How to simulate complex network

[softwareguy74]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum, and if it isn't please move it.

I'm developing a client server .NET application which is designed to handle complex distributed network configurations.

As a one man shop, I don't have access to these actual resources for testing, but I'd like to somehow simulate this in a virtual environment somehow. So that I can simulate different network scenarios to make sure my app runs okay in these environments, complete with one or more domain controllers providing Windows user accounts, for example \\Corp1, \\Corp2, each having their own users, etc. It would also be nice to somehow simulate network latency on some of the virtual machines.

Can I use Microsoft Virtual PC for something like this? Any feedback/guidance on this topic would be very much appreciated.

[Nightwalker83]

I use vmware for testing! Although, I haven't tried getting one virtual operating system to talk to another one but I think all you would need in that case is to make sure the virtual machine network settings are correct.

[tr333]

Download VMWare Server (it's free!) and set up Host networking for the virtual machines.

http://www.petri.co.il/virtual_creat...lab_vmware.htm

EDIT: This might also be possible with VMWare Player but I've never tried.

[DeanMc]

I use virtual pc. I have found that I have an environment for everything these days and the only thing I use the PC for is to switch and maintain environments. I suppose an beta with a few trusted friends/employees would be a good option too as you would get closer to the actual environment the app will live in!

[gep13]

Hey,

There used to be a big gap in the virtualization world between VMWare and Microsoft offerings. This gap is no longer as big as it was, and you can easily set up environments with either product. What it comes down to is what sort of environment are you wanting to create.

If you need to take multiple snapshots of your VM's, in order to test different conditions, and roll back to different places, then VMWare Server might not be the best bet for you, as this only allows one snapshot. In which case, you might want to think about ESXi. This is also free, and it is a stripped down version of VMWare's ESX Server (now I believe called VSphere). This has a very limited set of hardware that it is supported on, but you can find a list on the VMWare Website.

As for communicating between VM's, this is definitely possible. We actually connect a suite of VM's to a domain, and communicate between them as though they were "real" machines. So you can set up very complicated environments.

One thing I should say, although VM's are great, they are essentially "real" machines, so you should really make sure that you have appropriate licences to cover all the software that is installed on them.

Gary

[softwareguy74]

Hey,

There used to be a big gap in the virtualization world between VMWare and Microsoft offerings. This gap is no longer as big as it was, and you can easily set up environments with either product. What it comes down to is what sort of environment are you wanting to create.

If you need to take multiple snapshots of your VM's, in order to test different conditions, and roll back to different places, then VMWare Server might not be the best bet for you, as this only allows one snapshot. In which case, you might want to think about ESXi. This is also free, and it is a stripped down version of VMWare's ESX Server (now I believe called VSphere). This has a very limited set of hardware that it is supported on, but you can find a list on the VMWare Website.

As for communicating between VM's, this is definitely possible. We actually connect a suite of VM's to a domain, and communicate between them as though they were "real" machines. So you can set up very complicated environments.

One thing I should say, although VM's are great, they are essentially "real" machines, so you should really make sure that you have appropriate licences to cover all the software that is installed on them.

Gary

Good advice guys, thanks! As to the domain controller that you mention, is that too a virtual machine? So VMWare is free? I know Virtual PC is too, but I didn't know VMWare was. I know VMWare is the defacto standard so maybe it's good I get experience with this and not mess with Virtual PC??

[gep13]

Hey,

In our case, the Domain Controller is a physical machine, but equally, it could be a VM.

Yes, some products within the VMWare suite are free.

VMWare Player - Free
VMWare Server - Free - needs to be registered
VMWare WorkStation - Not free
VMWare ESXi Server - Free - needs to be registered - limited set of hardware it works on
VMWare ESX Server (VSphere) - Start saving your pennies, this isn't cheap

We have been dabbling with VMWare for the a couple years now, and so far, it has stood up to everything that we have thrown at it. We are actually now thinking about implementing some Microsoft Hyper-V servers. This is due to the fact that as a Gold Partner, we get some licenses for free, so we are thinking about using them.

Gary

[penagate]

If you have the dough, get yourself an MSDN subscription. It makes managing licences much easier.

[penagate]

Also, in my experience with virtual machines, the GUI is the most expensive part. You will find that the most important trick is to manage resource allocation effectively. If your application can be run in command-line mode, you might want to investigate running something like Windows Server Core rather than a full GUI environment on each virtual machine.

In terms of resources, the cheapest enviromment you can run is a minimal installation of Linux. The "leanest" modern Windows client environment is XP. I don't have experience with Server Core, but ostensibly that ought to be closer to a Linux.

[gep13]

Hey,

You can run VMWare Server on a Linux machine. Or, ESXi, which is free, is a linux based environment.

Gary

[penagate]

Yes, but I meant the virtualised system rather than the host.

[gep13]

Ah, sorry, I misread your post

[softwareguy74]

Is there a difference between the VMWare Workstation and Server? Seems the Server is free, but the Workstation is not. Which one do I really need, or do they do the same thing?

[gep13]

Hey,

They perform a very similar function, however, one of the main differences is that VMWare Workstation allows you to create a full snapshot hierarchy so that you can take multiple snapshots of your VM and revert back to any point in time. With VMWare Server, you can only take one snapshot. Depending on what you are doing, this isn't a problem.

The other main difference is that VMWare Workstation is a thick client application, where as, VMWare Server is administered through a web interface.

Gary

[softwareguy74]

I like the snapshot idea so that I can make multiple configurations on the same vm, as opposed to making multiple vm's representing different configurations. I might end up just purchasing the workstation as it is relatively cheap anyways.

[softwareguy74]

What about Sun's VirtualBox? Anyone have experience with this? Looks pretty capable, provides snapshots and is free.

[gep13]

Nope, can't say I have played with that one.

How much is workstation nowadays, I haven't looked for a while.

Gary

[penagate]

What about Sun's VirtualBox? Anyone have experience with this? Looks pretty capable, provides snapshots and is free.

I tried it about a year ago on a Fedora host. Had trouble creating a display under X11. Didn't get much further than that. Perhaps it's better now.

[gep13]

dbassettt74,

It will be interesting to hear about how you get on with VirtualBox. I am going to stick with VMWare for just now as I have no reason to need to switch, but always nice to keep options open.

Gary

[softwareguy74]

Seems to have all the features of VMWare, most notably, snapshots which come in real handy. I got it up and running without a hitch and seems work pretty good. I have a Ubuntu Linux vm running on a WinXP host. Although, I'm not (or can't) go much further than that at this point because I need some better iron. I will most likely be purchasing an HP Elite i7 with 9GB ram and 1TB hard drive pretty soon. Then I will go all out on this.

[gep13]

Hey,

Sounds like I might have to give VirtualBox a try at some point.

Glad to hear you got things up and running the way you want it, and good luck with the new rig!! Very jealous

Gary