Building a computer...

[tim_l_012]

OK. I need to make a computer. All I need it to do is run a game... (Transport Tycoon Deluxe) It requires:

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IBM PC 486-25Mhz or better with at least 4 MB of RAM

CD-ROM drive (the game can be run without a CD, however, if all the files are manually moved to the hard drive)
Hard drive with at least 4MB of free space for a minimal install

Mouse with at least version 8.2 of the Microsoft mouse driver

VESA-compatible SVGA card and monitor supporting 640x480 mode in 256 colors

MS-DOS 5.0 or better (although I'm sure other non-Microsoft DOS such as DR-DOS or FreeDOS would work)
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How much will it cost me ($AUS) to get this going??

I want to play against my friends, but the game only supports serial or parralel play...

Thanks All,

[goudabuddha]

In the US that would cost you about $50, assuming you buy a nice little case for it. That's the kind of thing you'd find at a garage sale or the Salvation Army. It wont run you much.

[sunnyl]

I would say no more than AUD$200.

Building it could be a bit of a problem, because you'd have to dig up all the bits and pieces to the thing.

I'm not sure about Adelaide, but Sydney always has some sort of computer fair here and there monthly or weekly. You can check out those places. I've seen 486DX/66 m/b with CPU go for AU$10!

[tim_l_012]

so far I have a HDD, Keyboard, mouse and half a case.

I need motherboard video card and sound card. How much for those (what else do I need?)

[tim_l_012]

Hey, I just found a site... www.pcrecyclers.net
are the prices there good??

[sunnyl]

The prices there sound ok, like $9 for a DX2/66

The video and sound card will depend on if the motherboard has PCI, which alot of the older 486 m/bs don't have. Try and get yourself a old SB16 for a sound card, since they come pretty cheap nowdays.

[tim_l_012]

thanks sunny!

OK, how does this motherboard look??

http://www.pcrecyclers.net/showproduct.asp?ProductID=66

thanks for your help.

[sunnyl]

It sounds alright for a 486 motherboard! The price is ok too, though I'd for $50 there are cheaper ones. Though, it doesn't say if its new or not (well, 'recyclers' so I guess not), ask 'what if its faulty?', also you want to check its BIOS limitations on the largest HDD it can take, and how many IDE channels it has (probably 2 dual fifo ones), and assorted bits and pieces like FDD/IDE cables.

[tim_l_012]

thanks, I will contact them soon, and ask about the motherboards capabilities.. thanks sunny.

What else do I need in my new PC, so far I have..

Hard Drive (120MB )
KeyBoard (Non-PS2)
Mouse (Serial)
Floppy Drive (1.44 MB, 3.5)
IDE Cables..

What do I need??

(apart from motherboard, cpu, fan??)

Is it worth getting a heatsink and overclocking it?

[sunnyl]

FDD cable. Check that you have enough screws, etc, with your tower. Check that m/b is the right size for the tower you have. Sometimes the power cables don't come with the PSU in the tower, so watch for that as well.

[tim_l_012]

Thanks. I was looking in the shed, and I found a FDD Cable and another half case.

I'm just looking on some auction sites for cases and video cards?? anything I should look out for?? what type of case does the motherboard (http://www.pcrecyclers.net/showproduct.asp?ProductID=66) require??

Thanks,

[sunnyl]

It says on the site: Baby AT Form Factor (Fits in Standard AT Cases)

Since I don't know what your tower is like, you'll have to measure it, and check it against a baby AT form factor spec sheet (don't have one on me, but they should be downloadable from most m/b manufacturer sites).

Also, find out how the m/b is fixed inside the tower (that depends on the tower) and that you still have to screws and pieces to get it in there.

There should be anything in particular for graphics cards, just remember you are getting a m/b with PCI so might as well get a PCI graphics card.

[tim_l_012]

thanks. I was just wondering what i the difference between:

a) PCI and AGP (video cards)
b) ISA and PCI (motherboards)

Thanks,

[tim_l_012]

Hey, I was just looking through an auction site(www.bidorbuy.com.au) and I saw this item..

http://www.bidorbuy.com.au/jsp/BidFo...TradeId=735170

Have a look and tell me why it is soooo cheap??

Thanks,

p.s: anyone got anything on ISA --> PCI --> AGP??

[sunnyl]

AGP - Accelerated Graphics Port - this is a new type of interface that is dedicated to 3D graphics by using main system memory.

PCI - Peripheral Component Interconnect - multi-purpose interface, not dedicated to anything. Usually runs at 20-33 MHz. Its 32 bit. A PCI graphics card just means its designed to be connected to a PCI slot on the motherboard.

ISA - Industry Standard Architecture is one the 'originals'. Its 16 bit, most older interface cards uses ISA, and some still do. ISA cards are a pain to config, as most don't support PnP.

[sunnyl]

i740 is not exactly a top notch card. Its OEM (original equipment manufacturer), scrapping any warranty if you buy it yourself. And probably because its in auction

But its AGP, and a 486 m/b won't have that.

[tim_l_012]

so more PCI slots is better??

What are some good second hand online stores that would sell cheap PC's?? thanks for all your help sunny, you have cleared a lot of things up.. now, what are some second hand stores??

Thanks,

[sunnyl]

Yup, PCI is better than ISA, but you probably won't find a PCI only 486 m/b, as ISA was still preferred as the standard in the 486 days.

I'd have to pass on the second hand shops though, I don't shop online.

[tim_l_012]

is it worth paying the $20 extra for the pentium pro board??

what slots will:

-- 1 network card
-- 1 video card
-- 1 sound card
-- 1 printer port
-- 1 mouse port

need? I have about $70, will I get all the parts required??

Thanks,

[tim_l_012]

will a 486DX2 processor go onto a pentium pro motherboard??

[sunnyl]

If you are using purely for the game, then there would be no point, since a 486 will run it quite happily.

I doubt $70 will get you all the parts you want. Though with second hand its likely. If you are sticking on the budget side of things, then ISA is cheaper, but more trouble.

NIC - ISA or PCI, about $15 - $50 (new, PCI), 10/100MBs

Graphics - PCI, definitely, just to future proof yourself, about $50 -$80 for a 8MB PCI card (new), but varies alot depending on the card. You might be able to salvage some old ISA 2MB Trident cards from old old old computers.

Sound Card - ISA would do, SB16 or some compatible generic ones would do. Its not like you need spectacular sound systems here.

Printer Port (parallel port) is built in into the motherboard (usually one of them). Mouse port would be a serial port with older 486 computers. There are usually 2 of them.

[tim_l_012]

you said earlier that ISA is very hard to configure??

what did u mean by that??

[sunnyl]

Most ISA devices don't support PnP (plug and play), which means that you have to manually config the jumpers on the device to use an IRQ (Interrupt Request) that is not in use by another device in the computer (go Device Manager, and double click on "My Computer", then "Interrupt Request"). In the case of PCI, the devices can be configure by the OS when it detects it (btw, since some ISA devices aren't PnP, they can't be auto detected by the OS), hence 'plug and play'.

But its more well known to be plug and pray.

[tim_l_012]

OK. Lets say that I have all the parts, what will happen when I turn it on??

(my drive has win3.1 installed on it.)

[sunnyl]

If all is well (every thing installed properly), then you will boot into windows, as normal.

[tim_l_012]

just lookin' at the board, it says it takes 72 Pin RAM...
is that EDO or fastpage??

thanks

[sunnyl]

I'd say EDO, considering it supports DX2s which have a 66 bus

[tim_l_012]

Do I need to get the network cards? or can I just use serial cables somehow??

Thanks to anyone who replies.

[JungleMan]

some dx2s use FPM

[sunnyl]

I just reasoned it because the board could go up to 133, supports 586s and has a decent number of PCI slots


If you plan to connect the computer to a network, then you will need a network card. Since USB wasn't around when the 486 m/b was made, you can't really use a USB ethernet adapter.

[JungleMan]

Maybe I'm missing something but why so much effort just for a 486 that will play a game? They sell 486s in the paper for about 40 bucks..

I like custom building but I don't see a big use in building on such a small scale with old equipment..

[tim_l_012]

At the moment I don't have very much money. I am only 14, and I am looking for a way to get into the IT industry in my area(somehow)

anyway, Once I get a job somewhere, I will be upgrading the 486, until I have a P4 2Ghz.....

But at the moment I make about $10 a week from selling programs to my friends, the types of programs I sell are:

History Cleaning Programs
File Encryption programs (especially images )
Fun Viruses (by that I mean they don't harm the PC, just freak out the user once... ie..

Don't run this, It will slow your PC down till it stops...

Private Sub Form_Load()

Dim frmNew as new Form1
frmNew.show

End Sub

anyway, so I get money, I upgrade, I install new stuff, etc...

So.. I need something to start with, and If I start from scratch, I will know how to upgrade properly..



ps Does anyone know how much it costs to deliver something from Victoria (Australia) to Adelaide (Australia)??

Thanks,

[JungleMan]

i still think you're spending a lot more money for no reason...

And i highly advise against a pentium 4, as Athlons, although they are clocked lower, outperform 2ghz p4s.

[tim_l_012]

well, I agree and disagree.

I wouldn't mind an Athlon.... but, I have used pentiums, for the whole 14 years of my life, and I don't intending on changing just yet.

What is the bus speed of an Athlon??

[JungleMan]

133mhz, however DDR memory runs on a 266mhz bus..sure rambus is higher but that's just about the only benefit of a p4, and even that is being phased out, besides rambus is such a POS company

Up until AMD released the Athlon, P2 used to kick the K6-2's a$$, and so on..but then AMD made a great comeback with Athlon.

I am sure i can find many many people who will second this opinion.

[aknisely]

I like custom building but I don't see a big use in building on such a small scale with old equipment..

What, you too good for my 386?

[sunnyl]

tim, Australia Post's package pricing is depends on weight and if its express. You can ask your local post office for a pricing booklet.

[scoutt]

ok I am a little confused here. why build a computer that will run this game and this game only when apparently you are on a faster one right now on this forum. that 486 is the lowest (as in specs ) you need to run that game as it will run on any computer out today.

Plus if you built a 486 you will not be able to upgrade it as the technology we have today will not work in that box.

if you run that game networded on a serial or parallel cable it will be so slow you will want to throw it away.

[tim_l_012]

i want to be able to play Transport Tycoon against my bro, but I only had one PC (until today)


OK. I have aquired a AMD466DX2 (thats what it says on the chipset)
I got it for $10 but it is missing a HDD, Ram, and the IDE/FDD Cables.


1) The socket is a socket 3... I have no idea what the difference is what ram do I need?

2) How much space does Win3.1 need for a full install???

thanks,