Peace prize

[zaza]

So the Nobel committee awards it to Our Man Barack.

Well deserved, swelling of national pride? Or politically-motivated nonsense?

Try to be objective (yes Homer, I'm talking to you )


Also up for discussion, are the Prizes as a whole still relevant, or do they need overhauling?

[abhijit]

You beat me to it. I was planning to start a thread about this. I wonder, how Bill Clinton feels about this. Bill wanted the peace prize real bad.

[zaza]

And actually managed to bribe the IRA into...I mean, negotiate with and persuade the IRA to accept it in Northern Ireland.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'd say it's a bit early.

On the other hand, I have heard interviews with several recipients in the last couple years, and they all start out with "I have lots of friends who are practical jokers, so when I got a call from the Royal Swedish Academy...."

This tells me that either:

A) You need practical jokers for friends (which means that I'm not so likely, but all my friends are).
B) Whoever gets picked is always surprised.

[abhijit]

The Noble Peace Prize committee thought, by giving Obama the peace prize, they could persuade him to stop the war(s).

[homer13j]

This does not surprise me at all. As far as I'm concerned the Nobel committee lost any and all credibility when they gave the prize to the murderous hatemonger Yassir Arafat in 1993. The so-called Nobel "Peace" Prize is no longer about peace, it's about politics.

And that's about as objective as I can get.

[FunkyDexter]

Should the comittee have picked him? Yes.
Does he deserve it? No.

I think the comittee was right to award it to Obama. They were sending a message that international diplomacy is a better way of solving the worlds problems than sending in the jets and Obama has, undoubtedly, become the icon of that message.

I'm not convinced he deserves it because he's become that icon as a result of personal charisma and his press machine rather than the result of any real work he's done. While he's sending out the right message there are certainly others who've worked harder and accomplished more in the name of peace than Obama has so far. My gut feeling is that he'll go on to do that work and achieve those accomplishments but he hasn't done so yet.

It's interesting to note that Obama seems to be of a similar opinion on this. In his acceptance speech, which I caught a few snippets of on the radio as I drove home, he said something along the lines of "I'm not accepting it for me but I'm accepting it for American Diplomacy".

[demotivater]

So, the nominations were due two weeks into his Presidency. And he wins on what achievements? Campaign promises, well read speeches? This is completely laughable, but also meaningless.

I agree with homerj - the whole deal has absolutely no credibility. If BO had a pair, he'd giggle and refuse to accept it. What a joke.

[homer13j]

Should the comittee have picked him? Yes.
Does he deserve it? No.

I think the comittee was right to award it to Obama. They were sending a message that international diplomacy is a better way of solving the worlds problems than sending in the jets and Obama has, undoubtedly, become the icon of that message.

I'm having trouble following your logic here. How can it be right to award it to someone who doesn't deserve it?

What really bothers me is the number of people who think it is perfectly fine to use the prize as a political tool in order to deliver political smacks to politicians that a bunch of Norwegians don't agree with. The original intent of the prize was not to "send a message" but to reward those who genuinely work for peace and the betterment of mankind.

I will agree that Obama has done nothing to deserve the prize.

Let's take a look at the losers and you can decide for yourselve who you think really deserved it. Note that Sima Samar would have never even had the chance to reach her current status if the Taliban was still in charge:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog...were_passe.asp

Sima Samar, women's rights activist in Afghanistan: "With dogged persistence and at great personal risk, she kept her schools and clinics open in Afghanistan even during the most repressive days of the Taliban regime, whose laws prohibited the education of girls past the age of eight. When the Taliban fell, Samar returned to Kabul and accepted the post of Minister for Women's Affairs."

Ingrid Betancourt: French-Colombian ex-hostage held for six years.

"Dr. Denis Mukwege: Doctor, founder and head of Panzi Hospital in Bukavu, Democratic Republic of Congo. He has dedicated his life to helping Congolese women and girls who are victims of gang rape and brutal sexual violence."

Handicap International and Cluster Munition Coalition: "These organizations are recognized for their consistently serious efforts to clean up cluster bombs, also known as land mines. Innocent civilians are regularly killed worldwide because the unseen bombs explode when stepped upon."

"Hu Jia, a human rights activist and an outspoken critic of the Chinese government, who was sentenced last year to a three-and-a-half-year prison term for 'inciting subversion of state power.'"

"Wei Jingsheng, who spent 17 years in Chinese prisons for urging reforms of China's communist system. He now lives in the United States."

[Shaggy Hiker]

Oh, I dunno. Obama has apparently resurected the World Events forum, and that is looking pretty miraculous these days. Two more, and he could be nominated for saint hood.

[FunkyDexter]

I'm having trouble following your logic here. How can it be right to award it to someone who doesn't deserve it?

Oh, come on, it's really not that difficult to follow and I suspect you choose to not understand it because you don't agree with it rather than being incapable of understanding.

The purpose of the prize is two-fold and neither of these is political:-
1. To reward those who work for peace
2. To promote peace in and of itself
In this case the committee has concentrated on the latter because they feel the that the benefit to world peace of the Obama iconography outweighs the actual work done by any other candidate. So has he actually earned it by any actions he's carried out? No. But is the goal of the prize achieved by awarding it to him? Yes.

[demotivater]

Which one was the committee concentrating on when they gave it to Yasar Arafat?

Again, laughable and incredulous.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

the Nobel committee lost any and all credibility when they gave the prize to the murderous hatemonger Yassir Arafat in 1993

Not that i am exactly a supporter or believe that he should have got the Noble peace prize, but that's a bit one sided statement isn't ? or are Sharon, Netenyahu, Bush Snr & Jnr, Reagan, Thatcher, in fact pretty much most major political figures that have been involved in a wars defending there countries "murderous hatemongers"

Arafat whatever his flaws, was basically fighting for his people, you might dislike his methods but what alternatives did he have ?

Having your country split in half with the bigger half given to some other people, leaving you with not only no proper country but also ruled by those that have been given your land would leave anyone a bit pissed.

[Valleysboy1978]

I'm sorry but the Nobel Peace Prize should be given for actions that an individual has taken to resolve a situation peacefully.
Clinton must be reeling at this after bringing peace to Ireland (after years of bitter wars) yet Obama gets it this soon into his presidency??

Let's be honest though. When was the last time you cared about who won this prize? Perhaps this is why they've given it to Obama. Extra publicity to the prize

[DeanMc]

Clinton didn't bring peace to Ireland. They where still baiting the heads of each other long after he left just not in any way that would have gained international news but the Republicans and the Unionists where still murdering each other brutally, albeit in smaller numbers. The real peace brokers where Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair. As they where the ones who urged both sides to talk to the lay person and quell the idiocy.

[FunkyDexter]

Clinton didn't bring peace to Ireland.

Amen. In addition to Ahern and Blair, I'd also cite John Major for being willing to at least start talking again after Maggie had created such a huge divide in the 80s

[abhijit]

Most of the prizes were won by Americans, this year.

Today I read this article.

Here is a look at this year's winners and their work:

___

_ Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine to Americans Elizabeth H. Blackburn, Carol W. Greider and Jack W. Szostak for discovering how chromosomes protect themselves as cells divide, work that has inspired experimental cancer therapies and may offer insights into aging.

_ Nobel Prize in physics to Americans Charles K. Kao, Willard S. Boyle and George E. Smith. Kao was honored for discovering how to transmit light signals long distance through hair-thin glass fibers. Boyle and Smith received the prize for opening the door to digital cameras by inventing a sensor that turns light into electrical signals.

_ Nobel Prize in chemistry to Americans Venkatraman Ramakrishnan and Thomas Steitz and Israel's Ada Yonath — the first woman to receive it since 1964 — for creating detailed blueprints of ribosomes, the protein-making machinery within cells, research that's being used to develop new antibiotics.

_ Nobel Prize in literature to Germany's Herta Mueller, a Romanian-born writer honored for work that "with the concentration of poetry and the frankness of prose, depicts the landscape of the dispossessed."

_ Nobel Peace Prize to President Barack Obama for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples." The Norwegian Nobel Committee's decision drew praise, derision and plenty of puzzlement.

_ The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences to Americans Elinor Ostrom and Oliver Williamson for their work in economic governance. Ostrom was the first woman to win the prize since it was founded in 1968, and the fifth woman to win a Nobel award this year — a Nobel record.

[DeanMc]

Amen. In addition to Ahern and Blair, I'd also cite John Major for being willing to at least start talking again after Maggie had created such a huge divide in the 80s

I agree, John was the first alright. Its such a shame that Ahern left over a scandal and Blair never found those bombs. It must be a nightmare to have such a lifes work marred!

[Valleysboy1978]

Indeed so, but then that is the way politics works. They are never remembered for all they achieved, only the scandals

[FunkyDexter]

only the scandals

In Major's case, the fact that he liked a good curry

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Not that many of our American friends will get that reference, but a good Curry! are you sure you meant a good curry ??? and not a bloody awful curry

[DeanMc]

dadumdumtish

[abhijit]

In Major's case, the fact that he liked a good curry

Are you referring to food or the Minister?

[DeanMc]

The food of course!

[nemaroller]

Totally undeserved.

Gorbachev was integral in ending a 40-year running cold war between two nuclear superpowers, and Obama goes to work 2 weeks and wins a peace prize for refocusing war efforts to Afghanistan? This just solidifies how bought and sold the Nobel peace prize is.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

What funny about this peace prize award is that it was awarded to an American and the only people complaining about it are Americans !

There was a new report on the other day where they were in various middle eastern countries and people were all fairly happy with the award going to Obama.

It seems your President is more liked and appreciated abroad then at home !

[Valleysboy1978]

In Major's case, the fact that he liked a good curry

Baaaaaahahahaha, nice one!
Gotta be said though...
eeeewwwwwwww

[Shaggy Hiker]

Clinton must be reeling at this after bringing peace to Ireland (after years of bitter wars) yet Obama gets it this soon into his presidency??

Clinton did get a piece prize.

Or maybe I got those words mixed up. In any case, you'd probably have to be drunk to get that (or at least to agree with it), and I'm not.

If the rest of the world sees the very fact of the Obama election as being a major turn in the right direction for the country that can make or break the world financially and militarily, well, I tend to agree with that.

[HanneSThEGreaT]

To be honest, I think Morgan Tsvangirai deserved the prize much more than Barrack Obama.

I usually don't get involved with politics, but comparing these 2 on what the have done Should've been taken into consideration.

[nemaroller]

Clinton did get a piece prize.
If the rest of the world sees the very fact of the Obama election as being a major turn in the right direction for the country that can make or break the world financially and militarily, well, I tend to agree with that.

Oh hold up... you are in the US so you should be more aware of what is actually going on.

Barack is waging a war in Afghanistan (same as Bush).

Barack has agreed with spying on US communications. (same as Bush)
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/200...bama-sides-wit

Barack has kept open Guantanamo Bay (same as Bush). He blames Congress, but his own party is in majority power, so they are dragging their heels on purpose.

Barack has paid harsh words to Iran but conducted no military action (same as Bush).

Barack supported the bank bailout, and the auto bailout. (same as Bush).


So outside of the appearance of being more diplomatic to some foreign leaders, nothing has changed.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

Oh hold up... you are in the US so you should be more aware of what is actually going on.

Barack is waging a war in Afghanistan (same as Bush).

Mainly because he has no choice, now that they are there, pulling out without enabling the Afghan government to have the power to rule & not succumb to the Taliban would not be a good thing to do.

Barack has agreed with spying on US communications. (same as Bush)
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/200...bama-sides-wit

If that's the case then it's a pity as that legislation should never have been law in the first place.

Barack has kept open Guantanamo Bay (same as Bush). He blames Congress, but his own party is in majority power, so they are dragging their heels on purpose.

Actually the main problem here is what do they do with the prisoners after they close the place down. And to say that its just the Democrats dragging there heels is a bit of a simplistic view of this one. Obama would close it if he could but various legal & political issues have arisen which they have to deal with first. Saying that hopefully it will be closed soon though.

Barack has paid harsh words to Iran but conducted no military action (same as Bush).

Now that's rubbish Obama's position is completely different, Obama has actually come out and tried to talk to Iran, offered them talks with out pre-requisites (which Bush wouldn't do) and also has got Russia on his side and China Abstaining in the International negotiations so that they can actually carry out more sanctions on Iran (again something Bush never managed as Russia always Vetoed)

I actually think the most positive thing he has done internationality are his dealings with Iran. If you think that going to War is the answer your wrong it would be disastrous. Hopefully with Russia & the US an the same page on this they can actually sort out the Iran issue.

Barack supported the bank bailout, and the auto bailout. (same as Bush).

Again i don't see what the issue is here, he didn't exactly have much choice, events were already in motion. what you have prefer that he let the bank go to the wall ?

So outside of the appearance of being more diplomatic to some foreign leaders, nothing has changed.

Give the guy a chance, is it because some people seem to think he is some sort of saviour that you dislike him ?

I can understand being sceptical he has really done much yet, but he has been in office barely a year. Bush had 8 years to mess everything up !!!

The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is you inflicted George 'W' Bush on us all for 8 long years and basically he is not Bush !!!!

[nemaroller]

I was going to respond to your answers in turn, but the only point you disagreed with was his position on Iran. There isn't a big difference between Bush's policy and Barack's policy when it comes to Iran. The issue is still the same - and the resolution so far has been the same. Barack has done nothing but repeat the same demands Bush made.

Give the guy a chance, is it because some people seem to think he is some sort of saviour that you dislike him ?

I can understand being sceptical he has really done much yet, but he has been in office barely a year. Bush had 8 years to mess everything up !!!

The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is you inflicted George 'W' Bush on us all for 8 long years and basically he is not Bush !!!!

I voted for Gore, so I didn't inflict Bush upon you. I thought he was an incompetent speaker during the New Hampshire primaries - long before anyone paid attention to him.

However, before 9/11, all Bush did was pass some tax break legislation and then went on vacation. Bush's approval rating was average for any president - and skyrocketed past 80% after 9/11.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...gacy/timeline/

I can see that media reports have shaped your view of his presidency, and as you pointed out, Barack has done nothing notable as of yet.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Oh hold up... you are in the US so you should be more aware of what is actually going on.

I do live in the US, and am aware of what is going on. Interesting that I see it so differently.

Barack is waging a war in Afghanistan (same as Bush).

Not the same as Bush. Bush STARTED a war in Afghanistan that Obama has inherited. Does anybody seriously think that an abrupt withdrawal is in anyway beneficial to anybody other than the Taliban?

Barack has agreed with spying on US communications. (same as Bush)
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/200...bama-sides-wit

I doubt Sweden cares much, but I do. Once again, Bush instituted, and Obama inherited. Having said that, I seriously dislike Obama's position on this, as I disliked the Bush position. However, it is a VERY rare president who reduces any powers that were in place when they were elected. I'm not sure that it has ever happened, and that is not a good thing.

Barack has kept open Guantanamo Bay (same as Bush). He blames Congress, but his own party is in majority power, so they are dragging their heels on purpose.

Once again, Bush creates, Obama inherits. What alternative does he actually have? Congress is acting to forbid moving any of the inmates into the US, while Obama had to bribe a country to take some clearly innocent inmates (whom I can't spell, but you probably know who I'm talking about). We won't allow them into the US to try them, but nobody else will take them. It's a heck of a spot to be in.

As for Congress being controlled by Obama's party....well, that's technically true, as Obama is a Democrat and Congress is nominally controlled by Democrats, but that's about as far as it goes. The Dems won't vote as a block, so the majority mostly matters in being able to control the flow of debate, not the outcome.

Barack has paid harsh words to Iran but conducted no military action (same as Bush).

Bush was like a golfer with a full bag of clubs who always chose to use the pitching wedge, whether on the tee, in a trap, or on the green. Time after time he went for the stick when a carrot would have suited better. This can be seen in his loss of the senate in his first term, his treatment of North Korea (who are annoying gits, but they KNOW that the stick is nothing more than a bluff, so it gains nothing), and on and on. The difference with Obama is that he has made it clear that he is offering both the stick and the carrot, and doing so openly. That approach has a chance of working. Might fail, too.

Barack supported the bank bailout, and the auto bailout. (same as Bush).

So? Does that have anything to do with the Peace Prize, or are you just looking for similarities? If it is the latter, you might also mention that they are both educated, tall, and male. As for the bailouts, there were some details I disagreed with, but I generally agreed that something had to be done by both of them.

So outside of the appearance of being more diplomatic to some foreign leaders, nothing has changed.

The willingness to consider all possible tools is a welcome change.

[tome10]

Reagan: If freeing the whole Eastern Block is not Worthy. I don't know what is, and as a result of Spineless ' in the world we will never know peace.
Bush: If freeing millions from an Evil Dictator, "the type not seen since Hitler", Spreading Democracy to the Middle East, and freeing Women Oppression in Afghanistan is not Worthy. I don't know what is, and as a result of Spineless ' in the world we will never know peace.
Peace is not the Absence of Conflict, but the Presence of Justice.
Whoever that was that posted that the Israilis took the land from the Palestinians is a complete '.

What funny about this peace prize award is that it was awarded to an American and the only people complaining about it are Americans !

There was a new report on the other day where they were in various middle eastern countries and people were all fairly happy with the award going to Obama.

It seems your President is more liked and appreciated abroad then at home !

We like our Awards, and Country to mean something to be Valid Not Demeaned or Destroyed. To stand for something and we don't give a ' about what the ' think. This man is an Embarrassement to Harvard and the US.

[Valleysboy1978]

I wonder if the Iraqi people who have lost relatives due to Bush's actions would agree with you? I seriously doubt it. I hope Bush goes down as the true incompetent that he really is.

I for one don't agree Obama should have got the Peace Prize as he has, as of yet, not achieved any lasting peace. However that said I would agree that he is making good progress towards it.

[NeedSomeAnswers]

I can see that media reports have shaped your view of his presidency, and as you pointed out, Barack has done nothing notable as of yet.

No Media reports have had nothing to do with how i view Bush's presidency.

As a non-US citizen i would say the biggest issue with Bush is how he treated the rest of the world politically with contempt.

Obama has come in an actually tried to Engage with the rest of the world, and include them in negotiations.

Bush told people what he was going to do and you were either with him or against him, at times he seemed deliberately antagonistic.

What i was trying to do with my response is be balanced, Obama is not some Saviour as some people seem to believe but i agree with Shaggy, he has inherited a large number of issues from Bush, we need to give the guy more time before we judge him on his record.

I don't get those that automatically hate or dislike Obama any more than those who worship the guy.

[tome10]

I wonder if the Iraqi people who have lost relatives due to Bush's actions would agree with you? I seriously doubt it. I hope Bush goes down as the true incompetent that he really is.

And the relatives of the Millions buried in Mass graves? I ask your take on how they feel since you are so astute and in touch with the Iraqi Psyche.
Since we are peering into the Psyches of others I will make an observation of the Liberal Mind. It is only the casualties of a conflict that Brings Justice that is scorned. The Casualties of truly Evil people who ordain the absence of justice is left to their ways with not a bat of an Eye from the Liberal and therefore is his Enabler. That is the reason we will never have peace without real men who believe in the presence of Justice. Reagan-Thatcher, Bush-Blair.

As a non-US citizen i would say the biggest issue with Bush is how he treated the rest of the world politically with contempt.

More like how a Man treats a Child. Grow up the world is dangerous and you enablers aren't helping.

[System_Error]

I didn't realize you could win a Nobel Peace Prize for wishful thinking. Maybe Carter, Gore, and Arafat will throw down their Peace Prize in protest.


Seriously, this is even funnier than Bush jokes.

[DeanMc]

I didn't realize you could win a Nobel Peace Prize for wishful thinking. Maybe Carter, Gore, and Arafat will throw down their Peace Prize in protest.


Seriously, this is even funnier than Bush jokes.

Buuuuuuuuuurn!!!

[Shaggy Hiker]

And the relatives of the Millions buried in Mass graves? I ask your take on how they feel since you are so astute and in touch with the Iraqi Psyche.

I think you are confusing regimes. Saddam killed thousands (not counting the war with Iran), not millions. He's not the worst dictator since Hitler unless you are wanting to start a war with him. The Khmer Rouge were FAR worse, and even as we were attacking Iraq we were coddling a dictator who was as bad as Saddam. We needed the air base there for the Afghan war, so we demonized Saddam while turning a blind eye on a dictator who was jailing and killing his own people by the thousands. Of course, we turned a blind eye on Saddam when he was gassing his own people, too, because we needed him for other things.

It's situational rather than absolute, and it always has been.

Since we are peering into the Psyches of others I will make an observation of the Liberal Mind. It is only the casualties of a conflict that Brings Justice that is scorned. The Casualties of truly Evil people who ordain the absence of justice is left to their ways with not a bat of an Eye from the Liberal and therefore is his Enabler.

Nice rant. Totally disproved by even a casual reading of history, but a nice rant.