Maybe a bit of a big request but...

[Rayko]

I am looking for someone to help me get started on a project.
I have 2 years of VB.NET experience and it's one of my classes.

So, by the end of next year i need to develop an application of my choice, only requirements are that it shouldn't be too simple (it needs to be a real-life usable application with enough features to make it usable by for example a company)

another requirement is that it needs to use databases.

So, i have some ideas running through my head already here, some of which i have a knowledge on how to (atleast) get started on, and some of which i don't

my ideas would be the following:

- develop an application that runs on a server. perhaps with both lan for use inside company, AND TCP/IP connection for outside use to connect to the main server from home.

- give the ability to users to upload/download files to/from the server, and have a nice overview of the files that are on the server (when uploaded? by who? size? description?). Here is where the database part would come in.

- Give the ability to users to exchange messages through a private messaging system (messages will be stored in database for administrative purposes)

those are just a few ideas from the top of my head, i could perhaps add more, or change some stuff.

So for my request now: i would like, if possible, that i could perhaps add someone to msn or anything so i can have a bit more live help on this. I will not be on your neck all the time asking stuff, i just need a few tips and pushes in the right direction at times as i go on. Just either send me a PM or reply here if you'd like to help me out in this.

many, MANY thanks in advance to all of you!

[techgnome]

Actually, your best bet it to just post here... that way you're more likely to get more people looking at it, allowing for different opinions and different ideas. Granted it's probably not as instant as what you may be looking for, but in the long run, it might work out better.

Just be sure to follow these simple rules, and you're pretty much guaranteed to get help:
1) Post in the correct place. If it's VB code only, then post in the correct VB section. If it's related to database, post in the database (even if VB code is involved... if it becomes apparent that the code is the problem, and not the database, it can be moved.)

2) Try code yourself first... nothing annoys people faster here than some one looking for a hand out with out first trying it themselves. (I'm not saying that's what you'd do... but, I'm jsut saying)
3) Be clear on what the problem, is... post the relevant code. Tell us what happened, and what you expected.
4) Note that it is for an assignment - this may drive you nuts, but it's for your own good - it's going to mean that you may get some vague posts, and posts that will (hopefully) nudge you in the right direction, rather than just giving you code (some will just post the code and skip the research phase). The general belief around here is "Give a user code, he'll copy/paste. Give him research and he'll code for life."

-tg

[Rayko]

i totally agree with you on all that, especially the last argument! (i learnt that from experience myself)

though what i am basicly stuck at now is that i could very much use some help in getting this project started in the first place. there's so much new stuff that i'll have to learn to get this going, and i'd hate to have to start all over again after a few months, or weeks or days for all that matters.

thanks a lot again all! ;-)

[si_the_geek]

In that case I recommend taking a look at the relevant articles in our Database Development FAQs/Tutorials (at the top of the Database Development forum), particularly the "Design" section to start with - because making design changes later will virtually guarantee a re-write of some sort.

[techgnome]

Agreed. I usually start by writting down all of the data I want to track, then I organize it into groups of similar data, then look to see how they all relate to each other. From there, I start writing out the tables, and what each one is going to hold. Then and only then do I actually start building the tables. Even then, I'll come up with something to add.. or take out... and I make the appropriate adjustments.

-tg

[Rayko]

Thank you, it'll make a good read, however i am already quite proficient in database design.

What i think i need help with to get me started is someone to help me with the architecture of the application, since this is my first time making a somewhat bigger, multipurpose application. I am quite sure i'll just end up having to trash all my existing code if i start off on the wrong foot here.

though thank you a lot for that link, i put it in my bookmarks, it looks extremely useful for when i'll actually get to the database part haha :-)

[techgnome]

theres two schools of thought - bottom up - start with the classes needed to access the database then work your way up to the UI last.... or top-down... start with teh UI and work back down to the data....

since it sounds like a utilitarian type of application, form follows function, so I'd take a bottom-up approach.

-tg

[Rayko]

so what would you advise me then to do?

first work on stuff like client/server connection, adding data to databases, and so forth, and then put it all together and adapt the smaller parts to sum up in one big application?

also, for this type of applications, what type of database would you suggest?

[TheUsed]

Access database will be just fine if all your doing is storing messages for admin purposes. I can see more uses for the Database though. You need to find out who added what files to the server/time description.

You will have to set permissions for the access to the server. So that means storing usernames and passwords and permission levels.

Access will work for this, it's simple enough to set up.

I would recommend drawing your application design.

What it will look like, what actions cause what to happen.

IE you press a button, draw what needs to happen next.

I kinda look at it like if you are designing a web page. You will want to sketch the website first by keeping a main look throughout all the websites sub pages. and showing what link shows what sub page. Keep that same design to the application.

I would then in your own way, write on paper what the program needs to do.

IE you have a form and on the form load it needs to do this and this.
You can try hand coding it or just basically sum up what it does. Think of all the areas of flaw in that design and figure out how to make it better.

This is all good because when you start to actually DESIGN and CODE your application. You wont have as much to change while your coding. If you do have to make changes, it wont be as bad as you would if your coding on the fly and designing on the fly.

[Rayko]

okay, i am getting pretty stuck at even thinking out the architecture of the application.

I don't mean to beg here or anything but, i would really appreciate just to have a chat with someone here over msn perhaps or any other IM to get me on the right track.

I keep having to start all over re-thinking this because i keep running into a problem of some kind and i just have too many of those small questions to keep on clogging this thread with.

please people, i promise i won't be a big bother to you and this assignment will determine if i pass the coming schoolyear or not.

thanks a lot in advance all!

[wild_bill]

Can you use Linq to SQL? I just created a small application using Linq to SQL, it works pretty slick. For a free database, I would use sql server express.

[Rayko]

yes but right now, i'm not even remotely close to even having to think about what database to set up, i can't even get started on my application right now.

i'm completely stuck here i'm afraid.

[VBDT]

The first thing I would do is to decide what kind of objects I am going to have. Start creating the objects (classes) with its properties and methods. The project should be Object Oriented so that the code will not repeat in many places. OOP is the way to go if you don’t want to get lost in the code. Otherwise you will go back and forth correcting the code and so on.

[TheUsed]

Can you use Linq to SQL? I just created a small application using Linq to SQL, it works pretty slick. For a free database, I would use sql server express.

Why would you prefer SQL express, when Access has all the abilities to handle this type of application?

I have no objection to using SQL just, it'd be something that would have to be installed on the server. And then ran as a service.

Access can just be used directly without services

[techgnome]

Because SQL Server (express and full) work better in a client/server environment, especially under heavy loads and multiple users. I'm not saying Access can't handle it, but that SQL Server will be more stable and scale better if loads increase.

-tg