[RESOLVED] [SERIOUS] Boston Bombings [/SERIOUS]

[Siddharth Rout]

My heart goes out to victims and survivors of the Boston Blast.

I am disappointed and angered with such acts of violence.

[Nightwalker83]

Well, if no one takes responsibility for that bombings it may as well be because someone was upset at the result of someones tasteless cooking.

[Siddharth Rout]

@NM: I fail to see the humor in such a tragic event...

[Nightwalker83]

@NM: I fail to see the humor in such a tragic event...

It wasn't a joke! They are going to have a hard time figuring out why someone did this.

[Siddharth Rout]

Ah! I am not familiar of that phrase then I doubt if FBI will have a hard time. I am sure and hope that they will find who is responsible.

[Nightwalker83]

Ah! I am not familiar of that phrase then I doubt if FBI will have a hard time. I am sure and hope that they will find who is responsible.

Maybe but there are so many nationalities that take part in the marathon!

[dilettante]

It makes you wonder about leaving the house anymore. But next some fool with a mortar will lob a few shots at random into a densly populated neighborhood and that refuge will be gone too.

You can only feel sad for the state of the world.

[SJWhiteley]

It makes you wonder about leaving the house anymore. But next some fool with a mortar will lob a few shots at random into a densly populated neighborhood and that refuge will be gone too.

You can only feel sad for the state of the world.

The world hasn't changed. We just know more about the barbaric nature of the human mind, and demonstrates there's little we can do to modify such behavior. The best we can do is hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and not give credence to those who do harm to innocent people.

[Siddharth Rout]

Amended the Title....

[Shaggy Hiker]

Considering this is Boston, the range of possible suspects is a whole lot stranger than if this had been NY. Frankly, I suspect that it will turn out to be some home-grown, disgruntled, somebody, but there are weirder alternatives. Boston has been a hotbed for some causes that get little attention in other parts of the country, such as the IRA, and some odd domestic extremist views like the mostly moribund Lyndon LaRouche followers. I really doubt it will turn out to be any such group, but the alternatives in Boston are somewhat unusually varied.

In any case, I expect that this will be solved, and solved fairly quickly.

[TysonLPrice]

Considering this is Boston, the range of possible suspects is a whole lot stranger than if this had been NY. Frankly, I suspect that it will turn out to be some home-grown, disgruntled, somebody, but there are weirder alternatives. Boston has been a hotbed for some causes that get little attention in other parts of the country, such as the IRA, and some odd domestic extremist views like the mostly moribund Lyndon LaRouche followers. I really doubt it will turn out to be any such group, but the alternatives in Boston are somewhat unusually varied.

In any case, I expect that this will be solved, and solved fairly quickly.

I agree with everything exept "the range of possible suspects is a whole lot stranger than if this had been NY". There are around 625,000 people in Boston and over 8,000,000 in New York city. Granted about 25% of Boston is Irish but I don't think the IRA is a nasty as they used to be.

At any rate my guess is it is going to turn out to be Americans did it.

[Siddharth Rout]

I guess it is too early to guess who did it.

Anyways anyone from Boston area? Hope you and your families are ok?

[Niya]

Considering this is Boston, the range of possible suspects is a whole lot stranger than if this had been NY. Frankly, I suspect that it will turn out to be some home-grown, disgruntled, somebody, but there are weirder alternatives.

There is a theory out there about these home-grown disgruntled mass murderers in a relatively obscure section of the internet. At first they might read like they were written by people who are nuts but after reading a couple of them I kinda see their point. Here is one such example. Its a little hard to grasp at first but when I think about it, it quite a sensible theory. Note, this theory doesn't account for such acts taking place in countries with real problems like being occupied by a foreign power, oppressive dictators or general lawlessness(Somalia). But it fits perfectly for places with abundant wealth, opportunities and security like the USA or most first world countries.

Please note that the linked article is not satirical. He actually believes that.

[EDIT]

Here is another such article explaining the theory with a more analytical tone.

[Spoo]

I'm still confused by the report at yesterday afternoon's news conference
(Gov of Mass and Boston Police Chief) about a 3rd explosion at the JFK Library.

That is no longer mentioned.
How could they get that wrong?

[SJWhiteley]

There is a theory out there about these home-grown disgruntled mass murderers in a relatively obscure section of the internet. At first they might read like they were written by people who are nuts but after reading a couple of them I kinda see their point. Here is one such example. Its a little hard to grasp at first but when I think about it, it quite a sensible theory. Note, this theory doesn't account for such acts taking place in countries with real problems like being occupied by a foreign power, oppressive dictators or general lawlessness(Somalia). But it fits perfectly for places with abundant wealth, opportunities and security like the USA or most first world countries.

Please note that the linked article is not satirical. He actually believes that.

[EDIT]

Here is another such article explaining the theory with a more analytical tone.

Interesting links, and an effect I've seen theorized before. Consider: think in your own mind, be honest with oneself, the secret thoughts that one harbors; the thoughts that any conscious and civilized mind would reject and keep locked away, to never see the light of day. Now apply any combination of the 'seven deadly sins' to that mind, and it can be a rather frightening combination.

I'm still confused by the report at yesterday afternoon's news conference
(Gov of Mass and Boston Police Chief) about a 3rd explosion at the JFK Library.

That is no longer mentioned.
How could they get that wrong?

Lots of things will be wrong in the hurried attempt to control a chaotic situation.

It is the media [public] demand for attention that drives a preemptive announcement of 'facts' before they are determined to be so. Unfortunately, this leads to an up rise in conspiracy theories about any given event (which, I might add, can be very compelling).

[Shaggy Hiker]

There was an incident at the library, but it wasn't an explosion, it was just a fire, and it has been deemed to be unrelated at this time.

[Niya]

Interesting links, and an effect I've seen theorized before. Consider: think in your own mind, be honest with oneself, the secret thoughts that one harbors; the thoughts that any conscious and civilized mind would reject and keep locked away, to never see the light of day. Now apply any combination of the 'seven deadly sins' to that mind, and it can be a rather frightening combination.

In that context, those articles speak of unfulfilled lust which is quite powerful. Personally, I think pride is the only one more powerful. Think of the horrible things done by Nazi Germany. That was possible because of extreme nationalist and racial pride. I think in a lot of places where such tragedies occur, pride of some kind has a part to play, weather its nationalist pride, religious pride or pride based on cherished values of the offending group derived from things like "left wing" or "right wing" ideologies. Pride is the most dangerous sin.

I bet those Boston bombings were the work of some nut job "right wing" group with some serious delusions of grandeur.

[Spoo]

Shaggy

Thanks for that update

[Shaggy Hiker]

In that context, those articles speak of unfulfilled lust which is quite powerful. Personally, I think pride is the only one more powerful. Think of the horrible things done by Nazi Germany. That was possible because of extreme nationalist and racial pride. I think in a lot of places where such tragedies occur, pride of some kind has a part to play, weather its nationalist pride, religious pride or pride based on cherished values of the offending group derived from things like "left wing" or "right wing" ideologies. Pride is the most dangerous sin.

I bet those Boston bombings were the work of some nut job "right wing" group with some serious delusions of grandeur.

Greed is right up there, too. If only they had an offsetting amount of sloth.

From the descrptions of the bomb that are coming out, the death toll is amazingly low. From the description of some of the injuries, though, it sounds like the greatest result of the Iraq and Afghan wars has been the improvements in medical knowledge regarding traumatic blast injuries. The death toll would clearly have been higher if the medical staff hadn't been very effective.

[Siddharth Rout]

And now Bangalore (India)!!!! Hmph!

[Nightwalker83]

And now Bangalore (India)!!!! Hmph!

When did that happen?

[SJWhiteley]

From the descrptions of the bomb that are coming out, the death toll is amazingly low. From the description of some of the injuries, though, it sounds like the greatest result of the Iraq and Afghan wars has been the improvements in medical knowledge regarding traumatic blast injuries. The death toll would clearly have been higher if the medical staff hadn't been very effective.

You got that right, Shaggy!

First aid, emergency response and trauma care are crucial.

While I often lament the vast (mis)information we have available and the repercussions, one of the things that I push is everyone - everyone - should be trained in at least CPR and possibly first aid. This is the message that I push. I, personally, have wilderness first aid; my wife has wilderness first responder (although we are up for renewal, now).

[techgnome]

I think it's more than just medical advances... being near the finish line, there was medical staff on hand as well as quite a few people right there who were able to quickly help the injured.

-tg

[InvisibleDuncan]

Granted about 25% of Boston is Irish but I don't think the IRA is a nasty as they used to be.

The IRA pretty much ended as an effective force of terrorism when their main source of funding (the USA) dried up after the September 11th attacks in NY suddenly brought home to their donors exactly what being on the receiving end of terrorism felt like. As a result, they segued out of violence and into politics, leaving Northern Ireland a far safer and more prosperous place than it was during their heyday.

There are still a few fringe groups (the Real IRA, for example) who plant roadside bombs, murder policemen and shoot soldiers as they're collecting pizza, but thankfully their lack of finance (other than from their normal criminal enterprises of people trafficking, drug running and protection rackets) means that these attacks are diminishing.

As for the possibility of an IRA link to this atrocity, it seems massively unlikely; there is absolutely no reason why they would carry out an attack there. Their purpose was to terrorise the British Government into acceding to their demands, and there's no way that cause would be advanced by attacking Americans in America.

Although someone mentioned that there's no way the perpetrators could get away with the full force of the US law enforcement agencies hunting them, I'm afraid that's not necessarily true. It looks like the bombs were made out of very basic, easy to obtain components. If someone bought each item individually from different shops in different towns over a period of time, paying cash for everything, they would be fairly untraceable.

Hopefully they have made a mistake somewhere along the line that will lead to their capture (the fact that several of the devices thankfully didn't go off would imply that they're relatively amateurish), but I wouldn't like to bet on it. Being evil, vicious and murderous doesn't prevent someone from being cunning and lucky.

[TysonLPrice]

The IRA pretty much ended as an effective force of terrorism when their main source of funding (the USA) dried up after the September 11th attacks in NY suddenly brought home to their donors exactly what being on the receiving end of terrorism felt like. As a result, they segued out of violence and into politics, leaving Northern Ireland a far safer and more prosperous place than it was during their heyday.

There are still a few fringe groups (the Real IRA, for example) who plant roadside bombs, murder policemen and shoot soldiers as they're collecting pizza, but thankfully their lack of finance (other than from their normal criminal enterprises of people trafficking, drug running and protection rackets) means that these attacks are diminishing.

As for the possibility of an IRA link to this atrocity, it seems massively unlikely; there is absolutely no reason why they would carry out an attack there. Their purpose was to terrorise the British Government into acceding to their demands, and there's no way that cause would be advanced by attacking Americans in America.

Although someone mentioned that there's no way the perpetrators could get away with the full force of the US law enforcement agencies hunting them, I'm afraid that's not necessarily true. It looks like the bombs were made out of very basic, easy to obtain components. If someone bought each item individually from different shops in different towns over a period of time, paying cash for everything, they would be fairly untraceable.

Hopefully they have made a mistake somewhere along the line that will lead to their capture (the fact that several of the devices thankfully didn't go off would imply that they're relatively amateurish), but I wouldn't like to bet on it. Being evil, vicious and murderous doesn't prevent someone from being cunning and lucky.

From 1978 to 1995, Kaczynski, the unabomber, sent 16 bombs to targets including universities and airlines, killing three people and injuring 23.

[InvisibleDuncan]

From 1978 to 1995, Kaczynski, the unabomber, sent 16 bombs to targets including universities and airlines, killing three people and injuring 23.

Exactly. A single person with a grudge or agenda can be incredibly difficult to track down.

[homer13j]

I bet those Boston bombings were the work of some nut job "right wing" group with some serious delusions of grandeur.

Well, you & Shaggy are certainly not the only ones hoping for such an outcome...

Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a white American

But what if it isn't? I can guarantee you this event will be spun as just another "isolated incident" if it turns out to be left wing "Weather Underground" or "Occupy" types or - heaven forbid - Islamists.

I'll never forget watching the wind get sucked from the media's collective sails when the Beltway Sniper was revealed not to be a disgruntled "white guy in a white van" like everyone was reporting (and hoping for) but a pair of black Muslim converts in an old cop car.

[Shaggy Hiker]

The better outcome would be for it to be domestic rather than foreign. The Boston marathon, and Boston in general, isn't all that high profile. If foreign terrorists are willing to go bombing there, then they are going anywhere. That's a whole lot of country.

Still, it happens. Having grown up in that area and moved far from that area, I have the feeling that Boston is kind of provincial. I hear about the NY marathon out here, but not Boston (though I heard about it plenty growing up, as it wasn't very far away). From that perspective, it seems more likely that a certain type of person would be involved.

As far as I can see, all bombings are advertisements of one sort or another. They are terrorist attacks (as opposed to nut-job, suicidal, shooters who have their own hard-to-fathom adgenda that may not involve other people), and most terrorist attacks seem to have one ultimate message: Look at me! In some cases, such as 9/11, the purpose seems to have been one of gaining that which nourishes organizations (terrorist or otherwise), which is money and support. They clearly weren't trying to overthrow the US, or anything close to that. Instead, there are lots of places that a person with terrorist leanings can invest their time and money, and Al-Q just wanted to make sure that they got a large share of that investment. The individual people may not have thought it through to that extent, but it was the real goal. Furthermore, it is a necessary goal for any organization to inspire support, funding, commitment, and so forth, which they certainly did with that attack.

If you look at Oklahoma City or the Atlanta Olympics bombings, the objective wasn't to kill a certain person (the unabomber kind of fits into this category, except that he appears to have been more of an assasin with highly specific intended targets than a general bomber set on maximizing killing), it was mostly just to make some kind of signature statement. This is especially true in the case of the Atlanta Olympics bombings, because Eric Rudolph also bombed a few other places, but those were all pretty tightly focused on his religious/political beliefs. The Olympics bombing was atypical for him as it was mostly just grabbing attention.

So, who would want to advertise in Boston? Probably somebody who wants their message to get out to a local audience, because the Boston marathon doesn't get the press that some others do. Of course, it got it now, so the other alternative is that they lacked the funds to travel farther. Still, I find it hard to believe that anybody outside of that area would think, "I'm going to target the Boston Marathon.", so I expect it to be fairly local.

[TysonLPrice]

The Boston marathon, and Boston in general, isn't all that high profile.

The Boston Marathon is one of the premiere marathon races in the world. I can't speak to the city part. Here is a link about the race.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/outdoor...n-marathon.htm

[homer13j]

I really don't see how the political affiliation of the culprit would determine "a better outcome" other than giving extreme partisans more ammo to go after their political adversaries and/or enhance their ability to say "I told you so."

the Boston marathon doesn't get the press that some others do.

Not sure where you're getting this from. It's arguably the biggest marathon event in the world.

[Shaggy Hiker]

When I grew up in that area, we heard about no other race in the world (except the olympics, I suppose). Since I left that area, I'm not sure when I last heard about it, but I've seen footage of the NYC marathon many times. Frankly, my experience was that Boston was either fading, or was always a bit more provincial when it came to marathons. Apparently, I may well have been wrong about that.

My point about the 'better outcome' is kind of splitting hairs, but since I felt that the Boston marathon was more provincial, I had the opinion, apparently mistaken, that it was a less well known venue that wouldn't attract the international attention (good and bad) that higher-profile events might. If the initial opinion was wrong, then the conclusion is invalid.

[FunkyDexter]

The Boston Marathon is one of the premiere marathon races in the world

I have to say, I'd never heard of it before the recent events.

I really don't see how the political affiliation of the culprit would determine "a better outcome" other than giving extreme partisans more ammo to go after their political adversaries and/or enhance their ability to say "I told you so."

Certainly over here in blighty our media are pretty much desparate to pin it on a domestic rather than an international culprit and I think that's because, in a somewhat muddied understanding, we fear that an international attack on the US could kick off another Afghanistan or Iraq. I don't think it actually would (while undeniably tragic to those involved this is hardly on a par with 9/11) but there's an almost sumbliminal, and not entirely rational, fear of that. In that regard you could argue that a domestic outcome would represent a "better outcome". That doesn't really have anything to do with the political affiliations of the attacker or the commentators though.

On the IRA thing, it's possible that they were involved but I agree with ID, it's highly unlikely. I can't imagine the organisation would be involved but it's possible some Bostonian Irish sympathiser could have taken it upon himself. What I've seen on the news so far would certainly fit their MO from the eighties so a copycat could be a feasible explanation. It's a total speculation, though, and not really worth considering until there's some further evidence.

My personal theory is that it's probably not politically or idealogically motivated, based purely on the fact that nobody's laying claim to it. That makes me think you're probably looking at a "lone nutter" type.

[Siddharth Rout]

When did that happen?

17th Apr IST

Blast at Texas plant... Fortunately there is no indication so far that the blast is related to terrorism.

Obama sent a letter with traces of ricin...

I think I should just reading new anymore

[Shaggy Hiker]

The blast in Texas is almost certainly unintentional, though the death toll was terribly high. It was a fertilizer plant, and the blast appears to have come after a fire had been burning for some time (several of the dead were first responders to that fire). When you get a fire around fertilizer....bad things happen. I seem to remember hearing that the deadliest explosion in US history was caused by a fertilizer laden ship blowing up. That happened down along the gulf somewhere, too, if I remember right.

On a lighter note, smoking was banned around the Capitol because people were afraid of all the fertilizer being produced by that particular factory. They later realized that manure is not the explosive kind of fertilizer.

[dclamp]

Looks like the FBI has a suspect.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-i...ions-in-boston

[Shaggy Hiker]

Barely, though. There have already been a couple false leads announced.

[Nightwalker83]

The blast in Texas is almost certainly unintentional, though the death toll was terribly high. It was a fertilizer plant, and the blast appears to have come after a fire had been burning for some time (several of the dead were first responders to that fire). When you get a fire around fertilizer....bad things happen. I seem to remember hearing that the deadliest explosion in US history was caused by a fertilizer laden ship blowing up. That happened down along the gulf somewhere, too, if I remember right.

What I'd like to know is how far away from the town was the plant?

Edit:

From 1978 to 1995, Kaczynski, the unabomber, sent 16 bombs to targets including universities and airlines, killing three people and injuring 23.

Wasn't his whole reason for the bombings a rant against technology? If that was the case I sympathize! Although, I am not saying the killings were good just the part about being anti technology.

[homer13j]

One suspect dead, the other still on the loose. And they're from Chechnya of all places...

One Boston Marathon suspect killed; second suspect, his brother, on loose after firefight

If you've seen the raw cell phone video of the Texas explosion it's shocking to say the least. And I can sympathize with the kid you can hear freaking out. When I was 6 a gasoline distributor directly across the train tracks from our apartment was destroyed in a series of explosions that blew out every window on two sides of our building. I had nightmares for years about that. But that was nothing compared to this.

Wasn't his whole reason for the bombings a rant against technology? If that was the case I sympathize! Although, I am not saying the killings were good just the part about being anti technology.

Interesting quote from a member of a programmer's forum...

[Niya]

Interesting quote from a member of a programmer's forum...

I was thinking the same thing.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It's beginning to sound like an early episode of Law & Order. Since I don't have a television, I don't watch much TV, but I did happen to catch various early episodes of Law & Order because I was living out of hotels for long stretches of time. Whenever those early episodes needed some enormous, malevolent, unkowable, and relentlessly violent solution to a problem it was always the same: Chechens!

Life is imitating art. I hope they catch the other guys alive so that somebody can explaing what the?!?!?!?