Bought my first Gun

[Witis]

You have an odd way of taking an answer and formulating a question for it. You asked "Do you mean..." My answer was No, because what you then stated was not even close to what I meant. I was answering the question you asked, not the one you meant to ask.

I don't think there was any ambiguity, I clearly only asked the question I meant to ask, which is obvious from the interaction:

Witis: I find the arrow part hard to believe, isn't it merely about making an easy kill and getting food that can't fight back on the table as quickly as possible???

Shaggy Hiker: No. Bow hunters are kind of like fly fishermen. In fact, all the bow hunters I know are also fly fisherman. For them, it doesn't seem to be so much a question of putting meat on the table, but how it is done. There's a greater level of skill needed for bow hunting, since the range is FAR less, so it appeals to certain types of people.

Witis: Do you mean that it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?

Shaggy Hiker: No. There are just people out there who try to make it harder on themselves. Bow hunting is one level, but traditional bow hunting (no compound bows) is a subset within the bow hunting crowd. It's just people trying to do things a bit different.

Witis: No? Did you just change your mind? Are you now indicating that it is not acceptable to kill a deer under any circumstances even if they are killed by weapons that require a high degree of skill such as the traditional bow you just mentioned, a blowpipe or spear? What about a foot race to determine which animal has superior endurance; would it be ok to kill a deer if it collapses from exhaustion after being chased by one or more men?

I wasn't putting some kind of value judgement on whether or not it is acceptable to kill a deer in any way, I was saying that there are people who only hunt deer with bows, and they do that to make it more challenging. That's not a question of whether or not it is acceptable, it's just how they are.

Then I have to reiterate my question: Do you believe that it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?

If primary school gets you up to 12, then I have no doubt that there are places where you can hunt at that age, though you probably can only hunt when accompanied by an adult. I haven't paid attention to the minimum age, and don't feel like looking it up.

What sort of prey are they allowed to hunt at that age?

Your mention of the footrace is kind of interesting, as there was a guy who wrote a book about attempting that with antelope. I believe the title is "Running After Antelope". He was a marathon runner who thought that humans may have hunted by simply outlasting animals, as you suggest. The idea is that we are well designed for endurance running, while lots of animals will overheat and shut down if they run long enough. If I remember correctly, he was unable to run down an antelope, even with the help of his brother. The antelope didn't have to keep running, it would sprint for a distance then stop. The two of them were unable to keep it running continually, so it always had a chance to recover between runs. Different species of deer use different evasion strategies, so running may work for some of them, but I doubt it. They are all so much faster than people that they can all use the same strategy that the antelope used to keep from tiring. Dogs can run down deer because they have the speed to keep the deer running, but we just aren't fast enough.

From what I have read it is possible depending on the animal being chased and still occurs in certain parts of the world. What about in the case of deer, even from a hypothetical perspective, would it be ok if a deer was killed if it lacked the endurance in a foot race?

EDIT: As to whether or not I would order it if it was on the menu: Have you not been reading, or not been paying attention. I thought I had stated three times that I didn't much like venison, but I can only find two of the statements, so I must have edited one out. Oddly, you actually quoted one of the statements. So, if I have stated repeatedly that I don't find venison appealing, why would I ever order it?

Ok then, what about elk, or moose rather than venison?

[Witis]

blowpipes

Blow darts are often dipped in the poison curare in order to paralyse the prey, which is extracted from the bark of particular trees: "Curare is a generic term for arrow poisons that contain tubocurarine. Most frequently it is derived from the bark of Strychnos toxifera, S. guianensis (family Loganiaceae), Chondrodendron tomentosum or Sciadotenia toxifera (family Menispermaceae). Curare is a competitive antagonist that blocks nicotinic acetylcholine receptors on the post synaptic membrane of the neuromuscular junction. It is a muscle relaxant that causes death by paralyzing the respiratory system, resulting in asphyxiation."

"In the US State of California, blowguns are illegal. They are also illegal in Massachusetts, the District of Columbia, but are legal elsewhere. There is currently no age requirement for using a blowgun."
Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowgun, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_poison

[TysonLPrice]

Nah, I just asked you directly when you said deer hunting is huge in parts of the U.S!



Is there a chain of venison fast food outlets???



How young are the youngest children who go deer hunting?



I find the arrow part hard to believe, isn't it merely about making an easy kill and getting food that can't fight back on the table as quickly as possible???



You make it sound like you have done some of it yourself!!!



Do you like the taste?



I always thought beef was the primary jerky available.




Are you saying that you wouldn't approve of using deer instead of lawnmowers in your local neighborhood?



Although it was quick, do go on!!!

I'd answer you questions but troll hunting season doesn't open for awhile

[Witis]

I'd answer you questions but troll hunting season doesn't open for awhile

That's sad, as you did say that you would "be happy to post more if [I] really care." so I was looking forward to reading your reply! What's that about a troll hunting season? Are you referring to the nasty giants that are strong, slow and dim witted that live under bridges and try and eat deer and goats?

[FunkyDexter]

The question is, Witis, do you think it's acceptable to kill a deer as long as there's skill involved? We all really really want to know because your opinion is soooo important to us.

There's no commercial venison industry in the country

That surprises me because there's a fairly substantial industry over here and venisons available in all the super-markets, though not as common as beef, pork etc but still. It's also generally considered something of a treat. I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that we don't really hunt over here so we don't have as much opportunity to get jaded by it.

[Witis]

The question is, Witis, do you think it's acceptable to kill a deer as long as there's skill involved? We all really really want to know because your opinion is soooo important to us.

I don't believe it would be right for me to attend another stag party if I thought it was acceptable, so I'll have to say no to killing the stags and subsist on salmon jerky instead! Party on!!

[Witis]

The question is, Witis, do you think it's acceptable to kill a deer as long as there's skill involved? We all really really want to know because your opinion is soooo important to us.

Back at ya Dex, would you order venison at your next visit to the Ivy/other favourite restaurant, shoot a deer with a blowpipe, or run after one until it collapses from sheer exhaustion?

[FunkyDexter]

And straight back at you because what I would do really isn't that intersting.

[Witis]

And straight back at you because what I would do really isn't that intersting.

Why not? It's difficult to imagine that there is not at least one interesting thing about your view on the issue.

[homer13j]

It has been my experience that the most effective way to kill a deer is using a '74 Pontiac.

[Witis]

It has been my experience that the most effective way to kill a deer is using a '74 Pontiac.

"On April 27, 2009, amid ongoing financial problems and restructuring efforts, GM announced it would discontinue the Pontiac brand by the end of 2010 and focus on four core brands in North America: Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC. The last Pontiacs were built in late 2009/early 2010, with the final dealer franchises expiring October 31, 2010." - wiki
It looks to me very much like the deer you killed was avenged!

[Shaggy Hiker]

I don't think there was any ambiguity, I clearly only asked the question I meant to ask, which is obvious from the interaction:

No, you started off asking about the motivation of the hunter, then turned it into an ethical question about whether I thought it was acceptable. For one thing, I have already stated that I don't hunt, so even talking about the motivation of a bow hunter is entirely secondhand. When you start talking about what is acceptable, then you get into the realm of fair chase law, an area I have little opinion on. So, if we are talking about how people harvest deer, I have a little second hand information about that. If we are talking about why people harvest deer, I have talked to a variety of people about that and know that there are a wide rande of motivations. But, if we are talking about the ethics of hunting deer, I'm not even going to answer, because I don't feel very strongly about it.

Then I have to reiterate my question: Do you believe that it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?

What have I said that indicated whether I thought it was either acceptable or unacceptable to kill a deer by any means? I would certainly say that it takes more skill, and generally greater effort, to kill a deer with a bow than it does with a rifle. A blowpipe without curare would be inhumane and would not fall under fair chase laws, while I would expect that a blowpipe with curare would be illegal in most of this country. Spear hunting is legal for some types of game, but not for others. Whether it's legal for deer is a state by state issue. I would guess that, if it is legal at all, if probably is acceptable under fair chase laws. Running deer by humans is illegal in this state (it would fall under harrasing wildlife, cause you'd never convince a game officer that you were actually hunting). Running deer by dogs may be legal in parts of the southeast (hound hunting for various things is more widely used in the some states down there), but the dogs may be shot on sight by law enforcement in other states. So, you'd have to check the laws in whichever state you felt like chasing deer around. It may even be encouraged in some areas, since deer will move into towns where they can't be hunted, and they have been known to attack people and domestic animals.

What sort of prey are they allowed to hunt at that age?

You'd have to check with the state. We have 50 different sets of laws on the subject. Have fun with your research.

Ok then, what about elk, or moose rather than venison?

I'd certainly consider elk, moose, or bison if I was at a place that had it on the menu. I've certainly had bison, and I think I've had elk, or at least seen it on a menu. Both of those tend to be VERY lean compared to beef, with no marbling to speak of, so they have to be cooked in certain ways or else they are really dry. I had some BBQ Buffalo burgers (American Bison aren't technically Buffalo, but that name is used a lot more than Bison) that were really good.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It has been my experience that the most effective way to kill a deer is using a '74 Pontiac.

I haven't tried a 74 Pontiac, but I rolled one across the road with a '98 Subaru, and the deer got up and ran off. I guess the '74 Pontiac probably had a higher impact (I was also traveling pretty slow when I hit the deer).

[TysonLPrice]

It has been my experience that the most effective way to kill a deer is using a '74 Pontiac.

I can't remember how the joke goes but part of it was...

All you have to do is figure out a way to put headlights and a car horn on a bullet. Shoot it down the middle of the road and deer will jump out in front of it.

[homer13j]

I haven't tried a 74 Pontiac, but I rolled one across the road with a '98 Subaru, and the deer got up and ran off. I guess the '74 Pontiac probably had a higher impact (I was also traveling pretty slow when I hit the deer).

I don't remember how fast I was going but it was on a road posted at 55mph so probably at least that fast. And considering my old Pontiac weighed around double what your Subaru did the poor thing never stood a chance. It did surprisingly little damage, though, but keep in mind in 1974 cars were still built with steel bumpers, grills and fenders, "crumple zones" were inside the car, and air bags were things that truckers sat on whenever they got hemorrhoids.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, I figured as much. Big iron does a number on a trophy.

When I was in college in western PA, there were two people killed by ricochet deer in what seemed like the space of a couple months. One of them was the mayor of the city. For those who don't know what a ricochet deer is, it's what happens when one car hits a deer hard enough to throw it into an oncoming vehicle. If the toss is through the windshield, it's particularly deadly for the driver. It's ALWAYS deadly for the deer.

[Witis]

No, you started off asking about the motivation of the hunter, then turned it into an ethical question about whether I thought it was acceptable.

Although I found it difficult to believe that a large number of deer were killed by arrow instead of easier methods, I think it was very clear that I wanted to know just what your ethical view was in relation to the killing of deer for human consumption.

For one thing, I have already stated that I don't hunt, so even talking about the motivation of a bow hunter is entirely secondhand.

I didn't ask you to speculate about the motivation of the bow hunter, I asked you if "it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?"

When you start talking about what is acceptable, then you get into the realm of fair chase law, an area I have little opinion on.

I think it was clearly an ethical rather than legal question although I don't believe anyone would have minded if you contrasted your views with the state's legal position.

So, if we are talking about how people harvest deer, I have a little second hand information about that.

That was an interesting component of the discussion which I recall adding several elements to myself.

If we are talking about why people harvest deer, I have talked to a variety of people about that and know that there are a wide rande of motivations.

I don't recall having ever asked you to speculate about why anybody else chooses to kill deer.

But, if we are talking about the ethics of hunting deer, I'm not even going to answer, because I don't feel very strongly about it.

Yes, that is what I asked about.

What have I said that indicated whether I thought it was either acceptable or unacceptable to kill a deer by any means?

You have stated that you eat beef and venison although you prefer the taste of elk and mousse which indicates that you believe it is ethical to kill all of those herbivorous animals and then consume them. I was interested to see if you drew the line somewhere, for example, only if the prey is given a fighting chance to get away; or indeed if you had changed your mind altogether mid way through the discussion as I previously explicated.

I would certainly say that it takes more skill, and generally greater effort, to kill a deer with a bow than it does with a rifle.

No argument from me on that point.

A blowpipe without curare would be inhumane and would not fall under fair chase laws, while I would expect that a blowpipe with curare would be illegal in most of this country.

I didn't read anything that stopped blowpipes (with or without curare) being used even by children to kill deer in most U.S states.

Spear hunting is legal for some types of game, but not for others.

I read it is legal to hunt deer and pig is some U.S states e.g Alabama.

Running deer by humans is illegal in this state (it would fall under harrasing wildlife, cause you'd never convince a game officer that you were actually hunting).

I haven't checked although I suspect that you are correct, you would have to travel to say Africa if you wanted to pit yourself in a test of endurance against your target game animal.

Running deer by dogs may be legal in parts of the southeast (hound hunting for various things is more widely used in the some states down there), but the dogs may be shot on sight by law enforcement in other states.

It must have come from Britain and Ireland where "deer hunting" was historically a 'sporting pursuit of deer with scent-seeking hounds ("stag hounds"), with unarmed followers typically on horseback.' which has been illegal since the Hunting Act of 2004 - Wiki.

So, you'd have to check the laws in whichever state you felt like chasing deer around. It may even be encouraged in some areas, since deer will move into towns where they can't be hunted, and they have been known to attack people and domestic animals.

Even if such attacks occur irregularly, somehow I don't quite see Hollywood making it into a full featured horror!

You'd have to check with the state. We have 50 different sets of laws on the subject. Have fun with your research.

Ah, no need to look that far, ye olde blowpipe should do the trick in most U.S states.

I'd certainly consider elk, moose, or bison if I was at a place that had it on the menu. I've certainly had bison, and I think I've had elk, or at least seen it on a menu. Both of those tend to be VERY lean compared to beef, with no marbling to speak of, so they have to be cooked in certain ways or else they are really dry. I had some BBQ Buffalo burgers (American Bison aren't technically Buffalo, but that name is used a lot more than Bison) that were really good.

Sounds like you have quite an appetite.

[Niya]

I was wondering how long it would be until Witis shits on this thread.......

[Shaggy Hiker]

Although I found it difficult to believe that a large number of deer were killed by arrow instead of easier methods, I think it was very clear that I wanted to know just what your ethical view was in relation to the killing of deer for human consumption.

And I'm not interested in talking about that, so I won't.

I didn't ask you to speculate about the motivation of the bow hunter, I asked you if "it is acceptable to kill a deer as long as there is more skill involved e.g bow and arrow, blowpipes, or spear?"

Ok, what does the more skill have to do with it? Did I suggest it was acceptable or not acceptable regardless of the skill?

I think it was clearly an ethical rather than legal question although I don't believe anyone would have minded if you contrasted your views with the state's legal position.

Guess again.

I don't recall having ever asked you to speculate about why anybody else chooses to kill deer.

No, I don't think you did, but since I don't hunt, you can't very well ask me why I choose to kill a deer, because I obviously don't make that choice.

I didn't read anything that stopped blowpipes (with or without curare) being used even by children to kill deer in most U.S states.

I can't speak for most states, but I can quote from page 88 of the 2013 Big Game Regulations for the state of Idaho: "In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game animals:
By any means other than approved firearms, muzzleloaders and archery methods."

Deer are classified as big game, and blowguns are not classified as firearms, so hunting deer with a blowgun is not legal in the state of Idaho.

There is similarly restrictive language concerning short range weapon hunts. Blowguns are completely excluded.

I read it is legal to hunt deer and pig is some U.S states e.g Alabama.

Pigs are a destructive, invasive species. As far as I'm concerned, you should be allowed to hunt them by any safe means (no landmines). The pigs in question are feral, smart, dangerous, and do lots of damage to the areas they inhabit. Unfortunately, I have heard that they taste pretty bad, too.

Ah, no need to look that far, ye olde blowpipe should do the trick in most U.S states.

Frankly, I seriously doubt it is legal in ANY state, but if it is legal anywhere, I'd be looking in the southeast or Texas. They have some strange laws down there.

[dclamp]

Speaking of deer and bison,

I bought 500 rounds of 5.56 ammo for $360. Ouch

[techgnome]

I just acquired a Winchester model 12 shotgun. Came with 12, 16 & 18 ga barrels. Given its age, I think it's in pretty good shape... I'll need to learn how to do a teardown on it and clean it properly. For the most part, it looks clean and seems to work, but occasionally the cycling sticks. Amazingly all three barrels SN match the receiver... not only that but I also have the ORIGINAL box it came in. I'd like to get it cleaned up, and then take it to the local range and see just how bad of a shot I am. I'm not a hunter, but at least now I'm one step closer to being ready for the zombie apocalypse... or failing that, I can now at least protect the neighborhood following a hurricane. :P

-tg

[FunkyDexter]

I don't quite see Hollywood making it into a full featured horror

Yeah, nobody's ever going to make a film about a deer-hunter

[SJWhiteley]

Shaggy has demonstrated that he can tolerate a severe poking with a stick and not get rattled. Witis, you have something to say, and no one is going to say it for you.

Why is it hard to believe that deer are killed with a bow instead of 'some other method'? It seems you have no idea what hunting is, and are looking for [Shaggy] to put forward an argument that you can blow holes in (no pun intended). Why don't you reason with us describing the moral and immoral ways to kill deer - or any other creature, for that matter.

[Witis]

And I'm not interested in talking about that, so I won't.

I have to presume that is because ethics is not one of your fortes.

No, I don't think you did, but since I don't hunt, you can't very well ask me why I choose to kill a deer, because I obviously don't make that choice.

Although you said that you have eaten venison, elk, moose, bison, and you know where the meat comes from, so it is only logical to ask you about your ethical views regarding the killing of such animals.

Pigs are a destructive, invasive species. As far as I'm concerned, you should be allowed to hunt them by any safe means (no landmines). The pigs in question are feral, smart, dangerous, and do lots of damage to the areas they inhabit.

I assume you mean like those -> http://www.picsofpigs.com/.

Frankly, I seriously doubt it is legal in ANY state, but if it is legal anywhere, I'd be looking in the southeast or Texas. They have some strange laws down there.

As blowpipes have no age restriction and are legal in every state except California, Massachusetts and the District of Columbia, I don't believe it would attract too much attention from the authorities if you were skilled enough to bring down a razorback via such a method, especially as some states have no limits on hog hunting unlike deer or elk, and in the case of curare I guess you could say the bark is almost as bad as the bite!

[Witis]

Speaking of deer and bison,

I bought 500 rounds of 5.56 ammo for $360. Ouch

I don't recall having ever tasted either, are you able to describe the flavour for me dclamp?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I have to presume that is because ethics is not one of your fortes.

That would be as logical as all of the rest of your assumptions, so I agree that you would have to presume so.

Although you said that you have eaten venison, elk, moose, bison, and you know where the meat comes from, so it is only logical to ask you about your ethical views regarding the killing of such animals.

I wouldn't say that it was logical to ask anybody anything unless you had a reason to do so. In any case, you may ask, but I have no interest in answering. Frankly, I have never thought about it all that much, and what thoughts I have on it are too complex for me to have any desire to type out. Therefore, I won't.

I assume you mean like those -> http://www.picsofpigs.com/.

No, probably not. That's a pretty bizarre link, though. There really isn't any limit to the internet and what people have found on there.

As blowpipes have no age restriction and are legal in every state except California, Massachusetts and the District of Columbia, I don't believe it would attract too much attention from the authorities if you were skilled enough to bring down a razorback via such a method, especially as some states have no limits on hog hunting unlike deer or elk, and in the case of curare I guess you could say the bark is almost as bad as the bite!

I'm not sure. Serious blowpipes don't look like anything else, and are WAY too big to conceal with any ease. I think you would find that they'd attract considerable attention from authorities, non-authorities, and pretty nearly anyone else. They are clearly weapons, so if you were carrying one in the woods, you would certainly be asked about it by anybody in law enforcement. From there, it's anybodies guess what would happen. After all, there is this "Looks like a duck" legal precedent established by the courts in hunting cases. I don't know how that gets handled in places with feral hogs. Up here, it isn't necessary that you be observed harvesting game, so if you were in the woods with a blowpipe, you could get cited, and probably would unless you could provide credible evidence that you were not hunting game. In places with feral hogs, I assume that some distinction is made regarding what you are hunting, but I don't know how that would be handled. You'd want to check with the authorities before attempting it, though. While hunting and fishing regulations are handled on a state by state basis, enforcement is not. If you lose your hunting rights in any of the compact states, you lose them in ALL of the compact states. Since the states in the compact (which started out as the Western Compact, I think) keep expanding, you'd lose your right to hunt in most of the country by now.

[Witis]

Yeah, nobody's ever going to make a film about a deer-hunter

I have found it almost impossible to forget the Russian roulette scenes from that film especially -> "FINAL ROULETTE | The Deer Hunter | Classic Clips".

[Witis]

Witis, you have something to say, and no one is going to say it for you.

Why is it hard to believe that deer are killed with a bow instead of 'some other method'?

It wasn't that I thought it was impossible to kill a deer via bow and arrow, I merely found it difficult to believe that there were arrow only seasons when there are other methods that get herbivorous prey that can't fight back on the table much more quickly and with much less effort.

It seems you have no idea what hunting is,

Don't agree, it seems you have only read some of my posts.

and are looking for [Shaggy] to put forward an argument that you can blow holes in (no pun intended).

I actually prefer guns to blowpipes!

Why don't you reason with us describing the moral and immoral ways to kill deer - or any other creature, for that matter.

I already wrote about my views regarding deer hunting -> please refer to post #197!

[Shaggy Hiker]

It wasn't that I thought it was impossible to kill a deer via bow and arrow, I merely found it difficult to believe that there were arrow only seasons when there are other methods that get herbivorous prey that can't fight back on the table much more quickly and with much less effort.

Technically, they could fight back. They just don't. We have some raging debate about wolves out here, at the moment. One point that people tend to overlook is that if deer or elk were able to band together, they'd drive wolves to extinction. Of course, we'd then drive the deer and elk to extinction, too, but it would certainly be a different dynamic. It may sound like a flippant conjecture, but it really shouldn't be. Consider that an elk is much bigger, stronger, and somewhat faster, than a wolf. Therefore, wolves have to hunt in packs to take down an elk. Why haven't elk learned to act in packs to destroy wolves? They do act in packs (herds), and that does provide certain benefits, so it is clear why they would live that way, so why haven't they taken the next step?

[techgnome]

It wasn't that I thought it was impossible to kill a deer via bow and arrow, I merely found it difficult to believe that there were arrow only seasons when there are other methods that get herbivorous prey that can't fight back on the table much more quickly and with much less effort.

In Nebraska, there are three deer seasons... full open season... bow only and crossbow only.... the length of each one depends on the current population... if it's low, then the full open season will be short and the bow/crossbows will be longer... but yes, there are such things...

-tg

[Witis]

Technically, they could fight back. They just don't.

How do you mean, for example if you compare a rifle to a doe?

[dclamp]

How do you mean, for example if you compare a rifle to a doe?

You miss. Then the doe attacks because you pissed him off. You unfortunately caught him on a bad day. His mom had died earlier that day and he was on his way back home from work where he was laid off because his work was not up to par. Which is actually his fault so he really shouldnt be mad at anyone else but himself.

[Witis]

You miss. Then the doe attacks because you pissed him off. You unfortunately caught him on a bad day. His mom had died earlier that day and he was on his way back home from work where he was laid off because his work was not up to par. Which is actually his fault so he really shouldnt be mad at anyone else but himself.

Ah, it seems like you must have played deer avenger then =)

[Shaggy Hiker]

In Nebraska, there are three deer seasons... full open season... bow only and crossbow only.... the length of each one depends on the current population... if it's low, then the full open season will be short and the bow/crossbows will be longer... but yes, there are such things...

-tg

That doesn't make sense. If we knock down the population of Nebraska, either through economic turmoil, tornados, or other, it seems like the season should lengthen.


Or maybe that wasn't the population you were talking about....Nah.

[Shaggy Hiker]

How do you mean, for example if you compare a rifle to a doe?

Compare a rifle to a doe? Well, one is metal and composites, the other is venison. One can move on its own, the other can't.

How would animals fight back against predators? It would take teamwork and possibly some sacrifice. Of course, if the predator they were fighting back against were humans, we'd also shift our stategies to compensate, but that's irrelevant to the point.

[dclamp]

Compare a rifle to a doe? Well, one is metal and composites, the other is venison. One can move on its own, the other can't.
.

I would also like to point out that rifles are easier to maintain and and probably more fun.

[Witis]

Compare a rifle to a doe? Well, one is metal and composites, the other is venison.

Exactly, the idea of the deer hunt is to kill an unarmed herbivorous animal with almost no means of defense, so why bother with other strategies that are not as easy e.g bows and arrows or using edged weapons on horseback???

[Shaggy Hiker]

I actually agree with you on that. Determine the goal, choose the optimal means of achieving that goal, then execute the plan. The same argument could be made when it comes to fly fishing...sort of. One difference with fly fishermen is that lots of them tie their own flies. If you do that, then you are really engaged in an artistic endeavor where the fish are just the judges of your efforts. The same might be true for bow hunters who make their own equipment, though the deer aren't judges of the realism so much as evidence of the effectiveness. There are few bow hunters that make their own bows, though, whereas there are lots of fly fishermen that make their own flies.

Aside from that, fly fishermen are still pretty similar to bow hunters. It's the same activity as the general fishermen or hunters, it's just a bit specialized. There's nothing unusual about that, though. For pretty nearly any activity that can be mastered, there are a few people who impose some kind of restriction on it to increase the challenge. A couple examples would be people who do crossword puzzles in pen, and people who play FPS computer games using a self-imposed Dead-is-Dead rule.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I would also like to point out that rifles are easier to maintain and and probably more fun.

Quite often, though I've seem a few doe-eyed creatures who were quite dear and looked like they'd be LOTS of fun. Mighty hard to maintain, though.

[dclamp]

Quite often, though I've seem a few doe-eyed creatures who were quite dear and looked like they'd be LOTS of fun. Mighty hard to maintain, though.

Bambi?