Priorities in case of an accident

[honeybee]

On another forum I posted a few personal experiences of mine, as well as read through some of others, of the vehicle running over a stray dog. With the high number of stray dogs and the low amount of intelligence they show in public places, it often becomes impossible to avoid these strays altogether and you aren't left with much choice than either to run over it or risk a serious accident.

There are some members who are upset over any vehicle running over stray dogs and are crying bloody murder at these people as if these people have some hidden agenda of running over each and every stray dog they can find.

I have personally been caught in such a situation three times, where the stray doesn't move out of your path, you can't take evasive action as the neighbouring lanes are occupied by other vehicles and you can't slow down quickly for fear of a rear-end collision. In all these situations I have had to run over the strays, but I have tried to be as slow as was permissible under the circumstances. The slowness was more to avoid any serious damage to my car than any love to the stray dogs, let me be honest.

However that poses a serious question: When you see an accident with another vehicle or live being imminent, whom should you try to save? Of course the ideal situation would be you avoid the accident altogether or manage to prevent harm to everyone involved, but practically the situation is mostly less than ideal. So here's a question I want to ask:

You have just left a red light, you are driving at around 60kmph, other vehicles are hot on your tail to catch up. You are in the middle lane, and both the other lanes are occupied by vehicles trying to overtake you. And there are a few right behind you, waiting for you to yield them the way. There's a curve ahead in the road. You take the curve and then see a stray dog standing right in the path of your car. The distance is too short to gradually brake to a halt, vehicles in both neighbouring lanes are right at your heels, so you cannot change the lanes without crashing into either one of them. And if you brake hard, a rear-end collision is guaranteed. As soon as you spot the stray, you honk, flash your lights, but it simply doesn't pay attention to you, nor does it get out of the way. What do you do?

My priorities in such a scenario would be pretty well defined:

1. Protect the occupants of my car, myself and my car first and foremost
2. If I can achieve the primary objective, then think of saving the stray.

If both are not possible, I am going to forego objective #2 above so I can meet objective #1.

Some would say the choice between a stray and a human being is much simpler. But now comes the killer. What if it were a human being? Someone suddenly stumbled into your car's path, you have tried honking and flashing but the person doesn't or can't move out of the way. You know the only alternative to hitting the person is to risk a serious accident that will most certainly injure you or your passengers. What do you do?

There have been cases here where a motorist tried to save a pedestrian (when the pedestrian was clearly at fault), and died himself in the process. Also this question is in context of the Indian roads and driving conditions.

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[techgnome]

My Two Cents:
Dogs aren't a problem out here... but other wildlife are... cats, badgers, squirrels and deer. Priority 1 should foremost and always be self and vehicle occupants. Secondary to that, the animal about to be hit. I read somewhere that most people's reaction is to attempt at swerving to avoid the animal. Statistically, that is the worse thing to do. You are are actually better off hitting the animal. Swerving tends to lead to sliding, spinouts and in some cases, flipping the car.

Clearly in your case, swerving is out of the question. I think what you're experiencing is a cultural difference. I know that if a dog were to get hit in my neighborhood, people would be out in full force, calling cops, writting down plate numbers and such... Mainly because odds are it was sombody's pet that had gotten out, and nearly all of us has had our dog get out at some point. However, there are some parrts of the world, where dogs are as common as rats in others. And more often than not, the dog is ferral. And in those places, a dog getting hit invokes about as much emotion as when one our ferral cats or a squirrel get hit.

Anyways, I don't think there's a problem with the priorities as laid out, regardless of context. Just goes to show, it's a dangerous world out there.

-tg

[si_the_geek]

If that situation happened in the UK you wouldn't really have a choice - it is illegal to risk the safety of other road users for the sake of an animal.

Of course you would try to minimise the damage (slow down as much as is safe given the distance to the car behind, etc), but if the animal wont move out of the way it is going to be hit.

[Blakk_Majik]

I'll be brutally honest here.

If someone or something is standing in the middle of traffic, I have no obligation to protect them/it. I say let natural selection take it's course.

With that said, I would never intentionally run over or hit any animal/human, but the safety of myself, any occupants in my vehicle, and my vehicle are first and foremost.

It's important to note, however, that in the US, most laws are worded in such a way that pretty much any pedestrian (I'm assuming human being) ALWAYS has the right of way, even if they just jump out in front of you. Furthermore, even if you can prove you exercised all proper caution to avoid injury/death to the pedestrian, you can STILL be sued for wrongful death in civil courts. So, you might not go to jail, but there's still a chance you'll have to cough up some dough.

[JuggaloBrotha]

If the animal is small enough, I'll just hit it instead of swerving, but out where I live the animals that cross the streets are big enough to where if you do hit it, you'll probably either flip the car or squish the engine into your lap depending on the vehicle, so swerving is overall safer and a much less amount of damage to the vehicle...

Oh and I run over squirrels without even thinking/flinching, but it's the raccoons I aim for, I try to squish their heads and not hit their body as the body will do damage to the suspension of the vehicle.

[I_Love_My_Vans]

I'll be brutally honest here.

Well you're either not being honest or you're being an arse.

Small animal = avoid if possible, but don't but anyone in danger
Medium animal = more aggressive avoidance required, but again don't put anyone in danger
Large animal = soil yourself, this now posses a very big risk to driver + occupants so if heavy braking is required than so be it, even if a rear end is inevitable.
Human being = same really, whiplash verses having to pick some dead person up off the road suites me fine.

Of course if I'm on my motorbike and hit a badger chances are I'm going to be flying superman style anyway... the bike is pretty good at changing direction, small enough to fit through available gaps etc.

[abhijit]

If the animal is small enough, I'll just hit it instead of swerving, but out where I live the animals that cross the streets are big enough to where if you do hit it, you'll probably either flip the car or squish the engine into your lap depending on the vehicle, so swerving is overall safer and a much less amount of damage to the vehicle...

Oh and I run over squirrels without even thinking/flinching, but it's the raccoons I aim for, I try to squish their heads and not hit their body as the body will do damage to the suspension of the vehicle.

I guess you're driving a big truck. If you were driving a small car, you wouldn't be trying to hit raccoons.

[Blakk_Majik]

ILMV, I am indeed being honest.

If you wish to call me an arse based on my opinion, that's fine.

[FunkyDexter]

To be honest I find the question to be flawed. If you haven't got time to slow in a controlled manner you also don't have time to rationalise a decision before you make it - you'll just react.

That aside, if I were able to consider my decision before making it I guess I'd brake. Someone hitting me from behind at those sort of speeds is going to, at worst, wreck my car and maybe give me a bit of whiplash - they're not going to kill me if I'm driving anything larger than a 2CV. And all that will be covered by their insurance because it is their responsibility - both legally and morally - to leave enough of a gap to stop safely if I have to hit my anchors. I have more compassion for the merest of moles and dearest of deer than I do for some <insert your expletive of choice here> who chooses to drive 2 foot off my rear bumper.

[schoolbusdriver]

You should drive according to the conditions. If you can't avoid the dog (etc), you're driving beyond your capabilities. (The most commonly used word in insurance claims is "suddenly") There are 5 key rules to safe driving, but most car drivers forget them the instant they pass a driving test.

A couple of years ago, I was taking a leisurely drive through the Peak District (at about 30mph) and spotted some sheep in the road about 1/4 of a mile away. A d******d overtook me (sounding his horn) at about 60mph and didn't slow down. The explosion of glass, metal, plastic and livestock was spectacular.

I was still roaring with laughter as I drove past the d******d (at 10mph) surveying his wreckage.

[honeybee]

To be honest I find the question to be flawed. If you haven't got time to slow in a controlled manner you also don't have time to rationalise a decision before you make it - you'll just react.

That's a good point, but the point makes the case all the more stronger to have the priorities engraved in our minds. If I am next caught in a situation like this and am not able to react on impulse, I may be putting more than one life in danger. And if the priorities are engraved in my mind, it increases my chances of making the right decision impulsively. Training my reactions, sort of.

As I said in my first post, it's relatively easy to make a decision for something like a dog. But when you have a human being in this situation, it becomes very critical that you have the priorities set right.

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[JuggaloBrotha]

I guess you're driving a big truck. If you were driving a small car, you wouldn't be trying to hit raccoons.

Actually I drive a Buick LeSabre (mid sized car)

[NickThissen]

I agree that there isn't really a question here. If you don't have time to brake safely, you don't have time to think and rationalize either. Most probably, you will brake and risk getting rammed from behind.

I also think that getting hit from behind by another car doesn't necessarily have to end badly. Even if you step on the brakes as hard as you can, you won't stop instantly, you will probably still be moving quite fast when the other car hits you (and he will hopefully be braking too), so in many cases the impact could be very small. Of course you can get unlucky and get hit at full speed, but that can happen in almost any situation where you stop...

However, you have to think about other types of vehicles too! If there's a truck behind you, things will probably end a lot worse for you (and most probably, the animal will get hit even if you do try to brake, when the truck hits you and pushes you ahead). If there's a motorcycle behind you, things could end really badly for the other driver too!
I've actually seen something like that happen, and go wrong. There was a motorcycle driving behind a car, both at around 50 kmph, when the car suddenly stepped on the brakes for a cat in the middle of the road. The motorcycle had no time to react and crashed into the back of the car, flying over the car and landing on the ground in front of it. Amazingly he was OK except for some bruises, but it could have been very ugly...

[MartinLiss]

My priority was beer. When I was in college the school got me a job one summer working for Bechtel Engineering on a project of theirs (if you're interested see the story about John McCain and The rape of Black Mesa) on the Navajo Indian reservation in the four corners area of Arizona. At that time since it was not a very populated place, Arizona had no speed limit. Given that we were just a bunch of lonely guys we often went on beer runs (alcohol is illegal on the reservation but that's another story) and since we were young and immortal we would drive down the highway "pedal to the metal". Did I mention it was open range? Twice cars hit livestock and because cars made then were made of heavy-gauge steel rather than the "tin" and plastic of modern cars, no one got seriously hurt (except the cattle), and both times, and this is a coincidence I'm sure, the animals were prize steers.

[penagate]

I have personally been caught in such a situation three times, where the stray doesn't move out of your path, you can't take evasive action as the neighbouring lanes are occupied by other vehicles and you can't slow down quickly for fear of a rear-end collision.

I'm glad you don't drive on the same roads as me.

You shouldn't be going so fast around a blind corner that you can't stop for the dog and you shouldn't be driving wedged between other cars so that you can't take evasive action.

You were talking about the imporance of driving defensively in this thread but it seems like you don't or can't practice what you preach.

[BackWoodsCoder]

I do everything I possibly can to avoid domesticated animals, but if a rabbit or squirrel darts out in front of my car I'll squish it without thinking twice. It's best to just drive defensively and always leave yourself an escape route. I grew up in an area with a super heavy deer population, it was not uncommon to see most traffic flowing at 25 mph on a 45-55 mph road at night due to the deer. So I'm used to having to drive with my head on a swivel.

I think someone said it already, but in most cases as long as the animal isn't as tall as your windows, you're much better off hitting the damn thing then trying to take evasive maneuvers. But if you're driving carefully in the first place it shouldn't even be an issue.

[GaryMazzone]

We did some thing similar at INEL back in the mid 70's. I was working at the Navy nuc prototype there and we would go out after swing shift occasionally. Hit many a jackrabbit at night on that road heading for a beer. Spent time in the parking lot after with a beer in hand picking pieces of rabbit out of the grill and engine compartments.

[honeybee]

I'm glad you don't drive on the same roads as me.

You shouldn't be going so fast around a blind corner that you can't stop for the dog and you shouldn't be driving wedged between other cars so that you can't take evasive action.

You were talking about the imporance of driving defensively in this thread but it seems like you don't or can't practice what you preach.

I mentioned that I anticipate what I might find on the next curve when potential hazards are likely to come my way. So when I am driving on a highway I don't expect a stray to be "standing" in the middle of the road as if meditating. Just for the record, I have a habit of stopping at red lights in the middle of the night, where drivers jump the signals in broad daylight. I have often been ridiculed about it by my passengers too, but I don't feel ashamed. And if you want to avoid getting sandwiched between vehicles in adjacent lanes, your options would very much be limited to not driving at all. I am sorry, but that's the driving scene in India.

I never said I am a perfect driver, I have been able to avoid accidents (except those occasions of hitting dogs that refused to move out of the way), but I don't pride myself on it. However I am sure if I didn't practice what I preached, I wouldn't be here to post.

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