How And When Did The Ancient Roman And Greek Religions Become Myths?

[Witis]

The ancient Roman and Greek societies and their associated religious figures and followings are reasonably well known, and, due to their classical historical significance, are continually referenced by modern society for example in the names of calendar months, planets and the Olympic Games.

However, the use of the word mythology now used in relation to those ancient religions indicates that at some point in time they ceased to be viewed as religions and were widely reclassified and accepted as nothing more than fictional fabrications.

What caused the transformation from religion to myth to occur?

For example was science the culprit, did someone wake up one day and think to themselves: 'are you 100&#37 sure about these monsters with a hundred hands and fifty heads, I have never seen one?!!'; or were the gigantic monstrosities killed by Christianity just like when David used his sling to fell Goliath?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Frankly, while some may disagree, I think that the egg probably came first.

[dilettante]

Isn't myth just a religion you choose not to accept as reality?

[Jacob Roman]

What if I were to tell you that I am a God

[Witis]

Frankly, while some may disagree, I think that the egg probably came first.

Well it did in the case of the case of Orphic cosmogony: http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Phanes.html.

[Witis]

Isn't myth just a religion you choose not to accept as reality?

I envision the key difference to be that religion is founded on a belief in the divine, where as in the case of myth such a belief in no longer sustainable.

[Witis]

What if I were to tell you that I am a God

I have to say that I'd be very sceptical to say the very least! Have you published any material that I can read????

[Spoo]

An ancient Roman and an ancient Greek were sitting in a bar.

The ancient Roman said: What if I were to tell you that I am a God?
The ancient Greek said: I thought you were banned ... did I myth something?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I have to say that I'd be very sceptical to say the very least! Have you published any material that I can read????

Would that prove that he was God, or that he was not? I don't remember any other God publishing anything, though other people wrote about them. From that perspective, I think that JR probably qualifies, as I also don't remember him publishing anything, and other people have written about him.

[Jacob Roman]

An ancient Roman and an ancient Greek were sitting in a bar.

The ancient Roman said: What if I were to tell you that I am a God?
The ancient Greek said: I thought you were banned ... did I myth something?

I think we found your new signature spoo

[Witis]

Would that prove that he was God, or that he was not?

That would depend on the material provided! I am looking forward to reading any that he can provide either directly or indirectly!!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Gee, I'd be happy to read any material provided by some of the other deities, too. The christian god has lots of people writing opinions, but hasn't done any writing since that stone tablets thing (or perhaps Babylon, depending on your interpretation of "Hand Writing on the Wall"). And even those stone tablets are just a matter of debate, as they are nothing but heresay.

[_God_]

Behold your Master and Creator. I am God. You shalt not need material to proveth my existence, as you will never fathom nor understandth my infinite wisdom, true power and glory. I Am that I Am. I Am the keeper of time. The Lord of the infinite universe. And when the time comes, every knee shalt bow!

[Jacob Roman]

[Shaggy Hiker]

Knees bow?

On the one hand, that does sound like God, as it leaves plenty to interpretation. For example, does the bit about knees bowing mean that we will all become bowlegged when the times come, or are our knees going to learn to do something new?

On the other hand, it sounds like an imposter, since God would presumably know that people bow and knees only bend.

[Spoo]

If that is God, would she be an ancient Roman or an ancient Greek?

[Jacob Roman]

What if God were to be banned? Would it be considered sacreligious?

[Witis]

Gee, I'd be happy to read any material provided by some of the other deities, too. The christian god has lots of people writing opinions, but hasn't done any writing since that stone tablets thing (or perhaps Babylon, depending on your interpretation of "Hand Writing on the Wall"). And even those stone tablets are just a matter of debate, as they are nothing but heresay.

I am not that picky, I'd be willing to consider any submissions be they first second or third hand!!!

[Witis]

Behold your Master and Creator. I am God. You shalt not need material to proveth my existence, as you will never fathom nor understandth my infinite wisdom, true power and glory. I Am that I Am. I Am the keeper of time. The Lord of the infinite universe. And when the time comes, every knee shalt bow!

Your post count makes you look suspiciously like more of a zero to me!

[Witis]

CHRONUS
"KHRONOS (or Chronus) was the Protogenos (primeval god) of time, a divinity who emerged self-formed at the beginning of creation in the Orphic cosmogonies. Khronos was imagined as an incorporeal god, serpentine in form, with three heads--that of a man, a bull, and a lion. He and his consort, serpentine Ananke (Inevitability), circled the primal world-egg [the primordial mixture of elements] in their coils and split it apart to form the ordered universe of earth, sea and sky."
Source: http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Khronos.html

Although how anyone could classify a serpent/dragon (he had wings in some accounts) a god is beyond me.


EROS
"EROS was the Protogenos (primordial deity) of procreation who emerged self-formed at the beginning of time. He was the driving force behind the generation of new life in the early cosmos. The Orphics knew him as Phanes, a primal being hatched from the world egg at creation" and has been described as "an incorporeal god with golden wings on his shoulders, bulls’ heads growing upon his flanks, and on his head a monstrous serpent".
Sources
http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Eros.html
The origins of the mithraic mysteries by By David Ulansey p 120


TITANS
The Titans were a primeval race of powerful giants, descendants of Gaia (Earth) and Uranus (Sky) that ruled during that ruled during the golden age of men.
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(mythology)


HECATONCHIRES
The Hekatonkheires meaning"Hundred Handed Ones" were three giants of incredible strength and ferocity born of Uranus and Gaia, "each of them having a hundred hands and fifty heads". Their names were Briareus (Βριάρεως) the Vigorous, also called Aigaion (Αἰγαίων), Latinised as Aegaeon, the "sea goat", Cottus (Κόττος) the Striker or the Furious, and Gyges (Γύγης) or Gyes (Γύης) the Big-Limbed.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecatonchires


CYCLOPES
Cyclopes born of Uranus and Gaia were a primordial race of giants, each with a single eye in the middle of his forehead having a foul disposition and were said to be strong and stubborn.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops


When Uranus threw the Hekatonkheires and Cyclopes into Tartarus viewing them as "hideous monsters" (in one myth Uranus saw how ugly the Hekatonkheires were at their birth and pushed them back into Gaia's womb!), Gaia was upset, probably at having to give birth twice to the Hekatonkheires, and convinced the youngest titan Cronus to castrate his father. In so doing creating the gigantes and becoming the ruler of the Titans.


GIGANTES
"the Giants or Gigantes were the children of Gaia, who was fertilized by the blood of Uranus, after Uranus was castrated by his son Cronus. Some depictions stated that these Giants had snake-like tails."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantes


"Because Cronus had betrayed his father, he feared that his offspring would do the same, and so each time Rhea gave birth, he snatched up the child and ate it. Rhea hated this and tricked him by hiding Zeus and wrapping a stone in a baby's blanket, which Cronus ate. When Zeus was full grown, he fed Cronus a drugged drink which caused him to vomit, throwing up Rhea's other children and the stone, which had been sitting in Cronus's stomach all along. Zeus then challenged Cronus to war for the kingship of the gods. At last, with the help of the Cyclopes (whom Zeus freed from Tartarus), Zeus and his siblings were victorious, while Cronus and the Titans were hurled down to imprisonment in Tartarus."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_mythology


ZEUS
a. In return for "the creation of man from clay and the theft of fire for human use, an act that enabled progress and civilization" Prometheus was punished by Zeus to eternal torment. "Prometheus was bound to a rock, where each day an eagle, the emblem of Zeus, was sent to feed on his liver, which would then grow back to be eaten again the next day." and the task of creating man went to Zeus who created Pandora who opened the pitos (jar) which Zeus had given her as a wedding present, which released a swarm of evil trapped inside it which would plague mankind leaving hope as their only consolation.
Sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus
http://www.theoi.com/Heroine/Pandora.html

b.The Greek 5 ages of men. Unlike the golden age under Cronus where Prometheus creates man from clay and men live among the gods and die at at an old age with a youthful appearance, the "Silver Age and every age that follows fall within the rule of Cronus' successor and son, Zeus. Zeus created these humans out of the ash tree. Men in the Silver age lived for one hundred years under the dominion of their mothers. They lived only a short time as grown adults, and spent that time in strife with one another. During this Age men refused to worship the gods and Zeus destroyed them for their impiety."

In case you thought that there was a smooth transition between each age be aware that Zeus ended most of them with flood or fire: "Greek mythology describes three floods, the flood of Ogyges, the flood of Deucalion, and the flood of Dardanus. Two of the Greek Ages of Man concluded with a flood: The Ogygian Deluge ended the Silver Age, and the flood of Deucalion ended the First Bronze Age. In addition to these floods, Greek mythology says the world was also periodically destroyed by fire."
Sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_Man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_flood_myths

c.Salmon-eus who founded the city of Salmone ordered his subjects "to worship him under the name of Zeus. He built a bridge of brass, over which he drove at full speed in his chariot to imitate thunder, the effect being heightened by dried skins and cauldrons trailing behind while torches were thrown into the air to represent lightning. For this sin of hubris, Zeus eventually struck him down with his thunderbolt and destroyed the town."
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmoneus

As a result I wouldn't feel very safe living in any town run by a Zeus imposter, would you??!!

d. Tantalus. Ambrosia was a drink in the mythology, like nectar, which had the capacity to grant anyone who consumes it ageless immortality. Although initially being welcomed by Zeus, after tasting Ambrosia Tantalus misbehaves when he "attempts to steal some away to give to other mortals" - to bring it back to his people and in doing so give away the secrets of the gods. In addition he offers his son Pelops as a sacrifice to the gods. His punishment from Zeus "was to stand in a pool of water beneath a fruit tree with low branches. Whenever he reached for the fruit, the branches raised his intended meal from his grasp. Whenever he bent down to get a drink, the water receded before he could get any. Over his head towers a threatening stone."
Sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalos

e. Asclepius mortal healer who was able to raise the dead. He was raised and instructed by the centaur Cheiron in the arts of healing. "In time Asklepios became a great surgeon, able not only to prevent persons from dying but also to revive those who had already died. Athena had given him blood from the vein of the Gorgon [Medusa], and he used the blood flowing on the left for destruction and on the right for salvation thereby raising the dead. Zeus, fearing that other persons might learn this treatment from Asklepios, killed him with a thunderbolt".
Source:
Handbook of classical mythology By William F. Hansen page 120

Wave bye byes to good medical practice and say Hello to cure all tonics and medical malpractice!!

Overall due to these sorts of examples it is clear that Zeus was no god, and certainly no friend of man, gigantic monster is a much more apposite label; he was after all born of the titan Cronus and the titaness Rhea making him a titan himself which as everyone knows are gigantic beings made out of titanicite!

[Witis]

Knees bow?

On the one hand, that does sound like God, as it leaves plenty to interpretation. For example, does the bit about knees bowing mean that we will all become bowlegged when the times come, or are our knees going to learn to do something new?

On the other hand, it sounds like an imposter, since God would presumably know that people bow and knees only bend.

Hubris!

[Witis]

Zeus' favourite track (OG Ghost Train Haze mix)!

[abhijit]

Behold your Master and Creator. I am God. You shalt not need material to proveth my existence, as you will never fathom nor understandth my infinite wisdom, true power and glory. I Am that I Am. I Am the keeper of time. The Lord of the infinite universe. And when the time comes, every knee shalt bow!

Nice try!!!

[homer13j]

Could God microwave a pizza so hot that even He couldn't eat it?

[Spoo]

No
She can eat anything

[techgnome]

What caused the transformation from religion to myth to occur?

Time and believership... plus the changes in society and the evolution into other religions, invading cultures, and so on... in short, history... who knows what they will be saying about Christianity 2000 years from now... perhaps it'll still be thriving, and Judaism and Baptists will be mytholoigicalised... or maybe there will be some new fangeld religion and they will talk about the Christian Mythology the way we refer to the Greek and Roman Mythologies... really, religion is just one believer away from being a Mythology...

Actually, the difference between Mythology and Religion is the activity... Mythology is the back story... the history, that may or may not (usually the case) be accurate... religion is the practice of the belief in that mythology... Christian mythology involves the creation story, Adam and Eve and all that... plus the story of the parting of the sea, and of course the most famous zombification story of all time... it's not really much different from the myth stories of other cultures .. some higher "being" created "the people" ... and over time, there have been interventions good and bad...

-tg

[Witis]

Could God microwave a pizza so hot that even He couldn't eat it?

I have read that eating pizza in the Vatican can cause astigmatism

[Witis]

No
She can eat anything

She? Do you mean that in a monotheistic sense??

[Witis]

Time and believership... plus the changes in society and the evolution into other religions, invading cultures, and so on... in short, history...

On that point do you think that the ancient Roman and Greek mythologies reflected the darker side of pre-civilised man?

Actually, the difference between Mythology and Religion is the activity... Mythology is the back story... the history, that may or may not (usually the case) be accurate... religion is the practice of the belief in that mythology... Christian mythology involves the creation story, Adam and Eve and all that... plus the story of the parting of the sea, and of course the most famous zombification story of all time... it's not really much different from the myth stories of other cultures .. some higher "being" created "the people" ... and over time, there have been interventions good and bad...

I don't believe the devout followers of the bible would agree with your interpretation!
They would tell you that they are true believers, that you cannot shake their faith in the true word of God with your blasphemies and that it is definitely no myth to them!!

[FunkyDexter]

They would tell you that they are true believers, that you cannot shake their faith in the true word of God with your blasphemies and that it is definitely no myth to them!!

And the ancients would have told you the same...

[techgnome]

On that point do you think that the ancient Roman and Greek mythologies reflected the darker side of pre-civilised man?

That insinuates that the Greeks and Romans weren't civilized? Pish posh... Religion and myth is nothing more than man's attempt at putting order to something they don't understand, to give them meaning and order in life.

I don't believe the devout followers of the bible would agree with your interpretation!
They would tell you that they are true believers, that you cannot shake their faith in the true word of God with your blasphemies and that it is definitely no myth to them!!

But isn't that how all religions act? That their religion is the "one true" religion and all others are inferior and "wrong" some how? Well then it's a good thing I didn't include cults in that statement... but then it's all up to each one's own mythinterpretation... one group's religion is another group's cult... What makes Christianity any more right that Scientology? The way many feel about Scientology is probably the same how Romans felt about Christianity.

-tg

[InvisibleDuncan]

...Latinised as Aegaeon, the "sea goat"

Am I the only one who would feel a little embarrassed worshipping a sea goat?

[Witis]

That insinuates that the Greeks and Romans weren't civilized?

I called it pre-civilised rather than uncivilised, pre-civilised suggests that their societies were developing towards civilisation although they were still lacking sufficient political, legal, religious, medical, and scientific development. The ancient Roman and Greek mythologies in particular seem to divulge a very deep all pervading darkness. My theory is that prior to the Roman Republic in 509 B.C society was essentially based on impire building, systems of aristocratic control and slavery, and consequently that is what was reflected in the religions which developed at that time.

Pish posh... Religion and myth is nothing more than man's attempt at putting order to something they don't understand, to give them meaning and order in life.

Another way of looking at it is that religion is an evolving intellection which has not yet developed into a real science, and mythology is the label which is applied to defunct models.

But isn't that how all religions act? That their religion is the "one true" religion and all others are inferior and "wrong" some how? Well then it's a good thing I didn't include cults in that statement... but then it's all up to each one's own mythinterpretation... one group's religion is another group's cult... What makes Christianity any more right that Scientology? The way many feel about Scientology is probably the same how Romans felt about Christianity.

As far as I am aware if a small group of men develop a set of religious doctrines, be they biblically derived or not as in the case of Scientology, which they all believe in and adhere to it is most likely referred to as a cult; however, if the doctrines gain widespread acceptance it is then referred to as a religion. One way to gauge a religion's success is by how long it can maintain widespread popular support.

[Witis]

Am I the only one who would feel a little embarrassed worshipping a sea goat?

I feel the same embarrassment about Leela every time I watch Futurama!

[Shaggy Hiker]

I called it pre-civilised rather than uncivilised, pre-civilised suggests that their societies were developing towards civilisation although they were still lacking sufficient political, legal, religious, medical, and scientific development. The ancient Roman and Greek mythologies in particular seem to divulge a very deep all pervading darkness. My theory is that prior to the Roman Republic in 509 B.C society was essentially based on impire building, systems of aristocratic control and slavery, and consequently that is what was reflected in the religions which developed at that time.

Is "impire" what ThE ImP was working on?

By the way, does your theory suggest that society was essentially not based on empire building, systems of aristocratic control and slavery following the establishment of the Roman Republic?

[Jacob Roman]

I am the Roman Republic

[techgnome]

*I* am the Roman Republic.

-tg

[Shaggy Hiker]

*I* am the Roman Republic.

-SH

[_God_]

*I* am the Roman Republic.

-God

[Spoo]

OK, it must really be God
2 posts, but showing as 0 .. 0-mini-potent?