Advice on what to do to turn my VB6 app into a Web based App

[aztrix]

Hi All,

Im after some advice in regards to turning my (VB6) Business Software into web based application.

Basically this is database driven software that businesses use to manage employees, assets etc.

it is currently built in VB6 using sql queries to return data from Ms Access. But now i want to build it web based and im not sure where to start or what languages to use. i was thinking along the lines of MySQL and PHP????

I would need to be able to have companies register so they could access thier information.

I appreciate you advice.

[baja_yu]

Maybe look into ASP, since it runs VBScript that is very similar to VB classic.

[dilettante]

The main argument in favor of PHP/MySQL is that they can be run under Apache on Linux. The main argument in favor of that is that there is free and cheap hosting available, which makes it a hobby haven.

Setting aside the (vanishingly) small difference in cost of Windows vs. LAMP hosting, you have bigger issues of reliability, scalability, security, and your liability to consider when you move from monolithic or client-server architecture to Web based applications. The old way the customer has to supply hardware, power, environmental control, backups, security, etc. The Web way you now become the "landlord" with much greater responsibility and culpability.


It looks like a "sucker's game" to me.

Only the big guys have the resources and the legal horsepower to make "hosted applications" work for critical services. The Web-based model is better suited to applications where "as available" is a viable support level, and where little if any proprietary or protected information is involved.


Managing employees and assets? Have you even thought about talking to your business attorney or a surety bondsman about this yet? Can you imagine what insurance and bonding is going to cost you?

[dilettante]

Oh, by the way...

Most of those concerns go away if you mean to create a Web version of your application that your customers are expected to host and administer themselves.

Then the issues are mostly technical, aside from your usual liabilities when providing business software.

[RhinoBull]

Look at ASP.Net with VB as programming language since you're familiar with VB syntax.
Database could be MS SQL Express.

[dilettante]

Look at ASP.Net with VB as programming language since you're familiar with VB syntax.
Database could be MS SQL Express.

Probably decent advice. Very little of your existing code will be reusable as a Web application anyway unless you had written it with such a migrartion in mind. Web activity tends toward stateless transactional flow as opposed to a desktop application's stateful interactive flow. You usually need to separate the UI from the business logic more, since it can be helpful to duplicate activities like simple data validation (controls filled in, values within valid ranges, etc.) at the client (browser) as well as at the server.

Duplication is necessary because you can never trust input from the browser. The user may have disabled scripting, or may be spoofing you with a Web-scraping program.


ASP.Net is something I've done very little of, but it offers some things to make this process easier than when using conventional ASP/PHP. The idea was based on VB6's WebClass project type, so you might look at that for a preview. However ASP.Net has evolved considerably since it first arrived too.

[RhinoBull]

ASP.Net is considerably better way to develop web based apps. Here are just a few high level advantages:
- it is compiled (asp classic was interpreted)
- it supports multiple programming languages like VB, C#, etc and asp classic was heavily based on vbscript
- it is event driven so debugging is a breeze
- it supports ado.net so database programming is much more flexible
- it also has relatively rich gui (controls) selection

[aztrix]

Thanks for your comments. I shall have a look at ASP and ASP.net for this project.

[JuggaloBrotha]

I wouldn't bother with asp as it's just vb6 with a couple of web ability thrown in and seeing as vb6 is fading out, might as well not bother with it at this point. You should learn PHP long before asp.

I also program in asp.net, it's a very nice technology to program on. If PHP was half as good as asp.net I'd learn it.

[RhinoBull]

I wouldn't bother with asp as it's just vb6 with a couple of web ability..it.

It's not even that advanced - asp.classic is based on vbscript (subset of vba).

I also program in asp.net, it's a very nice technology to program on. If PHP was half as good as asp.net I'd learn it.

Although PHP is not as robust as ASP.Net it still is very popular and solid web development tool so alot of people would disagree with your statement.
Btw, I'd still recommend you learn it - nothing to loose and much to gain.

[JuggaloBrotha]

It's not even that advanced - asp.classic is based on vbscript (subset of vba).

Right, vbscript is a stripped down version of vb6 (unless you're talking about vbscript in win95, that's a stripped down version of vb5). So asp is just vb6 with some web abilities thrown in.

Although PHP is not as robust as ASP.Net it still is very popular and solid web development tool so alot of people would disagree with your statement.
Btw, I'd still recommend you learn it - nothing to loose and much to gain.

I know it's one of the top 2 languages for web development, the language itself is fine (a couple of w-t-f's here and there, but any language that's been around for 10 years starts to get those) it's just the environment and the severe lack of any decent development tools. There's basically no way to debug your code as it runs, you have to throw things up on the page as you go then remember to remove it all before pushing it out. Nothing's even close to strongly typed, which is a huge problem.

I do know a little PHP, but not much. For my Bach degree I've got 2 PHP based classes coming up, which I am looking forward to.

[RhinoBull]

..., the language [php] itself is fine (a couple of w-t-f's here and there, but any language that's been around for 10 years starts to get those)...

So if I follow your logic ASP.Net should be the next "victim" - it's basically 10 years old...

... it's just the environment and the severe lack of any decent development tools. There's basically no way to debug your code as it runs, you have to throw things up on the page as you go then remember to remove it all before pushing it out...

There are plenty of nice tools out there so have a look at these:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-ide/index.html

[JuggaloBrotha]

So if I follow your logic ASP.Net should be the next "victim" - it's basically 10 years old...

Not quite because MS stopped development of .Net 1.0 back in 2004 (so it only made it 2 years), they stopped .Net 1.1 in 2005 (again only made it 2 years) and .Net 2.0 is only enhanced to support the latest FW stacked on top so they aren't adding classes or namespaces really, so once could say it had a 2 year run as well, 3.0 had a 1 yr run, 3.5 had a 2 year run and now 4.0 was just released here in 2010, so it's got 10 years to go, but my guess is that it's going to have a 2, maybe 3 yr run then they'll stop enhancing it cause of the next FW.

Since vb7, the .Net languages themselves have remained constant, language wise anything done in vb7 is still the same in vb10, granted there's more you can do now but it's all still consistent.

.Net seems to be the one platform lately that may not fall into the full of w-t-f-ness that vb6, java, python seem to have fallen into.

There are plenty of nice tools out there so have a look at these:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/op...ide/index.html

I do have those 2 classes coming up, I'll definitely check that out here.

[RhinoBull]

It's interesting [to say the least] how you count age: Asp.Net (ASP+ as it was called back then) was introduced by Mark Anders on May 2, 2000 (beta) at the ASP Connections conference in Phoenix, Arizona so it's celebrating its 10th aniversary.

[aztrix]

ok so i have tried to have a look at ASP.net but i have no idea what im doing. i have Visual Studio 2003 but i cant get a VB ASP.net application going because it simple returns an error "No web server was detected at this url" etc can you advise me on how to start from scratch?

also where does Windows Presentation Foundation fit in to everything?

and would i be better off running SQL Server for the database? i have had a look at MySQL and its all command prompt based. I dont mind this at all, its just that i have some extremely complex queries and relationships in the existing MS Access database that i would have to replicate and im not looking forward to doing it with commands

so i guess im asking a lot, i am researching what my options are but i thought you guys are the best thing as experience in real life problem solving can be better than just reading a promotional piece.

Thanks

[JuggaloBrotha]

ok so i have tried to have a look at ASP.net but i have no idea what im doing. i have Visual Studio 2003 but i cant get a VB ASP.net application going because it simple returns an error "No web server was detected at this url" etc can you advise me on how to start from scratch?

also where does Windows Presentation Foundation fit in to everything?

and would i be better off running SQL Server for the database? i have had a look at MySQL and its all command prompt based. I dont mind this at all, its just that i have some extremely complex queries and relationships in the existing MS Access database that i would have to replicate and im not looking forward to doing it with commands

so i guess im asking a lot, i am researching what my options are but i thought you guys are the best thing as experience in real life problem solving can be better than just reading a promotional piece.

Thanks

When you click the run button in the toolbar, the virtual iis server is started (if it's not already) and a webbrowser opens and you're able to view the site you're developing.

WPF is a replacement to WinForms programming. It's editor uses a markup language called xaml, which (to me) makes desktop programming web based (for UI design). VS 2003 can't do WPF apps anyways.

Speaking of VS 2003, I would highly recommend you download VB 2010 Express. It can do Asp.net, WPF and a whole lot more types of projects than VS 2003. The Express Editions are all free: http://www.microsoft.com/express/Downloads/

As for databases, you can use pretty much any database you want, I've used Access, Sql Server, MySql and I tried Oracle (I had a hard time connecting to it in .Net, I eventually switched the app to Sql Server).