Post Race!

[dday9]

I know that y'all have a parliament that seems to do most(if not all) of the law making and what have you.

[Gruff]

I once read a SciFi short story about a society that sentenced convicted felons to n number of terms as a politicians.

They wore plastic explosive collars tied to voting booths. Too many negative votes... Boom!
voting was real time all the time.

They were let us say... motivated to do the will of the people.

[Shaggy Hiker]

That isn't always the right thing.

[dday9]

I once read a SciFi short story about a society that sentenced convicted felons to n number of terms as a politicians.

That's non-fiction, the continent is called Australia.

[Gruff]

I guess I have always been puzzled by what motivates a politician.

Is it about making the world a better safer place for our children, making cities, states more efficient and doing good public works. Listening to the people.

or

Lining their pockets for retirement, junkets and other forms of gratuities or climbing the ladder of power for its own sake. Photo opts, Etc...

I realize that one is not necessarily polarized to one side or the other, but the latter behavior is not difficult to spot.

Lastly I have a personal grudge against anyone who acts like they are entitled to positions of power. They could usually care less what is best for the public.

[dday9]

Lastly I have a personal grudge against anyone who acts like they are entitled to positions of power. They could usually care less what is best for the public.

I go one step further and extended it from entitlement to positions of power to entitlement period.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I wouldn't. Anybody who doesn't feel at least SOME sense of entitlement seems like a pretty miserable person. Even if all you feel entitled to is life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and an occasional sushi dinner, that's still some sense of entitlement.

Motivations are all over the board, naturally. They also change over time. I would guess that relatively few people get into politics for power or money, but some will find those to be desirable perks of the job. Once in politics, there is also an expectation and opportunity for advancement. Just like in any other career, you can move up the ladder to higher and higher jobs. Generally speaking, either US senate or governorships are the pinnacle, with relatively few then considering running for president (a job that is universally recognized to be a mixed blessing, at best).

When my mother was in the state legislature, she was something of a rising start. People were shocked when she dropped out. I was even pretty surprised, but she felt that she knew too much about too many people and just didn't want to do that anymore. So, my parents joined the Peace Corps for a few years and went to Papua New Guinea. That's about as far from US politics as you can reasonably get. Still, she was in the game for 10 years, and I learned a whole lot about it during that time.

Politics is both dirtier and less dirty than people realize. It's a fascinating game for those involved, which includes close observers. For those looking on from outside, it can be frustrating, messy, corrupt, or all of the above, but from the inside, I would say it is made up of a bunch of people who generally liked debating in high school, and decided to make a career out of it.

[dday9]

I wouldn't. Anybody who doesn't feel at least SOME sense of entitlement seems like a pretty miserable person. Even if all you feel entitled to is life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and an occasional sushi dinner, that's still some sense of entitlement.

I did forget about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those are inalienable rights that every person in the world should be entitled to.

However, any other entitlements get under my skin. Even the well deserved sushi dinner. While you may or may not have worked hard towards that sushi dinner, nothing entitles you to get it.

My anger, or grudge as gruff put it, stems from welfare entitlement. There are many who genuinely believe that they are entitled to some form of welfare because they are poor(SNAP), mother(WIC), or disabled(SSI). And more so when they complain when the welfare does not fully replace their food/dairy/income. Those welfare items are suppose to be a supplement, not a replacement. Movements like http://www.foodstamped.com/ really get under my skin because of this.

[Shaggy Hiker]

That's a movement? It looks like a documentary aimed at increasing food stamps, but I didn't watch it.

I'd have to say that I'm really reluctant to get too fired up about this. I have somebody who forwards on every right-wing, wackjob, chain email that comes her way. Naturally, that's not all she forwards, and I do like her sense of humor (though very few of those jokes and pictures would get by the AUP for this site). However, having now seen a goodly number of the right-wing stuff, I'm just not sure that I believe in the debate anymore. The one thing I am certain of is that there are lots of people who are abusing the system. There is also a considerable amount of right-wing stuff going around making this out to be a horrible crisis of lazy people (usually black, lazy people, too).

There are issues with the system we have, and there are people who fit whatever profile you choose to use. Whether it is the people who pull themselves up off of welfare who get the press, or those who don't, seems to depend more on the point of view of the people doing the writing.

The one thing that I do think is broken is the disability clause, which was partially a result of welfare reform in the 90s. The problem with that is that fraud is VERY hard to figure out in lots of those cases. However, once you are on it, you can't get off of it easily because to do so you would have to say a chronic condition suddenly isn't chronic anymore.

[Shaggy Hiker]

One point I would add is that every such system HAS to have fraud. That's simple economics coupled with game theory. For each individual, life is just a series of choices. I could be rich had I chosen differently, I could also be crippled and on the dole, had I chosen less wisely. We all get these choices, and none of us have all the information about how our choices will turn out. We do the best we can with what we have, which in some cases isn't much. Naturally, some people will try to advance their position through illegal means. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't really need laws.

If you have less enforcement, the benefits of illegal actions rise relative to the costs. If you have more enforcement, the costs rise against the benefits. Everybody will make their choices in life with whatever understanding of the cost/benefit they happen to have.

Furthermore, enforcement costs money. To root out every bit of fraud would cost so much that we couldn't afford it. So, there has to be a balance between the cost of the enforcement and the cost of the fraud. I would say that enforcement costs should be set at slightly above the losses to fraud. We are in that vicinity currently, but things are changing. The cost of enforcement may be dropping, which would mean that we could drive down more fraud for the same amount of money. That would be good.

[Shaggy Hiker]

A further point is that our anger over somebody else getting away with something is really primal. The same anger has been shown in chimps.

Suppose I decided to supplement my income by selling drugs. There would be a certain risk involved, both of losing my life early, as well as losing everything I have and ending up incarcerated. Being a cautious guy, I might do better than the average drug dealer, but the risk would still be higher than it is for my current profession. I haven't chosen to be a drug dealer, and I probably have less money for it

So, should I be angry at the drug dealer who flashes lots of cash, girls, etc., since he "got away with something."? Should I feel avenged if he gets shot down in some gang war? Well, I don't. I chose the life I lead and I'm pretty happy with it. They made other choices. I neither envy them their success, nor feel vindicated if they fail.

Similarly, how should I feel towards somebody who could work, but is on welfare instead? I've never met anybody on food stamps or welfare of any sort that I envied. Perhaps some of them were defrauding the government and leaching off of society. I've probably met some who were in that state. I still don't care, because I still haven't met even one where I thought their life to be enviable. It's not a matter of feeling superior, I just see other choices that others have made and they don't appear any better than the ones I made. Perhaps I should complain about the extra cost to me for supporting them, but I don't. Frankly, I don't pay all that much, and I'm well aware that the primary determinant of my personal wealth is not taxes, it's me and the choices I have made. I'm happy with those choices, so I'm content with the result.

People want to rile up the troops, but it's just speaking to that primitive part of our animal brain that feels aggrieved when anybody gets something that we think they didn't deserve. It's the old grade school complaint, "It's not fair!". In the end, we are all worm food. You can spend your life getting worked up over somebody else getting a perceived edge, you can spend your life trying to right that wrong, or you can do something else. They are all viable choices and you can move from one to the next. In the end, we're still just worm food.

[FunkyDexter]

Does the monarchy do anything in the UK?

Shakes hands and waves. It's a very important function.

Australia

You've spelt that wrong. It's spelt "Straiyah".

[Shaggy Hiker]

With a hard A...............................and a silent Q.

[homer13j]

Impressive win by the Buckeyes last night. Too bad LSU couldn't put away Auburn when they had the chance...

[Gruff]

Whenever I hear the word 'Buckeyes' I think of this.

Attachment 120683

[Shaggy Hiker]

That's an odd thing to think of.

[Gruff]

This coming from a talking fern in a pot. Or are those fish?

[Shaggy Hiker]

A fine bouquet of fish, Rocket.

[Gruff]

Out of curiosity where does the image come from?
Is it biblical as in: Loaves and Fishes?

[homer13j]

39 years ago today a Great Lakes ore freighter sank in Lake Superior so some Canadian guy could write a hit song about it.



6 days ago a guy named Ed Fitzgerald suffered a historic defeat in his run for governor of Ohio. Coincidence?

[dday9]

6 days ago a guy named Ed Fitzgerald suffered a historic defeat in his run for governor of Ohio. Coincidence?

This picture sums up everything:

[Gruff]

As far as I know Fitz was added to a father's first name to produce a surname.
It simply means "Son of". Allen son of Robert would take the name Allen FitzRobert.

I find it odd a ship would be named Edmund son of Gerald.
As if one could give birth to something made of steel.

Unless of course your a son of a gun.

[homer13j]

Speaking of aliens, there's a phrase being uttered around town today that is completely alien to me. I know I've heard these words before, but it's been so long they just don't seem to make any sense in a modern context. It's like we're in a dream and we're all just waiting to wake up and confront reality. But it's not a dream. It is reality:

"The Cleveland Browns are in first place"

Yeah, I know... weird, isn't it?

[dday9]

Somehow the Saints are 1 in our division, even though we lost last night's game AND we're 4 and 5!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Out of curiosity where does the image come from?
Is it biblical as in: Loaves and Fishes?

The inspiration came from a 70's or 80's issue of Mad Magazine. I was working on a program that dealt with fish data and wanted a logo for it. My conclusion was that I suck at art, which I knew ahead of time, so it wasn't much of a conclusion. Still, I liked the idea, and the image is good enough for an avatar.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Speaking of aliens, there's a phrase being uttered around town today that is completely alien to me. I know I've heard these words before, but it's been so long they just don't seem to make any sense in a modern context. It's like we're in a dream and we're all just waiting to wake up and confront reality. But it's not a dream. It is reality:

"The Cleveland Browns are in first place"

Yeah, I know... weird, isn't it?

It's hard to comprehend, but not much harder to comprehend than that whole division. The NFC South is easier to comprehend: They all suck, so SOMEBODY has to be in first place.

[dday9]

The NFC South is easier to comprehend: They all suck, so SOMEBODY has to be in first place.

What's crazy is that a lot of people were projecting the Saints to get to at least the semi-finals this year even after our first two losses.

[Shaggy Hiker]

They still might, but they tend to lose on the road. Since they are sure to be no better than the third seed in the conference, they'll be playing at home in the wild card round, so they could win the first one then go on the road and lose.

[dday9]

What I'm most surprised at is to see how much of a bust Atlanta is. They started off their season with a solid 2-0, but since then they've only one game.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'm a bit surprised at just how bad all of those teams other than Jacksonville is. I expected the other three to be much more competitive than they are. NO has had issues on the road, but they have enough offensive weapons to do well on any given week, and the defense wasnt' terrible last year. This year, they are mediocre in all aspects of the game, it seems, despite having a fair number of weapons.

Tampa lacked a reliable quarterback and had a few other holes, but I didn't think they'd be THIS bad. As for Atlanta, they tend to fall short every year. Stinking up the place is new, though.

[dday9]

I don't follow them, but the biggest surprise to me is Oakland. No wins so far is surprising.

[dday9]

I like the post race.

[dday9]

I need this:

[Gruff]

Sorry I guess my eyes are so poor or I am not dweeb enough to get the joke.
What is the device?

[dday9]

It's a pc disguised as an N64

[Shaggy Hiker]

That makes me realize that I may never have even seen an N64.

[dday9]

Old farts

[dday9]

Hmm I wonder how smilies appear on VBForums

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[homer13j]

Old farts

This was the one game I always kicked ass... but not enough to fork out $1200 to relive it all again:

Very Nice Original Galaga Arcade game

[dday9]

I was pretty good at Galaga. We actually had an "Arcade" N64 game which had Galaga, Galaxy, Dig Dug, Pole Position, and Pac-Man.