Post Race!

[Witis]

Oh and snoopy too

[Witis]

Elephants really are scared of guinea pigs.

[Witis]

Elephants really are scared of guinea pigs.

I envision that they would also be afraid of squirrels.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Bitcoin is worldwide, as is demand, hence the crazy prices, but the price has only really taken off since mid last year and that is why the police haven't shut it down yet, but they will; all it takes is one country to outlaw bitcoin and the bitcoin collapse will be worldwide and very spectacular. At the moment the governments are more concerned with taxation issues, but once they ascertain that it is a criminal operation bitcoin will fall.

That's a different matter. Federal agents have much broader jurisdiction than local police do. A minor country will have a minor impact. China probably can't do anything, so we are really talking about the US or EU (as a block, which also seems unlikely). That could happen, but to what end? A whole lot of bitcoin is used for illegal transactions already, and that hasn't been deterred by the fact that it is illegal.

[CODE]
However, the government is very concerned with taxation, and if you don't declare your capital gains on assets, and bitcoin has already been declared property rather than currency in most countries, then you are risking being incarcerated for tax evasion. [/QUOTE]

Taxation is probably the key violation that will impact bitcoin. It gets complicated, though. When bitcoin tanks, there is no capital gain, but rather a capital loss.

Worse is that it each bitcoin transaction is recorded in a public ledger potentially leading every government directly to your front door.

So, why hasn't it been used that way? Probably because there is "something" recorded in the public ledger, but not identifying information. Others can probably talk more about it. I have no real interest in bitcoin, as it is way too volatile for my tastes. It would be kind of cool to have one as a cultural token, but I have no other interest in it.

[Witis]

That's a different matter. Federal agents have much broader jurisdiction than local police do. A minor country will have a minor impact. China probably can't do anything, so we are really talking about the US or EU (as a block, which also seems unlikely). That could happen, but to what end? A whole lot of bitcoin is used for illegal transactions already, and that hasn't been deterred by the fact that it is illegal.

Don't agree Sharky, as soon as one U.N. country declares bitcoin a criminal endeavour it is highly likely that all the other U.N. countries will follow, particularly if it is a western country. Furthermore having generated such high level and public opposition already I don't imagine it will be very long before that occurs. Then both the federal and local governments and police will move in to clean up the sordid mess.

Taxation is probably the key violation that will impact bitcoin. It gets complicated, though. When bitcoin tanks, there is no capital gain, but rather a capital loss.

Re capital gains tax I am talking about those having ever profited from the scheme including Satoshi Nakamoto.

So, why hasn't it been used that way? Probably because there is "something" recorded in the public ledger, but not identifying information. Others can probably talk more about it. I have no real interest in bitcoin, as it is way too volatile for my tastes. It would be kind of cool to have one as a cultural token, but I have no other interest in it.

I am not sure of the complete details myself but I envision that there will be a way for the police to identify the participants in the bitcoin trades if necessary. That sort of thing isn't usually necessary until criminal activities have been revealed and evidenced.

[dday9]

My Basic4Html project is going along pretty well. Here is an example of the translator.

This VB.Net code:
[code]Dim t As Title = New Title With {.Value = "Basic4Html"}
Dim noScript As NoScript = New NoScript With {.Value = "You webbrowser does not support scripting."}
Dim h As Head = New Head With {.NoScript = noScript, .Title = t}
Dim d As Basic4Html.Basic4Html.Document = New Basic4Html.Basic4Html.Document With {.Head = h, .Body = New Body}

FastColoredTextBox1.Text = d.ConvertToHtml
[code]

Translates to this HTML code:

!DOCTYPE html
<html>
    <head>
        <noscript>You webbrowser does not support scripting.</noscript>
        <title>Basic4Html</title>
    </head>
    <body>
    </body>
</html>

[dday9]

I forgot a closing [/CODE]:
My Basic4Html project is going along pretty well. Here is an example of the translator.

This VB.Net code:

Dim t As Title = New Title With {.Value = "Basic4Html"}
Dim noScript As NoScript = New NoScript With {.Value = "You webbrowser does not support scripting."}
Dim h As Head = New Head With {.NoScript = noScript, .Title = t}
Dim d As Basic4Html.Basic4Html.Document = New Basic4Html.Basic4Html.Document With {.Head = h, .Body = New Body}

FastColoredTextBox1.Text = d.ConvertToHtml

Translates to this HTML code:

!DOCTYPE html
<html>
    <head>
        <noscript>You webbrowser does not support scripting.</noscript>
        <title>Basic4Html</title>
    </head>
    <body>
    </body>
</html>

[dday9]

Here is an image of the IDE:
Attachment 115799

[Shaggy Hiker]

Don't agree Sharky, as soon as one U.N. country declares bitcoin a criminal endeavour it is highly likely that all the other U.N. countries will follow, particularly if it is a western country. Furthermore having generated such high level and public opposition already I don't imagine it will be very long before that occurs. Then both the federal and local governments and police will move in to clean up the sordid mess.

That would be pretty novel, Bambi. You have a currency that is currently used for LOTS of illegal activity, but the governments have been unable to stop the illegal activity. You are also asking that ALL the countries that host servers will simultaneously agree to take down some part of those servers. Has there ever been that level of cooperation before on anything? If that was even possbile, why is clearly illegal stuff like child porn still around?

Government doesn't have a magic wand, and they won't touch this kind of thing.

Re capital gains tax I am talking about those having ever profited from the scheme including Satoshi Nakamoto.

Nope. The taxes are pretty clear. It's not a question of whether you have ever profited, it's year to year. You can take a gain one year and a loss another year.

I am not sure of the complete details myself but I envision that there will be a way for the police to identify the participants in the bitcoin trades if necessary. That sort of thing isn't usually necessary until criminal activities have been revealed and evidenced.

Ever hear of Silk Road? Criminal activities have been revealed and evidenced with bitcoin transactions since its inception. The police didn't just go out and round up everybody who used Silk Road to buy illegal drugs, because they couldn't. So, we already know this doesn't exist. That magic isn't there.

[Witis]

That would be pretty novel, Bambi. You have a currency that is currently used for LOTS of illegal activity, but the governments have been unable to stop the illegal activity.

The problem is the illegal activity not the form of payment used.

You are also asking that ALL the countries that host servers will simultaneously agree to take down some part of those servers. Has there ever been that level of cooperation before on anything? If that was even possbile, why is clearly illegal stuff like child porn still around?

As soon as the bitcoin operations are declared illegal most of the servers will shut themselves down to avoid any civil and criminal charges, meaning that bitcoin operations will move into the murky underworld never to see the light of day again. Anyone trying to revive a modified version of the bit con will run the risk of being prosecuted.

Government doesn't have a magic wand, and they won't touch this kind of thing.

Are you suggesting that governments will treat bitcoins like cigarettes?

Nope. The taxes are pretty clear. It's not a question of whether you have ever profited, it's year to year. You can take a gain one year and a loss another year.

In terms of tax evasion, it is whether you have realised a capital gain in any year, and then avoided paying capital gains tax in that year by failing to disclose the profit.

Ever hear of Silk Road? Criminal activities have been revealed and evidenced with bitcoin transactions since its inception. The police didn't just go out and round up everybody who used Silk Road to buy illegal drugs, because they couldn't. So, we already know this doesn't exist. That magic isn't there.

Are you absolutely certain the police will be unable to trace each transaction, and what happens if you are wrong, especially given the public nature of the ledger?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Are you absolutely certain the police will be unable to trace each transaction, and what happens if you are wrong, especially given the public nature of the ledger?

Not my problem. I would guess that the drug dealers are much better informed about the secrecy of the transactions they are making than I am. Since they are making use of bitcoin, I would assume that they feel reasonably secure. Personally, all I know about it comes from reading articles about it.

Currency is all fiction. People can agree that something is currency and it is. There's really nothing more to it than that. If somebody wants to announce that bitcoin is illegal, they can try. People have to agree or their pronouncement will mean nothing. I doubt that government sanction will brind down bitcoin, after all, there are more likely issues. Mt. Gox certainly had a chance of bringing down bitcoin irreversibly, since they cast doubt on whether or not bitcoin could be safely used as a currency. Had another shoe dropped at the time, then bitcoin may well have failed completely. It hasn't though, and that suggests that it is more durable than you might think. Governments can make it hard to transact in bitcoins, but they can't totally prevent it. Server operators world-wide are not going to follow an edict by any one government. In fact, some are always willing to gleefully thumb their noses at one government or another. If China, the US, and the EU (and possibly Russia) all agreed to suppress bitcoin, that would end it. But those countries couldn't agree on whether water is wet, let alone on anything more substantial.

[Shaggy Hiker]

In any case, I guess we'll see. I'll be watching from the sidelines, though, not from the field.

Maybe people will buy up bitcoin, then use it to buy the rights to VB6 from MS, and launch an open source project to revive VB6. I hear that the Yeti is already on board with that project.

[Witis]

Not my problem. I would guess that the drug dealers are much better informed about the secrecy of the transactions they are making than I am. Since they are making use of bitcoin, I would assume that they feel reasonably secure. Personally, all I know about it comes from reading articles about it.

As in most situations the police are likely to target the biggest players first, however, there is always the chance, especially when you are talking about taxation, that even small players will be caught and charged. :L

Currency is all fiction. People can agree that something is currency and it is. There's really nothing more to it than that.

Don't agree Sharky, the money in my wallet is far from fictional. =D

If somebody wants to announce that bitcoin is illegal, they can try. People have to agree or their pronouncement will mean nothing.

The reason that it hasn't been stopped yet is because there aren't any victims going into the police station, but it will happen. As in the case with any new con it can take a while before the governments and police spend the time and money to extirpate the germ, and having a steady flow of victims always creates a lot of pressure for that to happen. However, in this case, the warnings are already there from the topmost folk in academia and funds management, meaning the governments now have an opportunity to take action before the germ and number of victims grows too much. Thus bitcoin can now literally fall at any second. o.O

I doubt that government sanction will brind down bitcoin, after all, there are more likely issues. Mt. Gox certainly had a chance of bringing down bitcoin irreversibly, since they cast doubt on whether or not bitcoin could be safely used as a currency. Had another shoe dropped at the time, then bitcoin may well have failed completely.

There will always be a lot of temptation for the bitcoin exchanges to say they were hacked so as to 'lose' thousands of bitcoins, and for hackers to hack the exchanges, and that can slow the growth of bitcoin, albeit temporarily. Bitcoin won't fall that way. In my view the con will only truly die once the governments around the world relegate it to a criminal activity.

It hasn't though, and that suggests that it is more durable than you might think.

True, unless a lot of the exchanges fall over it is unlikely to kill bitcoin.

Governments can make it hard to transact in bitcoins, but they can't totally prevent it.

If they make running exchanges and trading bitcoins or their equivalents illegal activities it will move any such transactions into the realm of organised crime.

Server operators world-wide are not going to follow an edict by any one government. In fact, some are always willing to gleefully thumb their noses at one government or another. If China, the US, and the EU (and possibly Russia) all agreed to suppress bitcoin, that would end it. But those countries couldn't agree on whether water is wet, let alone on anything more substantial.

It doesn't matter if the exchanges move to states that tolerate that sort of thing; if A.T.M.s, exchanges, and holding and trading the pseudo currency are deemed illegal where you live then only those wanting to risk doing time will go there.

[Witis]

In any case, I guess we'll see. I'll be watching from the sidelines, though, not from the field.

Yeah it's just really sad.

Maybe people will buy up bitcoin, then use it to buy the rights to VB6 from MS, and launch an open source project to revive VB6. I hear that the Yeti is already on board with that project.

Not sure about that Sharky, I thought ISIS was investing in bitcoin as one of its sources of funding? http://complex.foreignpolicy.com/pos...persian_gulf_d

[dclamp]

I went away for a few days and I came back expecting a lot more than just 2 more pages added to Post Race.

Post Race.


Road House.

[Witis]

That's right, what happened to dday9's attack at dawn strategy?

[Witis]

I was sure he had one planned.

[Witis]

Perhaps he agrees that the post race is no autobahn?

[Witis]

Stainless steel might replace gold in the post race. ˚ᵕ˚

[Witis]

Mettle. =)

[Witis]

Modern cybermen are fabricated out of polished steel rather than silver.

[Witis]

[Witis]

[dday9]

I watched Fire House, Warrant, and Dokken last night up in Coushatta Casino.

[SJWhiteley]

...


Don't agree Sharky, the money in my wallet is far from fictional. =D


...

It's only worth as much as what someone will give you for it.

And that's the irony of Bitcoin. With respect to trade, anything is only worth as much as someone will give you for it. I suspect that Bitcoin trading for dollars is a rigged system: someone has 'made up' how much it is worth to semi-legitimize it as a currency.

Simply, if we go one step further, you can't buy anything with bitcoins. I know you say you can, but in the grand scheme of things, you can't. Currency only becomes a currency when there is a critical mass in a community. Of course, people believe there is an 'online community' (Bwaahaahhh!)

Having said all that, much like Shaggy, I'm on the sidelines. But I have a good chuckle over it.

[dclamp]

I watched Fire House, Warrant, and Dokken last night up in Coushatta Casino.

Go to Vegas. I just got back. Had a great time. Public intoxication is the best.

[Witis]

It's only worth as much as what someone will give you for it.

Huh? Last time I checked my 10 dollar bills were worth exactly that amount of money, it's not like the value is negotiable unless it is a collectable bill. How much a dollar is worth depends at least on demand and supply. For example if the government were to double the money supply by printing more money, then ceteris paribus, the value of each dollar would drop 50 percent both domestically and internationally (forcing prices for the same goods to double). For instance after World War I Germany was forced to pay war reparations of tens of billions of dollars and so it decided to simply print loads of cash and that resulted in the some of the worst inflation ever recorded. :L

And that's the irony of Bitcoin. With respect to trade, anything is only worth as much as someone will give you for it. I suspect that Bitcoin trading for dollars is a rigged system: someone has 'made up' how much it is worth to semi-legitimize it as a currency."

The expression it is only worth as much as someone will give you for it usually applies to buying and selling true goods meaning that you might have a highly collectible one of a kind item to sell, but it is completely worthless unless you find the right buyer(s), and the expression hints at the forces of demand and supply underpinning the pricing mechanism. In the case of bitcoins the problem is that they are entirely worthless, there is no limit regarding the supply of equivalent coins, thus they are merely generating false demand by selling the con that they are as rare as gold.

You might be right regarding the value of the bitcoins, to get the scheme underway they may have manipulated the market to get the value of a bitcoin to rise from 1 cent to a dollar over a relatively short period of time, and in so doing generate a lot of investment interest in the virtual coin.

Simply, if we go one step further, you can't buy anything with bitcoins. I know you say you can, but in the grand scheme of things, you can't. Currency only becomes a currency when there is a critical mass in a community. Of course, people believe there is an 'online community' (Bwaahaahhh!)

Having said all that, much like Shaggy, I'm on the sidelines. But I have a good chuckle over it.

What, does that mean you don't fancy mining for a few bitcoins of your own?

[dday9]

Go to Vegas. I just got back. Had a great time. Public intoxication is the best.

Shoot we have New Orleans for that. Plus I did go to Vegas last.... November I think it was or maybe it was October.

[dclamp]

Never been to New Orleans.... I should go some time.

[dday9]

Whenever you do, hit me up and I'll go to. I'll keep you away from the side of bourbon that no straight person should ever see.

[dday9]

This is the post race.

[dday9]

I'm so glad it is.

[dday9]

Because if it wasn't the post race.

[dday9]

I would not be posting useless post.

[dday9]

There are currently 22 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 21 guests)

[dday9]

21 guests must really like a bunch of nothingness.

[mrfyzv]

all lol

[dday9]

Welcome to the post race!

[henrytrs35]

Where you can write anything and everything you want, just because you like it XD

[dday9]

It like you because just want you everything and anything write can you where DX