improper dress!"

whats wrong with saying they shouldnt go out in improper dresses?
but he failed to say the same about men

do you believe in anyshape or form that the way a girl dresses, or acts has influence on her being raped?

The lebanese boys well there religion was islamic i'm pretty sure i just made a crude connection between the 2 horrific stories!

why though, surely you must have something againts Islam
did these boys say "we raped for Islam, in the ame of Allah"?
was there any reference to Islam in their confession in any form?

i dont blame you for you trying to link it to Islam
the society around us is cruel
and has a lot of influence on our minds and decisons

have you met a muslim, in real life that mistreated their woman and said "I am doing this because Islam gives me the right, and here is the proof of my right according to Islam"
?

lets be rational and have proof first before we open a can of worms

[kovan]

Originally posted by Beacon
kovan:
Your religion if i'm correct doesnt let girls out in nothing less than there bed sheets!
Hmm yeah i'm the gay one!!

well i might just crack the joke on this one

since i dont see much skin on girls based on what you just said, could you blame me IF i was gay?


nah i see a lot of skin here..
infact few years ago a law got passed that women can go out topless

[Beacon]

Shame you dont like females then hey kovan?

"do you believe in anyshape or form that the way a girl dresses, or acts has influence on her being raped? "

No! Just coz a girl dresses in a sexy manner doesnt mean she wants to have sex!
Perhaps she likes the attention of the looks!
But it's still look but dont touch!


"whats wrong with saying they shouldnt go out in improper dresses? "
I thought you'd get it without me having to type heaps oh well.
The reporter than asked "What is improper dress?"
The female should be fully covered from head to toe etc. (cant recite it all)
Now i dont call that freedom i basic freedom is having the right to choose what to wear isnt it?
I mean they can still choose whether it's Sheridan bedsheets or not i spose!

But from what I saw even though you disbelieve in Honour killings they are frequent in Muslim countries and womens rights are not as free as in other countries!

"a girl being virgin is for herself
not her family "
Well you tell the ppl in this report!
I'm not making this crap up kovan i read about it and then there was a report on it!
Now i know you shouldnt believe all you read thats why i asked for someone too explain it to me!

[Beacon]

Oh no i have nothing against muslim people!
I dont discrimminate against race, colour or religion!

I just get real pissed when others do!
Or think that they can get away with things because of it.
You kno what i mean!

[kovan]

yes honour killing happens in muslim countries, and other countries as well, not just muslim countries
but it would be very wrong to label it as a islamic act because it is against Islam

No! Just coz a girl dresses in a sexy manner doesnt mean she wants to have sex!
Perhaps she likes the attention of the looks!
But it's still look but dont touch!

which one would a rapist go for
one who is fully covered from "head to toe"
or someone who is wearing a mini skirts with her tits hanging out?

Now i dont call that freedom i basic freedom is having the right to choose what to wear isnt it?
I mean they can still choose whether it's Sheridan bedsheets or not i spose!

do you feel that what you choose to wear is your freedom?
i would think so

Islam recommends a women to dress a certain way
and so it does have recommendation for men as well
now those that CHOOSE to cover themselves up
isnt that act of freedom?
to have a choice

i am sure you see many women cover themselves up in aussie
are they forced?
after all if they are forced and their freedom is being taken away from them, surely then can go to authorities..

more and more muslim women are covering themselves up in the western country
because THEY, not me, not another man, see its benefits of covering themselves up

Well you tell the ppl in this report!
I'm not making this crap up kovan i read about it and then there was a report on it!
Now i know you shouldnt believe all you read thats why i asked for someone too explain it to me!

I know your not making it up
i see it everyday
its the society sorrounding us
but we should not be so quick to judge
and think twice before we accept something from media

if your all that interested in knowing facts about Islam
i will be gladly answer any of your equestions

surely there is benefit in Islam for those that see the true side of Islam

Islam is the fasted growing religion in western countries, as well as the world
surely there is a reason for this
you can argue that in muslim countries they simply dont use birth pills, but what about Western countries
dont they have ALL the freedom rights (well almost all)
why are they choosing to go with Islam
now i am not here to preach Islam, but for those that do practice it, i am sure they see benefit in it or they wouldnt practice it

i have told this to many people
if you really want to hear womens right in islam
i am not the person to be explaining it
you should ask a woman who has covered herself
ask her why she has covered herself

she wont bite, trust me
just make sure you dont touch her or she will hang you by your balls (just some advice for ya)

but in all seriousness, if you want facts, you should go to the sources
not media
and we all have been victims of media

neverless, i am not pissed or anything
in anyway
i am simply discussing this (without getting all hyped up about it)
just passing on the correct information

[thinktank]

Why is it that none of the so called islamic countries come forward to ban taliban if it is anti-islamic ?

Something fishy here ..

[aknisely]

Well in that case Jack the ripper, timothy mcveigh and other killers/rapists should be still living today right??

"Should" is an interesting word. If they were in my ideal society, yes, they would not be executed.

under you beliefs i could go rape your sister, daughter, mother whomever and say whoops sorry and keep living normally.

Absolutely not, I had never suggested that you can keep living normally. I merely pointed out that you can keep living.

but still i dont think justice is served!

I'm very sorry you feel that way, but that's the way it is. You can't keep trying somebody until someone decides to execute them, that's judicial harassment.

[Beacon]

Aknisely:
When did i ever say they should be killed?????
Perhaps in the US and Canada they would be but not up here!
We dont execute people!
I was saying that life imprisonment or a long sentence in a maximum security jail would be appropriate.
I never said they should be killed!
Perhaps in your redneck country but not in ours! I for one arer happy we dont execute people!

Thinktank:
That my point i dont get it either!

Kovan:
Hmm ok far enough you seem to have answered my questions albeit very defensively!!

If you read my original question i was asking for someone to explain it to me not having a shot!

[aknisely]

When did i ever say they should be killed?????

I don't believe you have; I didn't say you did.

Perhaps in the US and Canada they would be but not up here!

Canada placed a moratorium on the death penalty in 1967, and abolished it in 1976. The United States of America is the only western country that actively executes people as a method of retribution.

I was saying that life imprisonment or a long sentence in a maximum security jail would be appropriate

So, what's your point exactly? Are you unsatisfied with the judgement? If so, how and in reference to which parts?

Perhaps in your redneck country but not in ours!

If you thought that Canada furnishes a penalty of death, perhaps you aren't very knowledgeable on the subject.

[Beacon]

Perhaps i'm not but i was persuming since you were arguing about killing them!!!

Also i mean canada - usa all the same!


"So, what's your point exactly? "

That they should be given harsher penalties!
And it will happen!
Havent you been reading at all!!
Or just make remarks that dont make any sense at all!

[aknisely]

Perhaps i'm not but i was persuming since you were arguing about killing them!!!

I'm beginning to think that you haven't read my posts at all. Try summarizing what I've said about the convicted rapists, then I'll tell you if you're correct.

Also i mean canada - usa all the same!

Not quite. Many of the United States currently use a death penalty, as well as the Federal Government. Canada does not.

That they should be given harsher penalties!

Why?

Havent you been reading at all!!
Or just make remarks that dont make any sense at all!

What are you talking about? Which of my comments haven't made sense?

[Beacon]

Your defending them bieng killed!
WHY??
I never said they should be! No-one is saying that they should!
Your arguing a point no-one has said anything about!

Why?
Because they got off lightly! Becasue of some plea bargain. That will change and it's for the better. They will get a chance of remittance but only after they pay there full dues for the crime they have committed!

[aknisely]

Your defending them bieng killed! WHY??

You referred to Timothy McVeigh's execution, and asked if I would have them killed. From that, I discerned that you were affirming his execution.

Because they got off lightly!

Of course they did, they're kids. You can't imprison kids for ten years at a time.

[chrisjk]

Originally posted by Beacon
In sydney Australia 3 LEBANESE boys

For some reason, first time I read that I though it said LESBIAN. I was like, ***??! Lesbian Boys?!?!

[Beacon]

Yep chris Lesbian boys!
Cant get anough of those girls

Aknisely:
Was just an example!

"Of course they did, they're kids. You can't imprison kids for ten years at a time."

Old enough to have sex old enough to know what is wrong about it!
They knew what they were doing!
They should be punished accordingly!

[aknisely]

Was just an example!

For what? I still don't understand how your example relates to whatever point you were trying to make.

Old enough to have sex old enough to know what is wrong about it!
They knew what they were doing!
They should be punished accordingly!

Children aren't treated the same as adults, and there's a reason for that. If you can't understand why we have segregation between kids and adults in terms of legal retribution, you probably never will.

[nishantp]

I am willing to accept that what Aphganistan does is against Islam. Fine, thats not what I blaim islam for. What i am forced to wonder about though...is how are they able to make the claim that everything they do is under the code if Islamic law? Its not possible to come up with this kind of BS for any other faith. Sure there have been great empires and countries that have done some questionable things...but their exploits were not based on religon. The taliban are able to make the claim that they are following Islam. Its impossible to make such a claim and do such things for say Judaiism or Christianity.