VB6 is DEAD!

[Niya]

Internally I have a lot of classes that manage operations. So things are easy to find because I follow good OOP techniques.

See that's the thing. In VB.Net I can organize large apps into classes with similar functionality grouped together. I even use folders as a grouping when there are too many class files so everything is neatly organized into a hierarchical manner which makes it quite easy to find specific things. But JavaScript as far as I know doesn't allow you to define classes. Sure you can create objects with its duck typing capability but statically defined classes provides a measure of order to code.

[szlamany]

First class functions look like classes to me. This one is a sequencer class - in charge of making a new "sequence" number for a particular purpose of which we will have several different purposes.

        var serial_maker = function() {
            var prefix = '';
            var seq = 0;
            return {
                set_prefix: function(p) {
                    prefix = String(p);
                },
                set_seq: function(s) {
                    seq = s;
                },
                gensym: function() {
                    var result = prefix + seq;
                    seq += 1;
                    return result;
                }
            };
        };

And here I am initially creating three of them "globally" (instantiated would you call it). If global bothers you - since JS embraces "closure" I could simply include a reference this in a on-the-fly function creation (lambda in .Net?) and it's scope lives on possibly forever - what control!

        var seqEditPanel = serial_maker();
        seqEditPanel.set_prefix('acs-seqEditPanel-');

        var seqDropDown = serial_maker();
        seqDropDown.set_prefix('acs-seqDropDown-');

        var tabOrder = serial_maker();
        tabOrder.set_prefix('');

And then we use them in some call back function from the return of some AJAX - so we have async firing happening haphazardly. He I am applying a CSS style that is made up of one of these sequencers to all the elements that are involved in a SELECT-async callback to my web methods.

var strSeq = seqEditPanel.gensym();
                    
wesEP.find('[class^=awc]').addClass(strSeq).addClass('acs-input-field');

So that was a really simple one.

Now - I've been using SlickGrids (best grid ever - seen nothing like it anywhere in .Net or ever VB6). Available on the internet for a download - and it's a SINGLE .JS file (actually a few with editors and such broken up). You reference them in your page - that's just like any other language.

    <script src="Scripts/slick.core.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
    <script src="Scripts/slick.editors.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
    <script src="plugins/slick.rowselectionmodel.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
    <script src="Scripts/slick.grid.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
    <script src="Scripts/slick.dataview.js" type="text/javascript"></script>

And they are used like this:

try {
    g_objGrid[intGO] = new Slick.Grid($(strPanel)
                     , objGrid.source
                     , objGrid.columns
                     , objGrid.options);
} catch (e) {
    errorMessage("makeGrid", e);
}
    finally {
}

I retain reference through them by adding them into an array. $(strPanel) is the jQuery way to reference what HTML element you are hanging the SlickGrid on. The objGrid object comes back from my AJAX web method call (async of course - I could have dozens running at a time and they all know where to arrive at and connect to). The .source element of objGrid is an array of rows of data for the SlickGrid. The .columns and .options items should be obvious.

Look at this link - it's a cool grid: https://github.com/mleibman/SlickGrid/wiki/Slick.Grid

So one day I decide I want to "allow" filtering of rows. All I had to do was make this really neat "class" and expose a .get_source() method that returns an array.

g_objGrid[intGO] = new Slick.Grid($(strPanel)
                                , g_GMWorker.get_source()
                                , objGrid.columns
                                , objGrid.options);

In order to pass through original .source array I do this

g_GMWorker.set_source(objGrid.source);

Keep in mind we can have dozens of open SlickGrid all over the web page (hidden or active or whatever) - so we have lots of g_GMWorker (of the Grid_Maker class).

Grid_Maker looks like this:

var grid_maker = function () {
    var gmOffset = -1;
    var gmNameSeq = 0;
    var windowOn = false;
    var parentInfo = {};
...
    var i_set_output = function () {
...
        for (i = 0; i < .gmSource.sourceOrig.length; i++) {
            if (gmProperties.filterApply) {
...
                incRecord = true;
...
            if (incRecord) {
                gmSource.sourceOutput.push(gmSource.sourceOrig[i]);
            }
        }
    };
...

The i_XXXXX functions are "private" to each instance of the Grid_Maker class. See below - they are all hidden "above" the RETURN which hands out a bunch of public methods. The load: method will take a saved "filter" (I save them in the DB) and allow the user to re-run it. The get_source: and set_source: methods do the jobs noted above in exposing the "filtered" rows to the SlickGrid. Notice that set_source is calling the "private" i_set_source function. I could actually - at any time - replace the get_source function for a particular instance of one of these - even injecting it into the page with the cool EVAL function - maybe getting it from a call to the DB.

...
    var i_examine = function (o) {
...
    }
    return {
        load: function (i, o) {
            var loadOffset = -1;
            var foundFId = false;
...
            return loadOffset;
        },
...
        get_source: function () {
            return gmSource.sourceOutput;
        },
...
        set_source: function (a) {
            gmSource.sourceOrig = a;
            i_set_output();
            gmProperties.lastfilter = "";
            gmProperties.messagepump.push("Initial Row Count: " + String(gmSource.sourceOutput.length) + " (All rows included)"); // in filter)");
            return true;
        },
...
    };
};

[szlamany]

Look at this link with a discussion of the NEW keyword - which you will see I did not use for the sequencer and it's required for the SlickGrid

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3...idered-harmful

[Shaggy Hiker]

VB6 may be dead, but this conversation is as lively as a mutating germ.

[dee-u]

Look at this link with a discussion of the NEW keyword - which you will see I did not use for the sequencer and it's required for the SlickGrid

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3...idered-harmful

How about your serverside script? What language do you use?

[szlamany]

I use VB.Net - it's simple stuff - call a SPROC - loops through the rows - make a JSON string for return (or some variation on that theme).

For example the user clicks a button requesting the current grid be turned into an Excel file.

If this was VB6 how could I do it this easily? This is all natively async - basically multi-threaded without doing anything. You could continue moving along however you want on the browser side and this download will simply arrive when it's done.

I run a loop in JavaScript building a DATASOURCE array object from the SlickGrid source - pass that off to the server like this:

ctrlWebService("excel", (blnTextFile ? "textfile" : "excelfile"), window.bootguid, strExtra, strId, datasource);

And in VB.Net on the server - I do the following.

    <WebMethod()> _
    <ScriptMethod(ResponseFormat:=ResponseFormat.Json, UseHttpGet:=False)> _
    Public Function CtrlService(ByVal ctrloption As String _
              , ByVal ctrlval1 As String _
              , ByVal ctrlval2 As String _
              , ByVal ctrlval3 As String _
              , ByVal ctrlextra As Dictionary(Of String, String) _
              , ByVal username As String _
              , ByVal source As IList(Of Dictionary(Of String, String))) As String
...
        Dim JsonMaker As JsonWriter = New JsonWriter

        With JsonMaker
            .StartObject()
...
            If ctrloption = "excel" Then
                .NewObject("excel", True)
                .Seperate()
...
                    If Not doText Then
                        docName = Path.Combine(strExcelFolder, "storage\awcExcel_" & excelid & ".xlsx")
                        Dim sss As New SpreadsheetService

                        If sss.CreateSpreadsheet(docName) Then
                            Dim rId As String = sss.AddSheet("Sheet1")
                            Dim nfI As Integer = sss.AddStyle()
                            Dim sd As SheetData = DirectCast(sss._getWorkSheet(rId).Where(Function(x) x.LocalName = "sheetData").First(), SheetData)
                            Dim rowH As Row = New Row()
                            rowH.Spans = New ListValue(Of StringValue)()
                            If source.Count = 0 Then
                                rowH.Spans.Items.Add(New StringValue("1:1"))
                                rowH.RowIndex = 1
                                Dim cv As New CellValue() With {.Text = "No Data"}
                                Dim cellH As Cell = New Cell() With {.CellReference = cellAddr(0) & "1", .DataType = CellValues.String, .CellValue = cv}
                                rowH.Append(cellH)
                            Else
                                rowH.Spans.Items.Add(New StringValue("1:" & source(0).Count))
                                rowH.RowIndex = 1
                                For i As Integer = 0 To source(1).Count - 1
                                    Dim cv As New CellValue() With {.Text = source(1).ElementAt(i).Value}
                                    Dim cellH As Cell = New Cell() With {.CellReference = cellAddr(i) & "1", .DataType = CellValues.String, .CellValue = cv}
                                    rowH.Append(cellH)
                                Next
...
                    .NewObject("guid", ctrlval2)
                    .Seperate()
                    .NewObject("datasourceid", strMessage)
                    .Seperate()
                    strMessage = "excelcreated"
                End If
            End If

Then back in JavaScript - in a callback function that fires when the AJAX call to create the Excel file finishes - I pass off another request to the SERVER to download the file. The user in the browser never even sees this little function firing moment.

[edit]These are the events of transition of state in a stateless web page - you learn to feel them and track them and run them in your UI. You might put a SPINNER animation up when you start this whole process and can change that ANIMATION when this little background function fires. FIREBUG allows you to set breaks and watch all these async events as they happen. It's really more a dashboard for a kind of UI flow proofing of your app that you never get in VB - 6 or .Net imo.[/edit]

Note that I "OR" the .excel property with FALSE. That's the kind of thing you do in a scripting language like this to make sure checking the .excel property later does not fail. If the .excel property was not on the objReturn object the script would simply fail at that point. With JavaScript you have to embrace this looseness (or the freedom) and protect against failures.

        function ajaxCtrlFinished(msg, strWho, objOptions) {
            var objReturn = $.parseJSON(msg.d);
...
            objReturn.excel = objReturn.excel || false;
...
            } else if (objReturn.excel) {
                $("#" + strWho).find(".acs-printexcel-info").html('');
                $.download('Download.aspx', 'excelid=' + objReturn.datasourceid + '&user=' + window.username);

[szlamany]

Consider for a moment the perfect separation of client and server in that example. Only one machine needs to have that EXCEL creation code installed on it. IIS running as a web host handles firing up these web methods whenever they are asked for by a client. This can be a browser. This can be an Android app. They run on separate threads associated with the AJAX POST they get from a web page, for example.

The client code is run in a browser - so you have no install needs for client access. Sure I tell my clients to use FireFox because my JavaScript is debugged against FF - I know it can handle the really huge ARRAYS I am putting in place from these AJAX calls.

[arunb]

I have stopped using Microsoft technologies for application development. I use Windows 7 OS for embedded system programming, but all other apps are designed to run on Linux.

For server side I use PHP.

For android app development I use Android Studio from google.

I think in the near future most desktop applications would be designed to run on a server connected to clients. With the popularity of tablets and smartphones, even laptops are becoming outdated. People now like to carry tablets/smartphones that are connected to a cloud service.

I hardly carry a laptop to a business meeting or a demonstration.

Although tablets have a long way to go when it comes to productive use, I think even this will be solved some time. Microsoft is already promoting its tablets as a work oriented tool rather than an entertainment tool.

I think developers should keep themselves updated for the coming revolution.

thanks
a

[Shaggy Hiker]

I live in a place where being connected to a cloud is a fairly rare thing. Much of this state has no cell or internet service. We may end up with a two-tier society: Connected and unconnected.

[jayinthe813]

I live in a place where being connected to a cloud is a fairly rare thing. Much of this state has no cell or internet service. We may end up with a two-tier society: Connected and unconnected.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/05/micros...ithit-3584410/

Microsoft Studios creative director Adam Orth has enraged fans with a condescending defence of always-on devices, tweeting: ‘Sorry, I don’t get the drama around having an ‘always online’ console’.

He then followed that up with: ‘Every device now is ‘always on’. That’s the world we live in. #dealwithit.’

Challenged over the fact that Internet connectivity in the U.S., let alone the rest of the world, was not always reliable he then replied: ‘Why on earth would I live there?’

Well, theres your answer directly from MS.

[techgnome]

well first off, that's from a year ago... secondly, Orth's a loon... and only "represents" (and not very well) one division, and one that doesn't drive the direction of the entire company. Although, it just gives me one more reason to not to want to get an XBox One.

-tg

[homer13j]

...

szlamany has a unique knack for making a chit-chat thread seem like work.

[szlamany]

szlamany has a unique knack for making a chit-chat thread seem like work.

I resemble that remark

[jayinthe813]

well first off, that's from a year ago... secondly, Orth's a loon... and only "represents" (and not very well) one division, and one that doesn't drive the direction of the entire company. Although, it just gives me one more reason to not to want to get an XBox One.

-tg

I was just poking fun

I have a high-end gaming rig, but I think I still want an xbox one. Just no good exclusives yet that are "must-have". They definitely do online right, though.

[techgnome]

I was just poking fun

Yeah, I thought about that, which is why I didn't try to take it too seriously... except for my comment about Orth being a loon... I remember that comment when it first happened... it lit up the ethers big time.

I have a high-end gaming rig, but I think I still want an xbox one. Just no good exclusives yet that are "must-have". They definitely do online right, though.

Oh, I have the 360... I've never been one that has to have the latest, I only just got the 360 for Christmas '12 ... and I haven't played it as much as I would like - by the time I usually have the time, I'm so drained and tired, I don't have the oomph to fire it up. Of course a couple months after I got the 360, they released the XBox One... greaaaat. So far I haven't seen anything One-only that is a must have for me either, except maybe the latest Forza... that I kinda wish I could get... but alas, that's OK... I'll wait until just before the Forty-Two (Because that's how MS likes to skip around on naming things) come out, then I'll get the One on the cheap, and repeat the process again with a Forty-Two only Forza...

-tg

[Shaggy Hiker]

Orth's comment is indicative of a segment of tech society. We may all know people as tuned in as that, but it's not me. I still have to use carrier pigeons to connect, and once I get above about 8K BAUD (Birds Angrily Used for Deliveries), it gets kind of messy around here.

[techgnome]

You're more up todate than some neighbors then... we recently found out that asmuch as possibly as 25% of our neighborhood is with out smoke signals, which also includes another segment of that do not own a signal drum.

-tg

[Shaggy Hiker]

We don't use drums, we use firearms.

[szlamany]

We are still using cans and string here. Upgrading to the sneaker-net next month - and if we can afford Air Jordan's it will be wireless.

[jayinthe813]

Oh, I have the 360... I've never been one that has to have the latest, I only just got the 360 for Christmas '12 ... and I haven't played it as much as I would like - by the time I usually have the time, I'm so drained and tired, I don't have the oomph to fire it up. Of course a couple months after I got the 360, they released the XBox One... greaaaat. So far I haven't seen anything One-only that is a must have for me either, except maybe the latest Forza... that I kinda wish I could get... but alas, that's OK... I'll wait until just before the Forty-Two (Because that's how MS likes to skip around on naming things) come out, then I'll get the One on the cheap, and repeat the process again with a Forty-Two only Forza...

-tg

I was going to say, if you are really into racing, upgrade your graphics and look at a force-feedback steering wheel:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-941-0...steering+wheel

If you enjoy racing games they are worth the pretty penny.

Then I realized the new forza game isnt even on Windows, I guess they are really trying to push people to buy a One.

[techgnome]

Yeah, I'd like to get one of those... no table to put it on though. Plus it's more than I paid for the console. 0.o

-tg

[dee-u]

Making a rich client experience in a browser with a scripting language like JS is so, so nice a place to be.

Is it as rich as a desktop application? Got a little background with PHP and HTML but it is not as rich as a desktop application like having events for controls, etc, are those things done with JS? How about reports? How can you display different reports on a webbrowser?

[Nightwalker83]

I live in a place where being connected to a cloud is a fairly rare thing. Much of this state has no cell or internet service. We may end up with a two-tier society: Connected and unconnected.

I think that is going to be most of the world!

[techgnome]

Is it as rich as a desktop application? Got a little background with PHP and HTML but it is not as rich as a desktop application like having events for controls, etc, are those things done with JS? How about reports? How can you display different reports on a webbrowser?

Our app is quite rich, almost as the original winapp it replaced. WE have dialog forms, re-sizable forms, pretty much the whole ball or wax. Event handling is done through js, which then routes an AJAX call to a webservice on the server. As for reports... we use MS Reporting Services, which renders the reports in HTML anyways... so that wasn't a big deal.

-tg

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Is it as rich as a desktop application?

You can make web apps that are pretty close to desktop apps these days. There is the odd thing that you cant do or you have to do a bit differently but with Ajax you can get very rich interfaces.

[szlamany]

With jQuery you get this function that fires when the document is nearly ready - it's displayed and maybe some resources are still getting fed from the initial page load (.JS files - whatever)...

At any rate - in this function I setup all these .Live event handlers.

$(document).ready(function() {
.
.
.
            $('.acs-panel-btn-add').live('click', addClick);
            $('.acs-panel-btn-delete').live('click', deleteClick);
            $('.acs-panel-btn-edit').live('click', editClick);
            $('.acs-panel-btn-open').live('click', openClick);
            $('.acs-operator-button-event').live('click', operatorClick);
.
.
.

The .acs-xxx.xxx business is referring to a CLASS on some HTML element. These HTML elements are not loaded yet onto the page - I do that as you call up records and such.

The point is that these LIVE jQuery EVENT handlers watch the DOM for new elements that might have these CLASS's on them. When I add those elements they auto-magically get wired to the EVENT handler function noted in the .live call above.

That's pretty cool stuff!!!

[sapator]

Hasn't .live being replaced with .on ?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Living in Idaho, we are not allowed to have Rich Clients. On the other hand, we don't have any Thin Clients, either.

[szlamany]

Hasn't .live being replaced with .on ?

jQuery 1.7 in use here - no time for upgrading too busy with work here (which is a really good thing!)

[dilettante]

I live in a place where being connected to a cloud is a fairly rare thing. Much of this state has no cell or internet service. We may end up with a two-tier society: Connected and unconnected.

Seems topical:

Internet Connectivity Woes Threaten "Mobile First, Cloud First"

As we race forward into what Microsoft calls the "mobile first, cloud first" era, the one big assumption we're making is that we're all interconnected. But as readers and others often remind me, that's not always true. Not even close.

Probably deserves its own thread.

But some of my customers are in logging and in oil and mineral prospecting and it will be a long time before they'll have reliable high-bandwidth Internet access in their field HQs let alone actually out in the field in helicopters, ORVs, and on foot.

[techgnome]

But some of my customers are in logging and in oil and mineral prospecting and it will be a long time before they'll have reliable high-bandwidth Internet access in their field HQs let alone actually out in the field in helicopters, ORVs, and on foot.

I hear that... in a previous life, I worked for a construction company... not all of their jobs were in the heart of downtown metropolitan Utopia where everyone is connected... some of the jobs are out in the middle of an island on the side of a volcano... others in the frozen tundra of Canada... and all kinds of places in between... for some of those jobs, and old 80's era sat phone is the ONLY means of communication... I can only imagine what the modem handshake sounds like on those things.

-tg

[Shaggy Hiker]

I hear that... in a previous life, I worked for a construction company... not all of their jobs were in the heart of downtown metropolitan Utopia where everyone is connected... some of the jobs are out in the middle of an island on the side of a volcano... others in the frozen tundra of Canada... and all kinds of places in between... for some of those jobs, and old 80's era sat phone is the ONLY means of communication... I can only imagine what the modem handshake sounds like on those things.

-tg

I always wondered who built those lairs for evil overlords. How was the pay for that? Did you have minions? Did you get to kill minions? or how about onions?

Cloud and Mobile first are issues we deal with constantly. Most of the work I deal with is disconnected and always will be (unless we go to satelite connectivity, but that's not on the current horizon). I don't like that strategy anyways, but it's such a non-starter for us that it barely matters what I think.

[jayinthe813]

I always wondered who built those lairs for evil overlords. How was the pay for that? Did you have minions? Did you get to kill minions? or how about onions?

I want to know what bank approved a loan to build a second death star. Did their risk management not realize that a bunch of kids blew up the first one due to a serious design flaw?

[Shaggy Hiker]

It doesn't work like that. The loan manager got such a massive kickback that he didn't care, and that's how it worked for everybody else. The employees of such an institution don't work for the best interests of the institution, they work for their own best interest, which may be achieved even if the institution goes under as a result.

[SJWhiteley]

Plus anti-discimination laws are universal.

[axisdj]

Is Tiobe Index referring to just vb6 - Who Cares
Is vb6 a language for only non-professional programmers? Who Cares
Does it matter that vb6 is not truly OOP as defined by todays academics? NO!
Does it matter that all you .net / c++ OOP drones think that vb6 is a toy? NOP!

I don't really give a crap what you think about vb6.

All I know is my two products, where I make a living, are written in VB6. They work, People love them.

I will find a way to re-compile them from my current code base. I am not going to waste my time re-writing my software to get to the same functionality, that is just STUPID!

If all of us who do care and have projects like mine come together we will find a solution!

Good DAY!

[Niya]

Is Tiobe Index referring to just vb6 - Who Cares
Is vb6 a language for only non-professional programmers? Who Cares
Does it matter that vb6 is not truly OOP as defined by todays academics? NO!
Does it matter that all you .net / c++ OOP drones think that vb6 is a toy? NOP!

I don't really give a crap what you think about vb6.

All I know is my two products, where I make a living, are written in VB6. They work, People love them.

I will find a way to re-compile them from my current code base. I am not going to waste my time re-writing my software to get to the same functionality, that is just STUPID!

If all of us who do care and have projects like mine come together we will find a solution!

Good DAY!

Suit yourself dude but stop blaming MS for your laziness. I've already rewritten a couple of non-trivial apps in .Net, one of them I even posted in the CodeBank here and that specific one was just a pet project. VB6 was great in its day but it was replaced by the far superior VB.Net so stop making these stupid threads and get on with your life. VB6 is not coming back. Get over it.

[dilettante]

Don't worry. VB6 doesn't need to come back.

It never left.

[Niya]

Tell that to axisdj, Carlos Rocha and all the rest of those cry babies that keep bringing up this ridiculous topic.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Is Tiobe Index referring to just vb6 - Who Cares

Well, I had never heard of Tiobe until VB6 afficianados started citing it as proof that VB6 was more favored than any .NET and most other languages. While that may not include you, when you ask who cares, the answer is pretty much: VB6 fans do.

I will find a way to re-compile them from my current code base. I am not going to waste my time re-writing my software to get to the same functionality, that is just STUPID!
!

A) Why recompile at all? I thought you had already decided to keep using VB6. You haven't found anything that will simply recompile them such that they still work. You might find such a thing in the future, in which case I'm sure you'll share it, but why recompile? VB6 still works.

B) I thought one of the points of this thread was that you were going to move all your code to Lazarus. That would constitute a re-write, as well. Have you abandoned that decision?