MS is trying to kill VB!

**Jotaf98** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:21 PM

Hey, guess what: just after releasing VB.NET, Microsoft announced that it would be better to use C# (C Sharp) instead of VB

Someone posted about this at The Nexus... http://www.thenexus.bc.ca/ ... I'm not sure if it's true, but it's a very bad thing to do to a programming language.

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:27 PM

C# basically is Java; I haven't met anybody who actually uses C#.

**chrisjk** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:29 PM

Thats crap. MS won't do that, it's got the largest programming community of any language, and it's a gold mine for them. Dumping it would just be dumb.

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by chrisjk
it's got the largest programming community of any language

Well, I doubt that (C++ probably is), but I also doubt that MS would try to kill VB.

**JungleMan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by filburt1
C# basically is Java; I haven't met anybody who actually uses C#.

DUH, that's because C# is still in beta.

chenko · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:32 PM

not this again!?!??!?!

this happend around nukem time

it wont happen....

**chrisjk** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by filburt1

Well, I doubt that (C++ probably is)

Well you doubt wrong then don't you.

**JungleMan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 07:36 PM

VB is a much bigger community.that's why pay is lower

**abdul** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:01 PM

JM2C:

I think that C# is ALMOST as hard as C++. But lots of people like to learn and work with the easy programming language like vb.
You can still see that vb has has way more posts than C++ or any other programming language

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:05 PM

MS might try to kill vb and use c# insteaad
why? well they have a war againts Java
and you my friends are soldiers for MS
if you use c#, it will eventually win the battle againts java
MS doesnt care about you
it cares about getting rid of java
and yes vb has a VERY large community
a lof of soldiers for MS
hell i will even be the general for ms, just to get rid of java

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:09 PM

...in favor of C# over Java are you? Have you even written programs in both languages?

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:12 PM

yes i have written in java
i havent written in c# (well just diddling)
why would i like c#? its about 80% of the speed of c++
where as java is like 10

and another reason, i am pro MS

i want sun to go down the drain, they complain and whine a LOT
a lot like some members on here, i wont say names.. well then again i will (honeybee and aknisely)

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:13 PM

The Java VM's speed is a myth; unless you are calculating Pi, it is suffient for most tasks.

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:15 PM

filly boy, doesnt really matter if its sufficent
its about which one is faster
sorry but i dont want to start another war about java with you
we did that already

but i am pro ms, and i want java gone

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:18 PM

Think: Java is supported by MS (sort of). C# is only supported by one company, and will probably only have one IDE, one compiler--wait, this sounds like VB hell! With Java, at least you can choose what you want to use to work with your code and you're not stuck with one company.

MS might have done a good job with VB (at least the IDE), but, like all MS products, it is insanely overpriced. Java can be done free (JBuilder 5 Personal is a free IDE that comes with a JDK compiler).

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by filburt1
Think: Java is supported by MS (sort of). C# is only supported by one company, and will probably only have one IDE, one compiler--wait, this sounds like VB hell! With Java, at least you can choose what you want to use to work with your code and you're not stuck with one company.

MS might have done a good job with VB (at least the IDE), but, like all MS products, it is insanely overpriced. Java can be done free (JBuilder 5 Personal is a free IDE that comes with a JDK compiler).

Java is not supported by MS, it went down the drain, java is not included in XP

c# is handed over to a external body, with the rest of .NET
there for it will be standerdized

all i know is that MS got lotsa soldiers to fight their battle for them
now they have to convince their soldiers that its worth the battle
i really do hate java, with a passion

so i guess anything that tries to put it down, i am up for it

**SteveCRM** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:27 PM

Sun won't go away! Just because of their cool ID tags!!!!

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by SteveCRM
Sun won't go away! Just because of their cool ID tags!!!!

well i didnt think it would
if i got everything i wished for
this world would be in a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD shape

**Jotaf98** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:31 PM

I don't believe the actually kill VB, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped making new versions...

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:32 PM

Java is not supported by MS, it went down the drain, java is not included in XP

You can download the VM for IE.

c# is handed over to a external body, with the rest of .NET
there for it will be standerdized

Standardization with the .NET Framework is nice, but it is standardized according to other MS languages.

all i know is that MS got lotsa soldiers to fight their battle for them
now they have to convince their soldiers that its worth the battle
i really do hate java, with a passion

so i guess anything that tries to put it down, i am up for it

Also known as lawyers.

I think Java GUI programming is stupid compared to the way you do it in VB, but the language itself is awesome, and, IMHO, better than VB's language.

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Jotaf98
I don't believe the actually kill VB, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped making new versions...

i highly doubt they will kill any of it, and i think they will keep making new version
until they have convinced everyone to use c#, or cripple java like they did to netscape (THANK YOU MICROSOFT)

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:35 PM

You can download the VM for IE.

yes, but java is no longer "cross-platform"
thats the point, java's main slogan is gone down the drain

MANY end users dont even know what java is
and wouldnt probably bother downloading a WOOPING 5 mb file

**filburt1** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by kovan
cripple java like they did to netscape (THANK YOU MICROSOFT)

At least we agree on one thing.

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:40 PM

one of the greatest things ms has done... uncle bill does good things

**aknisely** · Sep 6th, 2001, 08:41 PM

So Netscape couldn't compete. Grab a blankey and cry yourself to sleep.

**5speed** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:34 PM

To all those Gates Lovers -
What are you guys smoking? VB is the easiest, stupiedest language ever, and one has to turn off there brain to use it. There are too many built in functions and methods, that it defeats the reason to program.
Also MS hates java, since it thought that it would be a bust as with the internet, but it wasn't. So being the business people they are they took there time incorporating java into thier os.

Ever wonder why NO UNIVERSITIES TEACH VB? Only tech schools, or community colleges? because its too easy, we skipped C and C++ also. But hmm, we did learn Java, I wonder why? Because that language is challenging as in objects and such and manuplating them. And more businesses is using java and other non pathetic MS languages to do complicated programs. In my opinion VB is only good for begginging programmers, and those who are only in it for the money as it makes it hardly a chelledge.

Why do you guys like MS so much anyways?

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:36 PM

so now java is superior to c++?

**5speed** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:41 PM

of course it is, it was built after C++. Sun just put the same type of syntax so it would get popular faster. As far as my understanding goes. The only down side of Java is the memory, but you can do so much.

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:45 PM

just with that first sentence, i shall call not argue with you
at least other java lovers dont put it over c++

**aknisely** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:45 PM

Ever wonder why NO UNIVERSITIES TEACH VB?

Because it isn't a low-level, theoretical language. Computer science deals with the development of technology, and discovering new programming techniques and theories. You don't understand the distinction between theory and application.

You don't study physics to build a bridge, you study engineering. Physicists and engineers are two different lines of work, each building on each other's experience and research. A physicist isn't better than an engineer, and vise-versa; yet, without the other, each job would be pointless and/or impossible.

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:48 PM

its interesting
University of Western Ontario its one of the biggest, if not biggest universities in Canada and North America
yet they teach java...
most of my buddies take CS at this univ..
i swear on my LIFE, more than 70% of these people cant write a program
because ALL they learn is theory
so what good is that?
and my college students gets jobs MUCH faster and much better jobs than what these people get
infact some of them dont get jobs at all

**5speed** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:51 PM

I'm not saying one is better then the other. Thats not the point at all. Besides engineers study physics.
"don't understand the distinction between theory and application. "

Then why do I have to learn OS? and program stupid address book databases and userinterfaces? Learn graphics? etc..

**kovan** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:53 PM

if java is better than c++
why isnt Sun building a OS with it that will kick Windows out of the water?

man i cant believe i am even arguing with someone that puts c++ over java

so i will stop

----
End

**5speed** · Sep 6th, 2001, 10:57 PM

You do learn way too much theory, but that is because the languages change so frequently that if you have a good sound background then it is easy to pick up other languages. A tree is a tree, a list is a list etc. Going to school isn't about learning programming as much as learning how to think. Every class is all about problem solving and learning how to think logically.
The downfall of going to school, is that I think they are more students there doing it to get rich, and that is why they suck at programming. Then again, Csci isn't all about programming either, and there are many different career ops.

**5speed** · Sep 6th, 2001, 11:01 PM

Why, and how could sun build a more popular os? Can't be done, windows got the advertising, made the deals, and got the market. Sun is more for companies anyways, they dont market for the home pc user.
Microsoft has the name, so it will not matter how any os system compares. As they have been better ones in the past, yet didn't hit it off. Its the same with Intel and AMD, AMD beats them on some of there processors and yet Intel gets the business. They have the name.

**aknisely** · Sep 6th, 2001, 11:09 PM

Thats not the point at all. Besides engineers study physics.

Engineers have a concept of physics. But their job isn't to sudy physics as indepth as a physicist. Their job is to take what the physicists have done and turn it into something useful.

Then why do I have to learn OS? and program stupid address book databases and userinterfaces? Learn graphics? etc..

Because computer science graduates were complaining that they couldn't get any high paying jobs; they weren't learning enough about practical business applications.

**HarryW** · Sep 7th, 2001, 04:44 AM

i am pro MS
i want sun to go down the drain

I suspected it all along, but now I'm sure. You are the antichrist.

You don't go to university to learn how to write C code, or java code, or VB code, or any specific kind of code. You do it to learn the constructs and patterns that go into making software. That's just the software part though, you also learn about the architecture of web, networking, AI, computer- and business-relevant maths, databases, operating systems.... the list goes on. It's not about learning specifics, it's about building a solid educational framework which will allow you to learn what you need to learn when you need to learn it, easily. Specifics come from on-the-job training.

**filburt1** · Sep 7th, 2001, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by kovan
so now java is superior to c++?

You can't compare them; they each have their own unique purposes. In the Windows sense, C++ can access the API, so it makes it "better" than Java, but Java can run ANYWHERE without a need for the API, so it makes it "better" than C++.

**parksie** · Sep 7th, 2001, 07:01 AM

Java's speed isn't really a big part of the equation. It's the fact that, when written *properly*, it runs everywhere.

I had great fun playing with CORBA - server in Java on Linux, clients in C++ and Java on Windows

That is what Java does, and which is why it's good.

And yes, .NET is supposed to do this, and if it did I'd be very happy. It's just I doubt the framework will be released for anything other than Windows.

**RSINGH** · Sep 7th, 2001, 07:23 AM

And more businesses is using java and other non pathetic MS languages to do complicated programs. In my opinion VB is only good for begginging programmers, and those who are only in it for the money as it makes it hardly a chelledge.

Complete utter bollox.

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