To the VB teenagers out there

[ShepherdOfChaos]

First off, I just want to say Cryogenic Legumes, Hominids! (cool beans, man!). It's really neat to have so many youngsters learning VB.

Some advice. Try to balance your "explorations" with some formal study of VB (or other computer science topics, like data structures and algorithms). Doesn't necessarily have to be in a classroom. You are all obviously smart enough to learn on your own. Some of the certification study guide books are an excellent way to broaden the scope of your knowledge and make you a more comprehensive programmer.

What I'm trying to say is don't make the mistake of falling for the Hacker's romantic notion that being "smart" and "clever" is enough. Hackers are a dime a dozen, and the vast majority do not make a living at programming.

With some persistence and discipline, you guys and gals have the potential to be master programmers by your early twenties. That can net you about 70K a year (US dollars). By your mid to late twenties, you can be well off and knowledgable enough to do whatever you please, like start your own consulting firm, game company, etc.

Also, don't be afraid to look for a job, no matter what your age. If you're not yet qualified, you will be told so, and then you'll know what areas need work. And you will have made some industry contacts, contacts that will be banging down your door as soon as you are qualified.

Advice offered by a 35 year old "smart" and "clever" hacker who went down the wrong path to programming "glory".

[Sam Finch]

Thanks for the advice, I'm 19 and have pretty much decided that programming is the career move for me.

However VB is the only language I know, I'm quite good with the API and subclassing and have some knowledge of how windows functions,(Messages, threads, mutexes,dcs etc) and how VB handles itself. however although i have experience with HTML i have little experience with scripting languages and VB web applications.

I want to know what other languages to learn and how else to expand my knowlege to make money,

I'm doing a maths degree at the moment so how can I encorporate that into what I learn.

[da_silvy]

yeah, thanks for the advice

i'm only 13
and i think i will do something to do with computers,
not neccessarily something in vb

Is it just me or are all the companies that offer VB courses deliberately withholding information until you have signed up with them? for instance:

I enquired about a Computeach Vb course, the representative came round for an interview, and blatantly refused to give me any info whatsoever about Vb, instead he gave me a load of rubbish about C++ being the one to go for these days. this fact may be true, but Vb is the most widely used language according to his own figures (44% of the market).
the course would have cost me about $3500 but he only told me that at the end of the interview. needless to say i cant afford that at my age (19). another course i sent off for info about didnt include any price info at all, not even by phone or website!

I really want to do a formal course in VB but I dont know anywhere i can go that isnt going to destroy my bank balance. Plus I'm unemployed too (which is why i am wanting a course in the first place).

Does anyone else have any ideas, ther must be other people in my position?

[TimBarnette]

When I got into the field, it was only COBOL. I went to a "TRADE SCHOOL", and it was expensive, but I financed it.

Was worth it in the long run. Now am a partner at a consulting firm.

I've been hiring younger people that are really "into it".. I hire them with some technical knowledge at Entry Level Wages, throw some projects at them (where I serve as a Project Mentor), and it's been working out great. I have a few guys as a result of this that are among the smartest people I've ever met, and yet the rest of the world wouldn't have given them a chance.

Where's everybody on here located at? I'm in the Detroit area.

[Bob Baddeley]

Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I think that a class would be helpful, but I'd rather push through it on my own. I just turned 18, and I'm ready to take on the world =) well...

Btw, To get to my house, go to the middle of nowhere, turn left and go another hundred miles, then turn around a few times, point in a random direction, and go that way. You won't find it, but those directions are more fun than getting lost following the correct ones. ?? Anyway, I live in Great Falls, Montana (just about the center of montana).

bob

Im in Derbyshire, England, go find a map!

[Sam Finch]

I'm in London, that's about 60 or 70 miles south of Derbyshire.

[TimBarnette]

Sorry, guys... I think of everything from a local perspective.. probably never heard of Detroit before.. Detroit, Michigan. Did you ever hear of Detroit? If so, what kind of image does it conjure up?

I have "freeware" for fitness that I let users download, and I'm finding that about 40% of my users are European.. I need to stop thinking local... stop thinking local... stop thinking local....

[Sam Finch]

They make cars or domething in Detroit don't they, Never heard of Michigan though, what do they do there?

[Phobic]

I'm 16, tought myself VB since 13. Never really got into hacking, just making crap projects for friends and whatnot. My dad had me start working for him, and I've made a couple of unique controls for an application he's building (don't tell him, but it's really bad). Anyhow, I've been looking for jobs, but I couldn't get one because I didn't have enough time. The other is a possibility at a computer store over the summer. I'm looking for classes, but I've heard the ones available in school are basically, well, ****. Other classes are kinda expensive at local colleges, but I'm working it out.

Shaker Heights (by Cleveland), Ohio.

[Bios]

Hello all,
I've had 16 birthdays so far, and started programming around 8 or 9 in BASIC on my grandmothers computer since then I've been hooked. I programmed in QBasic for a while then one day I discovered VB 3.0 and was kinda like wow, this is cool. That was at about 12 or 13 I believe. Also since then I've learned the complete ins and outs of HTML and Java Scripting. Also, I know some limited PERL, but get little chance to practice it. I tried to learn C++ from this book I had, but someone stole the CD out of it somehow (I dunno why or how). So now I don't have C++ anymore. One of these day's I'll get it and try to learn it. I've also been into computer hardware for a couple of years now. I've gotten very good at fixing/building computers. Pretty much all my friends computers were made by me (it's just cheaper that way). I've taken basically every tech course my school offers from Keyboarding to Cad to Electronics, but they don't offer any computer programming courses. I recently went to a night course at Prairie State College (I community college near where I live). Well, I guess that's about it (I kinda feel like I just wrote my resume all over again, but oh well).

-Leonard Urbanowski

PS...I live in just out side of Chicago, IL...and am graduating high school half way through next year (so around December)...and I'd probably be interested in going to Detroit...I dunno just mail me with any details you could give me about it.

[amanda]

Well, I search and I search, but I just can't find many Aussies out there.
I am not a teenage VB programmer... more like a late 20's one, but all the same I like to read about other learners advice and problems so I may be able to fix mine.
I have just decided to take the big jump and look at a carrer change. I am an Environmental Chemist and with Australia being so environmentally aware (choke) there are not that many jobs around.... and if there are, they pay like crap. I am teaching myself VB with about 50 billion books. The courses were too expensive and seemed a complete rip off so I am giving it a go by myself.
Other people out there who are teaching themselves... keep at it and all will fall into place one day!

[excess]

Amanda you arent the only one!
I work for my local concil and learn vb on the side, ive just been doing tutorials online, im not sure if ill get a job coding vb, there is alot to learn but ill stick with it and see how far i go.
Brisbane Australia

I've been programming since i was about 13 or 14, started in BASIC then moved up to VB. I found it a lot easier to pick up by looking through the vb help files and looking at other peoples work like at www.planetsourcecode.com

[Phil.Hebert]

I have been programming since I was 7!!!! I had this old DM5 (8086) computer and that was all you could do on it. I know GWBasic, QBasic, and now VB. I also know HTML, and some JavaScript. Im 18 now, so I am getting more into education on it.

[kedaman]

I started programming in gwbasic when i was 12. Now im 19 and use VB5.

By the way, every one here is talking about their experience with vb, the age when they started programming. Why are we doing that? I mean everyone should know that starting programming earlyer doesn't determine the capacity in programming you have. It's the experience that counts. Or should I say the amount of lines you coded from the very beginning. Anyway, im from Finland, Åland, that little island that is between Sweden and Finland.

[ljdarten]

hmm... i sense a pattern here and i seem to be part of it.

i started programming in gwbasic at a very young age on my dad's ibm pcjr. im 22 right now. went to qbasic, made a brief stop in turbo pascal, got a copy of vb and have been working at that for a few years. looked at c occassionally, but haven't got around to getting any good at it. learned html, working on vbscript too. Vb is where I think i would like to stay, but still got a few holes in my knowledge.

right now (at my "real" job) i program in business basic.
it's a step back, i think, but i've been working in vb on my own.

I actually live fairly near Detroit, in Mount Clemens. I would be very interested in finding out more about your company, Tim. Business basic a pretty good language, but my brain is beginning to melt from the monotonous, clustered programs I have to deal with all day.
you never appreciate why you must make modular code until you deal with years old code and the people who wrote it quit a long time ago <G>

[gfurner]

I'm 15, just got into vb6. My dad's told me that for a job I should know Java Script. Could anyone advice me what to get.
Thanks

[waas]

I'm no teenager, by a long shot, but I am new to VB, and I think I can offer some words not totally useless to young programmers. At least this is what I would like to be able to go back and tell myself twenty years ago, so take it as advice from your future.

A really smart guy told me: you get paid a little bit for what you do; you get paid a little more for what you know; but you get paid the most for what you are responsible for. Take responsibility for your own training, your own work, and your own product.

The whiz-bang coding is fine, and has many good uses - but care most about the people you are developing for. Your job is to make their job easier (faster, smarter, more accurate, less costly).

Have someone other than you try to use your code. Communicate clearly with the user. Learn good programming practices and use them. Handle errors intelligently. Be willing to learn from other people. Don't be lazy. Learn to read (documentation, code, manuals). Exert some ergs (units of work). Don't code for your own enjoyment. The real fun is seeing what you create become useful and valued.

And keep your eyes open. If you think that something is too hard or could be done better, that's your opportunity. Don't be afraid to do something on your own initiative. Other people may think you are dreaming, but I can tell you from personal experience that a good idea makes its own way.

[gvirden]

I've got a 9 and a 7 year old who spend quite a bit of time on computer games, in fact, more time on these games than the TV games. What do you think would be the best way to introduce them to programming? They both learned how to load and unload software and play the games even before they knew how to read. Is there is a fun way to learn VB as a kid?

[Desire]

Hi,
I started programming at 16 with Turbo Pascal and then COBOL (which I think is a great language) at college. Once I finished there I started learning VB5 for myself and I love it. I've been looking for a job using VB5 but nobody will give me one as I have no formal Qualifactions in it.

I'm always greatfull for any advice people can offer about programming so keep it coming.

Desire.
Lives in Lowestoft, England.
Don't worry if you don't know where that is 'cause nobody else does either.

[gglaze]

It looks like some of you guys are getting started really early, like 12 or 13. That's great! I really envy you. I didn't get my act together until I was 16, when I got a job writing in QBasic, and then I moved to VB3 a year later. Now I'm 22, and I just started graduate school in Austin, Texas. I worked through high school and college, so I've been doing VB for about 6 or 7 years now.

I definitely recommend to the younger guys here that are still in school to get a job and start working right away. By the time I graduated, I had much more experience than any of my peers. To the really great companies, this is the best combination - a college degree, combined with some good experience, which demonstrates a lot of initiative. I have been recruited by just about every big company down here, and my friends in other areas like finance are extremely jealous of the ridiculously unbelievable offers that I have been getting. I recently accepted an offer to move to a really great company here in Austin, and well, lets just say the amount of money a 22-year-old with a little experience can get down here is insane!

So I definitely recommend that you guys get out there and find a way to get some good experience. You're never too young to start building a resume, and even if you're young, if you have some skills I know there are a ton of companies out there that would love to get their hands on you. And if any of you teenagers reading this are in Texas, especially in Austin, drop me a line - I'd love to meet you!

[Marc Burmeister]

I started Vb programming this year because I thought a course in high school would be fun. During the first weeks of it we were learning binary numbers and how to convert them, which really sucked and I almost dropped the class. But then we finally started Vb programming and I am one of the top in my class getting an A- last semester and have done extra work reading books about Vb and making games. Now I even know more than my teacher does! Which kinda scares her. I have been fooling around with Windows 95 since it started and know how to fix a lot of problems because my Compaq has practically had everyone out there. Anyway, I am graduating high school early December of 2001 and after that I am going to Iowa Community College or Indian Hills Community college. If there is anyone interested in hiring me after I further my education just send a note to [email protected] and we'll keep in touch...

[Steve1]

Hi I am 18 in orlando just moved from chicago. I am really into programming as well. I took your advice and applied to some companies today. Will see what kind of replies I get. Bios, just wanted to tell you that you that there is a freeware c++ compiler out there. I don't remember the exact name however. Well thanks greatly for the advice and belief in our abilities. Most of the adults out there believe anyone who doesn't currenlty have a full 4 year degree knows nothing. At least there are a few who see we can do good things also

[cady]

Wow! I'm beginning to feel quite old. I am one of the late starters. Worked in a couple of fields, last as a Travel Agent. One day I realized that I needed to make a serious change, the internet is killing travel agencies and I needed to find something that I really wanted to do. So I quit my job, took out a student loan and took a Very Intense 7 week 8-5 daily class in VB. The school required that each student take and pass with high scores an aptitude test before they would even let you attend. With no former experience, I passed (whew!) and at 33 years old basically started over. In 2 months I was hired in the interactive department at a advertising business as a programmer/developer. It was hard but worth it. I wish I had started at 12 and 13 like most of you, when I made more brain cells. And I agree with the others, learn,learn,learn! Read everything, keep up on the latest, and get as many languages as you can, and certifications(they are considered important). You guys do this and I envy where you will be at my age (34 now). Anyway good luck to all!
(by the way Kansas City MO)

[drewski]

I'm 14 right now and I'm still pretty new to vb. I've been programming since I think I was about 11 or 12 and started out in qbasic. I think compared to other people I've been learning kinda slow but I think that's because I don't really have any real driving force to push me along. It helps if I have an obligation to what I'm doing. I'm working on a game for school and it's helped me come along not really in learning but using the things I've already learned.

Hey, I heard some people complaining about finding good programming classes to go to. Just the other day I found this college online that specializes in game programming and animation. The tuition didn't seem too high but I don't really know what is good or bad. I'm not sure if the college teaches classes in vb but it seemed like a really cool place. If anyone wants to check it out the site is www.digipen.com

Hope someone finds this useful,
Drew

[KnightM]

Well, I've been programming for as long as I can remember. (it's sad, I know) I started out on a Texas Instrument computer when I was around 4 years old, and have "evolved" since then. Now at 16 I can program in VB, C++, J++, etc. I also do HTML and stuff like that and I am the Computer Admin. for my school.
Schools (High schools) don't offer anything to do with computer science/programming though..or at least any that I know of.

[drewski]

Hey you're the computer administrator at your school? Cool! My brother is something like that just he's like an aprentice or something. He doesn't do programming though. He does some html but that's all. He's more into the hardware and taking the computer apart and putting it back to gether. My family is kinda into the computer generation. With 3 desktops and two laptops I think we're a bit spoiled but not too much cause with a big family like mine there's never enough computers

That's enough of me yakking let's hear some more teenagers out there.

[Marc Burmeister]

It's weird that you said no high schools ever offer programming. Int my little tiny 500 student high school we have a VB programming class, but only 7 students(including me) are enrolled. For next year 30 something people have already signed up. The teacher said there could also be a C++ class for next year. I always thought my school was horrible but I guess not anymore...

[Bob Baddeley]

boy are you lucky. My high school of 2000 doesn't offer anything remotely like programming. We tried to get one going this year, but the district won't let us if we don't have at least 15 people. (it's not fiscally viable, they say) Bloody ******s. Who needs a class anyway? I've got this forum.

[Mag-Net]

Wow, I am 16, and have been programming for about 4 years, with simple stuff, like HTML, JavaScript, and DHTML, then I done some Delphi (and never really learned much and didnt stick to it), I did a little Java, and a little C/C++. That was fun. I can read the languages, and write little things, but have been programming in vb for about ummm....4 months i would say, and got to grips with it quite well. I have been writing some apps for myself, and just stuff to learn techniques. I enjoy writing internet apps, with sockets and things, making two computers talk to each other is so much fun! lol...anyway, I havent been thinking about a job, although I have worked in a computer shop making computers and upgrading/fixing..them and all that since i was about 13. That stuff is too easy. I have no intention of sticking with VB, just using it as somehting to learn windows programming in, and techniques. I want to learn C/C++ later, when I have more time. I am thinking of setting up a company with my friend making websites, we have made a couple, and as I have a lot of knowledge of web programming think this would be a good idea. I want to go to uni, so am not thinking of it as a full time job or somehting, just to make some cash.

As for hacking, i wouldnt class myself as a hacker, but just gaining access to the skool network, to get stuff that i need is just essential..lol..

ah well that is my story!

[Kerrberr99]

I am going to be working with a partner when I'm about 16. I am only 12(and about to turn 13) right now. But I know a friend who is a very good V.B. Programer. He makes bidding programs. I would be his "Professional E-Mail answerer". It sounds like a boring job but he gets about two hours worth of answering E-Mail. I think that it would be some good pay. I am still on my first book but when I am done with my secon (the one that he looked over and decided not to give it to me) book I will show him what I can do and convince him to let me study all of the code and than I can know what exactaly his program does and I can answer his E-Mail super simple while he works on his programs. He is a realy nice guy and I am almost done with my first book (only on chapter 16 out of 35, Almost half way. That's good for me!)
I have been very good though. I sometimes wright my own programs that arn't that usefull, but I can come up with some of my own code.


Well, That's what I have to say!!

[greendey]

Hello all,
I'm 15(for 2 more weeks) and I live in Oswego, New York. Its a small town of about 20,000 people and a college. My high school has about 1600 people and the thing thats really good is the fact that this town has a nuke plant which pays huge taxes and the school district budget is huge. We have a programming room, a keyboarding room, a library/media center, a "writing center", a graphics development room, a desktop publishing room, and a tv studio which are all completely loaded with PII computers running on windows NT. Also, just about every class room has a few computers and each student has an NT account with personal access to part of a 50gb hard disk. Our school district has VB6 enterprise, 3d studio max, all the adobe programs and a ton of other stuff. Its really great. We have 2 vb courses and a C++ course. All of which are....ok. The second vb course is a little harder, but it's all mostly just an introduction to using the different controls in different "projects" The class is way below my level, but at least its there and its giving me a sweet grade for my average. My only problem is that my programming teacher isn't quite qualified for teaching the class...in my opinion anyway. He gives us stupid worksheets for each new control we learn and we have to look up how to use them in the help index, so he really doesn't teach too much which is hurting a lot of my friends who are just starting. Anyway, maybe we'll get a qualified teacher one of these days. who knows.

Jake

[CarlosTheJackal]

Wow...so many fellow teenagers out there! Im 15 (for about 2 months more) started @ 14 with QBasic Then Html then VB...Now im pretty proficient in Vb, html/dhtml/css/all the other web related buzz technologies ,i also know some perl (as you can see i love computers and spend all the time im not with friends on them...who needs to do homework anyway? ) Now im tackling VC++ Pretty rough but cool anyway ...
I really wish my school offered some decent computer classes ,it only offers keyboarding and a 1 semester QBasic class (i guess thats what i get for living in Cape Girardeau,MO (about 2 hrs away from st. louis)) In my opinion this forum is truly a gift from the heavens, and it's wonderfull to see intelligent ppl from all over the world getting together and helping each other =) I cant wait till visual studio 7...

Thnx For Your Time and Long Live Computers!
CarlosTheJackal

[SYAlam]

I'm up for some projects...anyone got ideas?

[Nitro]

To Sam Finch!

You have helped me a couple times with API. All this time, I thought you are alot older because of your vast knowledge. I must commend you for such talent at a young age.

You will be an excellent programmer by the time you hit 24 if you continue at this pace.

Thanks!

[Sam Finch]

Unfortunatly, my knowledge is confined to the API, I'm not too good with databases and Web aplications and there's a lot of gap's in my knowledge but thanks for the complement.

[Nitro]

I have experience with database - both ADO coding, ADO controls, Data Environment, and DAO. I am average and I know many out there are extremely good. The best way to pick up on database is using Access. Don't get too comfortable in it, because you will not be able to migrate over to Sybase or Microsoft SQL.

If you have any questions on database, you can contact me at [email protected].

[Sam Finch]

I've had some experience with DAO and SQL but the reason I don't know much about them is that I have no call to use them, I'm planning on getting a job so that might help.