All:

Ok. I think the first thing I have to do is define what I mean when I say "CREATE". The thread has shown me that what I am talking about and what you have been talking about are 2 different things....

When I say the word CREATE... I mean it like when we build a computer. We work out its schematics, where everything goes, what everything does and we put it together.

We ARE after all talking about the CREATION of an Artificial Intelligence... which means to CREATE it we need to work out exactly what it does like a computer....

So when I say the Created can never outdo the Creator I am talking in this context.

Questions of giving birth to a child, or educating someone or in any other way effecting an ALREADY SENTIENT being is NOT what I mean when I say creation.

Now perhaps I should use the word "CONSTRUCT" instead... Would that make it easier for us to both be talking about the same thing?!?!

Sam:

YOU were the one that asked me to explain randomness... Why then do you jump to the conclusion that my whole argument from the beginning was about randomness when it was YOU who prompted me for this!?!?

Think about it for a moment. Human beings are either 1 of 2 things :

1. A creation of God

This means we will NEVER be able to create TRUE AI because God won't let his little creations start tinkering with his job.

2. A Random occurance... One in a Zillion!!!

This means that if it took a Zillion tries for the Universe to create Sentient Life, WE would take a Zillion tries to get Artificial Life.

Once again... BOTH of them suggest that there will never be a TRUE creation of "Human-Engineered-Artificial-Intelligence" that replicates our own sentience.

Can I spell it out any clearer than that!?!? Or do you have something new to add to the mix?

But as this is out creator it is obviously more intellegent than us.
Oh now THIS I love!!!

WHY does it have to be more intelligent? Why does it have to have intelligence at all? You whole contradictory argument here falls completely on its face at this flaw.

Humanity was created by the universe... NOT as a carefully constructed entity but simply as a reaction to its own environment... a one in a Zillion occurance. There is no intelligence involved. The universe is NOT a CREATOR because a CREATOR is something sentient that DECIDED to make the creation....

That would be like saying that the wind CREATES the waves, that it thinks to itself "Mmmm... I think I would like to SHAPE this water to be what I shall call a WAVE". Now I am sure you will say that it DOES "create" the wave... but I remind you to look at the definition of creation again.

Sam, I would suggest you speak with a few scientists... their methodology has always been about disproof. Theories ONLY gain credibility when they have stood up to scrutiny NOT because someone has come up with a self-satisfying proof

Lets take your 1 + 1 = 2 for example :

Is that PROOF? Is it even REAL!?!?

I say NO.

1 lump of Clay + 1 lump of Clay = 1 BIGGER Lump of Clay.

What's this!?!?

Have I found that your 1 + 1 <> 2!!!!!

But then again... 1 + 1 = 2 is only a mathematical "DEFINITION"... a "RULE" that we have come up with. Rules are NEVER proved or disproved because there is nothing to prove them against.

Cbomb:
Belief in a higher power is a mental deficiency. At some point *SOME* Human beings are incable to intellectually functioning unless they can place the responsibility and PURPOSE of their existance to a higher power. Of course it must be DISPROVABLE!!! If it wasn't then they couldn't use it as a crutch now could they.

Kedaman:
we fight because we wan't power (and religion means power)
Religious people ALSO say "Power Corrupts". Does this mean that people who are religious actively "FIGHT" because they WANT to be corrupted!?!?!

Be careful in your words, you say you believe in God and yet what you are saying here is that Religion is something to be "WIELDED" and not something to BELIEVE in.

BTW Gen-x, What is force of nature?
There are 4 Forces in the Universe... and ONLY 4. These are what controls and governs EVERYTHING within our universe.

1. Magnetism
2. Gravity
3. Weak Chemical Bond
4. Strong Atomic Bond

It is the interaction of these forces that cause atoms, molecules and particles to behave in relation to each other... These are the "forces of Nature".

then why can't you disproove even something in my theory?
Which theory is that? Give me one clear and consise theory with your postulations and I will point out a flaw in one of those postulations if it exists... if it doesn't that means your theory will hold (until some point in the future when MORE is known about it... after all, the earth was the centre of the universe for over 300 years)