[serious] Car trouble: What to check next?

[abhijit]

This is a mystery to me. Yesterday after the snow storm, I was able to drive my car all over the town. Today, it won't start.

The electronics are working, since I am able to use the remote keypad to lock and unlock the door. I am also able to get the lights switched on and off.
The radio works.

When I turn the key after putting it in the ignition, nothing happens. No sounds, no lights, nothing.

Any clues?

[JuggaloBrotha]

Did snow get into the engine compartment? You might want to check around the spark plugs on the engine block.

I had a car where during a snow storm, snow had gotten into the engine compartment and was shorting the spark plugs so the engine wouldn't start.

[System_Error]

I bet its the battery. The cold weather can completely kill a battery that's near the end of its life.

I've been in the same exact situation before. I drove my car around fine one day, and then the next day it was really cold and my car wouldn't even attempt to start.

[abhijit]

Hey guys,
Thanks for your suggestions. I went for a walk and when I came back, the car started mysteriously. However I did end up missing a hike, since it didn't start when I wanted it to.

I will check under the hood for snow.

J.B,
If there's shorting, wouldn't I hear something each time I turned the key?

[techgnome]

I'd go with the battery too... it doesn't take much for the remote to unlock the car... but it takes quite a bit to turn over the car. That's why when I do buy a new battery, I make sure I don't skimp on a cheap one, and it's got plenty of Cold Crank Amps.

-tg

[EntityX]

You could keep your battery inside where it's warmer and then take it out with you and put it in the car when you need to go somewhere but of course having a good battery with lots of cold crank amps is less of a hassle.

[I_Love_My_Vans]

+1 on the battery...

But I am intrigued as to how anyone can think snow under the bonnet could possibly short a spark plug... it's covered by the HT lead?

My motorbike (with exposed spark plugs / HT leads) was covered in a good few inches of snow (and ice) for a week solid and the thing started up beautifully.

No, it's probably the battery...

[Blakk_Majik]

+1 on the battery.

I had the exact same problem just a few weeks ago when we had a bad ice/snow storm up here. Car started fine one day, then wouldn't do anything the next day.

Went to get a new battery, put it in, no problems.

[honeybee]

I bet its the battery. The cold weather can completely kill a battery that's near the end of its life.

I've been in the same exact situation before. I drove my car around fine one day, and then the next day it was really cold and my car wouldn't even attempt to start.

If he can unlock the car through the remote, operate the lights and the radio, isn't the battery fine?

When I had the battery die on me, on ignition, there was a stuttering sound from the engine and the engine did not start. No lights, warnings, indicators, radio or alarm works when the battery is dead.

.

[Hack]

If he can unlock the car through the remote, operate the lights and the radio, isn't the battery fine?.

Not necessarily...one more vote for the battery (or at least having its charge checked.)

[Blakk_Majik]

If he can unlock the car through the remote, operate the lights and the radio, isn't the battery fine?

When I had the battery die on me, on ignition, there was a stuttering sound from the engine and the engine did not start. No lights, warnings, indicators, radio or alarm works when the battery is dead.

.

Incorrect.

If the car is stuttering (trying to turn over), but no other electronics work, it is possible that your battery is not the problem. Could be another electrical piece such as the starter or alternator.

As techgnome pointed out, tasks such as unlocking the doors, alarms, etc. use a small fraction of the power that is required to actually get the engine going.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Had it been the plugs, the car would have cranked, as the starter motor has nothing to do with the plugs. The one thing that argues against the battery is that the lights worked. Those other circuits draw minimal power, but headlights draw a fair amount. However, if this was during the day, the lights may have been very dim and you wouldn't have noticed.

I would also vote for just replacing the battery, especially if it is several years old. Even if you can charge it back up, you have been given warning, and it will never get better, only worse. You might go for a couple years without this happening again, or it could start being a regular occurence. As an interim measure, jumpstarting the car should get you going on any day when it doesn't start.

[abhijit]

Had it been the plugs, the car would have cranked, as the starter motor has nothing to do with the plugs. The one thing that argues against the battery is that the lights worked. Those other circuits draw minimal power, but headlights draw a fair amount. However, if this was during the day, the lights may have been very dim and you wouldn't have noticed.

I would also vote for just replacing the battery, especially if it is several years old. Even if you can charge it back up, you have been given warning, and it will never get better, only worse. You might go for a couple years without this happening again, or it could start being a regular occurence. As an interim measure, jumpstarting the car should get you going on any day when it doesn't start.

Shaggy,
This was during the day, so I didn't notice the beam of light.

The car is a 2004 Saturn, that I purchased in 2007. The battery check is due at 50 K miles and there are 45,500 miles on it.

I hope that it's not something to do with the starter motor.
That's a thing that worries me, since I cannot replace the starter on my own.

[GaryMazzone]

If it is the orginial battery my vote is replace it now, age fopr battery not milage.

[Shaggy Hiker]

If the problem never happens again, then...well, I guess it doesn't matter.

A starter is the next place to look. However, you can think of it like this: A new batter will cost you $. If you never have another problem, you will know that either A) It was the battery, or 2) You don't know what it was. If you can borrow a battery, you will save the $, but you can never be certain that the problem was the battery or just chance that it didn't happen while you had the other battery(assuming you have to return the battery).

On the other hand, a starter will cost you $$, and you will know no more than you would if you just bought a battery. Therefore, if you are just going to throw some money at the problem, the battery is the place to start.

The other alternative is getting the battery tested, but that is going to cost $, as well, and if the price is roughly the same as the battery, you stand to spend 2x$ if the test finds that the battery is bad, and $ even if the test finds the battery is good.

From all that, I would follow these steps:

1) Ask a bunch of programmers for car repair advice.
2) Buy a new battery.

After all, some of those programmers know more than just code. For instance, GaryMazzone is quite correct that a battery is all about age and not the distance it has been carted around.

[homer13j]

The car is a 2004 Saturn, that I purchased in 2007.

Well, I certainly hope you didn't pay very much for it...

[System_Error]

The battery check is due at 50 K miles and there are 45,500 miles on it.

I don't think the mileage would matter if the car is an '04. That's a long time.

By the way, I find it impressive you only have 45k miles on that car. I have 70k on my '05 honda

[abhijit]

Well, I certainly hope you didn't pay very much for it...

I paid the kbb value for it. The dealer threw in an extended warranty on the engine, at a discount.

I don't think the mileage would matter if the car is an '04. That's a long time.

By the way, I find it impressive you only have 45k miles on that car. I have 70k on my '05 honda

Yeah, but when I got in 2007, it had 12 K miles on it. Also my commute to work is 8 miles one way.

[pcuser]

This is almost as good as someone posting on an automotive support forum about how their pc has borked and is asking for suggestions on how to fix it.

I think that blindly replacing parts is about as sensible as formatting your hard drive without a backup because a program didn't work as expected.

Get your voltmeter out and do some basic troubleshooting. Does your 12 volt battery actually have 12+ volts? If not then it can be for several reasons, here's a few:

1. Bad Battery
2. Bad ground/cable/connection
3. Bad alternator

To see if you have a bad ground, check that you have 12+ volts at the battery terminals. Next, touch the positive lead from your voltmeter to the positive terminal on your battery and touch the negative lead from your voltmeter to the chassis of your car. If it's less than the reading you got directly from the battery terminal then you most likely have a bad ground/cable/connection.

To see if you have a bad alternator, have someone jumpstart you and make sure it's charging ~13.5 volts with the car running, if it isn't then you most likely have an alternator problem.

---

Extreme conditions will usually show you what needs attention, even if it seems to clear up or get better when conditions get better

I'm no expert but based on the information you've given, it sounds like the bendix isn't even attemting to shoot out to engage the starter in extreme conditions. This sounds like a weak starter to me...

[honeybee]

Shaggy,
This was during the day, so I didn't notice the beam of light.

The car is a 2004 Saturn, that I purchased in 2007. The battery check is due at 50 K miles and there are 45,500 miles on it.

I hope that it's not something to do with the starter motor.
That's a thing that worries me, since I cannot replace the starter on my own.

I second the opinions of shaggy hiker and system_error. If you are going to pay to get the problem fixed, the battery would be the best place to start, not the starter motor. The battery usually has a shorter life expectancy than the starter motor.

I don't know the scene in the US, but over here in India, a new battery costs a little above Rs. 2000, while charging up a battery costs Rs. 150/-. So getting the existing battery recharged is relatively cheaper. Also during recharging the guys also check the cells of the battery for specific gravity and let you know if any of the cells have gone bad (in which case you should replace the battery). I had my car battery die on me due to a faulty brake switch that left the brake light on. This happened twice on consecutive days. Including the breakdown charges (for calling the garage's guys to jumpstart my car) and battery charging, I paid Rs. 200/- Still about 10% of a new battery.

Battery life here is approximately two years or three years if you manage to stretch it. A starter motor is something that should last several years.

Edit: I think you can try out the steps given by pcuser. They should help you isolate the problem as far as the battery/alternator are concerned. My only concern would be are you able to do all this stuff on your own, or will you have to hire a mechanic to do it for you. I am assuming hiring a mechanic in the US would be costly, but if you are trying to do it on your ownn, be sure you know which terminals to connect to which ones and how to jumpstart the vehicle. If done wrong, you would end up with a dead vehicle than a dead battery.

.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Oddly, I had a problem similar to this just the other day. I came out of a store and the car wouldn't start. All the electric would work, but the car didn't crank. Better yet, I knew it wasn't the battery. This made me realize that there is a different alternative that wasn't explored. Modern cars have a variety of safety features that prevent you from starting cars in incorrect states. In my case, it was almost certainly the switch that prevents the car from starting when it is not in park, but that would only apply to an automatic.

The battery seems likely, but it is not the only possibility.

[abhijit]

I haven't had that problem since.
I will change the battery once I am done with another 5 K miles.

[Shaggy Hiker]

My point is that I am backing away from the battery being the problem. It certainly could be, but there are other options. It would be annoying to fix the wrong problem.

[I_Love_My_Vans]

On my old problematic motorcycle I had an ignition problem, possibly battery but also possibly several safety switches, for example the engine would not fire if:

1) Gear != neutral && side stand == down
2) Kill switch == true

When I had a problem with my ignition I referred to the wiring guide (usually found in a Haynes manual, if you have them in the states), found all components that check the state of each of the components mentioned above and checked them with a continuity tester (just checks to make sure the circuit opened / closed when the safety device changes state).

Point in case, I finally found out I had a faulty kill switch, most probably due to the excessive amount of pressure washing without treating for corrosion I did to it.

So if you put a new battery in there (and I recommend you do soon) and your problem persists, do as I did above.

ILMV

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Have you tried Rebooting it ?

[I_Love_My_Vans]

Have you tried Rebooting it ?

What a stupid thing to say!!!













Have you rebooted it?